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Yoda & Emperor PT vs OT

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The day I heard Yoda was going to be fighting with a lightsaber in Episode 2, I was shaking my head trying to picture the OT Yoda in a lightsaber fight, and the same thing happened during the filming of Episode 3 with Palpatine, I've always thought it was a shameless move to entertain, rather than to skillfully construct a story faithful to the OT without resorting to a cheap action gimmick, neither Yoda or the Emperor should have needed, or used lightsabers, it cheapens the characters and makes them far more generic, I've always pictured those two as teachers of dark and light side of the force who never felt they had to resort to that style of fighting, using their minds and mastery of pure energies of the force, adding to this was Count Dooku being able to use force lightning with further took away from the unique powers of the Emperor.

I believe McDiarmid wasn't thrilled about the lightsaber move either, but being the professional he is, did it without making a big issue out of it.

I understand the need to CG Yoda in the PT, because he does have to move around quite a bit, but I thought a more faithful way of doing this would be to take an exact replica of the original puppet, and use it for all closeup/talking scenes, then CG his movements walking from behind or a distance..ect.

I think the CG Yoda in ROTS is very well done, and at times doesn't even bother me that he is CG, but there still are times where his look and movement when compared to the puppet seem too far off, the AOTC Yoda is very inconsistant, and TPM Yoda looks completely different altogether (which they are changing for re-release thankfully).

There's no changing the CG aspect of Yoda in the PT, but hopefully using the Episode 3 model they will clean up AOTC quite a bit.


The ROTS Emperor acts far more over the top than I ever expected, and although McDiarmid face has changed a bit with age, the makeup is far more extreme...And if I may continue to bitch, I didn't totally agree with Palpatine's own lighting being directed back at him as the method for exposing his true identity, I've always liked the idea of the Dark Side decaying him over time, although it is a stretch to show an old normal looking Paplatine in ROTS, then in ESB showing a strange mutated Palpatine.

I have to think there was a more skillful method of revealing Palpatine's look.
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Yeah, palpatine's 'scarring' by lightning was a copout if I've ever seen one. I hear the book, tries to make sense of it.

And I liked it better when the greatest jedi and sith were like old kunfu masters sitting around eating rice and beans all day and passing on their wisdom from a comfy chair. The utter unconsistency I see with Yoda being 'reckless' having no 'patience' and above all using a saber constantly as if it's any use while the emp is blasting chairs and lightning at him, is sickening.

You should have seen my face when Yoda and Sidiotine were swinging away at each while balancing on that senate podium thingy, one's lightsaber being twice the size of the other. Give me a break.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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You are not alone.

:::cues X-Files Theme music:::
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One alternative to the "lightning" exposing the Emperor and fighting with lightsaber, for me would have been at the point in the movie when Mace and Co. go to arrest Palpatine, there whould have been no saber battle, Palpatine casually would have used the force to throw 2 Jedi to their deaths out the window after approaching him, then used lightning on Mace, blocking the lightning with his lightsaber Mace could have backed Palpatine into the corner, Palpatine intentionally stopping before Anakin arrived, Mace then prepares to kill Palpatine, Anakin "saves" a faking Palpatine at the last moment, Palpatine unleashes the full strengh of his lightning on Mace and while using his power his true look slowly reveals itself...

Personally I would have liked if Palpatine would have been more subtle at revealing it at a later point to Anakin after he had already turned to the darkside, while talking to Anakin about the power of the darkside and simply turning around in his chair.

As it stands, one of my kids at first viewing thought maybe the lighting itself scarred Palpatine, instead of it revealing his true identity.
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Originally posted by: Tim Lehrbach
As it stands, one of my kids at first viewing thought maybe the lighting itself scarred Palpatine, instead of it revealing his true identity.

I thought that WAS the official explanation? Not that I like it or agree with it, but that's how I understood what was going on in the movie.
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Well, I haven't been to the official site in quite some time, but I remember it always used to say that prolonged contact with the dark side of the force caused him to look like that. With some stretch of my imagination, I was able to convince myself that that could mean p;rolonged contact with his own force lightning. I would have preferred something a little more subtle, bu t that's a bit too much to ask for, I'm sure. And I posted earlier today in another thread that I too thought that Yoda and the Emperor were above all th is swordfighting crap, that they'd transcended to a higher plane. I could see them dueling like they were in Sith but only to have the Emperor throwing chairs while Yoda repelled them. Seeing Yoda jumping around and sp8inng like a top just gets kinda old after a while and completely makes a mockery of his "knowledge and defense, never for attack" line.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I've said this before in so many threads. Totally agree with everything you've all said.

War does not make one great.

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I still don't know why they couldn't arrange so that the TPM puppet looked exactly like the ESB and ROTJ puppet. How hard could that be?

And for the fighting sequences? Stop motion. There you go.

“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I think that somewere between ROTJ and TPM, Lucas forgot how to make puppets. Yoda in the OT was great. The puppet in TPM was terrible. There is no excuse for it.
As for the Emperor's look in ROTS, if you compare how Palpatine looks in AOTC, it looks like they started with the darkside corruption/rapid aging, then decided to shift to the goofy force lighting scarred him. He looks younger in ROTS to me than he did in AOTC. I don't see why they needed to have him get really old really fast for ROTS. Just have him look older still. After all, it was 25 years between ROTS and ESB. And the ESB makeup looks nothing like the ROTJ Emperor anyway. Did Lucas even bother to watch ROTJ before designing the makeup? Maybe that will be the next change. Making ROTJ emperor look like ROTS/ESB emperor.
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Maybe Lucas didn't forget how to do puppets. Maybe he wanted an excuse to make a CGI Yoda.

