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Pre-PT era lore | an OT & EU scrapbook resource | additional info & sources welcome

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Introduction

 

x

Obi Wan Kenobi explains the Force to Luke’ - a 3+ minute Dailymotion video by oojason (using Harmy’s Despecialized Edition).
 

^ The scene that caught so many of our imaginations. The scene that not only explained the Force, but the main characters’ backstory, the history and context of the setting, and the characters within being asked to answer the call to adventure. The scene that left us wanting to know so much more about this mysterious and compelling universe, and what had come before…

Despite George understandably making the Prequel era “off limits” to other writers and creatives before the PT films were released, we were given some snippets and answers on this era through officially released material. Content such as the early Star Wars novels, OT film novelisations, draft scripts, the EU; novels, comics, and video games (notably Veitch & Zahn’s work). The guidebooks, WEG sourcebooks, ‘Art Of’ books etc, trading cards, CD-ROMs, radio plays, and any other licensed material… Although the release of the PT would see much of this “pre-Prequel era life & lore” change, retconned, or simply be discarded.

 

This is a thread attempting to chronicle that pre-Prequel era lore and history from official Lucasfilm material & products.
 

From a time when Jedi had attachments; marriage, relationships, and children. Even different coloured lightsabers - including red! The Force being an energy field. No ill-explained midichlorians or vague ‘Chosen One’ prophecies. Palpatine wasn’t a Sith, nor yet a force user, and didn’t take control of the Republic until years after the Clone Wars ended. Vader was the Sith supremo. The Clone Wars were fought by the Republic & Jedi against the Mandalorians, geneticists & cloners from the “dark worlds”…

Any help with this incomplete scrapbook is very much appreciated. Anyone is welcome and encouraged to post up any pre-Prequel era content or subject matter; articles, videos, screenshots, images, interviews, or links to books, comics & games (with sources or citations) to be added to the index categories in here.

x

Please post any fond memories based on material from the pre-Prequel era too. Hopefully this will grow into a useful resource.

 

I loved the pre-Prequel era of Star Wars; the OT and EU lore associated with it. It was a great time, a fun era. For some it was a part of our childhood or adolescence. For others it fired the imagination, expectations, and hopes. The PT itself turning out to be so disappointing for many, doesn’t take any of that away or diminish that pre-Prequel era lore - nor does George, Lucasfilm, or GL-zealots & PT defenders edicts & decrees on ‘canon’, ‘GL’s vision’, or that ‘Star Wars is his - he can do whatever he wants’.

Those are some of the oft-used excuses for ‘justifying’ the retconning and deletion of pre-PT era lore material from official sources by The Keepers of The Holocron - in attempting to reconcile any such continuity issues. (and who do put much inventive work into that, ranging from clever & imaginative, through to feats of mental gymnastics.) Yet in removing the original content, and no longer acknowledging it, early Star Wars history becomes obfuscated over time… an all-too familiar occurrence in the GFFA.

This thread is just simply an attempt to highlight that road not fully travelled. It was that road for some 20+ years, but then it forked off. So this is more of a ‘what was’, ‘what if’, a ‘what could have been’, or ‘what was going to be’; instead of what we eventually got with the disparate Prequels films, and the retconned lore & history that came with it; at that time, and since…
 

A Thread Index:

Introduction (this post)
A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Miscellaneous
Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
Credits

 


 

A few OT threads that feature some comprehensive information on the more widely known facets of Pre-Prequel era lore:

  1. Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels
  2. Putting The Original-Original Trilogy’s Prequel Story together
  3. The Prequels as Envisioned by the (Pre-PT) Expanded Universe
  4. What if The Prequels were based on the Pre-PT EU and were more “OT Accurate”
  5. Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue (+ character ages + when certain events take place)
  6. What did you think the Clone Wars were gonna be?
  7. The Jedi Purge | a general discussion
  8. Were the Jedi supposed to not be allowed to get married, have children or any possessions when the OT was made?
  9. On Jedi and Attachment
  10. At what point did Tatooine robes become Jedi uniforms?
  11. OT lightsaber colours; (and some waffling on about the various colours used across the OT & Expanded Universe)
  12. Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the Prequels? Or was it added later in the EU?
  13. What Luke’s father and Darth Vader would have been like had Lucas kept them as separate characters?
  14. Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… (a ‘50+ issues’ list)

 
• Some OT film drafts and character threads for the OT era can be found in An Index for Original Trilogy Discussion

• Some EU material covering the Pre-Prequel era (before the PT films) can be found in An Index for the Expanded Universe
 

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

A quick note on ‘canon’ (yep, I know)…

 

Yep, I’d skip past this category as well. If you know of the various canon introductions & rules, skip ahead to the next category.

But if you do read this category… you’ll see the links to a top collection of ‘Star Wars Insiders’ and ‘Lucasfilm Fan Club Magazines’!

 
 

Lucas Licensing’s Allan Kausch & Sue Rostoni on the relationship between Lucas’ creations and other creatives’ work (in 1994):

“Gospel, or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelizations. These works spin out of George Lucas’ original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we’ve read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history—with many off-shoots, variations and tangents—like any other well-developed mythology.”

 
^ from the “Star Wars Publications Timeline: Q & A”. Star Wars Insider #23 - Page 18 (1994). Available at the Archive link below:

https://archive.org/details/starwarsinsider_1_to_153_plus_specials/Star Wars Insider 023 (1994)

^ as well as the first 153 issues of ‘Star Wars Insider’ - and a number of ‘Official Lucasfilm Fan Club Magazines’ too.👍

 

Lucasfilm’s own 5-Tier Canon Ratings (prior to the infamous Lucasfilm canon reconstruction in April 2014):-

 
Regarding the Holocron Database created in early 2000 mentioned below, Leland Chee (Keeper of the Holocron) said in 2012:

“What sets Star Wars apart from other franchises is that we develop a singular continuity across all forms of media, whether it be the films, TV series, video games, novels and comics, and the Holocron is a key component to Lucasfilm being able to do this.” The Holocron was divided into five levels of canon (in order of precedence)."

^ from the ‘SWCVI: The Holocron Keeper at Celebration’ 2012 article at the official Star Wars website.

Holocron Continuity Database wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Holocron_continuity_database

 

 
^ from see the Holocron database and canonicity section at Wikipedia.

 
 

Lucafilm’s 2014 announcement on “Legends & Canon”: “Star Wars entertainment and storytelling is set for a bold new direction”.

The Legendary Star Wars Expanded Universe Turns a New Page - article on StarWars•com on April 25, 2014.

“For over 35 years, the Expanded Universe has enriched the Star Wars experience for fans seeking to continue the adventure beyond what is seen on the screen. When he created Star Wars, George Lucas built a universe that sparked the imagination, and inspired others to create. He opened up that universe to be a creative space for other people to tell their own tales. This became the Expanded Universe, or EU, of comics, novels, videogames, and more.”

 
 

An example of George dismissing the lore and history from other creatives’ work on previous official Star Wars material:

x

(“made up by fans or somebody”? Checks notes: Tom Veitch, EU architect. As it didn’t fit Lucas’ own retconned lore years written later)

^ from the “All Films Are Personal”: An Oral History of Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace 2019 article on the Star Wars website

 

Yet George & Lucasfilm were happy for fans to believe that had actually occurred for many years. That and much, much more.

Material mentioned previously in the post above: such as in the early Star Wars novels, OT film novelisations, draft scripts, the EU; novels, comics, and video games (notably Veitch & Zahn’s work). The guidebooks, WEG sourcebooks, ‘Art Of’ books etc, trading cards, the CD-ROMs, kids & YA books, and a range of other licensed merchandise… Although the release of the Prequel films would see much of the previously established “pre-Prequel era life & lore” change, retconned, or simply be discarded.

[* Sarcasm mode on *]
If only George actually had those PT-era events all planned out beforehand - as part of an overall ‘master plan’ for Star Wars. He could have then easily issued cursory guidelines for Lucasfilm to follow a cohesive story and lore when releasing such content & merchandise over those 20-30 years. Instead of approving and releasing so much ‘incorrect’ info in official material… and having to retcon all of those stories & events “that never happened”… for the new & changed lore introduced in the PT films.
[* Sarcasm mode off *]
 

Fans’ money, time, imagination, our fervour for the Star Wars universe, us wanting to learn so much more on the events from and around the OT era, remains. It is not simply turned off or diminished because George belatedly claims of “no, that didn’t happen, this happened instead” years after the fact. As soon as George and Lucasfilm released all that official pre-Prequel material to the public it became ours: the fans’. To take in absorb, to cherish, love, interpret, to play with, to invent our own stories on, using our own imaginations to fill in the gaps. All of which were a large part of our love for Star Wars at that time.

So for those who wish to be beholden to ‘George’s vision’ or Lucasfilm’s current ‘canon’… cool. Yet for fans with an interest in the early history of the GFFA, and those of us who were there at the time, experienced and lived it, bought the t-shirt (+ all the other material & merch along with it)… the pre-PT era lore still has much merit. After all, on this site, many do not agree with ‘George’s vision’, attempts at re-writing SW history, nor the revisionism and retcons - yet that’s probably no bad thing at all

When it comes to lore & history throughout Star Wars… George & Lucasfilm certainly have been consistently inconsistent! 😃

It is no wonder ‘head-canon’ or ‘personal canon’ etc became “a thing” - and has seemingly become more prominent over time.

 
 


 

A Thread Index:

Introduction
A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Miscellaneous
Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
Credits
 

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Timelines: Story Events and Alterations

 

Index of Timelines in this post:

  1. The Clone Wars; a brief overview on the pre-PT era
  2. The Clone Wars; a couple of pre-PT era ‘overview’ type videos from Corey’s Datapad & Geetsly’s
  3. The time period before 1999 (2021) - video from Spector Creative
  4. “Time Line Of Important Events In The Star Wars Galaxy” (1994) ‘A Guide to the Star Wars Universe’ book
  5. “1994 LucasArts Star Wars Screen Entertainment CD-ROM” + George Lucas quotes on when the Prequels would be set
  6. “Important Events In The History Of Star Wars” - Official Star Wars Souvenir Annual 1998 - a timeline
  7. “Star Wars Timeline from 1997”, for the ‘Dark Force Rising’ comics
  8. “Star Wars Timeline” (1994) - Star Wars Insider #23
  9. “The Star Wars Timeline Gold” (2018) - by Nathan P Butler
  10. “A complete Star Wars Legends Timeline” (2021) - novels, comics, and games
  11. Another quality resource website: www.starwarstimeline•net
  12. A Current Canon Timeline (2023) - in both video and infographic form (for comparison / sake of completion)
     

^ If anyone knows of any other relevant Timelines, dates of note, or calendars etc for the pre-Prequel era, please post them up.
 
 

a quick note:

Whilst searching for content on the pre-PT era a number of YouTubers, article journalists, and some Prequel fans online appear to claim original and early EU writers “got it wrong”, “got a lot wrong” or “got so much wrong”, when discussing pre-PT era lore. Along with some negative judgments or placing reduced value on those works… simply because timelines and events are different - or claims that pre-PT era material is somehow “lesser” for it - because it does not fit with “George’s vision”.

As confirmed by EU creatives from the time, it was Lucasfilm themselves who provided the earlier original timeline of the Clone Wars (circa 35BBY). George then shaving 10-20 years off the timeline years later, making Anakin and Obi-Wan 10-20 years younger than originally supposed to be, for the PT films. Any “fault” or issue is with George & Lucasfilm for those alterations, leading to such dissonance with the previously established timeline, stories and characters, in their officially released material.

 

In an interview with early EU architect and writer Timothy Zahn, in February of 2000, with TFn’s Chris Knight:

“The two guidelines I was given at the beginning were: I was to start three to five years after ROTJ, and I could use any character who had not been killed off in the movies. It was very, very open. When I submitted the outline, we found a few other walls: I could not do detailed references to the Clone Wars era. I had a sort of history of the Clone Wars set up because at that time I didn’t know he (George Lucas) was going to go back and do more movies, so I thought that was opened at length as well, but it turned out it wasn’t. Various other things: Joruus C’baoth was originally an insane clone of Obi-Wan Kenobi and they wouldn’t let me do that. And I would run into minor walls here and there, both in the outline and in the final manuscript. But it was more a matter of, instead of getting what I had to do, they would let me do what I wanted unless it ran into some territory they didn’t want me dealing with, or contradicted something that they saw in the movies, though I could sometimes argue my way out of those.”

and

They would not give me a Clone Wars date until I was mostly done with book two (“Dark Force Rising”; released in 1992). The first book was already at the printers and they actually moved it back about fifteen years earlier than I had set it. As a result, the various numbers don’t add up. When it talks about Pellaeon’s age, they don’t add up because there’s this fifteen-year difference. They might have actually set it back a bit further when they set on “The Phantom Menace”. So the timeline doesn’t quite match, but nothing else I think finally contradicts what I’ve done.”

 
^ a screenshot of the above sections of the 2000 interview with Timothy Zahn:

 
 


 
 

Enough of the jibba-jabba! Get on with it!

 

 
 


 

1. The Clone Wars; a brief overview on the ‘pre-PT era’:

 

The Old Republic was a Republic of Legend - greater than distance or time. For a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the Dark Times, before the Prequels Empire.

Despite the PT-era being “off limits” to writers and creatives for many years before the release of the Prequel Trilogy films, a number of intriguing and captivating references appeared in official Lucasfilm material over the years referencing the era, adding more brush strokes to an already alluring portrait for what was the Clone Wars. As well as the years-later Jedi Purge, overseen by the Dark Lord of The Sith, himself once a Jedi, named Darth Vader…
 

 

The following abridged OP/Ed describes all this far better than I ever could - also paying homage to some of those early EU creatives:
 

[Op/Ed] ‘The Prequel Era Before the Prequel Trilogy’ - at https://starwars.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000003637541

 
"Although we never get a complete picture of what the Clone Wars were like, Timothy Zahn suggested in his Thrawn Trilogy that it was a war between the Jedi and a group only referred to as the clonemasters, who used Spaarti cloning cylinders to produce an army of clones to fight against the Republic, much like Thrawn’s clone army in The Last Command. It even resulted in some cloned Jedi like Joruus C’baoth, who turned out to be quite mad.

The original Clone Wars were suggested to have ended before the fall of the Jedi, about when Obi-Wan defeated geneticist Atha Prime, the “ruler of the dark worlds,” who was described as the architect of the war. However, the idea of Palpatine, a senator, seizing power and luring Anakin to the dark side and the Empire was established by then, as was Obi-Wan’s epic duel with Anakin.

As for the battle droids we’re used to seeing nowadays, Kathy Tyers’ Truce at Bakura novel featured the Ssi-ruuvi Imperium, a group of aliens who Emperor Palpatine sought to contact out of interest in their droid army, which the book mentions was something Palpatine never encountered before.

(As a fun aside, Kevin J. Anderson’s Jedi Academy Trilogy introduced an Imperial Remnant using MT-ATs, spider-like walkers that looked something like what the Separatists or Umbarans would’ve used during the Clone Wars).

Boba Fett was different, too. The Dark Empire comics revealed that Fett was an ex-Stormtrooper who left the Empire but came to an “understanding” with Darth Vader so he wouldn’t be held accountable.

Obviously, all this changed once the prequel trilogy came out, the biggest difference being that the Clone Wars turned out to be fought between a Republic clone army and a Separatist droid army. Boba Fett wasn’t a stormtrooper but the clone of Jango Fett, who served as the template for the Kaminoans (the “clonemasters” as it were). And Anakin, Padmé, and Obi-Wan are much different than what those two images suggest.

Of course, Lucas did include some stuff from what the early EU established, such as Coruscant being the capital of the Republic. He even lifted the idea that Jedi could block Force lightning with their lightsaber AOTC from Dark Force Rising.

I bring all this up because it’s super fascinating to me. I salute those writers who were brave enough to throw out some ideas about what things were like “before the Dark Times,” and I like how the information was doled out sparingly and vaguely. The prequel era was kept a mystery, which is kind of a novel thought given how saturated the era is nowadays.

If there’s any older fans out there who remember this time before the prequels, I’m curious if you could attest to what it was like during this time? Was the speculation more or less what the EU writers were hinting at? How shocking was it when these changes were made?

If you can’t remember a time without the prequel trilogy, what do you think of these original details? Do you prefer what the prequels established over these older ideas?"
 

