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Who Was Obi Wan Kenobi's Real Master?

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I ask this because to me it does not always seem completely clear. In The Empire  Strikes Back, his ghost tells Luke that Yoda was "the Jedi Master who instructed me". Whereas in The Phantom Menace, it is abundantly clear that Qui Gon is his master and he is his apprentice...

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Just another in a long line of inconsistencies between the prequels and the OT. They hand wave it away by saying that Master Yoda personally instructs every young padawan before they're paired off with a master.

Help back OMNO!

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I can list a bunch of people I'd refer to as "the person who taught me" my profession. My original classroom instructor, the master I apprenticed under, my experienced partner when I started my work who oversaw me.

I for one never saw a problem with this.

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I don't find the films inconsistent at all.

First, the films never directly indicate that Obi-Wan was Yoda's padwan.  What we do know is that Yoda was 'the Jedi Master that once instructed me' and that Obi-Wan was an impatient student ('Was I any different?').

However, I think the answer is that Qui-Gon was killed before Obi-Wan could complete the trials to become a Jedi, and Yoda became his surrogate Jedi instructor preparing him for the Jedi trials.  

Furthermore, because Obi-Wan sat on the Jedi Counsel, we can conclude he achieved the title of 'Master'.  Perhaps Yoda was the one whom continued his training on the way to the title of Master.

This seems like a very reasonable way to explain it, and it does nothing to harm continuity.

PD

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Seems reasonable to me.  ;)

Padme

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Arguably, defeating Maul was a trial on it's own and put Obi Wan on the fast track to master. They were bending the rules for Anakin to be trained anyway.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Since we don't know what Obi-Wan's specific trials would have been (other than facing your fears), it is hard to say if defeating Maul would have been considered.  

However, any consideration given would have been applied to him attaining the title of 'Knight' as he was still a Padwan when Qui-Gon was killed.

PD

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I think that Empire really does give me the vibe that Obi Wan was trained by Yoda in the same way that Yoda trained Luke. The way the prequels portrayed being trained by Yoda was more like being in a public school or something, and all you did was meet up with 25 other 8 year olds and practice with lightsabers. Obi Wan made it seem like he was actually trained by Yoda. 

The Person in Question

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"Was I any different when you taught me"

Yoda had a hand in training all the Padwans according to PT logic, which at least has a basis when Yoda is communicating with Obi wan's ghost. 

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Protocol Droid said:

I don't find the films inconsistent at all.

First, the films never directly indicate that Obi-Wan was Yoda's padwan.  What we do know is that Yoda was 'the Jedi Master that once instructed me' and that Obi-Wan was an impatient student ('Was I any different?').

However, I think the answer is that Qui-Gon was killed before Obi-Wan could complete the trials to become a Jedi, and Yoda became his surrogate Jedi instructor preparing him for the Jedi trials.  

Furthermore, because Obi-Wan sat on the Jedi Counsel, we can conclude he achieved the title of 'Master'.  Perhaps Yoda was the one whom continued his training on the way to the title of Master.

This seems like a very reasonable way to explain it, and it does nothing to harm continuity.

“Okay, I’m goin’, takin’ off. See ya… bye….” — Chip Douglas

“This concludes our broadcast day. Click.” — Chip Douglas

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Protocol Droid said:

I don't find the films inconsistent at all.

First, the films never directly indicate that Obi-Wan was Yoda's padwan.  What we do know is that Yoda was 'the Jedi Master that once instructed me' and that Obi-Wan was an impatient student ('Was I any different?').

However, I think the answer is that Qui-Gon was killed before Obi-Wan could complete the trials to become a Jedi, and Yoda became his surrogate Jedi instructor preparing him for the Jedi trials.  

Furthermore, because Obi-Wan sat on the Jedi Counsel, we can conclude he achieved the title of 'Master'.  Perhaps Yoda was the one whom continued his training on the way to the title of Master.

This seems like a very reasonable way to explain it, and it does nothing to harm continuity.

 ??????

Did i miss something? ;)

Padme

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Even if they can handwave it away as not technically being a direct contradiction, it still doesn't jive with the intent and tonal presentation of what is said in ESB.