Lucas-"Instead of just taking the old Yoda puppet from ESB and RotJ, I tried to make a new younger-looking Yoda puppet. Really I did. But as you can see...its just unacceptable to my vision. Now just take a gander at this new improved Yoda. Much better than a stinky old puppet. Yoda can do backflips and do lightsaber fights! Isn't that what everyone wants to see? Isn't that cool? No? Well, my vision. Nyah."
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Originally posted by: Number20
As for the Emperor's look in ROTS, if you compare how Palpatine looks in AOTC, it looks like they started with the darkside corruption/rapid aging, then decided to shift to the goofy force lighting scarred him. He looks younger in ROTS to me than he did in AOTC. I don't see why they needed to have him get really old really fast for ROTS. Just have him look older still. After all, it was 25 years between ROTS and ESB. And the ESB makeup looks nothing like the ROTJ Emperor anyway. Did Lucas even bother to watch ROTJ before designing the makeup? Maybe that will be the next change. Making ROTJ emperor look like ROTS/ESB emperor.

McDiarmid has said Lucas changed his mind on the nature of Palpatine's disfigurement. That still doesn't explain the AotC/RotS inconsistency though, as they could have just as easily applied the same make up for "normal Palpatine" until he transformed into Sidious. Just because they went the bizzare scarring route didn't mean Palpatine had to look younger at the beginning of the movie. And yes, there's just something not right with the Emperor makeup for a majority of the film. I've come to accept it and it almost doesn't bother me, but it's still just not right. I will however give credit where credit is due as he looks perfect on Mustafar and during Vader's birth. But then I get mad again because if they could get it right then why couldn't they get it right the rest of the movie?
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Another incosistence I've found on ROTS is Palpatine's voice after he becomes scarred. I mean, is he going through puberty or something? Listen to when he says something like "Oooonce more the Sith will...", what was that?! And he keeps changing his voice tone through the rest of the movie...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Lucas said in the commentary that he had Ben Burtt and co. change it on purpose. He explained that he was going through some soirt of change like that. Sith-puberty. Similarly, like someone said on TFN, after he killed Mace Windu with the lightning, he sounded like he was having a sith-gasm.
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As long as the subject has shifted towards "Stupid Things the Emperor Has Said and Done", I was never able to understand what the hell he was saying as he killed Mace until I watched my DVD with closed captioning on. "ULTIMATE POWER!!!" Uh, what?! Is it just me, or is that kind of a stupid thing to say as you're killing somebody. Okay, yeah, sure, it is pretty cool power, but, hypothetically, if I were about to kill someone who had just been trying to kill me and happy as punch that I had just gotten my lacky to chop off my enemy's arm, I'd be saying something much more personal. "ULTIMATE POWER!" just seems kinda random. Kinda like screaming, "FRUIT JUICE!!!" or "I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT BUTTER!"

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Yeah, I'd be screaming 'fu*k you, Windu!! How d'ya like them apples....BITCH!!'

War does not make one great.

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At that point, Palpatine was simply thrilled that his meticulous plan was falling into place perfectly. His "POWER! UN-LIM-I-TED POWER!" is completely justified.
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I wish you'd elaborate on that because it still makes little to no sense to me. I mean, it's not as if his own power is a surprise to him. Hell, he's been using it for the past seven minutes. And, yes, his plan was falling into place. Still kinda hard to justify that particular line, though.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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He was killing one of the primary people who had stood in his way for years, using power, not only to his fullest extent, but was not held back anymore by his need to keep his force powers hidden. I don't see what's so hard to understand.
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It simply doesn't seem natural to me. It doesn't seem to go with the moment. Like YIYF said, I'd be saying something much more insulting and derogatory. Even the cheesy, overacted, "NO! NO! NO! You will die!" makes much, much more sense given the context.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I think Lucas watches anime. Yeah, I do. he said so in some biography I read about him I think, and in a lot of anime the characters with special powers yell out some words for no reason, like "Super Destructo beam Go!!!!" It's a cheezy over the top thing that makes little sense to do, but I guess it's to hype themselvse up for the attack? I don't have major problems with it, but can sympathize on some level with those who view it as out of character. If he had said something like that in RotJ while blasting Luke during that serious moment, the climax, the live or die moment (torturing someone is serious isn't it?) that would seem absurd, even when tom cruise does it. And we all know they're both crazy...

http://tcruiseko.ytmnd.com/
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Hmm. Well, is Unlimited Power or Ultimate Power or whatever the hell it is the name of the attack? I mean, I'm an anime fan myself, and I know that characters often shout out the name of attacks before using them (as well as in Street Fighter...), so that's not entirely random.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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All I really have to say regarding Yoda and the Emperor fighting with lightsabres is: Ditto. Should have never happened. Cheapens the characters and the trilogy as a whole.

When Yoda walks in on Dooku trashing Obiwan and Anakin, he should have just held him a few feet off the floor with the Force. He could have swung his lightsabre to his dark side heart's content. Kind of like how Lone Starr defeated Dark Helmet.

Xhonzi

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

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"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!