^ by Mando With No Name: 31/07/22. Full version (with images): https://starwars.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000003637541

 
 


 

2. The Clone Wars - an overview of the Timeline:

 

The Original Clone Wars - Clone Assault on the Republic! | SW Legends Lore - 13 minute video from Corey’s Datapad (2019)

Video Description: ‘The Prequels really fleshed out the Clone Wars, but what did people think the Clone Wars were before that?’

 

Some more on The Clone Wars Timeline:

 

What the Clone Wars was Originally SUPPOSED To Look Like - 9 minute video from Geetsly’s (2021)

Video Description: “You fought in the Clone Wars?”

 
 

The Original Clone Wars Were Way Different - a 12 minute vidoe from Corey’s Datapad (2024)

Video Description: ‘When the Prequels came around, the Clone Wars had been off limits for the Expanded Universe for a while to tell stories in directly, but that hadn’t stopped a lot of background lore from being built up. This caused a few problems with recollections about who was fighting whom, and even when exactly the wars were.’
 

^ An otherwise good video providing a lot of information and insight. Although it does not feature details provided by the official Sourcebooks, Technical Journals, and Guides available at the time. It also doesn’t cover Lucasfilm informing authors of a different timeline (and other details) to that actually used by George years later for his PT films.

 
 


 

3. The time period before 1999:

 

What it was like growing up before the STAR WARS Prequels; when getting Episode One was just a dream - 11 minute video from Spector Creative (2021)

Video Description: ‘Scott Toy Guru Neitlich from Spector Creative talks about what it was like growing up before there were more Star Wars movies and all of the bread crumbs in the Original Trilogy that hinted at what the Prequels could have been like…’

 
 


 

4. “A Guide to the Star Wars Universe, Second Edition, Revised and Expanded” book (1994):

 

 

^ A screenshot compilation of ‘A Timeline Of Important Events In The Star Wars Galaxy’ section of ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994), by Bill Slavicsek:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

 
 


 

5. ‘1994 LucasArts Star Wars Screen Entertainment CD-ROM’ - with quotes from George:

 

George Lucas himself stated in the ‘1994 LucasArts Star Wars Screen Entertainment CD-ROM’ Screensaver:

“The STAR WARS saga actually begins 40 years before Luke has the pivotal meeting with Obi Wan that sends him down the path to his destiny. The first three episodes begin with the friendship of a young Ben Kenobi and Luke’s father, Anakin Skywalker.”

 

^ a screenshot of the above ‘1994 LucasArts Star Wars Screen Entertainment CD-ROM’ - with George Lucas’ quotes:
 

 
^ from ‘FWS Topics: The Lost Star Wars Prequels’ article at the Future War Stories blog; in ‘The Crawl from the 1994 LucasArts Star Wars Screen Entertainment CD-ROM’ category; a quality article & resource that also features a chronology of GFFA history.

 
 


 

6 . ‘Important Events In The History Of Star Wars’ - a Timeline:

from the ‘Official Star Wars Souvenir Annual 1998’

 
There were 17 years between the end of Clone Wars and Anakin becoming Darth Vader:
 

 
^ (written here below too, as the dark text on dark background in the images above can be difficult to read):
 

35 BSW4:

“End of the Clone Wars, a violent conflict in which the Jedi Knights fight to defend the Old Republic. Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker emerge as heroes.”

29 BSW4:

“Fall of the Republic. A dark period when corruption and injustice sweep through the Republic. Senator Palpatine rises to power.”

^ It’s also noted as the date of birth for Han Solo.

18 BSW4:

“Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader; the Empire is formed, with Palpatine as Emperor. The first stirrings of rebellion begin.”

^ it also notes that the birth of Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa are in this year (18 BSW4).

(BSW4 = ‘Before Star Wars Episode IV’ / Battle Of Yavin)

 
 


 

7. “Star Wars Timeline from 1994” - from Star Wars Insider #23:

 

 

“Star Wars Timeline from 1994”, from Star Wars Insider #23:
 

 
 


 

8. “Star Wars Timeline from 1997” - for the ‘Dark Force Rising’ comics:

 

wookieepedia page for ‘Dark Force Rising’ (comics): https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Force_Rising_(comics)

 
 


 

9. The Star Wars Timeline Gold - by Nathan P Butler:

 

https://starwarsfanworks.com/timeline

 

The Star Wars Timeline Gold by Nathan P Butler: 5 downloadable pdf files covering different aspects of the Star Wars Timeline

https://starwarsfanworks.com/timeline (final edition was in 2018)
 

  1. Story Group Canon Timeline
  2. Legends Timeline, Vol. 1 (Pre-ANH, Minus Clone Wars)
  3. Legends Timeline, Vol. 2 (ANH and Beyond)
  4. Legends Clone Wars Supplement
  5. Appendices

^ The Legends Timeline Vol. 2 is relevant here; there are 426 pages of the Timeline just to get to 100BBY. Comprehensive.

 
 


 

10. A complete Star Wars Legends Timeline : novels, comics, and games:

(click on the imgur link to enlarge further)
 

^ from www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/srpc8d/just_found_this_complete_star_wars_legends

 
 


 

11. Another quality resource website: www.StarWarsTimeline•net

 

A very useful and interesting resource website, especially for pre-PT lore era:

^ www.starwarstimeline.net - by Joe Bongiorno
 

A category on the West End Games section of the above website, on the awesome WEG Sourcebooks and Supplements:

www.starwarstimeline.net/Westendgames.htm

 
 


 
 

And for comparison / sake of completion; the current Canon Timeline - in video and infographic format:
 

12. A Star Wars: The Complete Canon Timeline (2023)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvL68ZwWIHQ - a 98 minute youtube video, by Star Wars Explained.
 

^ The blurb: ‘This is the entire history of the Star Wars canon as of May 4, 2023. The Star Wars films, TV shows, books, comics, video games, and more all summarized into the most important moments in galactic history!’

0:00 - Early History
6:54 - The High Republic
16:34 - Fall of the Jedi
24:34 - The Clone Wars
37:20 - Reign of the Empire
57:10 - Age of Rebellion
1:15:21 - The New Republic
1:24:04 - Rise of the First Order
1:34:02 - Frequently Asked Questions

 
 

wookiepedia page for The Clone Wars (canon; 22-19 BBY): https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Clone_Wars

 
 

Star Wars Canon Timeline (as of September 2023) by Abraham2204, on DeviantArt’ (a useful Canon infographic):
 

 
^ www.deviantart.com/abraham2204/art/Star-Wars-Canon-Timeline-As-of-September-2023-922827271 (click on image to enlarge)

 
 


 

 




 

A Thread Index:

Introduction
A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Miscellaneous
Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
Credits
 

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments

 

An Index of content for this post:

  1. The first Prequel era story (from 1979, with Obi Wan Kenobi)
  2. Coruscant / Had Abbadon
  3. The Clone Wars being Jedi vs Mandalorians - and more (‘The Star Wars Trilogy Scrapbook: The Galactic Empire’ - 1997)
  4. Mandalore
  5. The Sith
  6. The Dark Worlds
  7. The Republic
  8. The Empire (the birth of the Empire + how they came about and their rise to power)
  9. The Rebellion (early protests and organisations against the Empire, Palpatine and their backers + enablers)
  10. “A Call To Reason” - The Farlander Papers : The Rebellion attempting to recruit to its ranks (1993 X-Wing game)
  11. “A Call To Reason” - The Farlander Papers : some pages from Mon Mothma’s manifesto (1993 X-Wing game)
     

^ If anyone knows of any other relevant info on ‘Settings, Planets & Systems’ etc for the pre-Prequel era, please post them up.

 
 


 

1. The first Prequel era story (from 1979)

 

The FIRST Star Wars Prequel-Era Story - 3+ minute video from Star Wars Explained (2021)

Video Description: ‘Today we’re jumping back to 1979 and the very first story told that took place in the prequel era of Star Wars. A tale all about Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars issue 24, back when the writers and artists had no idea what that period of time would look like.’
 

more on the Star Wars #24 comic (aka ‘Silent Drifting’):

 

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_(1977)_24
 

Plot Summary:

'After Han Solo skillfully pilots the Millennium Falcon to destroy two TIE fighters, Princess Leia mentions that Jedi pilots developed that same maneuver. She recounts one particular event involving Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Kenobi, traveling as a passenger on a pleasure cruiser, is notified by Captain Quasar that Merson pirates have been spotted in the Merson asteroid belt. The attacking ships are quickly destroyed, but Obi-Wan suspects the Mersons to have been lured by a signal from within the cruiser. The other passengers immediately accuse Augustus Tryll, a known criminal, of working with the Mersons, but Kenobi is not as quick to judge without proof.’
 

Continuity

'The framing story takes place after the events of Star Wars (1977) 15, according to the notation on the first page. Aside from the first four pages and the last half page, the entire story in this issue is a flashback to a time when Obi-Wan Kenobi was an active Jedi Knight in the Galactic Republic. This is the first published story to take place in the Galactic Republic era.

One of the letters in this issue’s letters page criticizes the comic series for making Luke and Leia “… act more like young brother and sister than sweethearts.” Although the creators of the book didn’t know this at the time, four years later Return of the Jedi would reveal that they were indeed siblings.’

 
 


 

2. Coruscant / Had Abbadon

 

Coruscant’s backstory BEFORE THE PREQUELS! - 8 minute video from EckhartsLadder (2020)

Video Description: ‘We cover the fascinating backstory of Coruscant from before the Star Wars Prequels released on today’s Star Wars Legends lore video!’

 

wookieepedia page for Coruscant: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Coruscant/Legends

wookieepedia page for Had Abbadon: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Had_Abbadon/Legends (original name of the Capital)

 

^ Early concept art for Had Abbadon with two orbiting Death Stars by Ralph McQuarrie (+ ROTJ early story ideas)

 
 


 

3. The Clone Wars being Jedi vs Mandalorians

and the Emperor taking over the Republic years after the end of the Clone Wars

 

 
^ a screenshot from the 1997 ‘The Star Wars Trilogy Scrapbook: The Galactic Empire’:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Trilogy_Scrapbook:_The_Galactic_Empire

 
 


 

4. Mandalore

 
Battle for Mandalore” - 1992 story by Chris Hind:

"Ten soldiers wearing the distinctive gray uniforms of the Republican Army and a half-dozen black-clad Jedi Knights advance cautiously through the deserted, rubble-choked streets of Mandalore. Black smoke hangs heavily in the air. Army Lieutenant Weirs matches strides with Voli Quana, Jedi mistress.

‘Your soldiers fight with remarkable order,’ Quana says, ‘even in these chaotic conditions.’
‘The troops are obeying orders which I haven’t even given yet,’ Weirs responds, ‘It’s you, isn’t it? Doing something to their minds–to all our minds–to keep us disciplined and in high morale. That’s why you look so haggard.’
‘The governor is still in the city,’ Quana says, ‘but he is preparing to escape in a private spacecraft. He must be tried for crimes against the Republic. I am telepathically relaying all your orders so we may reach him in time. And do not concern yourself with my health, for my ally is the Fo…’ Quana stops, covering her eyes with a hand.
‘What’s wrong?’ Weirs asks.
‘Halt your troops Lieutenant. I sense…’

Suddenly a loud blast and the flash of a bright blue beam. An ambush! Weirs’ chest explodes, and his body spins into an alley. Quana’s amber-bladed lightsaber is in her hand, ignited, in time to deflect a second blast aimed at her. In the next second, dozens of blue and red blaster bolts intersect the smoky streets, ionizing the air and sending chunks of formex flying with each near miss. The FINAL BATTLE FOR MANDALORE BEGINS!"

^ from Challenge Magazine #58, Page 68.
 

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_for_Mandalore

 
 


 

5. The Sith

 

The only living Sith at this pre-PT era was Darth Vader himself - “The Dark Lord of The Sith”.

^ see the ‘Anakin / Darth Vader’ section of ‘Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies

 

For more on The Sith (and Jedi) ‘origin’ type stories, the ‘Tales Of The Jedi’ comics (1993-98) are a most useful resource:-

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Tales_of_the_Jedi_(comic_series)

OriginalTrilogy•com thread for the TOTJ comics: Tales Of The Jedi | 1993-1998 comic book series | a general discussion thread
 

More information on The Sith (and Jedi) stories can be found in the ‘Dark Empire’ comics (1991-95):-

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Dark_Empire_Trilogy (especially “Empire’s End”)

OriginalTrilogy•com thread for the DE comics: Dark Empire trilogy | 1991-1995 EU comic series | a general discussion thread

 
 

^ 1978 General Mills Star Wars #15 Darth Vader collectible card - at the TCDB•com database

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Customizable_Card_Game

 
 

Superweapon VII said:

Vladius said:

I do think Palpatine was intended to be a Sith, though. Once the Sith and the concept of Sith Lords existed, I’m fairly certain that Vader and Palpatine were integrated into it.

Little doubt this is what Lucas intended, but it’s a factoid he apparently kept close to his chest, because Palpatine wasn’t characterized as a Sith in the pre-1999 EU. Darth Vader was characterized as THE Dark Lord of the Sith during the time of the Empire, and as per Tales of the Jedi, only the reigning Sith lord held the “Dark Lord” title. And Empire’s End excluded Palpatine from the Sith hierarchy.


The Sith spirits were gracious enough to make Palpatine an honorary Dark Lord in lieu of Vader, but that Vader had a throne set up for him in their mausoleum while Palpatine didn’t speaks volumes.

 

^ All credit and thanks to Superweapon VII for the above post, and also this below:

 

In the Inquest gaming magazine, issue 43 (November 1998), there is a reference to official Star Wars CCG, and a new ‘Dark Side’ variant game to play, along with some backstory of other Sith being in opposition to Dark Vader.

The magazine can be read here: the article is titled “The Sith Element - A Third Darker Side Invades The CCG”, on Pages 52-57 of the magazine itself (and Pages 54-58 of the archive link below):

https://archive.org/details/IQ.Gamer.Partial.Collection/inquest.043.(1998-11)/mode/1up?view=theater
 

some screenshots:

 
^ wookieepedia page for Bataal Bandu: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Bataal_Bandu

 
 

In the 1976 novelization of Star Wars (1977), Darth Vader is described as being a Sith on a number of occasions:

 
Yet Palpatine in the Prologue in the 1976 Star Wars novelization, is described as being a weak and manipulated politician; “controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office”. Far from the powerful force-using, cunning and manipulative individual seen in the later two Original Trilogy films.

Also, Palpatine was not mentioned as being a Sith in the films - or any other official Lucasfilm material - until 2000 (see the ‘Palpatine’ section in the ‘Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies’ category).

^ wookieepedia page Star Wars novelization: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_A_New_Hope_(novelization)

 
 


 

6. The Dark Worlds

 

The Dark Worlds were the antagonists of the Clone Wars and seemed to be a Confederacy of Clone Masters, geneticists, Bpfasshi Dark Jedi, and Mandalorians - led by the most powerful clone master named Atha Prime (see the ‘Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies’ category).

 

‘The so-called “Dark Worlds” was an Unknown Regions principality, located at the furthest reaches of the galaxy, which the genetic terrorist Zeta Magnus had claimed as his personal kingdom. Magnus carved out his kingdom using the followers and slaves he had gathered during his journey around the galaxy. It was composed of a group of planets ruled by Magnus, who considered the Chiss Ascendancy, the Ssi-ruuvi Imperium, the Vagaari, an Ebruchi clan, and the Rhandite nihilists as his neighbours. The terrorist’s seat of power was the Rennek palace, deep within the “Dark Worlds.” At some point in time before the Clone Wars, the Rhandite nihilists would “bless” these worlds.’

^ from The Dark Worlds wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Worlds

 

The Confederacy of Dark Worlds required large numbers of clone warriors to fight the Jedi and Republic, but these clones were grown too quickly by the impatient Clonemasters in Spaarti Cloning Cylinders - many started to show signs of going insane. This was something the Clonemasters had great difficulty controlling, but soon learnt that their insane clones could still ravage the Republic when dropped deep behind Republic lines, and then be left to fight anyone who came across their path.

wookieepedia page for Spaarti cloning cylinders: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Spaarti_cloning_cylinder

 
 


 

7. The Republic

 

An overview of the Republic:

‘The development of the Republic, its transformation into the Empire, and the fall of the Jedi, and just what the details of the original history were at the time of the first film.’
 

The Republic Revolution’ - article at The Secret History Of Star Wars website.
 