Obi-wan's choice of wording implies that Yoda instructed him one on one, the same way that Luke is taught.  ESB also shows Yoda being a hermit, who meditates and lives peacefully away from civilization.  The prequels show him as essentially a public school teacher for young children, living in the big city.  It's a jarring inconsistency, and it just doesn't feel right.

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Still no contradiction.  It is fair to assume some things that we don't see on screen still took place.  We know that for Obi-Wan, Yoda was 'The Jedi Master that once instructed me.'...and Yoda did.  We know this because Obi-Wan said it and Yoda does nothing that contradicts this.  We just never saw his instruction on screen.

If you really want to get technical about it, the words used by Yoda and Obi-Wan would suggest that Yoda was not the one that trained Obi-Wan.  Follow me on this: 

Obi-Wan says 'instruction' when speaking of Yoda's involvement in his education.  Yet, when Yoda is working with Luke, he almost exclusively uses 'train' or 'training' which suggests a deeper involvement than 'instructed'.   

Also Yoda going from living in the big city to living as a hermit was explained on screen.  He had to go into hiding as his life was in extreme danger, so he had to find a place of safety.  Also, his ability to see events clearly using The Force was clouded.  He needed to find clarity through peaceful meditation and solitude...to re-center himself with The Force.  He picked a place that would provide both.

There is no contradiction... technically or otherwise. 

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hairy_hen said:

ESB also shows Yoda being a hermit, who meditates and lives peacefully away from civilization.  The prequels show him as essentially a public school teacher for young children, living in the big city.  It's a jarring inconsistency, and it just doesn't feel right.

Furthermore, ESB and ROTJ imply that the Rebellion doesn't know who Yoda is. As Senators in the Republic, the Rebel leaders would know about any Jedi who were prominant in the war.

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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Obi-Wan: I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong.

Help back OMNO!

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Obi-Wan: I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong.

That does not address the 'Did Yoda train Obi-Wan or not' topic. It just means that at one time Obi-Wan considered himself as good a trainer as Yoda.

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Furthermore, ESB and ROTJ it seem like the Rebellion doesn't know who Yoda is. As Senators in the Republic, the Rebel leaders would know about any Jedi who were prominant in the war.

How could you get this from the two film you mentioned?  What Senators or rebel leaders or anyone in the rebellion mentioned knowing or not knowing Yoda?

At what point in TESB or ROTJ did Yoda present himself to anyone other than Luke, Ben, or R2-D2 for someone to not know whom he was?

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Protocol Droid said:

Furthermore, ESB and ROTJ it seem like the Rebellion doesn't know who Yoda is. As Senators in the Republic, the Rebel leaders would know about any Jedi who were prominant in the war.

How could you get this from the two film you mentioned?  What Senators or rebel leaders or anyone in the rebellion mentioned knowing or not knowing Yoda?

At what point in TESB or ROTJ did Yoda present himself to anyone other than Luke, Ben, or R2-D2 for someone to not know whom he was?

If any of the Rebellion leaders knew Yoda, they would have mentioned to Luke that he's a little green creature who talks backwards. Luke wouldn't have been fooled by Yoda's "I'm not Yoda" act on Dagobah.

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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I get where you are coming from.

Perhaps Luke didn't tell anyone where he was going?  Even R2 didn't know.

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I have never paid as much attention to detail as you guys when watching the movies. So i never really thought about who trained obi wan. i just assumed after qui gonn died, yoda finished his training. as protocol droid said, its safe to assume certain things happened even though we didnt see them onscreen. time did pass between the PT and the OT (i dont recall how much since, again, im not good about the details). during that time, obi wan clearly could have finished his training with yoda, as they both allude to in their OT dialogue.

As for yoda as a hermit, i think PD explained that very well and i dont need to revisit that. but i do find the point raised by darklordoftech to be very curious. Is it actually the case that the rebellion doesnt know who yoda is, or is it just that he has been hidden away for so long he isnt given much consideration or thought by them? is it possible they think he is dead? 

Padme

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I think the answer is that everyone thought Yoda died with the mass hunting and killing of the Jedi, so no one would have thought to bring him up in conversation with Luke. 

Even Tarkin said to Vader 'You are all that is left of that ancient religion'

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Padme said:

I have never paid as much attention to detail as you guys when watching the movies.

 Good move.