A screenshot of the article (just in case the superb TSHoSW website ever goes down):

 
 

^ A screenshot on ‘The Old Republic’ section of the ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994):

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

 
 

Also see Cat. #10 & #11 below on Mon Mothma’s “A Call To Reason” manifesto and information from ‘The Farlander Papers’.

 
 


 

8. The Empire

 
(the birth of The Empire; how they came about, and then rose to power)

 

From ‘The Making Of Star Wars’ book by JW Rinzler, on Page 351:

 

Also see ‘The Jedi (as an Order of Knights, Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)’ category for more info on The Empire.

 
 

^ A screenshot on ‘The Empire’ section of the ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994):

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

 

Also see Cat. #10 & #11 below on Mon Mothma’s “A Call To Reason” manifesto and information from ‘The Farlander Papers’.

 
 


 

9. The Rebellion

 
(+ early protests and organisations against the Empire, Palpatine and their corrupt backers)

 

From ‘The Making Of Star Wars’ book by JW Rinzler, on Page 352:

 
 

^ A screenshot of the ‘Rebel Alliance’ section of the ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994):

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

 
 

^ from Page 6 of the 1994 ‘Rebel Alliance Sourcebook’ (2nd edition)

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Rebel_Alliance_Sourcebook_(Second_Edition)

 

Also see Cat. #10 & #11 below on Mon Mothma’s “A Call To Reason” manifesto and information from ‘The Farlander Papers’.

 
 


 

10. “A Call To Reason” : The Farlander Papers (Part 1)

The Rebellion attempting to recruit more people to its ranks:

 

Sideburns of BoShek said:
 

“The Farlander Papers” : from the 1993 X-Wing game : a mission & companion book that came with the game

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Farlander_Papers
 

Mon Mothma speaks of the “decades of peace” between the end of the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire, with Palpatine being elected President during the war, but not declaring himself Emperor and exterminating the Jedi, until much later.

Some pages relevant to the “pre-Prequels” story at the time:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All 98 pages of ‘The Farlander Papers’ can be seen here: https://archive.org/details/pdfy-52fQeoxh9CohzbEk/page/n67/mode/2up

 
 


 

11. “A Call To Reason” : The Farlander Papers (Part 2)

some pages from Mon Mothma’s manifesto-type document
 

(and also part of ‘The Farlander Papers’, from the 1993 X-Wing game)

 

Sideburns of BoShek said:
 

A Call To Reason” : some pages from Mon Mothma’s manifesto-type document used to try and attract people to the Rebellion (and part of ‘The Farlander Papers’):
 

 

 

 

 

 

All 98 pages of ‘The Farlander Papers’ can be seen here: https://archive.org/details/pdfy-52fQeoxh9CohzbEk/page/n67/mode/2up

 

 




 

A Thread Index:

Introduction
A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Miscellaneous
Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
Credits
 

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

The Jedi (as an Order of Knights, Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)

 
(info on individual Jedi can be found in the ‘Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies’ category below)

 
 

x

 
 

The Official Star Wars Technical Journal(1995), on Page 75 - states the Jedi numbered in their ‘hundreds of thousands’:-

^ wookieepedia page for the 1995 OSWTJ book: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Official_Star_Wars_Technical_Journal
 

The full text can also be found on Pages 8, 9, & 10 of ‘A Brief History of The Empire’, in the ‘Starlog - Star Wars Technical Journal, Vol 02 (Imperial Forces)’ book, by Shane Johnson, which can be seen here, via Scribd, or in abridged ‘text only’ form, below:

 
 

The 1995 ‘Children Of The Jedi’ novel, by Barbara Hambly, states the following:

^ from the wookieepedia page for the COTJ: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Children_of_the_Jedi_(novel)#Continuity
 

A screenshot from Chapter 12 of the 1995 ‘Children Of The Jedi’ book:

 
^ there is more info on Jedi having relationships, marriages, and children etc, in the ‘A few OT•com threads index’ further below.

 

 

My personal take on the Jedi; compiled from the Original Trilogy films, novelizations, radio plays, and early pre-PT era materials:

The Jedi Order is an ancient peacekeeping organization unified by its belief and observance of the Force, specifically the light side. For over a thousand generations the Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic, defending and protecting the people of it, and became the most well known of the various groups that relied on the Force for their power.

The Jedi lived like many others did in the galaxy; having attachments; family ties, marriage, relationships, and children. And anyone wishing to become a Jedi themselves, whether young or old, could do so as long as they truly understood the deep commitment and sacrifice being a Jedi entailed. That only those with unwavering trust and true belief in the Force, to be able to feel the Force around you - wherever you are - or situation you find yourself in, was central to being a Jedi. An understanding that a Jedi’s strength flows from the Force itself, to be calm and at peace whenever possible. Yet to also be weary of the quicker, easy and more seductive path; of anger, fear and aggression… which led to the all-consuming dark side of the Force.

Led by a series of Jedi Councils, the Order grew over the many millennia despite facing many trials. Most often these threats were engineered by the Sith, the most prominent group of Force sensitives who wielded the dark side of the Force.

However, less than two decades after the end of the devastating Clone Wars (35BBY)… with the Jedi and the Republic narrowly emerging victorious after many years of galaxy-wide conflicts, that only not cost the lives of billions, but decimated countless worlds and systems, and also greatly reduced the numbers of Jedi, both the Old Republic and the Jedi Order were no more…
 

Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the Republic, and the massive organs of commerce and the avaricious military complex, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic. Yet the time the third term came along, he had corrupted so much of the Senate that they made him Emperor for the rest of his life. Soon after, Palpatine declared the Old Republic over, and announced the formation of new Galactic Empire, under his control, was to replace it.

It was impossible and too late for the Senate to do anything. Palpatine had long manipulated a great many things; in fact, it was he who secretly started the corruption & bureaucracy that had run amok since the Clone Wars, and had carefully manipulated the Senate into doing his bidding because he was seemingly the only one who really had any power to prevent the Republic from deteriorating further. The manipulation was so large there was no other way to get things done; he had paid off Senators to be loyal to him, installed key people in the bureaucracy who were working for him, and were paid by the corporations.

When he became Emperor, the half of the Senate still loyal to the ideals of the Old Republic reacted strongly against the whole thing. There was a rebellion in terms of the Senate against the Emperor; they tried to oust him legally and have him impeached. But many of the Senators who were fighting the Emperor at that time mysteriously died. The Jedi Knights were alerted immediately and they rallied to the Senate’s side. But Palpatine appeared to be one step ahead yet again, and when the Jedi finally rallied and tried to restore order, they were betrayed and eventually killed by Darth Vader and elite Imperial forces.
 

When the Jedi had tried to restore order, Darth Vader was still one of the Jedi. Vader would catch the Jedi off-guard, having lured many into traps, and then killing them without the Jedi Order realizing what was happening. They trusted him and didn’t realize he was the traitor who was decimating their ranks. The Emperor had also a new elite Imperial military he had amassed in secret with the backing of the military complex and corporations; an army of clone stormtroopers. The same type of clones that had ravaged the galaxy and the Republic had fought against in the Clone Wars. The Jedi were so outnumbered that they fled but were tracked down. They tried to regroup, but they were eventually massacred by elite Imperial forces led by Vader.

The last remaining few Jedi then went into exile and hiding, but over time nearly all were hunted down by Vader. Hope only remained in the form of a small number of systems and even smaller number of brave people scattered throughout the galaxy who rebelled at these events; those who saw through the Emperor’s scheming and stood against his reign of oppression, fascism and terror. Declaring themselves opposed to the Empire they began the long battle to try and restore the Old Republic.

Kenobi, Vader’s old tutor and master, who had defeated the Dark Lord years prior, waited patiently in hiding along with Master Yoda, for the right time to help the fledging Rebellion defeat Vader, the Emperor, and the Empire… and for the Jedi to return.

^ click on the ‘Expand’ button above to view the text.

 

 

^ A screenshot of the ‘Jedi Knights & Jedi Master’ sections of ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994):-

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

 

^ From the same ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994), on ‘The Jedi Code’ & ‘Jedi Holocrons’:-

 

^ and from the same ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994), on ‘The Force’:-

 
 

Star Wars Prequels Were Mapped Out By George Lucas & Lawrence Kasdan In 1981: Exclusive Excerpt From The Making Of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi

^ a 2013 article at the Huffington Post, promoting JW Rinzler’s ‘Making Of Return Of The Jedi’ book.
 

As the screenshot below highlights, the following conversation is from the July 1981 story conference for “Revenge of the Jedi”, covering a number of topics, including the Force:

 
 

Obi Wan Kenobi describes The Force to Luke, and also what happened to Luke’s father:

^ A screenshot from Chapter 5 of the 1976 novelization of Star Wars.

wookieepedia page for the 1976 novelization: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_A_New_Hope_(novelization)

 
 


 
 

Imagine, if you will… a world without love. For the Jedi - this was made so for the Prequel films. Another time, another galaxy…
 

^ An official promotional poster for Episode II: Attack Of The Clones - “A Jedi shall not know anger, nor hatred, nor love”.

 
 

x

 
 


 
 

A few OT•com threads that feature some comprehensive information on the more widely known facets of Pre-Prequel era lore:

  1. Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels
  2. Putting The Original-Original Trilogy’s Prequel Story together
  3. The Prequels as Envisioned by the (Pre-PT) Expanded Universe
  4. What if The Prequels were based on the Pre-PT EU and were more “OT Accurate”
  5. Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue (+ character ages + when certain events take place)
  6. What did you think the Clone Wars were gonna be?
  7. The Jedi Purge | a general discussion
  8. Were the Jedi supposed to not be allowed to get married, have children or any possessions when the OT was made?
  9. On Jedi and Attachment
  10. At what point did Tatooine robes become Jedi uniforms?
  11. OT lightsaber colours; (and some waffling on about the various colours used across the OT & Expanded Universe)
  12. Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the Prequels? Or was it added later in the EU?
  13. What Luke’s father and Darth Vader would have been like had Lucas kept them as separate characters?
  14. Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… (a ‘50+ issues’ list)

 
• Some OT film drafts and character threads for the OT era can be found in An Index for Original Trilogy Discussion

• Some EU material covering the Pre-Prequel era (before the PT films) can be found in An Index for the Expanded Universe
 

• More threads on the Jedi (and the Force) can be found in the An Index of Relevant Threads category.

 
 


 
 

 
 




 

A Thread Index:

Introduction
A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Miscellaneous
Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
Credits
 

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Characters and Biographies | Protagonists & Allies

Including any alterations to their personas or origin stories…

 

Index of Individual Characters:

  1. Threepio
  2. R2D2
  3. Yoda
  4. Owen Lars
  5. Obi Wan Kenobi
  6. Halagad Ventor
  7. Tan Skywalker
  8. Mon Mothma
  9. Bail Organa
  10. Garm Bel Iblis
  11. Leia
  12. Han Solo
  13. Chewbacca & Wookiees
  14. Lando Calrissian
  15. Wedge Antilles
  16. The Devist family of clones
     

^ If anyone has any more information or material for the ‘Characters and Biographies’ section, please post them up.

 
There is a separate category for the Jedi; as a group, or an order of knights, above.

 
 


 

1. Threepio

 

 
Kenner’s 1997 12" Action Figure of C-3PO, from their Star Wars Collector Series
 

"With his prissy-manner and compulsive odds-quoting, C-3PO is one of the most famous droids in the galaxy! A Cybot Galactica 3PO Human Cyborg Relations Droid, Threepio was activated 112 years before his adventures with the Alliance.

Threepio is outfitted with a TranLang Communication module which allows him to be fluent in over 6 million galactic languages. They range from common dialects to more obscure and archaic languages from forgotten systems. Fitted with personality modules, this droid experiences emotions and feelings similar to those of a human who could very well lend to the fact that he takes unusual pleasure in worrying, complaining and whining!

Both he and R2-D2, the most famous droid duo this side of the galaxy, came into galactic prominence completely by mistake.

They were owned by the Royal House of Alderaan and ordered to restrict and protect all references to Princess Leia. During an attack by the Imperials, Leia places stolen Imperial data inside R2-D2 and then ordered him to find Obi-Wan Kenobi and bring him back to Alderaan. While laser fire was erupting around them, R2-D2 jumped into an escape pod and the fussy mother hen-like Threeepio hopped in alongside. Landing on the planet of Tatooine, they were sold to the Lars homestead. Soon after, they met their new master, young Luke Skywalker. From then on, the adventures were the most exciting both droids had ever experienced.

Because Threepio has never been through a memory wipe, he has acquired much wisdom and insight, and has become an integral part of the Alliance. He is a constant presence at the side of Princess Leia acting as an essential part in negotiations and truce-makings.

Authentically styled straight from Star Wars, this special edition, fully poseable, 12" C-3PO, available for the first time ever, is destined to become a classic collectible."
 

More images and info: https://geekbodega.com/products/c-3po-star-wars-collector-series-kenner-1997-12-action-figure

 
 

^ ‘The Essential Guide to Droids’ book, from 1999 - https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Essential_Guide_to_Droids

 
 

^ from ‘The Making Of Star Wars’ book, by JW Rinzler, on Page 351.

 
 


 

2. R2D2

 

From ‘The Making Of Star Wars’ book, by JW Rinzler, on Page 352:

 
 


 

3. Yoda

 

^ ‘1980 Topps Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back Series 1’: Yoda listed as 973 years old

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/1980_Topps_Star_Wars:_The_Empire_Strikes_Back_Series_1

 

^ ‘1996 Topps Star Wars Finest: #38 - Yoda’:

Yoda chilling out with some other Jedi Force Ghosts friends who have to visit (obviously before Qui-Gon became the first Jedi to learn this power/ability in Episode III: ROTS)

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/1996_Topps_Star_Wars_Finest

 
 

In the 1994 novel ‘Jedi Search’, by Kevin J. Anderson, Leia infers that Dagobah had been Yoda’s home for centuries:

wookieepedia for the Jedi Search novel: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jedi_Search#Continuity
 

A screenshot from Chapter 24 of Jedi Search; where Leia considers Dagobah for a possible Jedi Academy, stating that:

“What about Dagobah itself? she thought, putting a fingertip on her lower lip. The swamps had hidden Yoda for centuries”

 
 


 

4. Owen Lars

 

Sideburns of BoShek said:

In the official 1983 Return of the Jedi novelization, by James Kahn, Ben Kenobi tells Luke that Owen was his own brother:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Return_of_the_Jedi_(novelization)#Differences_from_later_works

 

Sideburns of BoShek said:

In the official licensed 1995 Premiere Limited set of the Star Wars Customizable Card Game, released by Decipher, it is stated that Owen Lars is the “brother of Obi-Wan Kenobi”:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Premiere_Limited & https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Owen_(Kenobi)

 

^ ‘The Essential Guide to Characters’ book, 1995 - https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Essential_Guide_to_Characters

 
 


 

5. Obi Wan Kenobi:

 

^ A screenshot on the ‘Obi Wan Kenobi’ section of the useful resource ‘Lost Episodes’ website, via Archive•.com:-

https://web.archive.org/web/20060509041453/http://lostepisodes.fateback.com/prequels/obiwan.html

and…

The first Prequel era story(w/ Obi Wan): See Cat #1 of Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments

^ more info: “Star Wars (1977) comic #24”, published in 1979 - https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_(1977)_24

 
 

The following screenshot highlights the subtle differences in conversations; about or with Obi Wan Kenobi - from the 1977 film - differences between the movie, the 1976 film novelization, the 1977 comic, and the 1981 radio play:

^ from ‘Appendix’ of ‘May The Source Be With You: Extended Edition’ article at andrewrilstone•com

 
 

A screenshot of a Ben Kenobi biography from the “Heroes & Villains” section of the 1977 Official Star Wars Poster Monthly:

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Official_Poster_Monthly

 
 

In Chapter 3 of James Kahn’s 1983 novelization of Return Of The Jedi, Obi Wan tells Luke of his fight against Vader, with Vader falling into “a molten pit”, all those years ago:

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Return_of_the_Jedi_(novelization)

 
 

A younger Obi Wan Kenobi:
 

^ by Hugh Fleming, in 1994.
 

Painted for Topps’ Star Wars Galaxy 2 card set: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/1994_Topps_Star_Wars_Galaxy_Series_2

more info: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hugh_Fleming
 

Fleming describes additional inspiration for his painting on the card’s back:

“I beg of you, George, don’t succumb to inevitable studio demands that Steven Seagal play young Obi-Wan in the next trilogy…” frets Australian illustrator Hugh Fleming. “My vote is with actor/director Kenneth Branagh, the only performer with the dignity and presence to fill Sir Alec Guinness’ Jedi robes.”

 
 


 

6. Halagad Ventor - Jedi Knight and apprentice of Obi Wan Kenobi

 

 
'Halagad Ventor was a male Human Jedi Knight who was trained at an unusually late age, due to the fact that he was passed over for training initially during his childhood on Alderaan. Jedi Master Everen Ettene eventually agreed to take him as a Padawan at the Almas Academy. Since the nature of his training was unnatural, Ventor’s actions as a Jedi were considered unorthodox, and he neglected the more subtle aspects of the Force.

Ventor served as a Jedi General during the Clone Wars, and was a recipient of the Medallion of Honor. Under the leadership of Obi-Wan Kenobi, he helped liberate the planet Skye from Zeta Magnus, a genetic terrorist, during which time he engaged in a Concordance of Fealty with Anakin Skywalker. Later in the Outer Rim Sieges, Ventor commanded a team which included Sha Koon assisting to purge the Confederacy of Independent Systems from the planet Bal’demnic.

Surviving Order 66, Ventor teamed up with Jedi Master Ashka Boda to establish a network of fellow surviving Jedi. He was soon captured by the new Galactic Empire and interrogated by former protege, Darth Vader. Ventor was forced to reveal the secret location of his hidden Jedi network. He eventually escaped Vader and fled to Trinta, where madness and the dark side of the Force consumed him.’

^ from the wookieepedia page https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Halagad_Ventor

 

Domain of Evil is an adventure supplement for Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game published by West End Games. It was written by Jim Bambra and published in 1991. It was republished in Classic Adventures: Volume Two. It is perhaps most notable for introducing Halagad Ventor.’

^ wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Domain_of_Evil

 

“Halagad” is an anagram of “Galahad” - one of the more famous Knights of the Round Table at King Arthur’s Court.

 

 
 


 

7. Tan Skywalker (Luke’s father)

 

 

‘The name of Tan originated with Russ Manning, a Star Wars writer and illustrator who published numerous black-and-white newspaper comic strips in the late 1970s and early 1980s. In one 1978 series of strips that was later titled The Constancia Affair, Luke Skywalker’s parents were called “Master and Mistress Tan Skywalker.” The name “Anakin” was only revealed in the 1983 movie Return of the Jedi, five years after the release of The Constantia Affair.’

^ wookieepedia page for Tan Skywalker: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tan_(title)#Behind_the_scenes

wookieepedia page for ‘The Constancia Affair’ comic strip: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Constancia_Affair

 
 


 

8. Mon Mothma

 

^ from 'The Official Star Wars Fact File in 2001: an official Star Wars website article publicising them (via Archive):

https://web.archive.org/web/20050209010448/https://www.starwars.com/eu/lit/ref/news20010317.html

 

Also see Cat. #10 & #11 below on Mon Mothma’s “A Call To Reason” manifesto and information from ‘The Farlander Papers’ in the ‘Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments’ section.

 

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Mon_Mothma/Legends

 
 


 

9. Bail Organa

 

^ A screenshot of the ‘Bail Organa’ section of the 1994 book: ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’, 2nd edition.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

 

^ and from the same 1994 book: ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’, 2nd edition, on Aldreraan:-

 
 

Bail’s original first name was “Prestor”, the name used in the 1981 Star Wars radio play, and was voiced by actor Stephen Elliott:

^ wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_(radio_series)

How Star Wars has depicted the rise of the Rebel Alliance through the years - article at Polygon (in ‘The Rebellion’s Origin On Radio’ section)

 
 

Obi Wan Kenobi served under Bail Organa in the Clone Wars. Leia’s holo message: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N_Cj3ZS9-A

 
 

^ Mon Mothma and Bail Organa on ‘The Birth Of The Rebellion’. From Page 9 of the ‘Rebel Alliance Sourcebook

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Rebel_Alliance_Sourcebook_(Second_Edition)

 
 

Star Wars Universe Wiki: https://starwars-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Bail_Organa

wookieepedia page for Bail Organa: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Bail_Prestor_Organa/Legends

wookieepedia page for Bail Organa’s office: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Bail_Prestor_Organa’s_office_(Aldera)

 
 


 

10. Garm Bel Iblis

 

 

Caston said:

From Pages 24-26 of the “Star Wars: The Essential Chronology” book (2000 edition), by Kevin J. Anderson and Daniel Wallace:

^ wookieepedia page https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Essential_Chronology_(real-world_book)
 

The book is from 2000, and while it does contain events from The Phantom Menace, it obviously doesn’t contain the timelines, events and characters from the other two PT films.

The screenshot above also mentions Bail Organa, Mon Mothma, and Garm Bel Iblis of Corellia; the third Rebellion co-founder (the three main revolutionary groups coming together to work as one; the 3 signatories of Alliance to Restore The Republic), and Garm somehow being a character I often forget about.
 

A fan theory on Garm Bel Iblis maybe appearing in Andor’s 2nd season (and that we may have already seen him in the 1st season of Andor?):

www.inverse.com/entertainment/andor-luthen-fate
 

wookieepedia page for Garm Bel Iblis: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Garm_Bel_Iblis/Legends

 
 

GARM BEL IBLIS Character Entry | Star Wars Legends Lore

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnHrFztYvb8 - 11 minute YouTube video at Corey’s Datapad

 
 

A screenshot of the 2000 ‘A Guide to the Star Wars Universe, Third Edition, Revised and Expanded’ book:

^ wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Third_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

 
 

A screenshot of the 1995 ‘The Essential Guide to Characters’ book:

^ wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Essential_Guide_to_Characters

 
 


 

11. Leia

 

From the Star Wars Marvel comics; the 1982 release of “The Search Begins”:

^ wookieepedia page for Star Wars Marvel comic #68: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_(1977)_68

The story is during the search for Boba Fett and Han Solo after Empire Strikes Back, but characters recall events from The Clone Wars: including Leia fighting in them! The OT heroes split up to track down some bounty hunters:

'Of the three bounty hunters on their list, Princess Leia is assigned to hunt down Dengar, last seen on the planet Mandalore. Landing just outside the capital city of Kedalbe, Leia and C-3PO make their way on foot before encountering a caravan of individuals. To their surprise, the procession is a group of slavers, herding a group of enslaved Mandalorians. Before Leia and C-3PO can sneak away, the caravan comes under attack by a group of Mandalorian soldiers led by what looks to be, Boba Fett. During the battle, Leia ends up saving “Fett” from a slaver’s attack, and is shocked to find herself fighting by the Mandalorian’s side.

Following the end of the battle, the Mandalorian leader introduces himself to Leia. He is not actually Boba Fett, but another Mandalorian named Fenn Shysa. Shysa brings Leia and C-3PO back to his base and explains to her how he has spent the past few years trying to free his people from the Galactic Empire’s influence in the aftermath of the Clone Wars. Shysa then tells Leia of his role in the Clone Wars, claiming that he fought for the Empire, was led into battle by Boba Fett, and even became acquainted with Leia during briefing missions. Shysa finishes his tale by telling Leia that of all the Mandalorian Protectors, only three survived, his commander, his childhood friend, Tobbi Dala, and himself.’
 

www.bobafettfanclub.com/bounty/books/comics/sw_68 & www.therealgentlemenofleisure.com/2017/08/force-in-focus-star-wars-68.html
 

^ 'This issue introduces the planet Mandalore. Along with Shysa, this issue introduces the planet Mandalore, along with the concept that it is the home to a group of supercommandoes all wearing Fett-like armor, explicitly making Boba Fett a Mandalorian as a result, elements leftover from early drafts of the Empire Strikes Back script adopted here.

In addition to learning Boba Fett is from Mandalore, through Shysa, this issue also provides some backstory for Boba Fett, saying he was the commander of the Mandalorian Protectors who fought alongside the Empire during the Clone Wars, before becoming disillusioned and striking out on his own as bounty hunter.’

 
 

Leia also had brothers - at least two of them; presumed killed on Alderaan along with her parents:

^ From ‘The Making Of Star Wars’ book, by JW Rinzler, on Page 353:

 
 

Leia being the Mal’ary’ush, and learning of Vader’s cruel deception on the Noghri during the Clone Wars, in 35 BBY:

In 9 ABY Leia finds that during the Clone Wars, some 44 years ago, Vader & Palpatine poisoned the planet of Honoghr. Then lied to it’s Noghri inhabitants, that the Republic was responsible; making them sworn enemies, keeping them in virtual slavery & servitude since.
 

^ from the ‘Dark Force Rising’ comic - Issue #5, in 1997: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Force_Rising_5

 
'Mal’ary’ush was Honoghran for ‘Daughter of the Savior’. The Savior in question was Darth Vader, whom the Noghri people revered. Years earlier, a starship carrying noxious chemicals crashed on Honoghr and threatened to destroy the entire planet. They believed Emperor Palpatine sent Vader to the planet to help them, but in reality Palpatine was responsible for the devastation of Honoghr, as a way to bend their allegiance to the Galactic Empire.

The daughter was Leia Organa Solo, who years later would find herself at the mercy of the Noghri people in the Republic’s battle against their new master, Grand Admiral Thrawn. However, one Noghri, Khabarakh, through the use of the sense of smell inherent to the Noghri—acute enough to smell even one’s bloodline—discovered she was the daughter of Vader and pledged to help her escape Imperial custody. Later, Leia would reveal the treachery of Palpatine to the Noghri, which emboldened them to finally break their allegiance to the Galactic Empire.’
 

From Chapter 24 of the ‘Dark Force Rising’ book:

‘Leia put her hand against the smooth wood of the genealogy chart, her knees suddenly feeling weak with shock. Forty-four years. Not the five or eight or even ten that she’d assumed. Forty-four. “It didn’t happen during the Rebellion,” she heard herself say. “It happened during the Clone Wars.”’

a screenshot of the relevant part of the book:

^ from https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Mal'ary'ush & https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Noghri_revolution

& https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Mission_to_Honoghr & https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Noghri/Legends#Lady_Vader

 
 


 

12. Han Solo

 

In the Brian Daley’s 1979 book ‘Han Solo’s Revenge’, Han makes a brief mention of the Clone Wars:

^ A screenshot from: www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/80ah66/what_we_knew_about_the_clone_wars_before_the_pt

 

In these intriguing early EU books, Han is an orphan, traveled with “space gypsies,” and learned to fly at the “Space Academy”.

More info:

Han Solo at Stars’ End: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Han_Solo_at_Stars’_End
Han Solo’s Revenge: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Han_Solo’s_Revenge
Han Solo and the Lost Legacy: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Han_Solo_and_the_Lost_Legacy

The Han Solo Adventures: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Han_Solo_Adventures

^ a compilation of the 3 above books, published in 1992.

 

From ‘The Making Of Star Wars’ book, by JW Rinzler, on Page 350:-

 
 


 

 

13. Chewbacca - and adult Wookiees being telepathic

 

 
^ Thought Waves first appeared in ‘The Wookiee Storybook’, a picture book written by Eleanor Ehrhardt, illustrated by Patricia Wynne, and published in 1979.
 

Thought Waves wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Thought_wave

The Wookiee Storybook wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Wookiee_Storybook

 
 


 

14. Lando Calrissian

 
Lando’s original backstory had him being a clone…
 

 

'At their first story conference [for Empire Strikes Back], Lucas essentially talked at Brackett about the ideas he had floating around his head; the discussion was transcribed and the highlights were eventually reproduced in JW Rinzler’s The Making of the Empire Strikes Back.

“I wanted to bring in someone from Han’s past,” Lucas explained to Brackett. “Even though the Star Wars saga is essentially about Luke’s destiny and his past, I wanted to round out Han Solo’s character a little bit. The ‘gambler’ used to hang with Han, but is a different kind of person, more of a rogue and a con artist type than a fast-shooting, fast-talking type like Han.”

Initially conceived as someone who might run a general store on Chewbacca’s home planet (“a guy who trades with the Indians sort of thing”), Lucas saw his new character as “a slick, riverboat gambler type of dude”.

“Han Solo is a rather crude, rough-and-tumble kind of guy; this guy will be a very slicked down, elegant, James Bond-type,” he continued.

"Maybe he could look human but not really be human. He’s possibly a clone. The princess doesn’t trust him because of that; Leia might refer to him in a derogatory way.

"If we set him up as a clone, maybe in one of the other Episodes, we can have him run across a clan of them who are all exactly like him. We won’t go into the whole mythology of where they come from or whether clones were good or bad. We’ll assume that they were slightly weird in their own way and were partly responsible for the war.

“We’ll assume that on these planets of clones, there are many countries, say about 700 countries, and he’s from one of the ruling clone clans.”
 

^ snippet & screenshot from the the superb and informative The Calrissian clone connection article - at Force Material.

The Empire Strikes Back – First Draft, by Leigh Brackett - at Starkiller: The Jedi Bendu script website (a quality resource)
 
 

Lando Calrissian Was NEARLY Star Wars’ First Clone - a 2021 article at CBR

 

Lando Calrissian Was The Original Clone Per George Lucas - a 45 second video at the Star Wars Apprentice YouTube channel

 

Lando Kadar wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Lando_Kadar

 

Some early Star Wars novels featuring Lando…

The Calrissian Trilogy of books - by L. Neil Smith, in 1983.

Lando Calrissian & Mindharp of Sharu: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Lando_Calrissian_and_the_Mindharp_of_Sharu
Lando Calrissian & Flamewind of Oseon: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Lando_Calrissian_and_the_Flamewind_of_Oseon
Lando Calrissian & Starcave of ThonBoka: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Lando_Calrissian_and_the_Starcave_of_ThonBoka

The Lando Calrissian Adventures wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Lando_Calrissian_Adventures

^ a compilation of the 3 Lando Calrissian books above, released in 1994.

 
 


 

15. Wedge Antilles

 

 
In the 2nd book of Michael A. Stackpole ‘X-Wing’ series; ‘Wedge’s Gamble’ book, from 1996:

In 7ABY X-Wing pilot Wedge Antilles finds Imperial propaganda about the Jedi Purge in a museum on Coruscant. The document states that after the end of the Clone Wars the Jedi, when taking non-human disciples started to become corrupt, eventually plotting to take control of the galaxy… was foiled by Palpatine and the only Jedi (Darth Vader) who remained loyal, saving everyone from “a tyrannical Jedi state”…
 

^ wookieepedia page for ‘Wedge’s Gamble’ book: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/X-Wing:_Wedge’s_Gamble

 
 


 

16. The Devist family of clones:

 

 

From chapter 4 of the 1998 ‘Vision Of The Future’ novel by Timothy Zahn; more insight and information is provided on clones, and the general perceptions of them decades after the Clone Wars:

wookieepedia page for Vision Of The Future: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Vision_of_the_Future

wookieepedia page for Carib Devist: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Carib_Devist

wookieepedia page for the Devist family of Clones: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Devist_family

wookieepedia page for Soontir Fel: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Soontir_Fel/Legends

 
 


 

 




 

A Thread Index:

Introduction
A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Miscellaneous
Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
Credits
 

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries, and their Allies

Including any alterations to their personas or origin stories…

 
Index of Antagonists, Adversaries, and their Allies:

  1. Mandalorians
  2. Boba Fett / Jaster Mereel
  3. Atha Prime
  4. Clone Masters
  5. The Clones
  6. Bpfasshi Dark Jedi
  7. Anakin / Darth Vader
  8. Palpatine
  9. Gilad Pellaeon
  10. Tarkin
  11. Joruus C’baoth
  12. Stormtroopers (originally being clones in the OT films)
     

^ If anyone has any more information or material for the ‘Characters and Biographies’ section, please post them up.

 
 


 

1. Mandalorians

 

From the Star Wars Marvel comics #68; the 1982 release of “The Search Begins”:

 
The story is during the search for Boba Fett and Han Solo after Empire Strikes Back, but characters recall events from The Clone Wars: including Leia fighting in them! The OT heroes split up to track down some bounty hunters:

'Of the three bounty hunters on their list, Princess Leia is assigned to hunt down Dengar, last seen on the planet Mandalore. Landing just outside the capital city of Kedalbe, Leia and C-3PO make their way on foot before encountering a caravan of individuals. To their surprise, the procession is a group of slavers, herding a group of enslaved Mandalorians. Before Leia and C-3PO can sneak away, the caravan comes under attack by a group of Mandalorian soldiers led by what looks to be, Boba Fett.

During the battle, Leia ends up saving “Fett” from a slaver’s attack, and is shocked to find herself fighting by the Mandalorian’s side. Following the end of the battle, the Mandalorian leader introduces himself to Leia. He is not actually Boba Fett, but another Mandalorian named Fenn Shysa. Shysa brings Leia and C-3PO back to his base and explains to her how he has spent the past few years trying to free his people from the Galactic Empire’s influence in the aftermath of the Clone Wars.

Shysa then tells Leia of his role in the Clone Wars, claiming that he fought for the Empire, was led into battle by Boba Fett, and even became acquainted with Leia during briefing missions. Shysa finishes his tale by telling Leia that of all the Mandalorian Protectors, only three survived, his commander, his childhood friend, Tobbi Dala, and himself.’

^ from the wookieepedia page for Star Wars Marvel comic #68: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_(1977)_68

 

 
Firsts and Other Notables:

'This issue introduces Fenn Shysa, a Mandalorian wearing Boba Fett-like armor. He will appear again next issue and then a few more times post-Return of the Jedi, and like Shira Brie, he is one of the few original characters from this series to survive into the later Expanded Universe, being mentioned in at least one Dark Horse issue, a few of the novels, and having some of his backstory and history reflected in the various non-fiction guides.

Along with Shysa, this issue introduces the planet Mandalore, along with the concept that it is the home to a group of supercommandoes all wearing Fett-like armor, explicitly making Boba Fett a Mandalorian as a result, all elements leftover from early drafts of the Empire Strikes Back script adopted here.

In addition to learning Boba Fett is from Mandalore, through Shysa, this issue also provides some backstory for Boba Fett, saying he was the commander of the Mandalorian Protectors who fought alongside the Empire during the Clone Wars, before becoming disillusioned and striking out on his own as bounty hunter.’
 

In general:

'Along with Shysa, this issue introduces the planet Mandalore, along with the concept that it is the home to a group of supercommandoes all wearing Fett-like armor, explicitly making Boba Fett a Mandalorian as a result, all elements leftover from early drafts of the Empire Strikes Back script adopted here.

In addition to learning Boba Fett is from Mandalore, through Shysa, this issue also provides some backstory for Boba Fett, saying he was the commander of the Mandalorian Protectors who fought alongside the Empire during the Clone Wars, before becoming disillusioned and striking out on his own as bounty hunter.

And much of Mandalore’s depiction here, in which it is a generally jungle world, will be overwritten by appearances in Clone Wars and Rebels episodes, where it appears as a more open, windswept planet doted by urban centers.’
 

^ from the ‘Force in Focus: Star Wars #68’: www.therealgentlemenofleisure.com/2017/08/force-in-focus-star-wars-68.html

 
 


 

2. Boba Fett / Jaster Mereel

 

(LORE) Attack of the Legends - Boba Fett - a 35 minute video at the Saintmillion YouTube channel.

^ The first 12 minutes of the video covers the pre-PT era lore of Boba (before he was made a clone in Episode II: AOTC).

Video Description: ‘A deep dive into the lore of Boba Fett from 1990 to 2014. Be sure to subscribe and click the bell for more Legends Lore, Star Wars content, and more!’

 
 

^ from the 1980 ‘The Empire Strikes Back’ Novelization - www.bobafettfanclub.com/fettpedia/quotes/69

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Empire_Strikes_Back_(novelization)
 

a screenshot of the more complete description from Chapter 9 of ‘The Empire Strikes Back’ novelization:

 
 

Boba Fett’s ORIGINAL Backstory Before the Prequels | Star Wars Legends Lore - 7 minute video from EckhartsLadder (2017)

Video Description: ‘Before the Star Wars Prequels, and the revelation that Boba Fett is a clone of his father, Jango Fett, the Star Wars Legends Expanded Universe had a created backstory for the galaxy’s most famous bounty hunter. Where did Boba Fett come from? Was he always intended to be a Mandalorian? Was he always a clone? Find out on today’s Star Wars Lore Episode which examines the Star Wars Tales of the Bounty Hunters Short Stories Collection.’

 
 

In the Dark Empire II comics, by Tom Veitch, Boba was an Imperial stormtrooper who murdered his superior officer:

^ wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Dark_Empire_II

 
 

Jaster Mereel

 
The 1996 ‘Tales of the Bounty Hunters’ anthology book revealed that Boba Fett was Jaster Mereel, in Daniel Keys Moran’s ‘The Last One Standing: The Tale of Boba Fett’ story.

Tales of the Bounty Hunters wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_the_Bounty_Hunters

wookieepedia page for ‘TLOS: TToBF’: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Last_One_Standing:_The_Tale_of_Boba_Fett

Jaster Mereel wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jaster_Mereel

 
 

Daniel Keys Moran - “The Last One Standing: The Tale of Boba Fett” author and inventor of “Jaster Mereel” overview:

www.bobafettfanclub.com/fettpedia/daniel-keys-moran
 

Exclusive Interview with Daniel Keys Moran, the Author Behind Boba Fett’s Honor - Part 1; at The Boba Fett Fan Club

Exclusive Interview with Daniel Keys Moran, the Author Behind Boba Fett’s Honor - Part 2; at The Boba Fett Fan Club

 

^ a screenshot from: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Last_One_Standing:_The_Tale_of_Boba_Fett#Continuity

 
 


 

3. Atha Prime

 

 
‘Atha Prime, an egotistical genetics master and ruler of the “dark worlds,” was one of the architects of the Clone Wars’

‘A genetics master and ruler of the dark worlds, was an arbiter of the Clone Wars and a co-conspirator of Grand Moff Tarkin’s. He was exiled to the fringes of the galaxy by Palpatine, although the Emperor’s death in 4 ABY allowed Prime to return to the galaxy and begin a campaign of conquest.’
 

Although he was created after the ROTJ to be part of a new storyline with the aim of selling toys and merchandise, he origin story does have him as one of architects of the the Clone Wars, efforts have been made to include the character in other material since, so has been included in here, too.

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Atha_Prime

 
 


 

4. Clone Masters

 

^ wookieepedia page for Clone Masters (Legends): https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Clone_Master/Legends

 

Spaarti cloning cylinders, as used in the Clone Wars, to breed large numbers of clones and clone warriors. Some cylinders being found and stored away in secret by the Emperor, with Thrawn trying build an army of clones to fight the Republic in the years after the Emperor’s death:

^ wookieepedia page for Spaarti cloning cylinders: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Spaarti_cloning_cylinder

 
 


 

5. The Clones and Clone Warriors

 

^ an image of Atha Prime’s Clone Warriors in battle armour

 

The Clone Wars had ravaged and devastated the galaxy according to those who were old enough, and fortunate enough, to have lived through them. Or those that knew of the horrors new Clone Wars would bring. A selection of accounts and recollections that appeared in Timothy Zahn’s ‘Heir To The Empire’ trilogy of books, set in 9ABY (released 1991-1993):

 

Clone Madness:

 

 
and also…

'If a clone was grown too quickly, the clone’s mind would begin to deteriorate, leading to psychosis. The shortest time to normally grow a clone was one standard year, and between three and five years was considered necessary to prevent the risk.

The reason for clone madness was a debated issue. Some scientists believed that it was because the body was grown too quickly, and the brain being fed information could not handle the amount of data at such a rate. Others believed that it was due to a “double presence” the clone caused in the Force.’

^ from the wookieepedia page on Clone Madness: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Clone_madness

 
 


 

6. Bpfasshi Dark Jedi

 

^ wookieepedia page for the Bpfasshi: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Bpfasshi/Legends

 

^ from Chapter 9 of Timothy Zahn’s 1991 ‘Heir To Empire’ book (aka part one of ‘The Thrawn Trilogy’).

 

more background information on Dark Jedi and the Bbfasshi: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Bpfassh

& https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Jedi/Legends & https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Bpfasshi_Dark_Jedi_leader

 
 

^ A screenshot on the ‘Bpfassh’ section of the ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994):-

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

 
 

A quick note on “Dark Jedi”:

^ a screenshot from the wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Jedi/Legends#Behind_the_scenes

Note: Leland Chee’s quotes in the screenshot above come from 2007 and 2005 respectively.

 
 


 

7. Anakin / Darth Vader

 

^ A screenshot on the ‘Anakin Skywalker’ section of ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994):-

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

 

^ and from the same ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994), on ‘Darth Vader’:-

 
 

Obi Wan tells Luke that “when you father left, he didn’t know your mother was pregnant”; in the 1983 Return Of The Jedi novelization, by James Khan:

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Return_of_the_Jedi_(novelization)

 
 

Darth Vader, his wife, and baby Luke:
 

^ by Brian Ashmore, in 1993.
 

Painted for Topps’ Star Wars Galaxy 2 card set: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/1994_Topps_Star_Wars_Galaxy_Series_2
 

more info (+ Brian Ashmore’s take on the image from 2008): https://clubjade.net/the-first-image-of-padme-and-anakin-from-1993

“There are a couple things that I find interesting about the image. First, my depiction of Padme (I had no idea of her name at the time… this was 6 years before Episode 1) looks a bit like Natalie Portman. Second, Anakin’s shadow on the wall is in the shape of Darth Vader. I’ve always wondered if this image might have influenced Lucas even just a little tiny bit in his casting of Natalie Portman or even the decision to have little Anakin’s shadow be in the shape of Darth Vader in an early Episode 1 promo poster. Probably not, but I can dream. Can’t I?”

 
 

^ from ‘The Making Of Star Wars’ book, by JW Rinzler, on Page 352.

 
 

^ from ‘The Making Of Star Wars’ book, by JW Rinzler, on Page 352.

 
 

Charles Lippincott’s superb blog features this taped conversation between George Lucas, Charles Lippincott, and Alan Dean Foster, on 27th July 1976 - on Darth Vader originally being one of many Dark Lords, then George Lucas eventually deciding just to make Vader the only one:-
 

 
^ from http://therealcharleslippincott.blogspot.com/2015/11/the-alan-dean-foster-interviews.html

 
 

From the Revenge of the Jedi story conference, in 1981, regarding how Lucas originally saw the difference between Anakin and Obi-Wan’s ages, and how Anakin Skywalker will look upon being unmasked:

Marquand: “He’s as old as Alec, isn’t he?”
Lucas: “He’s not as old as Alec.”
Marquand: “But visually?”
Lucas: “Visually, he is close.”

 
Also from the Revenge Of The Jedi 1981 story conference, George Lucas states the following:

^ a screenshot from George Lucas’ Original Plan For The STAR WARS Prequel Trilogy article at Film Buff Online.

 
 

In the 1977 ‘George Lucas: The Wizard of Star Wars’ interview with George Lucas, for Rolling Stone magazine, George explains why Vader breathes so heavily:

 
 

For those interested in content featuring Anakin and Vader as being separate characters:-

(as they were until George’s famous retcon in 1978 after the 1st draft of Empire Strikes Back where he merged the two together)
 

Star Wars Annual 1’ - The Long Hunt - published in 1979:

 
‘In this issue Aragh says that, during the Clone Wars, Obi-Wan Kenobi and two of his students saved Skye from destruction. He said one student was Darth Vader and the other he identified by saying Luke wore his lightsaber, implying it was Luke’s father.’

^ wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Annual_(1977)_1

 
 


 

8. Palpatine

 

From the ‘Star Wars novelisation’ in 1976 - Prologue written by George Lucas…
 

 
wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_A_New_Hope_(novelization)

 
 

Charles Lippincott’s superb blog seemingly points out the exact moment when Lucas junked the ideas of a gradual decline of the Republic and having multiple Emperors, replacing this with the idea of a single evil mastermind. From a taped conversation between George Lucas, Charles Lippincott, and Alan Dean Foster, on 27th July 1976:-
 

 
^ from http://therealcharleslippincott.blogspot.com/2015/11/the-alan-dean-foster-interviews.html

 

Also from the same conversation as featured in Charles Lippincott’s blog - an overview on the President decided he’d rather be called Emperor - and the Republic eventually becoming the Empire:
 

&

 
 

^ from ‘The Making Of Star Wars’ book, by JW Rinzler, on Page 352.

 
 

From a time when Palpatine was just an evil politician…

“[The Emperor] was a politician. Richard M. Nixon was his name. He subverted the senate and finally took over and became an imperial guy and he was really evil. But he pretended to be a really nice guy.” - George Lucas, #ReturnOfTheJedi story conference, July 1981’

^ from https://twitter.com/PhilSzostak/status/1178235806919454721 (Phil Szostak is Lucasfilm creative art manager)
 

A screenshot from the above tweet by Phil Szostak - from Page 180 of JW Rinzler’s ‘The Making of Return of the Jedi’ book:

 
 

^ A screenshot of the ‘Palpatine’ section of the 1994 book: ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’, 2nd edition:-

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

 
 

When Palpatine was not a Sith - and Vader was ‘The Dark Lord Of The Sith’ (from before the Episode III: ROTS):

Superweapon VII said:

Vladius said:

I do think Palpatine was intended to be a Sith, though. Once the Sith and the concept of Sith Lords existed, I’m fairly certain that Vader and Palpatine were integrated into it.

Little doubt this is what Lucas intended, but it’s a factoid he apparently kept close to his chest, because Palpatine wasn’t characterized as a Sith in the pre-1999 EU. Darth Vader was characterized as THE Dark Lord of the Sith during the time of the Empire, and as per Tales of the Jedi, only the reigning Sith lord held the “Dark Lord” title. And Empire’s End excluded Palpatine from the Sith hierarchy.


The Sith spirits were gracious enough to make Palpatine an honorary Dark Lord in lieu of Vader, but that Vader had a throne set up for him in their mausoleum while Palpatine didn’t speaks volumes.

^ wookieepedia page for Empire’s End (Dark Empire III): https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Empire’s_End (1995)

 
 

The first confirmation of Palpatine being a Sith in official Star Wats material occurred in July of 2000 - in the Star Wars Customizable Card Game’s ‘Death Star II’ set cards:

 
‘The Death Star II Limited set is the eighth full expansion set of the Star Wars Customizable Card Game, a card game based on the Star Wars universe. It consists of 182 cards (91 Dark Side and 91 Light Side cards) and was introduced in July of 2000. This set consists of 2 ultra-rare, 2 exclusive rare, 78 rare, 50 uncommon, and 50 common cards. This set introduced many of the classic characters from Star Wars: Episode VI Return of the Jedi that were involved with the events surrounding the Death Star II and the Battle of Endor.’

^ from this wookiepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Death_Star_II_Limited

 
 

Palpatine’s Original, Dark Backstories (from BEFORE the PREQUELS) - 10 minute video from EckhartsLadder (2020)

Video Description: ‘We cover the original dark backstories of Emperor Palpatine in Star Wars Legends from BEFORE the release of the Prequels.’

 
 

Cos Dashit - the original name for the character who became Sheev Palpatine:

wookieepedia page for Cos Dashit: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Cos_Dashit

 

Starkiller: The Jedi Bendu Script Site - for various early drafts of the first 6 main Star Wars films:

www.starwarz.com/starkiller/category/star-wars-scripts/star-wars-star-wars-scripts

 
 

On Page 38 of the 1993 West End Games sourcebook for Dark Empire, by Michael Allen Horne, there is reference to Palpatine being a ‘Jedi Master’ (screenshot below).

Although this labelling of Palpatine as a ‘Jedi Master’ does seem to be as part of a categorization for the role playing game itself, and not part of a backstory where Palpatine was actually once a Jedi Master himself (unless any other sources also have him listed as a Jedi Master).

wookieepedia page for the Dark Empire sourcebook: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Empire_Sourcebook

 
 


 

9. Gilad Pellaeon

 

 

Gilad Pellaeon stated the following 5 years after the events of The Battle Of Endor / Return Of The Jedi:

(from Chapter 1 of the ‘Heir to the Empire’ book by Timothy Zahn)
 

 
^ from www.penguinrandomhouse.ca/books/195416/heir-to-the-empire-star-wars-legends-the-thrawn-trilogy-by-timothy-zahn/9780593358764/excerpt

 

wookieepedia page for Heir To The Empire: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Heir_to_the_Empire

wookieepedia page for Gilad Pellaeon: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Gilad_Pellaeon/Legends

 
 

^ A screenshot on the ‘Gilad Pallaeon’ section of ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994):-

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

 
 

The Legend of Gilad Pellaeon - Star Wars Explained

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqsx307tVqE - a 2 minute video from the Star Wars Explained YouTube channel, in 2016.

 
 


 

10. Tarkin

 

 

^ A screenshot of the ‘Tarkin’ section of the 1994 book: ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’, 2nd edition:-

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

 
 

^ an abridged image detailing the Ghorman Massacre, in Mon Mothma’s “A Call To Reason” - from ‘The Farlander Papers’.

(see Categories #10 & 11 of in this thread’s ‘Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments’ category)

 
 

How Tarkin Fueled a Rebellion - The Ghorman Massacre

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X3GQvMxga4 - a 5 minute YouTube video at Corey’s Datapad

 
 

The Tarkin Doctrine”:

^ Pages 14 & 15 of 1989’s ‘The Imperial Sourcebook’

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Imperial_Sourcebook

 

Tarkin wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Wilhuff_Tarkin/Legends

 
 


 

11. Joruus C’baoth

 

Joruus C’baoth, the insane clone of a dark jedi.

From the ‘Heir To The Empire’ trilogy by Timothy Zahn.

 

He is mentioned here… because what happened to Joruus C’baoth is very similar to what happened to many other Clones from the Clone Wars era, in regards to the ‘clone insanity’ they suffered from when clones were grown too quickly.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Joruus_C'baoth & https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Clone_madness

 

^ A screenshot of the ‘Joruus C’baoth’ section of the 1994 book: ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’, 2nd edition:-

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

 
 


 

12. Stormtroopers (originally being clones in the OT films)

 

From the Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies (50+ issues) thread; Cat #51:
 

oojason said:

51. / Bonus: Stormtroopers were originally clones in the Original Trilogy…

Something a little different to the other categories… and just a little reminder that stormtroopers were originally clones in the Original Trilogy - until later being retconned as otherwise by George Lucas some 30 years later…
 

In January 1978, the ‘Star Wars Official Poster Magazine #4’, published by Galaxy Publications Ltd in the UK, featured a lengthy and detailed article entitled ‘Soldiers Of The Empire’, by Anthony Fredrickson. It detailed the training and organization of the Stormtroopers, and was apparently the first source to reveal the fact that stormtroopers were clones. It states:-

"The creation of an Imperial Stormtrooper. A cloned man is one of a group of genetically identical humans, an assembly-line product. He is a thinking man, but he serves a specific purpose and no other. A Clone has no mother; only his trainers, and he accepts his fate because he believes it is inevitable. A Clone is, physically and emotionally, a normal man. He simply has no human rights and no name. He is the property of the Emperor. Soldiers fully formed in the growth tanks quickly proved impractical. Scientists found themselves the befuddled fathers of 12-stone blubbering idiots. A foetus is now removed from the hatchery after a gestation period of 60 weeks and is delivered immediately into the hands of its trainers.
 

A screenshot of the ‘Soldiers Of The Empire’ article:-

^ _or click here for the full size version - https://i.imgur.com/EdhcP4s.jpg_

 
 

Also, Adam Bray, the author of the official Star Wars resource book ‘Stormtroopers: Beyond the Armor(a comprehensive resource on stormtroopers both in the Star Wars universe and in the real world) states:-

“I was surprised how much influence Hasbro has had on recent Star Wars animation, from initiating Tartakovsky’s Clone Wars series, to the classic Kenner action figures as inspiration for the character designs in Star Wars Rebels. I was also fascinated how George Lucas’ ideas about who stormtroopers were actually changed over time. It wasn’t until he began conceptualizing a Star Wars TV show that Lucas decided the stormtroopers would be normal humans rather than clones.

^ from www.starwars.com/news/how-stormtroopers-beyond-the-armor-celebrates-the-empires-soldiers (2018 article)

 

The above also give some more credence to Leia’s line in Star Wars '77 of: “Aren’t you a little short for a stormtrooper?” with Leia’s expressing surprise at Luke coming up a little on the short side… compared to his other taller supposed clone counterparts.

As clones… they don’t all have to have the same voice - or have derived from the same genetic source - though George did do exactly this for the Prequel Trilogy… with Boba Fett’s father, Jango, as the sole genetic source used for Clone Troopers.

 

The stormtrooper head bump

Stormtrooper bumps his head in Star Wars '77 : www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBQaLuqwtl8 (a 17 second video clip)

Jango bumps his head in Attack Of The Clones : www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjK_JFwTOWE (a 25 second video clip)
 

^ In the audio commentary for the Attack Of The Clones DVD, George Lucas talks about the backstory of Boba and Jango…

“It wasn’t until I started working on this script that I decided to make Boba the son of the original clone. Before, he was just another clone who was, for whatever reason, had sort of broken loose from the stormtroopers. I didn’t really go into detail at that point, even in my mind, or in the backstory… other than they were connected. But early on the stormtroopers were meant to be clones.”

^ www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0NyOcE4z10 (at 14 mins and 40 secs into this video of the George Lucas commentary for AOTC)
 

the commentary then continues… and George later talks about him having Jango bump his head on the door of Slave I:-
 

“You know, throughout as we go through the movie there’s all these little funny moments… like Jango bumping his head… because in Star Wars (1977) one of the stormtroopers bumps in head on the door as they leave the control room on the Death Star. And I thought wouldn’t it be funny if… that’s a trait Jango has… when he put his helmet and everything, he can’t really see that well… so he is constantly bumping his head… and that trait gets cloned into all the stormtroopers. That’s why they keep bumping their heads.

^ www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0NyOcE4z10 (at 21 mins and 35 secs into this video of the George Lucas commentary for AOTC)

 

Sources:-

https://archive.org/details/LT12P0207 - an audio reading of the ‘Soldiers Of The Empire’, by Anthony Fredrickson. Read by Tim McMahon, of the ‘Less Than 12 Parsecs - #0207’ podcast.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Soldiers_of_the_Empire! & https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Official_Poster_Monthly_4
http://eclectorama.blogspot.com/2007/07/many-proud-clones.html
www.starwars.com/news/how-stormtroopers-beyond-the-armor-celebrates-the-empires-soldiers

 

^ all credit to screamsinthevoid’s post below for the heads-up on stormtroopers originally being clones

 
 


 

 




 

A Thread Index:

Introduction
A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Miscellaneous
Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
Credits
 

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Miscellaneous

 

This section features some relevant information that doesn’t really fit in with the other categories in the thread. Or includes some info having a loose connection or relevance to the topic of the pre-PT era, or even just some interesting titbits of material found when searching for pre-PT era content.

 

An Index for Miscellaneous:

  1. ‘Star Wars novelization’ (1976) - Prologue written by George Lucas
  2. ‘Splinter Of The Mind’s Eye’ book (1994 re-issue) - Introduction written by George Lucas
  3. ‘Shatterpoint’ book (2004) - Prologue: ‘The Clone Wars’ written by George Lucas
  4. Some hopefully useful ‘Info Posts’ on various aspects of Canon; Legends and EU
  5. ‘Before the Dark Times, Before the Empire: How AOTC Changed Star Wars Before Disney Owned the Canon’ article
  6. The ‘Deckplans Alliance’ website: a well researched and useful resource
  7. Star Wars told through the droids’ POV Chewbacca’s point of view
  8. Kenobi giving Luke some very 1990’s secret codes
  9. Anja Gallandro; the first character to train as a Jedi - despite not being force sensitive?
  10. The fan theory that Obi Wan was a clone: OB-1 = ‘Original Body 1’
  11. Become a StarWarrior - ‘the successors to the Jedi Knights’
  12. George Lucas’ conflicting claims on why he made the Prequel Trilogy

 

Just some light hearted fun’; a completely unconnected category of content found whilst searching for pre-PT era content, below:

  1. Luke’s mother
  2. Shrinking Star Wars
  3. Master Bayts
  4. When Palpatine revealed on screen what his true first name was…
  5. Death in the Prequel Trilogy
  6. Luke learns he has a brother

 
 


 

1. ‘Star Wars novelization(1976) - Prologue written by George Lucas:

 

 
wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_A_New_Hope_(novelization)

 
 


 

2. From the 1994 re-issue of ‘Splinter Of The Mind’s Eye’ - Introduction by George Lucas:

 

 
Splinter Of The Mind’s Eye - written as a low-budget sequel for if the 1977 Star Wars film flopped - was originally published in 1978.

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Splinter_of_the_Mind’s_Eye

 
 


 

3. ‘Shatterpoint’ book (2004) - Prologue: ‘The Clone Wars’, written by George Lucas:

 

 

 

‘Shatterpoint is a novel written by Matthew Stover. The first novel in the Clone Wars novel series and the first released in the Clone Wars multimedia project (2002-2007), it was originally published as a hardcover by Del Rey in June 2003. The paperback edition was published in April 2004, with a prologue by George Lucas and the short story ‘Equipment’, also written by Stover.’

^ wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Shatterpoint_(novel)

 
 


 

4. Some useful ‘Info Posts’ on various aspects of Canon; Legends and EU - in Star Wars:

 

 

George Lucas and the EU: evidence highlighting GL’s contributions to several EU projects - by xezene, on r/StarWarsEU

^ A collection of infographs and posts - with quotes and citations - chronicling George Lucas’ involvement in the Expanded Universe. As well as featuring an impressive array of intriguing and insightful information on the EU in general - by the actual creative talents.

 

Lucasfilm’s claims on canon debunked - The 2008 Clone Wars messes up continuity or how Lucas is still destroying Star Wars

^ An info post chronicling George Lucas’ involvement & contributions with several EU projects (some considered part of his main saga story). This, despite Lucasfilm’s recent baffling attempts trying to downplay or even deny George’s input and contributions in the EU.

 

Retcons to EU; Legends & Canon - The 2008 Clone Wars messes up continuity or how Lucas is still destroying Star Wars

^ Some retcons and alterations in 2008’s The Clone Wars - compared to previously established EU content and onscreen Star Wars history. It also contains links to articles on retcons & alterations made by Dave Filoni projects to other creatives’ work in the GFFA; the EU, Legends, Canon, Prequel Trilogy, 2003 Clone Wars, Rebels, Bad Batch, Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett, Tales of the Jedi, & Ahsoka.

 
 


 

5. ‘Before the Dark Times, Before the Empire: How Attack Of The Clones Changed Star Wars Before Disney Owned the Canon’

 

x

 
An insightful and informative overview of how ‘Episode II: Attack Of The Clones’ brought many new changes to the GFFA…
 

Before the Dark Times, Before the Empire: How Attack of the Clones Changed Star Wars Before Disney Owned the Canon

 
^ a 2022 article by Kevin Fox Jr., at Paste Magazine (www.pastemagazine.com). An archived back up of the article.

 
 


 

6. ‘Deckplans Alliance’ website: an OT vs PT (and EU vs PT) resource:

 

Deskplans Alliance website link: http://deckplans.00sf.com/Research/Prequel.html#Top

A screenshot:

 
Introduction
Episode I
Episode II
Episode III
Expanded Universe
Additional Notes
Sources
About Us

An archived backup of the website: https://archive.is/wA3OG
 

^ The above useful and comprehensively sourced web site was designed for Gamesmasters of the Star Wars Roleplaying Games, notably the West End Games editions. To aid them in highlighting the dissonance and inconsistencies between the Original Trilogy and the Prequel Trilogy, as well as the EU and the Prequel Trilogy. With Gamesmasters having the difficult role of maintaining continuity and history in their gaming campaigns, dating all the way back to the late 1990’s, although it may appeal to some on here too.
 

all credit and many thanks to Gandalf the Cyan for posting about the Deskplans Alliance website resource.

 
 


 

7. Star Wars told through the droids’ POV Chewbacca’s point of view:

 

Charles Lippincott’s superb blog features a taped conversation between George Lucas, Charles Lippincott, and Alan Dean Foster, on 27th July 1976.

In it Lucas ponders Star Wars not being told through R2D2 and C3PO’s point of view, but from Chewbacca’s POV, to his family:-
 

 
Which as Lippincott states in the link below:-

Remind you of anything? The STAR WARS HOLIDAY SPECIAL, which, when I asked folks what they wanted me to write about, came up as the most favored topic… There are a lot of underground rivers which lead to the STAR WARS HOLIDAY SPECIAL. As you can see from this quote, it was an idea George had since 1976.

 
^ from http://therealcharleslippincott.blogspot.com/2015/11/the-alan-dean-foster-interviews.html

 
 


 

8. Obi Wan Kenobi giving Luke some very 1990’s secret codes:

 

In the first Jedi Prince series of books, “The Lost City of The Jedi” (released in 1992); Ben Kenobi appears to Luke in a dream and gives him the code JE-99-DI-88-FOR-00-CE."

^ a screenshot from https://readstarwars.wordpress.com/2019/01/28/review-jedi-prince-the-lost-city-of-the-jedi-1992
 

wookieepedia page for the TLCoTJ book: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Lost_City_of_the_Jedi
 

It is probably the most 1990s thing in Star Wars! I typed this code in on a lot of Star Wars games at the time… hoping it would be useful (it wasn’t!). The Jedi really did need some better security codes 😃

 
 


 

9. Anja Gallandro, the first character to train as a Jedi, despite not being force sensitive?:

 

 
Anja Gallandro, despite not being Force-sensitive, wielded an ancient yellow lightsaber and studied to be a Jedi at Luke Skywalker’s Jedi academy on Yavin 4. Similar to how Sabine was shown to be trained as a Jedi, despite not being force sensitive, in the 2023 live-action Ahsoka series.
 

Edit: ^ It turned out that Sabine was force sensitive later on in the Ahsoka series. A pity, that. The concept of a non-force sensitive character training as a Jedi seemed to be an intriguing one.
 

wookieepedia page for Anja Gallandro: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Anja_Gallandro

wookieepedia page for her 1st appearance: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Young_Jedi_Knights:_Return_to_Ord_Mantell

 
 


 

10. The very old fan theory that Obi Wan was a clone: OB-1 = ‘Original Body 1’

 

Keyan Farlander said:

I saw this in another thread, but thought it could appeal to many in here:
 

Channel72 said:

Literally any fan speculation about the Clone Wars is likely to be cooler than what Lucas actually came up with in 2002.

Like everyone else, I imagined some awesome galactic conflict with massive clone armies controlled by distant alien factions trying to overthrow the Republic, along with clone-based subterfuge and political intrigue (cloning of Senators or Jedi - with some darker elements like cloned Jedi going insane).

I did not imagine that the clones were boring CGI Stormtroopers created under bullshit circumstances for the Republic to use at the last minute to fight some equally boring CGI robots as part of an under-explained civil war, and that every single clone was actually Boba Fett’s dad.

Anyway, pre-Prequel ideas about the Clone Wars always fascinated me because while many of these ideas are traceable to pre-1999 EU publications, some of these ideas are actually examples of pre-Internet “memes”. These were orally-communicated “memes” whose origin is forever lost to time, yet are somehow consistently known by many people of a certain age group across multiple regions/countries. These memes were spread on playgrounds, fan gatherings, and mail-based fan publications, in a way similar to how stories and myths were spread in pre-literate cultures. Similar to childhood songs that somehow every kid of a certain age knew (“Jingle Bells, Batman Smells”), the idea that Obi Wan Kenobi was actually OB-1 the clone is a pre-Internet meme that was remarkably wide-spread before the Internet, and remains well known to this day. Every Star Wars fan in the 80s and 90s somehow “knew a guy” that told them about this theory. (Of course it turned out to be false, and I’m glad, because it’s stupid.)

 
Below are some articles on this fan theory from at that time, something I always found kinda interesting: the fan theory from before the Prequels, and the web, that Obi Wan was a clone:

OB-1 = ‘Original Body 1’

Obi-Wan Kenobi is a Clone - at The Movie Blog
Obi-Wan Kenobi is Actually OB1 Kenobi - at CBR
Excuse me Mr. Kenobi, but was that Obi-Wan or OB1? - at Trailer Addict
Star Wars’ Weirdest Fan Theory Concerned… Obi-Wan’s Name? - at CBR
Star Wars Fan Theories Explained: Obi-Wan & Anakin Are Really Clones 0B-1 & NKN - at Looper
Where did the ideas of Obi-Wan being a clone named OB-1 originate from? - reddit/RewritingThePrequels

 
 


 

11. Become a StarWarrior - ‘the successors to the Jedi Knights’:

 
A screenshot of a StarWarrior charter member / fan type section ($10 per year) of the 1977 Official Star Wars Poster Monthly:
 

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Official_Poster_Monthly

 
 


 

12. George Lucas’ conflicting claims on why he made the Prequel Trilogy

 

oojason said:

As an aside… George Lucas claiming the 6 Star Wars films “form the biography of Vader”… (aka GL’s oft-claimed post-PT ‘Star Wars has always been the tragedy of Darth Vader’) - but that he wasn’t aware of this “until 1998”…

A screenshot of a 2005 Vanity Fair article (February issue) promoting Revenge Of The Sith:-

 

…and yet in 2019 George claimed the reason why he made the Prequel Trilogy films was because the fans didn’t understand in the 10 years after Return Of The Jedi… that the backstory to the Original Trilogy was really “about the tragedy of Darth Vader”… something he himself stated he himself hadn’t realised “until 1998”… after he had already wrote and filmed TPM!

Sure George, sure…

A screenshot of the 2024 George Lucas made Star Wars prequels because fans “didn’t get” story - article at The Digital Bits:-

^ The 2019 SW•com article referenced above: www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-oral-history

 
 


 

 


 
 

Just for some light hearted fun:

 
 

1. Luke’s mother:

 

😉

 
 

2. The shrinking universe of Star Wars:

 

 

 

3. Master Bayts: in the 2000 comic issue ‘Jedi Council - Acts of War 2’:

 

^ Master Bayts [cough - wink - cough] (Soon Bayts) wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Soon_Bayts

‘Jedi Council: Acts of War 2’ wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jedi_Council:_Acts_of_War_2

 

 

4. When Palpatine revealed on screen what his true first name was:

 

 
^ When Palpatine revealed on screen what his true first name was: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QheFNbgnMgQ

 

 

5. Death in the Prequel Trilogy:

 

 

 

6 . Luke learns he has a brother:

 

 

 




 

A Thread Index:

Introduction
A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Miscellaneous
Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
Credits
 

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

A blank post; to be used for a possible future category (if ever needed).

 

Instead of having a blank post here, until a new category is made for this post (if it ever is), here are some OT•com threads discussing ‘the anticipation of the Prequel Trilogy films’; what we as fans at the time were hoping for, expecting, envisioning.

Which was likely based on what we’d already been told about in the OT & EU in the years before the release of the PT films:
 

The Prequels as Envisioned by the (Pre-PT) Expanded Universe (2012 thread)
How the EU and the OT described Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine and the Jedi Knights before the PT films? (2023 thread)
Star Wars Prequels were mapped out in 1981, only nothing like the way they turned out (2013 thread)
Interesting Hypothesis of the Prequels Story from the Mid 90’s (2005; ‘Looking Back To The Future Of Star Wars’, by John L. Flynn)
What did we all expect from the Prequel Trilogy? (2004 thread)
How did you envision the Prequels? (2007 thread)
What were your original expectations for the PT? (2007 thread)
How did you imagine The Star Wars Prequels before they came out? (2011 thread)
What did you think the Clone Wars were gonna be? (2005 thread)
How did you imagine the Emperor taking over? (2005 thread)
Did you think Dagobah was Yoda’s homeworld before the Prequels were made? (2022 thread)
How you pictured Anakin pre-PT (2015 thread)
The Jedi Purge | a general discussion (2024 thread)

^ the above discussions are from the much larger ‘An Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy•com Threads’ category, found below.
 

Also of interest may be:

Phil Tippett on the Special Editions: “They’re shit” + £2b for George to direct the Prequels (2021 thread)

^ it also features some of the hype, PR campaigns, merch and marketing for the Prequels, and reviews of the PT at the time and since.
 

&

screams in the void said:

Don’t know if it has previously been posted elsewhere on this site , but here is a link to an article from Cinescape magazine speculating on the prequels in 1995 . Found on Reddit …https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/10vv3qk/cinescape_magazines_predictions_for_the_prequels/

&

screams in the void said:

also , a Cinescape magazine from November of 97 ,after some of the actors had been cast ,but still full of speculations …found on the archive …https://archive.org/details/cinescape-11-97/page/42/mode/2up
very interesting how close to what ended up being Jango’s armor color scheme is on that cover !

 

Maybe someone will do an “info thread” for ‘the anticipation of the Prequel Trilogy films’, full of sources from the time?

 
 




 

A Thread Index:

Introduction
A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Miscellaneous
Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
Credits
 

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed

 

If you have any knowledge or memories of more pre-TT era material; stories, events or characters etc to add in here, or simply know of better quality sources and citations than those already posted up in here, please post them up in this thread.
 

Any help in providing answers, thoughts, information, or sources and citations - in checking and verifying any of these below is most welcome.
 

Key: = have not yet found sources to confirm this. ✔️ = confirmed and also discussed in this thread.

 
 

Q 1. A list of assorted ‘pre-PT era’ claims to check:
 

(click on the ‘Expand’ button below to see some intriguing pre-PT era content posted by CharlieTheStrawman at reddit/SWEU)
 

Sideburns of BoShek said:
 

I found this helpful thread on a rare visit to the StarWarsEU reddit: Prequels before the prequels
 

  1. The Thrawn Trilogy and various other material put the end of the Clone Wars at 35 BBY. ✔️

  2. An obscure West End Roleplaying Game piece lists Palpatine as a former Jedi Master. ✔️

  3. Jedi Search has Luke saying Yoda lived on Dagobah for hundreds of years. ✔️

  4. The ESB Novelization says the Republic fought Mandalorians in the CW, and pretty much everybody agreed the Clones were the main enemy. ✔️

  5. The main uniform of the Jedi was what Luke wore in ROTJ. ✔️

  6. the Sith were name dropped in the ANH Novelization, but nobody knew what they actually were. Zahn wanted to to have them as what later became the Noghiri, but that was vetoed. ✔️

  7. Palpatine came into power after the CW. Mon Mothma was a Senator at the time. ✔️

  8. Obi-Wan had another apprentice alongside Anakin during the CW (initially Vader when he was a separate character from Ani, but that was obviously retconned. That guy later became Halagad Ventor). ✔️

  9. Owen was Obi-Wan’s brother. ✔️

  10. Luke and Leia’s mother stayed with the latter, and died when the twins were four. ✔️

  11. Anakin and Obi-Wan still fought on a lava planet. ✔️

  12. Obi was implied to be from Tatooine. ✔️

  13. Jedi could get married. ✔️

  14. Boba Fett’s real name was Jaster Meereel, and he was an adult during the CW. ✔️

  15. Vader was already in the suit when the Empire began, he rose the through the ranks as damaged goods (mainly through being Tarkin’s henchman).

  16. Leia’s adoptive father’s first name was Prestor (retconned to be his middle name). ✔️

  17. Anakin didn’t know his wife was pregnant at all. ✔️

If I remember anything else, I’ll edit it in."

 
^ all in a single post by CharlieTheStrawman

 

Status: 17 claims in total. 1 to still check/verify. 16 confirmed/answered (in here or in the main ‘a few OT•com threads’ section).

& ✔️

The remaining queries/statement; any help or information welcome:

15• Vader was already in the suit when the Empire began, he rose the through the ranks as damaged goods (mainly through being Tarkin’s henchman).

 

 

Q 2. If anyone had read K. W. Jeter’s The Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy, do you recall Mandalorians disappearing from the known galaxy at the end of the Clone Wars?
 

wookieepedia page for 1998-99’s The Bounty Hunters trilogy: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Bounty_Hunter_Wars

The titles of the trilogy of book are: ‘The Mandalorian Armor’, ‘Slave Ship’, and ‘Hard Merchandise’.
 

Superweapon VII said:

I’ve come across a few posts from folks who claim that K. W. Jeter’s The Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy references the Clone Wars. Specifically, that the majority of Mandalorians disappeared from the known galaxy at the end of the wars, their fleet making a blind hyperspace jump into the unknown. None of them cited their sources, though, which is frustrating.

Status:

 

 

Q 3. Was there an old EU story with Obi Wan finding a young Anakin working as a navigator on a spice freighter?
 

Luke Skywalker: “No, my father didn’t fight in the Clone Wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter.”

Obi-Wan Kenobi: “That’s what your uncle told you. He didn’t hold with your father’s ideals; he felt he should’ve stayed here and not gotten involved.”

Luke Skywalker: “You fought in the Clone Wars?”

Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: “Yes. I was once a Jedi Knight, the same as your father.”

^ Ah yes, when Luke’s father and Darth Vader were still two separate characters!
 

Okay… for some bizarre reason; my imagination, a ‘mandela effect’, maybe reading a fan-fic or fan-lore, or even an old EU tale… I remember reading a short story set in the pre-PT era where this was actually the circumstances of how Obi-Wan met Anakin:-

That Obi-Wan was using the spice freighter as a transport to drop him off to his far-off mission, when the ship came under attack by pirates, the bridge crew killed, and Anakin then took over the controls and piloted the ship to safety from an almost certain death. Obi Wan was impressed with Anakin’s skills and how strong he was with the Force, and took it upon himself to offer Anakin the chance to train as a Jedi, when he returned from completing his far-off mission.
 

Did anyone else read or remember this? Know the EU story? magazine article, or fan-fic? Even an online story post? Or maybe took the same drugs back in the 90’s and shared the same dream, or false memory?

If you do remember any of this story, please let me know. Thanks!

(oojason)

Status:

 

 

Q 4. Speculation for the upcoming PT films in 1997 From Starlog magazine #236 (March 1997):

Illustrations of a group of Jedi wearing Luke’s ROTJ-type garb, and mentions of them fighting Mandalorians,.
 

screams in the void said:

Also , I have a Starlog magazine , issue 236 , celebrating the 20th anniversary of Star Wars in 1997 . There is an article in it speculating about the then upcoming prequel trilogy . It has some cartoony illustrations of a group of Jedi Knights all wearing Luke’s ROTJ garb ,mentions them fighting Mandalorians ,and gives a breakdown of how they thought each movie may go . Unfortunately , my copy is buried in a box somewhere in my walk in closet under a pile of old electronics . So if anyone has a copy of that issue ,it would be great to post it here with scans . I couldn’t find the article online anywhere . ( too bad the internet archive took down their collection of Starlog that was on there a few years back )

Status: - has anyone got a scan, or able to scan this issue, for the above content?

 

 




 

A Thread Index:

Introduction
A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Miscellaneous
Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
Credits
 

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy•com Threads

 

The Index below is from the following category in ‘An Index for General Star Wars Discussion’:
 

'The Star Wars Universe: OT & EU - Life & Lore before the Prequels (the PT ushering in George’s ‘nu-SW rules’ and more retcons)

 

oojason said:

Star Wars before the Prequels (with the PT ushering in George’s ‘nu-SW rules’) : life & lore from both the Original Trilogy & Expanded Universe…

 

Some threads highlighting ‘pre-PT era’ lore & history - before the Prequel films retconned it & introduced new lore…

 
Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels (2019 thread)

Putting The Original-Original Trilogy’s Prequel Story together (2008 thread)

The Prequels as Envisioned by the (Pre-PT) Expanded Universe (2012 thread)

What if The Prequels were based on the Pre-PT EU and were more “OT Accurate”? (2023 thread)

How the EU and the OT described Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine and the Jedi Knights before the PT films? (2023 thread)

Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue (2015 thread; + character ages + when certain events took place…)

Star Wars Prequels were mapped out in 1981, only nothing like the way they turned out (2013 thread)

What if the Prequels were made in the 80’s? (2022 thread)

Star Wars in the '90s? (2009 thread)

Interesting Hypothesis of the Prequels Story from the Mid 90’s (2005 thread)

What did we all expect from the Prequel Trilogy? (2004 thread)

How did you envision the Prequels? (2007 thread)

What were your original expectations for the PT? (2007 thread)

How did you imagine The Star Wars Prequels before they came out? (2011 thread)

What did you think the Clone Wars were gonna be? (2005 thread)

How did you imagine the Emperor taking over? (2005 thread)

Did you think Dagobah was Yoda’s homeworld before the Prequels were made? (2022 thread)

How you pictured Anakin pre-PT (2015 thread)

“You don’t know the power of the dark side! I must obey my master” (2005 thread; OT dialogue vs PT events)

Shrinking Star Wars? (2011 thread)

Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the Prequels? Or was it added later in the EU? (2021)

Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… (2021 thread; ‘50+ issues’ list)
 

The Jedi & Sith; The Force - Light & Dark Side, in between, and the mystery…

 
Including discussions on the dissonance between the Jedi of the Original Trilogy era vs Prequels & since… (1976-1998 vs 1999-present)
 

Lucas’ Inspirations for Star Wars (2012 thread)

Bushido of Star Wars (2004 thread)

The Jedi Purge | a general discussion (2024 thread)

Ignorance in the Star Wars Galaxy (2014 thread)

Do you think the average citizen of the Star Wars galaxy would even be aware of the Force? (2012 thread)

Personal Opinions on the Nature of the Force (2013 thread)

Questions about the The Force & the SW universe (2018 thread)

What was George talking about here? In his conversation with Alan Dean Foster? - re The Force in ESB (2020 thread)

Inconsistent use of “the force” (2008 thread)

Frivolous use of the Force (2014 thread)

Unused force ability? - re The Force in ESB (2004 thread)

Force Speed question? (2014 thread)

How did Vader deflect those shots? (2009 thread)

“explanations” about Vader (2009 thread)

Help me settle an argument: does Luke use the ‘force choke’? (2004 thread)

“You don’t know the power of the dark side! I must obey my master” (2005 thread)

Luke VS the Emperor- What if Vader hadn’t been there? (2009 thread)

In 30 years why do you think Emperor… never taught Vader how to do the lightning? (2016 thread)

When and why did Lucas decide to make The Emperor a Force-user? (2022 thread)

What would Darth Vader have been like as a ruler, if he had overthrown emperor palpatine and became the emperor/ruler of the galaxy himself?? (2012 thread)
 

The Jedi…

 
Your favorite Jedi? (2011 thread)

“I was ONCE (emphasis mine) a Jedi Knight, the same as your father.” (2007 thread)

Is Obi-Wan a Jedi Master or a Jedi Knight? (2016 thread)

Who Was Obi Wan Kenobi’s Real Master? (2014 thread)

Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… (2021 unfinished ‘50+ topics list’ thread)

Are the Jedi so good? (2011 thread)

When did the Jedi become monks? (2007 thread)

Were the Jedi supposed to not be allowed to get married, have children or any possessions when the OT was made? (2023)

What Luke’s father and Darth Vader would have been like had Lucas kept them seperate? (2023 thread)

At what point did Tatooine robes become Jedi uniforms? (2023 thread)

how long does it take to train a jedi? (2005 thread)

Do the Jedi steal children? (2007 thread)

Too Old (2004 thread)

On Jedi and Attachment (2022 thread)

the next generation of Jedi (2010 thread; Jedi offspring, reproduction, attachments etc)

Punishment for committing Adultery if you are a Jedi…?? (2005 thread)

Yoda & Emperor PT vs OT (2005 thread)

The Jedi of the PT (2014 thread)

ROTS: The Jedi Now Seen In A Different Light… (2005 thread)

I hate the Jedi (2019 thread; the disconnect between OT & PT Jedi)

Who is the greatest Jedi of all time? (Dave Filoni says it is Anakin Skywalker. Is he?) (2023 thread)

jedi spirits (2006 thread; EU spirit possession etc)

I’ve given this a lot of thought, and I’ve decided this makes no sense. (Qui-Gon and Anakin’s ghosts.) (2006 thread)

Why Didn’t Qui Gon Gin’s Body Disappear Like Obiwan’s and Yoda’s? (2017 thread)

A mini-index of OT.com threads on the subject of Anakin Skywalker’s Force Ghost in Return Of The Jedi (2020 thread)
 

Lightsabers…

 
What methods were used in coming up with the choreography of the lightsaber duels? (2020 thread)

another example of Lucas changing things to appeal to a new generation - lightsaber dueling styles of OT vs PT (2010 thread)

OT lightsaber colours (2019 thread; and some waffling on about the various colours used across the OT & Expanded Universe etc)

Multiple Lightsaber Colour Appreciation Thread! (2012 thread; with images for many differing saber colours over time)

The Curse of the Blue Lightsaber (2004 thread)

Best (and worst) lightsaber colour? (2016 thread)

Best (and worst) lightsaber design? (2016 thread)

the lightsaber (2018 thread)

lightsaber ambient light (2011 thread)

 

 

The Fall of Anakin Skywalker to the Dark Side / Vader being seduced by the power of the Dark Side…

 
“You don’t know the power of the dark side! I must obey my master” (2005 thread)

Anakin’s fall - did it really need three films or could it have been done in one? (2005 thread; pre-ROTS)

For those who are familiar with it, what do you think of the fan script of “Fall of the Republic”? (2023 thread; by John L Flynn)

Interesting Hypothesis of the Prequels Story from the Mid 90’s (2005 thread; John L Flynn’s ‘Fall Of The Republic’ fan-script)

^ John L Flynn’s ‘fan-lore’ script: 1983’s Fall of the Republic & 1994’s Looking Back to the Future of Star Wars & his other works

How did you imagine The Star Wars Prequels before they came out? (2011 thread)

Fall to the Dark Side? (2007 thread)

One of the flaws with Anakin turning to the darkside… (2009 thread)

Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side (2011 thread)

Anakin’s official history (2015 thread)

Help: looking for… ideas on fixing Anakin’s fall to the darkside (2019 thread)

Anakin Skywalker’s turn to the dark side; your alternatives? (2021 thread)

How would you restructure Anakin’s turn to the dark side in the Prequels? (2022 thread)

The Turn: A History of the Evolution of Anakin’s Downfall - from ‘The Secret History Of Star Wars’, by Michael Kaminski (zombie84)

^ Pages 202-207 of the “Making of Star Wars: Revenge Of The Sith” book, by JW Rinzler, also chronicles the late re-writing & re-editing.

 

 

Midichlorians (+ the failed retcon attempt of them ‘having always been there’ in the GFFA, & their invention for the Prequels)

 
Lucas’ EU in 1977 (midi-chlorians, space gypsies & crystal currency) (George retcons history re midichlorians)

Proof of Lucas’ revisionism in Rinzler’s making-of book? (George retcons history to try and make midichlorians a thing in 1977)

Midicholorians (2005 thread)

Less Offensive Midichlorians (2008 thread)

Anakin’s Father… (2005 thread)

Who is Anakin’s father? (2021 thread)

Midichlorians versus Life Day: which is worse? (2011 thread)

Star Wars Prequels were mapped out in 1981, only nothing like the way they turned out (2013 thread)

Other than Jar Jar and midichlorians, what don’t you want in episode 7? (2014 thread)

Who are the Whills? (2014 thread)

Midichlorians Are Not The Force (2021 thread)

Question about PT to OT continuity (2004 thread; re midichlorians)

George Lucas’ comments re his Sequel Trilogy (supposedly re the macrobiotic world and midichlorians, with more retcons)

George Lucas’s Sequel Trilogy (2020 thread; with midichlorians + more retcons; Leia now being ‘The Chosen One’ instead)

Connection between the Telomere tail of human DNA and midi-chlorians? (2012 thread)

 
 

Rather than re-post more of the above Index categories & threads here - I’ll simply list the relevant Index sections:-

 
The Categories listed below can be found in ‘An Index for General Star Wars Discussion
 

• Original Trilogy vs later Star Wars: plot holes, inconsistencies, contradictions, disconnects, mental gymnastics, + stretches etc
• Vs & Similarities (between Trilogies and other Star Wars releases; PT vs OT, EU vs OT, EU vs Standalone Films, ST vs TV, etc)

• Canon
• ‘The pre-Prequel era EU’ discussions in ‘An Index & Help Thread for The Expanded Universe’ features many relevant threads too.

 

If anyone knows of any other relevant threads to include in this section please post them up. Especially for the original birth of the Rebellion, or pre-Prequel era Boba Fett (aka Jaster Mereel), Mandalorians who fought the Jedi in the Clone Wars, Palpatine (not a Sith or even a Dark Side user), Anakin, Obi-Wan, Thrawn, or any other character… that has seen their backstory or persona significantly change since the Prequel Trilogy era. Or please feel free to create any new threads yourselves on the topic…

If you’d like to see a more complete ‘Index Thread’ for this topic - please free to create one - and ask the mods to pin it up. 👍

 

 
^ click on the ‘Expand’ button above to see the lengthy ‘Index of Relevant Threads’ for this topic.
 

The above is correct as of 1st January, 2024. Check An Index for General Star Wars Discussion for more any new additions & edits etc.

 
 

DarthStarkiller1234, DuracellEnergizer, Wannabe Scholar, and a whole host of many other talented writers have also put together some ideas, outlines, and stories based on the ‘PT era’ and ‘pre-Prequel era’ of Star Wars over the years.

These can be found in the Script Writing and Re-writing forum, as well as…

An Index Thread for Script Writing and Re-writing

 
 




 

A Thread Index:

Introduction
A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Miscellaneous
Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
Credits
 

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Credits

 

This was all inspired by theprequelsrule’s Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels thread.

As well as some other recent OT threads and discussions on the subject of pre-Prequel era lore. I hope anyone interested will post up any material or content for that pre-PT era, and also any memories or current thoughts on the subject in here, too.

Tales Of The Jedi | 1993-1998 comic series | a general discussion thread + Veitch & Zahn’s other early worldbuilding projects.

 

Suggested Sources: The Original Trilogy films, draft scripts, TSWHS, 2 Ewok films, Droids cartoon, the books: 1976-83 (inc OT film novelisations), the later EU; novels, comics and games (notably the Thrawn Trilogy), WEG sourcebooks, guidebooks, Art Of books, toys & descriptions, Making Magic & BTM CD-Roms, collecting cards, radio plays, and any other official GFFA content.

^ Sources can also likely be found in magazines that had articles, interviews, and stories featuring material on the pre-Prequel era. Publications such as Starlog, Star Wars Insider, CinemaScape, Hyperspace, the official Fan Clubs and newsletters. Even the early years of the official Star Wars website and blog when such pre-PT lore & history was openly discussed and acknowledged.

 

It is worth acknowledging that this pre-Prequel era of lore also had some contradictions and flaws in its own history and timelines. Yet that for some of us, this was more interesting to see how George and Lucasfilm would attempt to reconcile any issues in other future material and films, or which timeline or content would ‘win out’.

Or us fans choosing our own personal preference, or certain point of view, which appealed to our imagination or head canon.

 

Thanks to theprequelsrule, DarthStarkiller1234, Vladius, Superweapon VII, Caston, BedeHistory731, fmalover, Spartacus01, darklordoftech, NFBisms, Emre16O1, JadedSkywalker, Channel72, Sevb32, Pagan Editor, RogueLeader, screamsinthevoid and others for their recent posts and threads on the pre-PT era & EU that inspired me to attempt this scrapbook resource thread.

Thanks also to oojason for suggesting ideas on possible layouts & formatting of this ‘info thread’, the linked video of ‘Obi Wan Kenobi explains the Force to Luke’, for sources & content, fixing errors, + writing most of the ‘Intro’ & ‘Canon’ sections for me.

 
 

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I hope others will also post up any “pre-PT era” material they know of, and continue to add to this ‘living scrapbook’ resource.

And if not, hopefully this will simply be of interest for others, or may be of some use in a future “pre-PT era” scrapbook project.
 

 




 

A Thread Index:

Introduction
A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
Miscellaneous
Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
Credits
 

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

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Awesome thread BoShek !!! A couple things to add to the thread …In Star Wars official poster monthly from 1978 , the Storm Troopers were described as clones ,

" The creation of an Imperial Stormtrooper. A cloned man is one of a group of genetically identical humans, an assembly-line product. He is a thinking man, but he serves a specific purpose and no other. A Clone has no mother; only his trainers, and he accepts his fate because he believes it is inevitable. A Clone is, physically and emotionally, a normal man. He simply has no human rights and no name. He is the property of the Emperor. Soldiers fully formed in the growth tanks quickly proved impractical. Scientists found themselves the befuddled fathers of 12-stone blubbering idiots. A foetus is now removed from the hatchery after a gestation period of 60 weeks and is delivered immediately into the hands of its trainers."

A scan of said article can be found here…https://imgur.com/08OBzmC

Also , I have a Starlog magazine , issue 236 , celebrating the 20th anniversary of Star Wars in 1997 . There is an article in it speculating about the then upcoming prequel trilogy . It has some cartoony illustrations of a group of Jedi Knights all wearing Luke’s ROTJ garb ,mentions them fighting Mandalorians ,and gives a breakdown of how they thought each movie may go . Unfortunately , my copy is buried in a box somewhere in my walk in closet under a pile of old electronics . So if anyone has a copy of that issue ,it would be great to post it here with scans . I couldn’t find the article online anywhere . ( too bad the internet archive took down their collection of Starlog that was on there a few years back )

Also , as the prologue of the original novel mentioned the Journal Of The Whills , I always thought that might have been the title of Episode 1 and we would have gotten an explanation of who they were . One thing I appreciated about Rogue One was the inclusion of Chirrut and Baze as Guardians of the Whills , nodding back to that .

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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screams in the void said:

Awesome thread BoShek !!! A couple things to add to the thread …In Star Wars official poster monthly from 1978 , the Storm Troopers were described as clones ,

Thanks screams, and for the additions!

" The creation of an Imperial Stormtrooper. A cloned man is one of a group of genetically identical humans, an assembly-line product. He is a thinking man, but he serves a specific purpose and no other. A Clone has no mother; only his trainers, and he accepts his fate because he believes it is inevitable. A Clone is, physically and emotionally, a normal man. He simply has no human rights and no name. He is the property of the Emperor. Soldiers fully formed in the growth tanks quickly proved impractical. Scientists found themselves the befuddled fathers of 12-stone blubbering idiots. A foetus is now removed from the hatchery after a gestation period of 60 weeks and is delivered immediately into the hands of its trainers."

A scan of said article can be found here…https://imgur.com/08OBzmC

^ That is great. I’ve added a “Stormtrooper” category to the Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries, and their Allies just for that.

Also , I have a Starlog magazine , issue 236 , celebrating the 20th anniversary of Star Wars in 1997 . There is an article in it speculating about the then upcoming prequel trilogy . It has some cartoony illustrations of a group of Jedi Knights all wearing Luke’s ROTJ garb ,mentions them fighting Mandalorians ,and gives a breakdown of how they thought each movie may go . Unfortunately , my copy is buried in a box somewhere in my walk in closet under a pile of old electronics . So if anyone has a copy of that issue ,it would be great to post it here with scans . I couldn’t find the article online anywhere . ( too bad the internet archive took down their collection of Starlog that was on there a few years back )

^ I’d love to see that, and the speculation for the PT too. I hope someone has a scan of it and can post it here. Added it to the A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed. Thanks again.

Also , as the prologue of the original novel mentioned the Journal Of The Whills , I always thought that might have been the title of Episode 1 and we would have gotten an explanation of who they were . One thing I appreciated about Rogue One was the inclusion of Chirrut and Baze as Guardians of the Whills , nodding back to that .

^ Yes! I really enjoy those kind of nods and call backs. I think there was a manga comic too on Chirrut and Baze during their as Guardians of the Whills? I’ll have to get around to reading that soon.

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

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This is awesome. Takes me back to an innocent time haha.

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Excellent work.

Reading through all of it at once, it’s surprising how compatible a lot of it is with how the prequels turned out. The structure of how the Republic fell and became the Empire is all there. The parts that prequel fans are stubbornly attached to seem to be droid armies, the Republic being the side with the clones, and the Jedi being “blind” (dumb). Imagine how much more impactful the betrayal of the Jedi would be if it came from normal people they served alongside with and not programmed clones, or from Anakin stalking them and relying on the well-earned trust they have in him.

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Very nice!

There’s also this article— http://deckplans.00sf.com/Research/Prequel.html
Obnoxious nitpicking aside, it’s a very good resource that’s especially notable for covering obscure quotes from the pre-PT EU that are contradicted by the prequels.

EDIT: Thanks to someone else in an old thread on this site (I forget who, unfortunately) for making me aware of this resource.

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henzINNIT and Vladius: thank you for the kind words.

screams in the void: nice finds and sources! I look forward to having the time to read them over the weekend.

Gandalf the Cyan: thank you also for the kind words. What a resource that Deckplans Alliance website is!

I’ve added it to the Miscellaneous section of the thread, as Category #6, and also credited you in there too.

Looking forward to giving that site a more thorough read through soon as well.

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

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Interesting reading, and some good cross overs with the ‘Revisionist Time Traveler’ thread in a few places.

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I love Charley Lippincott, and how he proved Lucas had nothing planned out. I love the story conference for Splinter and Return of the Jedi for similar reasons. We’ve literally been lied to for decades.

This scrapbook shows the prequel itself wasn’t planned out by Lucas, except in the most vague ways. Ben and Vader duel over the volcano is pretty much all that goes back to the 70s. I love the concept that Palpatine and Yoda were not lightsaber users. The concept that anyone can use the Force, you just need training and discipline to get good at it and the Jedi are able to do that.

I like the idea Leia’s mom follows her to Alderaan and goes into hiding until she dies when she is very young. I like the idea of Vader hunting down the Jedi and the mystery that he was a dual character, a backstaber/ Vader in secret until he openly sided with The Emperor and hunted down and killed them all, no order 66. I like the original concept of the closeness of Obi-Wan with Luke’s mom, and Anakin’s jealously. Probably for the best the love triangle was dropped though the fact the one in the OT was also hamfistedly dropped and Leia made the sister, and how bad the romance scenes are in the prequel its for the best.

The part i know is correct is the original timeline of the Clone Wars being 40 or more years before Star Wars 1977. It makes sense with Ben’s age and Anakin’s age in the OT. 19 or 20 years before A New Hope as these people now call it i don’t, that makes no sense. What is Anakin in his 40’s in JEDI, Shaw doesn’t look 40.

Also we never saw the passionate Anakin who didn’t mind his farming and went on damn fool idealistic crusades. Resolving conflicts with a lightsaber and his skills as a pilot. adjudicator of justice. He never was a good friend slowly seduced to evil by political means and larger ideals. Sure we might consider Filoni’s Anakin closer to that, but i am talking about the movies.

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Posts on TFN’s Jedi Council Forums tipped me off to Bataal Bandu, a Sith belonging to a faction in opposition to Vader. Luckily, the Internet Archive has a copy of the magazine he’s mentioned in:

https://archive.org/details/IQ.Gamer.Partial.Collection/inquest.043.(1998-11)/mode/2up?view=theater

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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Thanks Mocata, and also JadedSkywalker. The Charles Lippincott blog makes for a great a read through, some truly awesome stuff on there, and I’ve only just read a little of it so far.
 

Superweapon VII said:

Posts on TFN’s Jedi Council Forums tipped me off to Bataal Bandu, a Sith belonging to a faction in opposition to Vader. Luckily, the Internet Archive has a copy of the magazine he’s mentioned in:

https://archive.org/details/IQ.Gamer.Partial.Collection/inquest.043.(1998-11)/mode/2up?view=theater

Thanks Superweapon VII! Batall Bandu is interesting enough for his own comic after reading that article.

That Internet Archive has been superb for content in here, and for much older and no longer acknowledged content on the official sites in general.

I’ve added the article, links and a couple of screenshots to the Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments section, in “The Sith” category #5.

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

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Man, awesome thread. I’ve only skimmed it so far, but am already looking forward to getting into it and reading a number pf the old novels, sourcebooks, and guides again!

My meagre contribution:

 

From Pages 24-26 of the “Star Wars: The Essential Chronology” book (2000 edition), by Kevin J. Anderson and Daniel Wallace:

^ wookieepedia page https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Essential_Chronology_(real-world_book)
 

The book is from 2000, and while it does contain events from The Phantom Menace, it obviously doesn’t contain the timelines, events and characters from the other two PT films.

The screenshot above also mentions Bail Organa, Mon Mothma, and Garm Bel Iblis of Corellia; the third Rebellion co-founder (the three main revolutionary groups coming together to work as one; the 3 signatories of Alliance to Restore The Republic), and Garm somehow being a character I often forget about.
 

A fan theory on Garm Bel Iblis maybe appearing in Andor’s 2nd season (and that we may have already seen him in the 1st season of Andor?):

www.inverse.com/entertainment/andor-luthen-fate
 

wookieepedia page for Garm Bel Iblis: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Garm_Bel_Iblis/Legends

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas