The Jedi (as an Order of Knights, Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)

 
(info on individual Jedi can be found in the ‘Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies’ category below)

‘The Official Star Wars Technical Journal’ (1995), on Page 75 - states the Jedi numbered in their ‘hundreds of thousands’:-

^ wookieepedia page for the 1995 OSWTJ book: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Official_Star_Wars_Technical_Journal
 

The full text can also be found on Pages 8, 9, & 10 of ‘A Brief History of The Empire’, in the ‘Starlog - Star Wars Technical Journal, Vol 02 (Imperial Forces)’ book, by Shane Johnson, which can be seen here, via Scribd, or in abridged ‘text only’ form, below:

The 1995 ‘Children Of The Jedi’ novel, by Barbara Hambly, states the following:

^ from the wookieepedia page for the COTJ: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Children_of_the_Jedi_(novel)#Continuity
 

A screenshot from Chapter 12 of the 1995 ‘Children Of The Jedi’ book:

 
^ there is more info on Jedi having relationships, marriages, and children etc, in the ‘A few OT•com threads index’ further below.

My personal take on the Jedi; compiled from the Original Trilogy films, novelizations, radio plays, and early pre-PT era materials:

The Jedi Order is an ancient peacekeeping organization unified by its belief and observance of the Force, specifically the light side. For over a thousand generations the Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic, defending and protecting the people of it, and became the most well known of the various groups that relied on the Force for their power.

The Jedi lived like many others did in the galaxy; having attachments; family ties, marriage, relationships, and children. And anyone wishing to become a Jedi themselves, whether young or old, could do so as long as they truly understood the deep commitment and sacrifice being a Jedi entailed. That only those with unwavering trust and true belief in the Force, to be able to feel the Force around you - wherever you are - or situation you find yourself in, was central to being a Jedi. An understanding that a Jedi’s strength flows from the Force itself, to be calm and at peace whenever possible. Yet to also be weary of the quicker, easy and more seductive path; of anger, fear and aggression… which led to the all-consuming dark side of the Force.

Led by a series of Jedi Councils, the Order grew over the many millennia despite facing many trials. Most often these threats were engineered by the Sith, the most prominent group of Force sensitives who wielded the dark side of the Force.

However, less than two decades after the end of the devastating Clone Wars (35BBY)… with the Jedi and the Republic narrowly emerging victorious after many years of galaxy-wide conflicts, that only not cost the lives of billions, but decimated countless worlds and systems, and also greatly reduced the numbers of Jedi, both the Old Republic and the Jedi Order were no more…
 

Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the Republic, and the massive organs of commerce and the avaricious military complex, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic. Yet the time the third term came along, he had corrupted so much of the Senate that they made him Emperor for the rest of his life. Soon after, Palpatine declared the Old Republic over, and announced the formation of new Galactic Empire, under his control, was to replace it.

It was impossible and too late for the Senate to do anything. Palpatine had long manipulated a great many things; in fact, it was he who secretly started the corruption & bureaucracy that had run amok since the Clone Wars, and had carefully manipulated the Senate into doing his bidding because he was seemingly the only one who really had any power to prevent the Republic from deteriorating further. The manipulation was so large there was no other way to get things done; he had paid off Senators to be loyal to him, installed key people in the bureaucracy who were working for him, and were paid by the corporations.

When he became Emperor, the half of the Senate still loyal to the ideals of the Old Republic reacted strongly against the whole thing. There was a rebellion in terms of the Senate against the Emperor; they tried to oust him legally and have him impeached. But many of the Senators who were fighting the Emperor at that time mysteriously died. The Jedi Knights were alerted immediately and they rallied to the Senate’s side. But Palpatine appeared to be one step ahead yet again, and when the Jedi finally rallied and tried to restore order, they were betrayed and eventually killed by Darth Vader and elite Imperial forces.
 

When the Jedi had tried to restore order, Darth Vader was still one of the Jedi. Vader would catch the Jedi off-guard, having lured many into traps, and then killing them without the Jedi Order realizing what was happening. They trusted him and didn’t realize he was the traitor who was decimating their ranks. The Emperor had also a new elite Imperial military he had amassed in secret with the backing of the military complex and corporations; an army of clone stormtroopers. The same type of clones that had ravaged the galaxy and the Republic had fought against in the Clone Wars. The Jedi were so outnumbered that they fled but were tracked down. They tried to regroup, but they were eventually massacred by elite Imperial forces led by Vader.

The last remaining few Jedi then went into exile and hiding, but over time nearly all were hunted down by Vader. Hope only remained in the form of a small number of systems and even smaller number of brave people scattered throughout the galaxy who rebelled at these events; those who saw through the Emperor’s scheming and stood against his reign of oppression, fascism and terror. Declaring themselves opposed to the Empire they began the long battle to try and restore the Old Republic.

Kenobi, Vader’s old tutor and master, who had defeated the Dark Lord years prior, waited patiently in hiding along with Master Yoda, for the right time to help the fledging Rebellion defeat Vader, the Emperor, and the Empire… and for the Jedi to return.

^ click on the ‘Expand’ button above to view the text.

^ A screenshot of the ‘Jedi Knights & Jedi Master’ sections of ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994):-

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

^ From the same ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994), on ‘The Jedi Code’ & ‘Jedi Holocrons’:-

^ and from the same ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994), on ‘The Force’:-

‘Star Wars Prequels Were Mapped Out By George Lucas & Lawrence Kasdan In 1981: Exclusive Excerpt From The Making Of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi’

^ a 2013 article at the Huffington Post, promoting JW Rinzler’s ‘Making Of Return Of The Jedi’ book.
 

As the screenshot below highlights, the following conversation is from the July 1981 story conference for “Revenge of the Jedi”, covering a number of topics, including the Force:

Obi Wan Kenobi describes The Force to Luke, and also what happened to Luke’s father:

^ A screenshot from Chapter 5 of the 1976 novelization of Star Wars.

wookieepedia page for the 1976 novelization: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_A_New_Hope_(novelization)

Imagine, if you will… a world without love. For the Jedi - this was made so for the Prequel films. Another time, another galaxy…
 

^ An official promotional poster for Episode II: Attack Of The Clones - “A Jedi shall not know anger, nor hatred, nor love”.

A few OT•com threads that feature some comprehensive information on the more widely known facets of Pre-Prequel era lore:

1. Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels
2. Putting The Original-Original Trilogy’s Prequel Story together
3. The Prequels as Envisioned by the (Pre-PT) Expanded Universe
4. What if The Prequels were based on the Pre-PT EU and were more “OT Accurate”
5. Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue (+ character ages + when certain events take place)
6. What did you think the Clone Wars were gonna be?
7. The Jedi Purge | a general discussion
8. Were the Jedi supposed to not be allowed to get married, have children or any possessions when the OT was made?
9. On Jedi and Attachment
10. At what point did Tatooine robes become Jedi uniforms?
11. OT lightsaber colours; (and some waffling on about the various colours used across the OT & Expanded Universe)
12. Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the Prequels? Or was it added later in the EU?
13. What Luke’s father and Darth Vader would have been like had Lucas kept them as separate characters?
14. Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… (a ‘50+ issues’ list)

 
• Some OT film drafts and character threads for the OT era can be found in An Index for Original Trilogy Discussion

• Some EU material covering the Pre-Prequel era (before the PT films) can be found in An Index for the Expanded Universe
 

• More threads on the Jedi (and the Force) can be found in the An Index of Relevant Threads category.

A Thread Index:

• Introduction
• A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
• Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
• Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
• The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
• Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
• Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
• Miscellaneous
• Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
• A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
• Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
• Credits
 

Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments

An Index of content for this post:

1. The first Prequel era story (from 1979, with Obi Wan Kenobi)
2. Coruscant / Had Abbadon
3. The Clone Wars being Jedi vs Mandalorians - and more (‘The Star Wars Trilogy Scrapbook: The Galactic Empire’ - 1997)
4. Mandalore
5. The Sith
6. The Dark Worlds
7. The Republic
8. The Empire (the birth of the Empire + how they came about and their rise to power)
9. The Rebellion (early protests and organisations against the Empire, Palpatine and their backers + enablers)
10. “A Call To Reason” - The Farlander Papers : The Rebellion attempting to recruit to its ranks (1993 X-Wing game)
11. “A Call To Reason” - The Farlander Papers : some pages from Mon Mothma’s manifesto (1993 X-Wing game)
     

^ If anyone knows of any other relevant info on ‘Settings, Planets & Systems’ etc for the pre-Prequel era, please post them up.

1. The first Prequel era story (from 1979)

The FIRST Star Wars Prequel-Era Story - 3+ minute video from Star Wars Explained (2021)

Video Description: ‘Today we’re jumping back to 1979 and the very first story told that took place in the prequel era of Star Wars. A tale all about Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars issue 24, back when the writers and artists had no idea what that period of time would look like.’
 

more on the Star Wars #24 comic (aka ‘Silent Drifting’):

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_(1977)_24
 

Plot Summary:

'After Han Solo skillfully pilots the Millennium Falcon to destroy two TIE fighters, Princess Leia mentions that Jedi pilots developed that same maneuver. She recounts one particular event involving Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Kenobi, traveling as a passenger on a pleasure cruiser, is notified by Captain Quasar that Merson pirates have been spotted in the Merson asteroid belt. The attacking ships are quickly destroyed, but Obi-Wan suspects the Mersons to have been lured by a signal from within the cruiser. The other passengers immediately accuse Augustus Tryll, a known criminal, of working with the Mersons, but Kenobi is not as quick to judge without proof.’
 

Continuity

'The framing story takes place after the events of Star Wars (1977) 15, according to the notation on the first page. Aside from the first four pages and the last half page, the entire story in this issue is a flashback to a time when Obi-Wan Kenobi was an active Jedi Knight in the Galactic Republic. This is the first published story to take place in the Galactic Republic era.

One of the letters in this issue’s letters page criticizes the comic series for making Luke and Leia “… act more like young brother and sister than sweethearts.” Although the creators of the book didn’t know this at the time, four years later Return of the Jedi would reveal that they were indeed siblings.’

2. Coruscant / Had Abbadon

Coruscant’s backstory BEFORE THE PREQUELS! - 8 minute video from EckhartsLadder (2020)

Video Description: ‘We cover the fascinating backstory of Coruscant from before the Star Wars Prequels released on today’s Star Wars Legends lore video!’

wookieepedia page for Coruscant: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Coruscant/Legends

wookieepedia page for Had Abbadon: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Had_Abbadon/Legends (original name of the Capital)

^ Early concept art for Had Abbadon with two orbiting Death Stars by Ralph McQuarrie (+ ROTJ early story ideas)

3. The Clone Wars being Jedi vs Mandalorians

and the Emperor taking over the Republic years after the end of the Clone Wars

 
^ a screenshot from the 1997 ‘The Star Wars Trilogy Scrapbook: The Galactic Empire’:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Trilogy_Scrapbook:_The_Galactic_Empire

4. Mandalore

 
“Battle for Mandalore” - 1992 story by Chris Hind:

"Ten soldiers wearing the distinctive gray uniforms of the Republican Army and a half-dozen black-clad Jedi Knights advance cautiously through the deserted, rubble-choked streets of Mandalore. Black smoke hangs heavily in the air. Army Lieutenant Weirs matches strides with Voli Quana, Jedi mistress.

‘Your soldiers fight with remarkable order,’ Quana says, ‘even in these chaotic conditions.’
‘The troops are obeying orders which I haven’t even given yet,’ Weirs responds, ‘It’s you, isn’t it? Doing something to their minds–to all our minds–to keep us disciplined and in high morale. That’s why you look so haggard.’
‘The governor is still in the city,’ Quana says, ‘but he is preparing to escape in a private spacecraft. He must be tried for crimes against the Republic. I am telepathically relaying all your orders so we may reach him in time. And do not concern yourself with my health, for my ally is the Fo…’ Quana stops, covering her eyes with a hand.
‘What’s wrong?’ Weirs asks.
‘Halt your troops Lieutenant. I sense…’

Suddenly a loud blast and the flash of a bright blue beam. An ambush! Weirs’ chest explodes, and his body spins into an alley. Quana’s amber-bladed lightsaber is in her hand, ignited, in time to deflect a second blast aimed at her. In the next second, dozens of blue and red blaster bolts intersect the smoky streets, ionizing the air and sending chunks of formex flying with each near miss. The FINAL BATTLE FOR MANDALORE BEGINS!"

^ from Challenge Magazine #58, Page 68.
 

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_for_Mandalore

5. The Sith

The only living Sith at this pre-PT era was Darth Vader himself - “The Dark Lord of The Sith”.

^ see the ‘Anakin / Darth Vader’ section of ‘Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies’

For more on The Sith (and Jedi) ‘origin’ type stories, the ‘Tales Of The Jedi’ comics (1993-98) are a most useful resource:-

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Tales_of_the_Jedi_(comic_series)

OriginalTrilogy•com thread for the TOTJ comics: Tales Of The Jedi | 1993-1998 comic book series | a general discussion thread
 

More information on The Sith (and Jedi) stories can be found in the ‘Dark Empire’ comics (1991-95):-

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Dark_Empire_Trilogy (especially “Empire’s End”)

OriginalTrilogy•com thread for the DE comics: Dark Empire trilogy | 1991-1995 EU comic series | a general discussion thread

^ 1978 General Mills Star Wars #15 Darth Vader collectible card - at the TCDB•com database

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Customizable_Card_Game

Superweapon VII said:

Vladius said:

I do think Palpatine was intended to be a Sith, though. Once the Sith and the concept of Sith Lords existed, I’m fairly certain that Vader and Palpatine were integrated into it.

Little doubt this is what Lucas intended, but it’s a factoid he apparently kept close to his chest, because Palpatine wasn’t characterized as a Sith in the pre-1999 EU. Darth Vader was characterized as THE Dark Lord of the Sith during the time of the Empire, and as per Tales of the Jedi, only the reigning Sith lord held the “Dark Lord” title. And Empire’s End excluded Palpatine from the Sith hierarchy.

The Sith spirits were gracious enough to make Palpatine an honorary Dark Lord in lieu of Vader, but that Vader had a throne set up for him in their mausoleum while Palpatine didn’t speaks volumes.

^ All credit and thanks to Superweapon VII for the above post, and also this below:

In the Inquest gaming magazine, issue 43 (November 1998), there is a reference to official Star Wars CCG, and a new ‘Dark Side’ variant game to play, along with some backstory of other Sith being in opposition to Dark Vader.

The magazine can be read here: the article is titled “The Sith Element - A Third Darker Side Invades The CCG”, on Pages 52-57 of the magazine itself (and Pages 54-58 of the archive link below):

https://archive.org/details/IQ.Gamer.Partial.Collection/inquest.043.(1998-11)/mode/1up?view=theater
 

some screenshots:

 
^ wookieepedia page for Bataal Bandu: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Bataal_Bandu

In the 1976 novelization of Star Wars (1977), Darth Vader is described as being a Sith on a number of occasions:

 
Yet Palpatine in the Prologue in the 1976 Star Wars novelization, is described as being a weak and manipulated politician; “controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office”. Far from the powerful force-using, cunning and manipulative individual seen in the later two Original Trilogy films.

Also, Palpatine was not mentioned as being a Sith in the films - or any other official Lucasfilm material - until 2000 (see the ‘Palpatine’ section in the ‘Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies’ category).

^ wookieepedia page Star Wars novelization: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_A_New_Hope_(novelization)

6. The Dark Worlds

The Dark Worlds were the antagonists of the Clone Wars and seemed to be a Confederacy of Clone Masters, geneticists, Bpfasshi Dark Jedi, and Mandalorians - led by the most powerful clone master named Atha Prime (see the ‘Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies’ category).

‘The so-called “Dark Worlds” was an Unknown Regions principality, located at the furthest reaches of the galaxy, which the genetic terrorist Zeta Magnus had claimed as his personal kingdom. Magnus carved out his kingdom using the followers and slaves he had gathered during his journey around the galaxy. It was composed of a group of planets ruled by Magnus, who considered the Chiss Ascendancy, the Ssi-ruuvi Imperium, the Vagaari, an Ebruchi clan, and the Rhandite nihilists as his neighbours. The terrorist’s seat of power was the Rennek palace, deep within the “Dark Worlds.” At some point in time before the Clone Wars, the Rhandite nihilists would “bless” these worlds.’

^ from The Dark Worlds wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Worlds

The Confederacy of Dark Worlds required large numbers of clone warriors to fight the Jedi and Republic, but these clones were grown too quickly by the impatient Clonemasters in Spaarti Cloning Cylinders - many started to show signs of going insane. This was something the Clonemasters had great difficulty controlling, but soon learnt that their insane clones could still ravage the Republic when dropped deep behind Republic lines, and then be left to fight anyone who came across their path.

wookieepedia page for Spaarti cloning cylinders: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Spaarti_cloning_cylinder

7. The Republic

An overview of the Republic:

‘The development of the Republic, its transformation into the Empire, and the fall of the Jedi, and just what the details of the original history were at the time of the first film.’
 

‘The Republic Revolution’ - article at The Secret History Of Star Wars website.
 

A screenshot of the article (just in case the superb TSHoSW website ever goes down):

^ A screenshot on ‘The Old Republic’ section of the ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994):

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

Also see Cat. #10 & #11 below on Mon Mothma’s “A Call To Reason” manifesto and information from ‘The Farlander Papers’.

8. The Empire

 
(the birth of The Empire; how they came about, and then rose to power)

From ‘The Making Of Star Wars’ book by JW Rinzler, on Page 351:

Also see ‘The Jedi (as an Order of Knights, Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)’ category for more info on The Empire.

^ A screenshot on ‘The Empire’ section of the ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994):

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

Also see Cat. #10 & #11 below on Mon Mothma’s “A Call To Reason” manifesto and information from ‘The Farlander Papers’.

9. The Rebellion

 
(+ early protests and organisations against the Empire, Palpatine and their corrupt backers)

From ‘The Making Of Star Wars’ book by JW Rinzler, on Page 352:

^ A screenshot of the ‘Rebel Alliance’ section of the ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994):

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

^ from Page 6 of the 1994 ‘Rebel Alliance Sourcebook’ (2nd edition)

wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Rebel_Alliance_Sourcebook_(Second_Edition)

Also see Cat. #10 & #11 below on Mon Mothma’s “A Call To Reason” manifesto and information from ‘The Farlander Papers’.

10. “A Call To Reason” : The Farlander Papers (Part 1)

The Rebellion attempting to recruit more people to its ranks:

Sideburns of BoShek said:
 

“The Farlander Papers” : from the 1993 X-Wing game : a mission & companion book that came with the game

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Farlander_Papers
 

Mon Mothma speaks of the “decades of peace” between the end of the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire, with Palpatine being elected President during the war, but not declaring himself Emperor and exterminating the Jedi, until much later.

Some pages relevant to the “pre-Prequels” story at the time:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All 98 pages of ‘The Farlander Papers’ can be seen here: https://archive.org/details/pdfy-52fQeoxh9CohzbEk/page/n67/mode/2up

11. “A Call To Reason” : The Farlander Papers (Part 2)

some pages from Mon Mothma’s manifesto-type document
 

(and also part of ‘The Farlander Papers’, from the 1993 X-Wing game)

Sideburns of BoShek said:
 

“A Call To Reason” : some pages from Mon Mothma’s manifesto-type document used to try and attract people to the Rebellion (and part of ‘The Farlander Papers’):
 

 

 

 

 

 

All 98 pages of ‘The Farlander Papers’ can be seen here: https://archive.org/details/pdfy-52fQeoxh9CohzbEk/page/n67/mode/2up

A Thread Index:

• Introduction
• A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
• Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
• Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
• The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
• Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
• Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
• Miscellaneous
• Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
• A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
• Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
• Credits
 

Timelines: Story Events and Alterations

Index of Timelines in this post:

1. The Clone Wars; a brief overview on the pre-PT era
2. The Clone Wars; a couple of pre-PT era ‘overview’ type videos from Corey’s Datapad & Geetsly’s
3. The time period before 1999 (2021) - video from Spector Creative
4. “Time Line Of Important Events In The Star Wars Galaxy” (1994) ‘A Guide to the Star Wars Universe’ book
5. “1994 LucasArts Star Wars Screen Entertainment CD-ROM” + George Lucas quotes on when the Prequels would be set
6. “Important Events In The History Of Star Wars” - Official Star Wars Souvenir Annual 1998 - a timeline
7. “Star Wars Timeline from 1997”, for the ‘Dark Force Rising’ comics
8. “Star Wars Timeline” (1994) - Star Wars Insider #23
9. “The Star Wars Timeline Gold” (2018) - by Nathan P Butler
10. “A complete Star Wars Legends Timeline” (2021) - novels, comics, and games
11. Another quality resource website: www.starwarstimeline•net
12. A Current Canon Timeline (2023) - in both video and infographic form (for comparison / sake of completion)
     

^ If anyone knows of any other relevant Timelines, dates of note, or calendars etc for the pre-Prequel era, please post them up.
 
 

a quick note:

Whilst searching for content on the pre-PT era a number of YouTubers, article journalists, and some Prequel fans online appear to claim original and early EU writers “got it wrong”, “got a lot wrong” or “got so much wrong”, when discussing pre-PT era lore. Along with some negative judgments or placing reduced value on those works… simply because timelines and events are different - or claims that pre-PT era material is somehow “lesser” for it - because it does not fit with “George’s vision”.

As confirmed by EU creatives from the time, it was Lucasfilm themselves who provided the earlier original timeline of the Clone Wars (circa 35BBY). George then shaving 10-20 years off the timeline years later, making Anakin and Obi-Wan 10-20 years younger than originally supposed to be, for the PT films. Any “fault” or issue is with George & Lucasfilm for those alterations, leading to such dissonance with the previously established timeline, stories and characters, in their officially released material.

In an interview with early EU architect and writer Timothy Zahn, in February of 2000, with TFn’s Chris Knight:

“The two guidelines I was given at the beginning were: I was to start three to five years after ROTJ, and I could use any character who had not been killed off in the movies. It was very, very open. When I submitted the outline, we found a few other walls: I could not do detailed references to the Clone Wars era. I had a sort of history of the Clone Wars set up because at that time I didn’t know he (George Lucas) was going to go back and do more movies, so I thought that was opened at length as well, but it turned out it wasn’t. Various other things: Joruus C’baoth was originally an insane clone of Obi-Wan Kenobi and they wouldn’t let me do that. And I would run into minor walls here and there, both in the outline and in the final manuscript. But it was more a matter of, instead of getting what I had to do, they would let me do what I wanted unless it ran into some territory they didn’t want me dealing with, or contradicted something that they saw in the movies, though I could sometimes argue my way out of those.”

and

“They would not give me a Clone Wars date until I was mostly done with book two (“Dark Force Rising”; released in 1992). The first book was already at the printers and they actually moved it back about fifteen years earlier than I had set it. As a result, the various numbers don’t add up. When it talks about Pellaeon’s age, they don’t add up because there’s this fifteen-year difference. They might have actually set it back a bit further when they set on “The Phantom Menace”. So the timeline doesn’t quite match, but nothing else I think finally contradicts what I’ve done.”

 
^ a screenshot of the above sections of the 2000 interview with Timothy Zahn:

Enough of the jibba-jabba! Get on with it!

1. The Clone Wars; a brief overview on the ‘pre-PT era’:

The Old Republic was a Republic of Legend - greater than distance or time. For a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the Dark Times, before the Prequels Empire.

Despite the PT-era being “off limits” to writers and creatives for many years before the release of the Prequel Trilogy films, a number of intriguing and captivating references appeared in official Lucasfilm material over the years referencing the era, adding more brush strokes to an already alluring portrait for what was the Clone Wars. As well as the years-later Jedi Purge, overseen by the Dark Lord of The Sith, himself once a Jedi, named Darth Vader…
 

The following abridged OP/Ed describes all this far better than I ever could - also paying homage to some of those early EU creatives:
 

[Op/Ed] ‘The Prequel Era Before the Prequel Trilogy’ - at https://starwars.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000003637541

 
"Although we never get a complete picture of what the Clone Wars were like, Timothy Zahn suggested in his Thrawn Trilogy that it was a war between the Jedi and a group only referred to as the clonemasters, who used Spaarti cloning cylinders to produce an army of clones to fight against the Republic, much like Thrawn’s clone army in The Last Command. It even resulted in some cloned Jedi like Joruus C’baoth, who turned out to be quite mad.

The original Clone Wars were suggested to have ended before the fall of the Jedi, about when Obi-Wan defeated geneticist Atha Prime, the “ruler of the dark worlds,” who was described as the architect of the war. However, the idea of Palpatine, a senator, seizing power and luring Anakin to the dark side and the Empire was established by then, as was Obi-Wan’s epic duel with Anakin.

As for the battle droids we’re used to seeing nowadays, Kathy Tyers’ Truce at Bakura novel featured the Ssi-ruuvi Imperium, a group of aliens who Emperor Palpatine sought to contact out of interest in their droid army, which the book mentions was something Palpatine never encountered before.

(As a fun aside, Kevin J. Anderson’s Jedi Academy Trilogy introduced an Imperial Remnant using MT-ATs, spider-like walkers that looked something like what the Separatists or Umbarans would’ve used during the Clone Wars).

Boba Fett was different, too. The Dark Empire comics revealed that Fett was an ex-Stormtrooper who left the Empire but came to an “understanding” with Darth Vader so he wouldn’t be held accountable.

Obviously, all this changed once the prequel trilogy came out, the biggest difference being that the Clone Wars turned out to be fought between a Republic clone army and a Separatist droid army. Boba Fett wasn’t a stormtrooper but the clone of Jango Fett, who served as the template for the Kaminoans (the “clonemasters” as it were). And Anakin, Padmé, and Obi-Wan are much different than what those two images suggest.

Of course, Lucas did include some stuff from what the early EU established, such as Coruscant being the capital of the Republic. He even lifted the idea that Jedi could block Force lightning with their lightsaber AOTC from Dark Force Rising.

I bring all this up because it’s super fascinating to me. I salute those writers who were brave enough to throw out some ideas about what things were like “before the Dark Times,” and I like how the information was doled out sparingly and vaguely. The prequel era was kept a mystery, which is kind of a novel thought given how saturated the era is nowadays.

If there’s any older fans out there who remember this time before the prequels, I’m curious if you could attest to what it was like during this time? Was the speculation more or less what the EU writers were hinting at? How shocking was it when these changes were made?

If you can’t remember a time without the prequel trilogy, what do you think of these original details? Do you prefer what the prequels established over these older ideas?"
 

^ by Mando With No Name: 31/07/22. Full version (with images): https://starwars.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000003637541

2. The Clone Wars - an overview of the Timeline:

The Original Clone Wars - Clone Assault on the Republic! | SW Legends Lore - 13 minute video from Corey’s Datapad (2019)

Video Description: ‘The Prequels really fleshed out the Clone Wars, but what did people think the Clone Wars were before that?’

Some more on The Clone Wars Timeline:

What the Clone Wars was Originally SUPPOSED To Look Like - 9 minute video from Geetsly’s (2021)

Video Description: “You fought in the Clone Wars?”

The Original Clone Wars Were Way Different - a 12 minute vidoe from Corey’s Datapad (2024)

Video Description: ‘When the Prequels came around, the Clone Wars had been off limits for the Expanded Universe for a while to tell stories in directly, but that hadn’t stopped a lot of background lore from being built up. This caused a few problems with recollections about who was fighting whom, and even when exactly the wars were.’
 

^ An otherwise good video providing a lot of information and insight. Although it does not feature details provided by the official Sourcebooks, Technical Journals, and Guides available at the time. It also doesn’t cover Lucasfilm informing authors of a different timeline (and other details) to that actually used by George years later for his PT films.

3. The time period before 1999:

What it was like growing up before the STAR WARS Prequels; when getting Episode One was just a dream - 11 minute video from Spector Creative (2021)

Video Description: ‘Scott Toy Guru Neitlich from Spector Creative talks about what it was like growing up before there were more Star Wars movies and all of the bread crumbs in the Original Trilogy that hinted at what the Prequels could have been like…’

4. “A Guide to the Star Wars Universe, Second Edition, Revised and Expanded” book (1994):

^ A screenshot compilation of ‘A Timeline Of Important Events In The Star Wars Galaxy’ section of ‘A Guide To The Star Wars Universe’ book, 2nd edition (1994), by Bill Slavicsek:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

5. ‘1994 LucasArts Star Wars Screen Entertainment CD-ROM’ - with quotes from George:

George Lucas himself stated in the ‘1994 LucasArts Star Wars Screen Entertainment CD-ROM’ Screensaver:

“The STAR WARS saga actually begins 40 years before Luke has the pivotal meeting with Obi Wan that sends him down the path to his destiny. The first three episodes begin with the friendship of a young Ben Kenobi and Luke’s father, Anakin Skywalker.”

^ a screenshot of the above ‘1994 LucasArts Star Wars Screen Entertainment CD-ROM’ - with George Lucas’ quotes:
 

 
^ from ‘FWS Topics: The Lost Star Wars Prequels’ article at the Future War Stories blog; in ‘The Crawl from the 1994 LucasArts Star Wars Screen Entertainment CD-ROM’ category; a quality article & resource that also features a chronology of GFFA history.

6 . ‘Important Events In The History Of Star Wars’ - a Timeline:

from the ‘Official Star Wars Souvenir Annual 1998’

 
There were 17 years between the end of Clone Wars and Anakin becoming Darth Vader:
 

 
^ (written here below too, as the dark text on dark background in the images above can be difficult to read):
 

35 BSW4:

“End of the Clone Wars, a violent conflict in which the Jedi Knights fight to defend the Old Republic. Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker emerge as heroes.”

29 BSW4:

“Fall of the Republic. A dark period when corruption and injustice sweep through the Republic. Senator Palpatine rises to power.”

^ It’s also noted as the date of birth for Han Solo.

18 BSW4:

“Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader; the Empire is formed, with Palpatine as Emperor. The first stirrings of rebellion begin.”

^ it also notes that the birth of Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa are in this year (18 BSW4).

(BSW4 = ‘Before Star Wars Episode IV’ / Battle Of Yavin)

7. “Star Wars Timeline from 1994” - from Star Wars Insider #23:

“Star Wars Timeline from 1994”, from Star Wars Insider #23:
 

8. “Star Wars Timeline from 1997” - for the ‘Dark Force Rising’ comics:

wookieepedia page for ‘Dark Force Rising’ (comics): https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Force_Rising_(comics)

9. The Star Wars Timeline Gold - by Nathan P Butler:

https://starwarsfanworks.com/timeline

The Star Wars Timeline Gold by Nathan P Butler: 5 downloadable pdf files covering different aspects of the Star Wars Timeline

https://starwarsfanworks.com/timeline (final edition was in 2018)
 

1. Story Group Canon Timeline
2. Legends Timeline, Vol. 1 (Pre-ANH, Minus Clone Wars)
3. Legends Timeline, Vol. 2 (ANH and Beyond)
4. Legends Clone Wars Supplement
5. Appendices

^ The Legends Timeline Vol. 2 is relevant here; there are 426 pages of the Timeline just to get to 100BBY. Comprehensive.

10. A complete Star Wars Legends Timeline : novels, comics, and games:

(click on the imgur link to enlarge further)
 

^ from www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/srpc8d/just_found_this_complete_star_wars_legends

11. Another quality resource website: www.StarWarsTimeline•net

A very useful and interesting resource website, especially for pre-PT lore era:

^ www.starwarstimeline.net - by Joe Bongiorno
 

A category on the West End Games section of the above website, on the awesome WEG Sourcebooks and Supplements:

www.starwarstimeline.net/Westendgames.htm

And for comparison / sake of completion; the current Canon Timeline - in video and infographic format:
 

12. A Star Wars: The Complete Canon Timeline (2023)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvL68ZwWIHQ - a 98 minute youtube video, by Star Wars Explained.
 

^ The blurb: ‘This is the entire history of the Star Wars canon as of May 4, 2023. The Star Wars films, TV shows, books, comics, video games, and more all summarized into the most important moments in galactic history!’

0:00 - Early History
6:54 - The High Republic
16:34 - Fall of the Jedi
24:34 - The Clone Wars
37:20 - Reign of the Empire
57:10 - Age of Rebellion
1:15:21 - The New Republic
1:24:04 - Rise of the First Order
1:34:02 - Frequently Asked Questions

wookiepedia page for The Clone Wars (canon; 22-19 BBY): https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Clone_Wars

‘Star Wars Canon Timeline (as of September 2023) by Abraham2204, on DeviantArt’ (a useful Canon infographic):
 

 
^ www.deviantart.com/abraham2204/art/Star-Wars-Canon-Timeline-As-of-September-2023-922827271 (click on image to enlarge)

A Thread Index:

• Introduction
• A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
• Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
• Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
• The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
• Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
• Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
• Miscellaneous
• Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
• A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
• Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
• Credits
 

A quick note on ‘canon’ (yep, I know)…

Yep, I’d skip past this category as well. If you know of the various canon introductions & rules, skip ahead to the next category.

But if you do read this category… you’ll see the links to a top collection of ‘Star Wars Insiders’ and ‘Lucasfilm Fan Club Magazines’!

Lucas Licensing’s Allan Kausch & Sue Rostoni on the relationship between Lucas’ creations and other creatives’ work (in 1994):

“Gospel, or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelizations. These works spin out of George Lucas’ original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we’ve read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history—with many off-shoots, variations and tangents—like any other well-developed mythology.”

 
^ from the “Star Wars Publications Timeline: Q & A”. Star Wars Insider #23 - Page 18 (1994). Available at the Archive link below:

https://archive.org/details/starwarsinsider_1_to_153_plus_specials/Star Wars Insider 023 (1994)

^ as well as the first 153 issues of ‘Star Wars Insider’ - and a number of ‘Official Lucasfilm Fan Club Magazines’ too.👍

Lucasfilm’s own 5-Tier Canon Ratings (prior to the infamous Lucasfilm canon reconstruction in April 2014):-

 
Regarding the Holocron Database created in early 2000 mentioned below, Leland Chee (Keeper of the Holocron) said in 2012:

“What sets Star Wars apart from other franchises is that we develop a singular continuity across all forms of media, whether it be the films, TV series, video games, novels and comics, and the Holocron is a key component to Lucasfilm being able to do this.” The Holocron was divided into five levels of canon (in order of precedence)."

^ from the ‘SWCVI: The Holocron Keeper at Celebration’ 2012 article at the official Star Wars website.

Holocron Continuity Database wookieepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Holocron_continuity_database

 
^ from see the Holocron database and canonicity section at Wikipedia.

Lucafilm’s 2014 announcement on “Legends & Canon”: “Star Wars entertainment and storytelling is set for a bold new direction”.

The Legendary Star Wars Expanded Universe Turns a New Page - article on StarWars•com on April 25, 2014.

“For over 35 years, the Expanded Universe has enriched the Star Wars experience for fans seeking to continue the adventure beyond what is seen on the screen. When he created Star Wars, George Lucas built a universe that sparked the imagination, and inspired others to create. He opened up that universe to be a creative space for other people to tell their own tales. This became the Expanded Universe, or EU, of comics, novels, videogames, and more.”

An example of George dismissing the lore and history from other creatives’ work on previous official Star Wars material:

(“made up by fans or somebody”? Checks notes: Tom Veitch, EU architect. As it didn’t fit Lucas’ own retconned lore years written later)

^ from the “All Films Are Personal”: An Oral History of Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace 2019 article on the Star Wars website

Yet George & Lucasfilm were happy for fans to believe that had actually occurred for many years. That and much, much more.

Material mentioned previously in the post above: such as in the early Star Wars novels, OT film novelisations, draft scripts, the EU; novels, comics, and video games (notably Veitch & Zahn’s work). The guidebooks, WEG sourcebooks, ‘Art Of’ books etc, trading cards, the CD-ROMs, kids & YA books, and a range of other licensed merchandise… Although the release of the Prequel films would see much of the previously established “pre-Prequel era life & lore” change, retconned, or simply be discarded.

[* Sarcasm mode on *]
If only George actually had those PT-era events all planned out beforehand - as part of an overall ‘master plan’ for Star Wars. He could have then easily issued cursory guidelines for Lucasfilm to follow a cohesive story and lore when releasing such content & merchandise over those 20-30 years. Instead of approving and releasing so much ‘incorrect’ info in official material… and having to retcon all of those stories & events “that never happened”… for the new & changed lore introduced in the PT films.
[* Sarcasm mode off *]
 

Fans’ money, time, imagination, our fervour for the Star Wars universe, us wanting to learn so much more on the events from and around the OT era, remains. It is not simply turned off or diminished because George belatedly claims of “no, that didn’t happen, this happened instead” years after the fact. As soon as George and Lucasfilm released all that official pre-Prequel material to the public it became ours: the fans’. To take in absorb, to cherish, love, interpret, to play with, to invent our own stories on, using our own imaginations to fill in the gaps. All of which were a large part of our love for Star Wars at that time.

So for those who wish to be beholden to ‘George’s vision’ or Lucasfilm’s current ‘canon’… cool. Yet for fans with an interest in the early history of the GFFA, and those of us who were there at the time, experienced and lived it, bought the t-shirt (+ all the other material & merch along with it)… the pre-PT era lore still has much merit. After all, on this site, many do not agree with ‘George’s vision’, attempts at re-writing SW history, nor the revisionism and retcons - yet that’s probably no bad thing at all…

When it comes to lore & history throughout Star Wars… George & Lucasfilm certainly have been consistently inconsistent! 😃

It is no wonder ‘head-canon’ or ‘personal canon’ etc became “a thing” - and has seemingly become more prominent over time.

A Thread Index:

• Introduction
• A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
• Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
• Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
• The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
• Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
• Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
• Miscellaneous
• Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
• A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
• Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
• Credits
 

Introduction

‘Obi Wan Kenobi explains the Force to Luke’ - a 3+ minute Dailymotion video by oojason (using Harmy’s Despecialized Edition).
 

^ The scene that caught so many of our imaginations. The scene that not only explained the Force, but the main characters’ backstory, the history and context of the setting, and the characters within being asked to answer the call to adventure. The scene that left us wanting to know so much more about this mysterious and compelling universe, and what had come before…

Despite George understandably making the Prequel era “off limits” to other writers and creatives before the PT films were released, we were given some snippets and answers on this era through officially released material. Content such as the early Star Wars novels, OT film novelisations, draft scripts, the EU; novels, comics, and video games (notably Veitch & Zahn’s work). The guidebooks, WEG sourcebooks, ‘Art Of’ books etc, trading cards, CD-ROMs, radio plays, and any other licensed material… Although the release of the PT would see much of this “pre-Prequel era life & lore” change, retconned, or simply be discarded.

This is a thread attempting to chronicle that pre-Prequel era lore and history from official Lucasfilm material & products.
 

From a time when Jedi had attachments; marriage, relationships, and children. Even different coloured lightsabers - including red! The Force being an energy field. No ill-explained midichlorians or vague ‘Chosen One’ prophecies. Palpatine wasn’t a Sith, nor yet a force user, and didn’t take control of the Republic until years after the Clone Wars ended. Vader was the Sith supremo. The Clone Wars were fought by the Republic & Jedi against the Mandalorians, geneticists & cloners from the “dark worlds”…

Any help with this incomplete scrapbook is very much appreciated. Anyone is welcome and encouraged to post up any pre-Prequel era content or subject matter; articles, videos, screenshots, images, interviews, or links to books, comics & games (with sources or citations) to be added to the index categories in here.

Please post any fond memories based on material from the pre-Prequel era too. Hopefully this will grow into a useful resource.

I loved the pre-Prequel era of Star Wars; the OT and EU lore associated with it. It was a great time, a fun era. For some it was a part of our childhood or adolescence. For others it fired the imagination, expectations, and hopes. The PT itself turning out to be so disappointing for many, doesn’t take any of that away or diminish that pre-Prequel era lore - nor does George, Lucasfilm, or GL-zealots & PT defenders edicts & decrees on ‘canon’, ‘GL’s vision’, or that ‘Star Wars is his - he can do whatever he wants’.

Those are some of the oft-used excuses for ‘justifying’ the retconning and deletion of pre-PT era lore material from official sources by The Keepers of The Holocron - in attempting to reconcile any such continuity issues. (and who do put much inventive work into that, ranging from clever & imaginative, through to feats of mental gymnastics.) Yet in removing the original content, and no longer acknowledging it, early Star Wars history becomes obfuscated over time… an all-too familiar occurrence in the GFFA.

This thread is just simply an attempt to highlight that road not fully travelled. It was that road for some 20+ years, but then it forked off. So this is more of a ‘what was’, ‘what if’, a ‘what could have been’, or ‘what was going to be’; instead of what we eventually got with the disparate Prequels films, and the retconned lore & history that came with it; at that time, and since…
 

A Thread Index:

• Introduction (this post)
• A quick note on ‘Canon’ (yep, I know…)
• Timelines: Story Events and Alterations
• Settings, Planets and Systems | Organisations and Governments
• The Jedi (as an Order Of Knights; their Way Of Life, the Force, Robes, Lightsabers etc)
• Characters and Biographies | Protagonists and Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
• Characters and Biographies | Antagonists, Adversaries and their Allies (including changes of persona or origin story)
• Miscellaneous
• Blank Post (a spare post for possible future use; if ever required)
• A list of ‘Suggestions, Claims, Memories, and Posts’ on more pre-PT era material: to be checked and confirmed
• Index of Relevant OriginalTrilogy.com Threads
• Credits

A few OT threads that feature some comprehensive information on the more widely known facets of Pre-Prequel era lore:

1. Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels
2. Putting The Original-Original Trilogy’s Prequel Story together
3. The Prequels as Envisioned by the (Pre-PT) Expanded Universe
4. What if The Prequels were based on the Pre-PT EU and were more “OT Accurate”
5. Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue (+ character ages + when certain events take place)
6. What did you think the Clone Wars were gonna be?
7. The Jedi Purge | a general discussion
8. Were the Jedi supposed to not be allowed to get married, have children or any possessions when the OT was made?
9. On Jedi and Attachment
10. At what point did Tatooine robes become Jedi uniforms?
11. OT lightsaber colours; (and some waffling on about the various colours used across the OT & Expanded Universe)
12. Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the Prequels? Or was it added later in the EU?
13. What Luke’s father and Darth Vader would have been like had Lucas kept them as separate characters?
14. Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… (a ‘50+ issues’ list)

 
• Some OT film drafts and character threads for the OT era can be found in An Index for Original Trilogy Discussion

• Some EU material covering the Pre-Prequel era (before the PT films) can be found in An Index for the Expanded Universe
 

CloakedDragon97 said:

I watched the video for the first time recently and hated it and the points he was trying to make. The original, unaltered release of any media, not just Star Wars, should always be available. And we have the right to criticize the actions of someone’s work if we find it mediocre.

100%

I do not post this to promote Rick Worley’s "How to Watch Star Wars, Part Two: The Special Editions Are the Movies, Get Over It" video, or any of his other Star Wars YouTube efforts, but to give an indication of the bias to expect in these videos.

The message throughout appears to be that we should all also simply accept anything that George says and does; without question, or critique, because it is more “than you deserve”. It really does sound like some kind of cultish idol worship:
 

“How to Watch Star Wars, Part One: The Prequels Are Better Movies Than You Deserve”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqnjzVX8EKA - a 2 hour and 20 minute YouTube video, from Rick Worley, in 2019.
 

Yes, “better movies than you deserve”.

Both Ugh & LMAO. At the same time.

screams in the void said:

I’m excited to see how Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy will handle and interpret Steven Knight’s script . As to the ongoing conversation in this thread , I’ll just leave this here …https://screenrant.com/star-wars-new-jedi-order-movie-controversy-absurd/

Same here, and nice article. I enjoyed that.

Gandalf the Cyan said:

I, for one, am cautiously optimistic. I don’t want to get my hopes up too high, but she and Knight are both pretty competent.

And yeah, it’s crazy that people are hating on this movie while it’s still in pre-production.

Yeah, I really hope this does well,
 

It is crazy that simply stating that she is the first woman and person of color to direct a Star Wars feature, with the inference being in 2024 it is “about time” this has happened. So what? It is a fact. How important or relevant it is to people of course will vary.

Personally I want to see people from different walks of life and experiences from across the world make Star Wars films and TV series. To being something different “to the table”, whether in story, tone, or style, and what is has to say. Her background is a fascinating one, as a journalist, and documentary maker, and now film maker. I’m looking forward to this film with her directing it, than I would be if JJ was coming back to do it, or other random Hollywood based or the latest “hot-shot” studio director was doing this, or people close to Lucasfilm like Filoni & Favreau.
 

The rest of that CNN interview was more interesting, personally. Sharmeen talking about a role model who stood out in her journalistic and film making life, the importance of a support structure in difficult times, and the opportunity for other people from minority backgrounds to be given a chance, like someone did for her. So they can tell their own stories. Her film company in Pakistan enabling others to do that in making 15 films last year, and 15 films this year.

The 3 minute CNN interview with Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy:

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/12/31/exp-nye-2024-pakistan-obaid-chinoy-123111aseg3-cnni-world.cnn

Halagad Ventor

I like that “Halagad” is an anagram of “Galahad”, one of the more famous Knights of the Round Table at King Arthur’s Court. Cool story for the character too.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Halagad_Ventor
 

Jake Bartok did some cool ‘Olde Republic’ Medieval Knights art for 12 of the Original Trilogy characters a couple of years ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/iz5x6y/olde_republic_medieval_original_trilogy_by_jake/

Vladius said:

Sideburns of BoShek said:

DarthStarkiller1234 said:

Sideburns of BoShek said:

It would be cool to see a timeline for that pre-Prequel era, with events and also character bios. Including links to actual sources like the films, WEG sourcebooks, guidebooks, novels, comics, games and any other stuff like Making Magic and Behind The Magic CD-Roms. Or even a single thread covering those events and characters, their life and lore pre-PT.

Some OT threads that have covered what you are posting about (from a quick look around the Indexes on here):

• What if The Prequels were based on the Pre-PT EU and were more “OT Accurate”
• Were the Jedi supposed to not be allowed to get married, have children or any possessions when the OT was made?
• At what point did Tatooine robes become Jedi uniforms?
• OT lightsaber colours; and some waffling on about the various colours used across the OT & Expanded Universe
• Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels
• Putting The Original-Original Trilogy’s Prequel Story together
• Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue; + character ages + when certain events took place
• Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the Prequels? Or was it added later in the EU?
• Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… (‘50+ issues’ list)

Some OT film drafts and character threads for the OT are in An Index for Original Trilogy Discussion
 

There is also a section in the ‘An Index for General Star Wars Discussion’ for this topic; with many relevant threads:

‘Star Wars before the Prequels (with the PT ushering in George’s ‘nu-SW rules’) : life and lore from both the Original Trilogy & EU’

 

Edit: I thought I had deja vu! You posted asking about ages of characters here just a month ago?:

How old Anakin and Obi Wan were originally supposed to be?

Ah yeah I’m really starting to get into the Pre-PT prequels so I’m posting a lot of questions if its okay

That’s great, I think there is a number of us on here interested in that era, and some even old enough to remember it!

Although wouldn’t it be better to put it all your questions in one “mega” Pre-Prequel thread? So anyone can easily find and answer any of your questions, and not have repeat questions and answers? Up to you DarthStarkiller1234, I hope you find the answers and information you are looking for.

I edited in 2 more threads to my original list above.

I am surprised there aren’t YouTube videos or even websites covering the topic. There seems to be hundreds of videos online out there repeating the same things on Star Wars, but not so many on the “pre-Prequel” era?

Yeah I think we should have our own thread for this. I’ve actually considered doing a YouTube channel or at least a video in the past, but never had the time.

A video through the lens of OT fans at the time, expectations and hopes, based on those snippets of information from the official material at that time would be so cool. I hope someone does do such a video one day.

I’ll create a thread trying to cover the “pre-PT era lore and content” soon. I’ve been messing around with some ideas and got some encouragement & ideas for layouts and how the formatting on here works. It’ll ask for anyone with knowledge and memories of that time to post what they know, along with any sources or references.

Try and build a scrapbook kind of resource full of links, screenshots or something? The “road no longer traveled” kind of thing.
 

01/12 Edit. I’ll post it up over this weekend.

Now posted in the ‘General Star Wars Discussion’ forum:
 

Pre-PT era lore | an OT & EU scrapbook resource | additional info & sources welcome
 

Sorry for the thread bump, but thought I’d post here rather than start a new thread.
 

I remember thinking the Clone Wars were fought over the ethical and practical applications of clones. That greedy and slave profiteers like the Clone Masters recruited Mandalorians to fight for them and lead their clone fighters, due to their historical fights and dislike of the Jedi. The Mandalorians were basically mercenaries, and were willing to be cloned by the clone masters in return for money, better weapon technology, and a chance to fight with the Clone Armies at their side vs the Jedi and the smaller force of the Republic military.

Jedi were wandering ronins, going around and righting wrongs and injustice. Like in a Kurosawa film, or like King Arthur’s Knights. Far from what we saw in the PT films with the Jedi hierarchy and being close to the Senate but not with the people in The Republic. No ban on attachments, having families and children and so on.

Anakin never knew or met Yoda, just that Yoda once taught Obi-Wan. I remember guessing that The Emperor could be a fallen Jedi, and maybe that is how he turned Anakin, knowing what heartstrings to pull, the Jedi’s strengths, weaknesses, what to prey on to get him see things from his point of view, and turn him to the dark side.

The whole thing would be more mystical feel than we got later in the PT films. More of a “we can’t solve our differences with a lightsaber, but with our knowledge of the force” with characters like Dooku vs Yoda, and not the other way around like we actually saw in the PT.

That Padme suspected Anakin of beginning to turn to the dark side. Maybe even luring and killing Jedi? Betraying them? She already had Luke and Leia. I think that was based on those mid 90’s paintings for the Topps cards.

The Clone masters, or Mandalorians had secretly managed to somehow learn how reprogram droids in The Republic to rebel and kill their Republic masters. Resulting in millions of deaths before these errant droids on the rampage were somehow stopped. And that is why some people are seen not to trust droids, that droids have restraining bolts, or limits placed on them and what they can do.

Edit: there is more on this, and the pre-PT era lore in general, in this new thread:
 

Pre-PT era lore | an OT & EU scrapbook resource | additional info & sources welcome
 

and also in Caston’s thread Jedi Purge thread:

The Jedi Purge | The Empire hunting down the Jedi Knights | a general discussion

Happy New Year everyone!

Very enjoyable and would recommend to anyone else interested in the history of Star Wars on TV.

Top presenting, thought you did a very good job researching and writing the script for the video, and it came off very natural held my limited attention span!
 

Your “I FOUND The Tracey Ullman Show! (all of it)” video looks interesting as well!

Doesn’t this belong in the Script Writing and Re-writing forum?

and your Star Wars prequels based on the old drafts of George Lucas and the old Expanded Universe - Outline in too?

Edit: my mistake. You already have the same thread in the Script Writing and Re-writing forum.

It looks a good outline and I’m looking forward to reading more of your outlines and stories. I really love that Pre-Prequel era.

STAR WARS (ANANGONG MIIGAADING), A NEW HOPE: An Ojibwe Version to Become Only Second Indigenous Version of Franchise Starter

https://screenanarchy.com/2023/12/star-wars-anangong-miigaading-a-new-hope.html
 

'A cool bit of news for Star Wars fans here in Canada. The Dakota Ojibway Tribal Council (DOTC) and the University of Manitoba announced today that they have an alliance with Disney/Lucasfilm to create an official Anishinaabemowin (Ojibwe) version of Star Wars: A New Hope.

The spark of this project began in 2021, when Dougald Lamont, former Member of the Legislative Assembly for St. Boniface, reached out to Pablo Hidalgo, a former Winnipegger and Lucasfilm executive, to see whether it would be possible to get Star Wars officially translated into an Indigenous language.

“I thought if Star Wars could be translated into Navajo, they might be interested in doing another language as well,” said Dougald Lamont. “And while I’ve never met Pablo Hidalgo, Winnipeg being Winnipeg, we have several friends in common, so I e-mailed him. A couple of weeks later, I got an e-mail back from Michael Kohn. I was over the moon – over two moons! I immediately reached out to another friend and Star Wars fan, Maeengan Linklater at DOTC, and that got the ball rolling.”

A New Hope has been translated and localized into more than 50 languages. This new version joins the Navjo version created in 2013 as the only Indigenous language versions of Star Wars films.’

Some more Star Wars Timelines from before the Prequels, just for some nostalgia and fun:
 

“Time Line Of Important Events In The Star Wars Galaxy”, from the 1994 book ‘A Guide to the Star Wars Universe, Second Edition, Revised and Expanded’:
 

^ from https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

“Star Wars Timeline from 1994”, from Star Wars Insider #23:
 

“Star Wars Timeline from 1997”, for the “Dark Force Rising” comics.
 

Edit:

The Star Wars Timeline Gold by Nathan P Butler: 5 downloadable pdf files covering different aspects of the Star Wars Timeline

https://starwarsfanworks.com/timeline (final edition was in 2018)
 

1. Story Group Canon Timeline
2. Legends Timeline, Vol. 1 (Pre-ANH, Minus Clone Wars)
3. Legends Timeline, Vol. 2 (ANH and Beyond)
4. Legends Clone Wars Supplement
5. Appendices

^ The Legends Timeline Vol. 2 is relevant here; there are 426 pages of the Timeline just to get to 100BBY. Comprehensive.

Some YouTube videos I found on some of the New Republic topics that the OP gave as examples of NR ineptitude/poor writing:
 

This makes the New Republic look AWFUL - 2 min video at EcksClips : the Mindflayer scene in Mandalorian.

The New Republic is TOO NICE [Why is it So Creepy??] - 9 min video at Geetsly’s : Dr Pershing, Elia Kane and the mindflayer.

The Mandalorian season 3 set a plague unto my household - 17-28 mins into video - at Sheev Talks : NR writing & worldbuilding.

This New Republic scene explained EVERYTHING - 90 sec video at EcksClips : NR Govt not having enough resources.

The New Republic is Immediately Stupid in the Ahsoka Series - 8 min video at Eat Garbage : NR Captain lets ‘Jedi’ onboard.

This was pretty dumb writing - 1 min video at EcksClips : resources to try and recover the powerful hyperdrive?

This made the New Republic look TERRIBLE - 90 sec video at EcksClips : Ahsoka series - Senator Xiono vs Hera.

Is The Star Wars New Republic TOO Stupid? - 12 min video at New Rockstars : Ahsoka makes the NR Govt look incompetent.

Is the Mandalorian ruining the New Republic? - 7 min video at EckhartsLadder : Pershing + demilitarisation of the NR fleet.

The New Republic Problem - 16 min video at Generation Tech : setting the New Republic on a disastrous course.

Ahsoka & The Problems with the New Republic - 12 min video at Thor Skywalker : politics of the NR + issues in the shows.

Why did the Ahsoka series make the New Republic so stupid? - 10 min video from The Outer Rim : NR incompetence.

DarthStarkiller1234 said:

Sideburns of BoShek said:

It would be cool to see a timeline for that pre-Prequel era, with events and also character bios. Including links to actual sources like the films, WEG sourcebooks, guidebooks, novels, comics, games and any other stuff like Making Magic and Behind The Magic CD-Roms. Or even a single thread covering those events and characters, their life and lore pre-PT.

Some OT threads that have covered what you are posting about (from a quick look around the Indexes on here):

• What if The Prequels were based on the Pre-PT EU and were more “OT Accurate”
• Were the Jedi supposed to not be allowed to get married, have children or any possessions when the OT was made?
• At what point did Tatooine robes become Jedi uniforms?
• OT lightsaber colours; and some waffling on about the various colours used across the OT & Expanded Universe
• Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels
• Putting The Original-Original Trilogy’s Prequel Story together
• Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue; + character ages + when certain events took place
• Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the Prequels? Or was it added later in the EU?
• Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… (‘50+ issues’ list)

Some OT film drafts and character threads for the OT are in An Index for Original Trilogy Discussion
 

There is also a section in the ‘An Index for General Star Wars Discussion’ for this topic; with many relevant threads:

‘Star Wars before the Prequels (with the PT ushering in George’s ‘nu-SW rules’) : life and lore from both the Original Trilogy & EU’

 

Edit: I thought I had deja vu! You posted asking about ages of characters here just a month ago?:

How old Anakin and Obi Wan were originally supposed to be?

Ah yeah I’m really starting to get into the Pre-PT prequels so I’m posting a lot of questions if its okay

That’s great, I think there is a number of us on here interested in that era, and some even old enough to remember it!

Although wouldn’t it be better to put it all your questions in one “mega” Pre-Prequel thread? So anyone can easily find and answer any of your questions, and not have repeat questions and answers? Up to you DarthStarkiller1234, I hope you find the answers and information you are looking for.

I edited in 2 more threads to my original list above.

I am surprised there aren’t YouTube videos or even websites covering the topic. There seems to be hundreds of videos online out there repeating the same things on Star Wars, but not so many on the “pre-Prequel” era?

It would be cool to see a timeline for that pre-Prequel era, with events and also character bios.

Including links to actual sources like the films, WEG sourcebooks, guidebooks, novels, comics, games, toy descriptions, Making Magic and Behind The Magic CD-Roms, and also magazines that had articles and stories inside like Starlog, SW Insider and Hypersapce, even in the early days of the official Star Wars website and blog.

Or even a single thread covering those events and characters, their life and lore pre-PT.
 

Some OT threads that have covered what you are posting about (from a quick look around the Indexes on here):

1. Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels
2. Putting The Original-Original Trilogy’s Prequel Story together
3. The Prequels as Envisioned by the (Pre-PT) Expanded Universe
4. What if The Prequels were based on the Pre-PT EU and were more “OT Accurate”
5. Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue (+ character ages + when certain events take place)
6. What did you think the Clone Wars were gonna be?
7. The Jedi Purge | a general discussion
8. Were the Jedi supposed to not be allowed to get married, have children or any possessions when the OT was made?
9. On Jedi and Attachment
10. At what point did Tatooine robes become Jedi uniforms?
11. OT lightsaber colours; (and some waffling on about the various colours used across the OT & Expanded Universe)
12. Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the Prequels? Or was it added later in the EU?
13. What Luke’s father and Darth Vader would have been like had Lucas kept them as separate characters?
14. Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… (a ‘50+ issues’ list)

Some OT film drafts and character threads for the OT are in An Index for Original Trilogy Discussion

There is also a section in the ‘An Index for General Star Wars Discussion’ for this topic; with many relevant threads:

'The Star Wars Universe: OT & EU - Life & Lore before the Prequels (the PT ushering in George’s ‘nu-SW rules’ and more retcons)’

oojason said:

Star Wars before the Prequels (with the PT ushering in George’s ‘nu-SW rules’) : archetypal life and lore from both the Original Trilogy & Expanded Universe…

 

 

Some threads highlighting Star Wars lore & history - before the Prequel films altered it / introduced new lore…

 
• What if The Prequels were based on the Pre-PT EU and were more “OT Accurate”? (2023 thread)

• How the EU and the OT described Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine and the Jedi Knights before the PT films? (2023 thread)

• Putting The Original-Original Trilogy’s Prequel Story together (2008 thread)

• Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels (2019 thread)

• Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue (2015 thread; + character ages + when certain events took place…)

• Star Wars Prequels were mapped out in 1981, only nothing like the way they turned out (2013 thread)

• What if the Prequels were made in the 80’s? (2022 thread)

• Star Wars in the '90s? (2009 thread)

• Interesting Hypothesis of the Prequels Story from the Mid 90’s (2005 thread)

• What did we all expect from the Prequel Trilogy? (2004 thread)

• How did you envision the Prequels? (2007 thread)

• What were your original expectations for the PT? (2007 thread)

• How did you imagine The Star Wars Prequels before they came out? (2011 thread)

• Did you think Dagobah was Yoda’s homeworld before the Prequels were made? (2022 thread)

• What did you think the Clone Wars were gonna be? (2005 thread)

• How did you imagine the Emperor taking over? (2005 thread)

• How you pictured Anakin pre-PT (2015 thread)

• “You don’t know the power of the dark side! I must obey my master” (2005 thread; OT dialogue vs PT events)

• Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the Prequels? Or was it added later in the EU? (2021)

• Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… (2021 thread; ‘50+ issues’ list)

 

The Jedi & Sith; The Force - Light & Dark Side, in between, and the mystery…

 
Including discussions on the dissonance between the Jedi of the Original Trilogy era vs Prequels & since… (1976-1998 vs 1999-present)
 

• Lucas’ Inspirations for Star Wars (2012 thread)

• Bushido of Star Wars (2004 thread)

• Ignorance in the Star Wars Galaxy (2014 thread)

• Do you think the average citizen of the Star Wars galaxy would even be aware of the Force? (2012 thread)

• Personal Opinions on the Nature of the Force (2013 thread)

• Questions about the The Force & the SW universe (2018 thread)

• What was George talking about here? In his conversation with Alan Dean Foster? - re The Force in ESB (2020 thread)

• Inconsistent use of “the force” (2008 thread)

• Frivolous use of the Force (2014 thread)

• Unused force ability? - re The Force in ESB (2004 thread)

• Force Speed question? (2014 thread)

• How did Vader deflect those shots? (2009 thread)

• “explanations” about Vader (2009 thread)

• Help me settle an argument: does Luke use the ‘force choke’? (2004 thread)

• “You don’t know the power of the dark side! I must obey my master” (2005 thread)

• Luke VS the Emperor- What if Vader hadn’t been there? (2009 thread)

• In 30 years why do you think Emperor… never taught Vader how to do the lightning? (2016 thread)

• When and why did Lucas decide to make The Emperor a Force-user? (2022 thread)

• What would Darth Vader have been like as a ruler, if he had overthrown emperor palpatine and became the emperor/ruler of the galaxy himself?? (2012 thread)
 

The Jedi…

 
• Your favorite Jedi? (2011 thread)

• “I was ONCE (emphasis mine) a Jedi Knight, the same as your father.” (2007 thread)

• Is Obi-Wan a Jedi Master or a Jedi Knight? (2016 thread)

• Who Was Obi Wan Kenobi’s Real Master? (2014 thread)

• Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… (2021 unfinished ‘50+ topics list’ thread)

• Are the Jedi so good? (2011 thread)

• When did the Jedi become monks? (2007 thread)

• Were the Jedi supposed to not be allowed to get married, have children or any possessions when the OT was made? (2023)

• What Luke’s father and Darth Vader would have been like had Lucas kept them seperate? (2023 thread)

• At what point did Tatooine robes become Jedi uniforms? (2023 thread)

• how long does it take to train a jedi? (2005 thread)

• Do the Jedi steal children? (2007 thread)

• Too Old (2004 thread)

• On Jedi and Attachment (2022 thread)

• the next generation of Jedi (2010 thread; Jedi offspring, reproduction, attachments etc)

• Punishment for committing Adultery if you are a Jedi…?? (2005 thread)

• Yoda & Emperor PT vs OT (2005 thread)

• The Jedi of the PT (2014 thread)

• ROTS: The Jedi Now Seen In A Different Light… (2005 thread)

• I hate the Jedi (2019 thread; the disconnect between OT & PT Jedi)

• Who is the greatest Jedi of all time? (Dave Filoni says it is Anakin Skywalker. Is he?) (2023 thread)

• jedi spirits (2006 thread; EU spirit possession etc)

• I’ve given this a lot of thought, and I’ve decided this makes no sense. (Qui-Gon and Anakin’s ghosts.) (2006 thread)

• Why Didn’t Qui Gon Gin’s Body Disappear Like Obiwan’s and Yoda’s? (2017 thread)

• A mini-index of OT.com threads on the subject of Anakin Skywalker’s Force Ghost in Return Of The Jedi (2020 thread)
 

Lightsabers…

 
• What methods were used in coming up with the choreography of the lightsaber duels? (2020 thread)

• another example of Lucas changing things to appeal to a new generation - lightsaber dueling styles of OT vs PT (2010 thread)

• OT lightsaber colours (2019 thread; and some waffling on about the various colours used across the OT & Expanded Universe etc)

• Multiple Lightsaber Colour Appreciation Thread! (2012 thread; with images for many differing saber colours over time)

• The Curse of the Blue Lightsaber (2004 thread)

• Best (and worst) lightsaber colour? (2016 thread)

• Best (and worst) lightsaber design? (2016 thread)

• the lightsaber (2018 thread)

• lightsaber ambient light (2011 thread)

 

Rather than re-post more of the above Index categories & threads here - I’ll simply list the relevant Index sections:-

 
• Original Trilogy vs later Star Wars: plot holes, inconsistencies, contradictions, disconnects, mental gymnastics, + stretches etc
• Vs & Similarities (between Trilogies and other Star Wars releases; PT vs OT, EU vs OT, EU vs Standalone Films, ST vs TV, etc)

• Midichlorians (their mid-90’s invention for the Prequels, + Lucas’ failed retcon of them ‘having always been there’ in the GFFA)…
• Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side…

• Canon
• ‘The pre-Prequel era EU’ discussions in ‘An Index & Help Thread for The Expanded Universe’ features many relevant threads too.

 

If anyone knows of any other relevant threads to include in this section please post them up. Especially for the original birth of the Rebellion, or pre-Prequel era Boba Fett (aka Jaster Mereel), Mandalorians who fought the Jedi in the Clone Wars, Palpatine (not a Sith or even a Dark Side user), Anakin, Obi-Wan, Thrawn, or any other character… that has seen their backstory or persona significantly change since the Prequel Trilogy era. Or please feel free to create any new threads yourselves on the topic…

If you’d like to see a more complete ‘Index Thread’ for this topic - please free to create one - and ask the mods to pin it up. 👍

 

Edit: I thought I had deja vu! You posted asking about ages of characters here just a month ago?:

How old Anakin and Obi Wan were originally supposed to be?

Yes, I’d agree with much of that. It is also not much of a legacy for the OT characters, is it?

To me, the Mandoverse doesn’t seem to be well thought out or planned, in regards to the New Republic.

Although I must also say that, season 1 and some episodes of Season 2 of Mando apart, the writing for the Mandoverse in general has been poor. Vague, sketchy, and lacking in quality. Too often relying on memberberries and empty fan service, with poor set-up, puzzling plot and character decisions, resulting in unsatisfactory pay-offs. And some poor execution in general. Yet even then, the New Republic scenes do stick out as being particularly lacking.

At this point I’m not even sure an Andor-level series could rescue or repair this Mandoverse. I’d love to see such a show, I really would. But it would be more for personal head canon, than a corner turned in quality or a bar-raising event, like Andor should have been for other Star Wars shows.

It is why I’m looking forward to SW content that is free of Filoni+Favreau: The Acolyte, Skeleton Crew, Dawn Of The Empire. Far more than Ahsoka S2, Mando S4, or the NR Filoni film, which I’m not planning on watching. I just don’t want to be disappointed by any more underwhelming and flimsy F+F releases.

From a fun thread on r/StarWarsEU:
 

^ a screenshot of the 1997 ‘The Star Wars Trilogy Scrapbook: The Galactic Empire’

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Trilogy_Scrapbook:_The_Galactic_Empire

There was also mention of the 1993 X-Wing game, and “The Farlander Papers” mission & companion book that came with it:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Farlander_Papers
 

Mon Mothma speaks of the “decades of peace” between the end of the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire, with Palpatine being elected President during the war, but not declaring himself Emperor and exterminating the Jedi, until much later.

Some pages relevant to the “pre-Prequels” story at the time:

All 98 pages of it can be seen here: https://archive.org/details/pdfy-52fQeoxh9CohzbEk/page/n67/mode/2up

Some pages from Mon Mothma’s “A Call To Reason” manifesto-type document used to try and attract people to the Rebellion (and part of The Farlander Papers):
 

Edit: there is more on this, and the pre-PT era lore in general, in this new thread:

Pre-PT era lore | an OT & EU scrapbook resource | additional info & sources welcome

Andor got nominated in 5 categories of The Saturn awards:

Best Science-Fiction TV Series
Best New Genre Television Series
Best Actor In A Television Series: Diego Luna
Best Supporting Actress In A Television Series: Genevieve O’Reilly
Best Guest Star In A Television Series: Andy Serkis

“Winners will be announced February 4, 2024”

https://deadline.com/2023/12/saturn-awards-nominations-list-movies-tv-1235654052
 

A little surprising that Stellan Skarsgård didn’t get nominated too? Maybe they can only have 1 nominee in each category?

Regardless, I hope Andor wins them all. And at the Emmys too in January.

It is out now on blu-ray, DVD, and on digital.

https://disturbanceintheforce.com & https://twitter.com/SWHSDoc The trailer: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZX80oTGQfM

‘A Disturbance in the Force‘ – The Star Wars Holiday Special Documentary Gets Positive Buzz After Its Release at SWNN

'A Disturbance in the Force, a documentary digging in to the behind-the-scenes story behind the infamous Star Wars Holiday Special will release on Blu-Ray and digital media on December 5th, Lucasfilm announced today via Variety, on the 45th anniversary of the special’s release.

Updated: On it’s release A Disturbance in the Force has had a successful premiere, achieving #1 in the documentary charts on both Apple and Amazon. It has also received positive critical reviews, with a 100% Critics Score on Rotten Tomatoes. The filmmakers shared a tweet thanking fans for the documentary’s success.

Documentary filmmakers Jeremy Coons and Steve Kozak announced their project back in 2020 and released the first trailer earlier this year to go along with its premiere at the South by South West film festival. The documentary has garnered positive reviews, which state the film isn’t just made with die-hard fans in mind but will amuse anyone who wants a peek at how arguably the worst piece of Star Wars content was made.

While the special itself was terrible, it has continued to inspire fans and creators to this day and has an increasing influence on current storytelling. Examples of this include Din Djarin’s phase-pulse rifle, which first appeared in the special wielded by an animated Boba Fett, and Life Day, which has been referenced in several Star Wars media, most recently in Young Jedi Adventures.

While it won’t make up for the absence of a big-screen Star Wars release the doc, complete with celebrity interviews, might help fill the void, or even make a fun stocking filler when it releases on December 5th.’

I never thought I’d want to buy anything to do with The Holiday Special, but this does look cool, and hope it continues to do really well.
 

Tom Veitch, Kevin Anderson and the TOTJ creatives basically created much of the ancient society, culture, and lore for both the ancient Jedi and the Sith. The galactic history of the Star Wars universe.

Holocrons, dual-bladed lightsabers, jedi dueling with a saber in each hand. Various compelling new characters, ship and creature designs, and some beguiling world building.

Obviously, this was well before the Jedi were given a major overhaul with several “rule/lore” changes introduced by George Lucas for 2002’s Attack Of The Clones, there wasn’t a “no attachments” rule for the Jedi. Jedi were free to marry, have relationships, have children, had some possessions, and their own homes. They even had different colored lightsabers, not just green or blue, and the Sith or antagonists didn’t always use red sabers either.

Personally, Veitch’s & Anderson’s Jedi are way more interesting and engaging than the regimented and dogmatic Jedi of the Prequels. Although Prequel-Jedi do have the drawback of seemingly being specifically written that way, as part of “reasons why Anakin fell to the dark side”.

It felt hugely significant as it was the first depiction of the Jedi at their height, and also featuring details of the historical Sith, which as the time little was known about. The fairy-tale knight-errant story of a Jedi, fallen Sith, with and complex and conflicting central character elevated the story. Compelling side characters, fleshed out with their backgrounds struck a chord with readers, and left us wanting more. There were many striking ideas with engaging execution in TOTJ, solid storytelling, all immersing you deeper into that familiar Star Wars universe.

For me, the TOTJ team certainly left behind one of the most impressive legacies in the EU. 35 issues of enthralling reading.
 

What did you guys think about the TOTJ comics?

About Tales Of The Jedi:

(most of this has been copied from the TOTJ wookieepedia page, as background for anyone unfamiliar with this comic book series)
 

Tales of the Jedi is a comic book series covering eight story arcs, all published by Dark Horse Comics from 1993 to 1998.

Set during the Old Republic era, six of the eight Tales of the Jedi story arcs take place during the time surrounding the events known collectively as the Great Sith War (circa 4000 BBY), a conflict instigated by Sith forces aimed at galactic domination:

Ulic Qel-Droma and the Beast Wars of Onderon
The Saga of Nomi Sunrider
The Freedon Nadd Uprising
Dark Lords of the Sith
The Sith War
Redemption

The remaining two story arcs occur circa 5000 BBY (around 1000 years before the 6 story arcs above), and revolve around Sith Lord Naga Sadow and his schemes to invade Republic space:

The Golden Age of the Sith
The Fall of the Sith Empire

TOTJ introductory crawl:

The background:

The first story arc, entitled Ulic Qel-Droma and the Beast Wars of Onderon, was written by veteran Star Wars author Tom Veitch and was part of the first series of comics, which eventually became known as Knights of the Old Republic. Veitch went on to write the next two story arcs, The Saga of Nomi Sunrider and The Freedon Nadd Uprising, and co-authored the fourth story arc, Dark Lords of the Sith, with fellow author Kevin J. Anderson.

With the successful completion of Dark Lords of the Sith, Anderson continued the Tales of the Jedi series as the sole storyline writer, with Veitch opting not to continue writing for the series.

Anderson went on to write the final two story arcs, involving main protagonist Ulic Qel-Droma, completing The Sith War in the spring of 1996 and Redemption in the fall of 1998. In the years between the writing of The Sith War and Redemption, Anderson pioneered two more story arcs, both taking place 1,000 years before the other Tales of the Jedi stories and introducing readers to the events surrounding the Great Hyperspace War.

The Tales of the Jedi saga also produced several non-comic productions, such as the Tales of the Jedi Companion, a sourcebook for West End Games’ Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game, and two different audio dramas based on various Tales of the Jedi comics. Tales of the Jedi was also the inspiration for the popular Knights of the Old Republic video games.
 

RIP Tom Veitch & https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tom_Veitch & https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kevin_J._Anderson
 

2008 interview with Kevin J. Anderson on TOTJ:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Interview/Kevin_J._Anderson

2008 interview with Tom Veitch on TOTJ:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Interview/Tom_Veitch

1998 interview with Christian Gossett on TOTJ:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190730114031/http://theforce.net/jedicouncil/interview/gossett.asp
 
 

Comic book cover art for TOTJ (from https://youtini.com/series/tales-of-the-jedi):

About the TOTJ Audio Book release:

‘Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi (The Complete Unabridged Saga)’ : a 17 video YouTube Playlist from LibriDocs

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL69wE1yyWEuQuZltChSE3syMAbJCUhUUC
 

The video description:

'The audio book deviates from the comic book at times. Both the audio book and comic book are unabridged: every page in the comic is shown at least once. Most of the music was added by me as well (occasionally in a leitmotif-fashion) as the original audio book had very little although I left what music it had intact. It is fast in parts so you might need to use the pause and rewind buttons sometimes.

Rest in peace to Tom Veitch who wrote this story.’
 

wookieepedia page for TOTJ audio drama release page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tales_of_the_Jedi_(audio)

Dark Lords of Sith audio page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tales_of_the_Jedi:_Dark_Lords_of_the_Sith_(audio)

About the TOTJ Companion book:

‘Tales of the Jedi Companion’ : an 11 minute YouTube video from RPGGamer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un-d9ks3zhU : a flip through type video with talk about the Companion project & TOTJ
 

The video description:

'Tales of the Jedi Companion is a sourcebook for Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game, published by West End Games on August 1, 1996.

The book covers information related to the first three story arcs of the Tales of the Jedi comic book series by Dark Horse Comics—Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi — Ulic Qel-Droma and the Beast Wars of Onderon, Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi — The Saga of Nomi Sunrider, and Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi — The Freedon Nadd Uprising.’
 

Wookieepedia page for the TOTJ Companion: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tales_of_the_Jedi_Companion

TOTJ Story and game inspired spinoffs; prequels, sequels, crossovers etc:

 
TOTJ Legacy: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Tales_of_the_Jedi_(comic_series)#Legacy

KOTOR 1 (2003): https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic
KOTOR 2 (2004): https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic_II:_The_Sith_Lords
TOR (2011): https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic

Vector comics (2008): https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Vector
 

There are a number of ‘KOTOR’ & ‘TOR’ novels / comics / games threads, inspired by Tales Of The Jedi, in the EU Index thread.

About the ‘Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic’ comic series (2006-2010):

 
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is a monthly comic book series published by Dark Horse Comics that ran for four years, beginning January 25, 2006 and ending with its fiftieth issue on February 17, 2010. Written by John Jackson Miller, Knights of the Old Republic saw a variety of different artists and cover artists draw various issues of the series, and KotOR serves as a sequel to the earlier Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi comic series and a prequel to the popular Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic video game.

Wookieepeedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic_(comic_series)

The 2022 “Tales Of The Jedi” animated series, that plays on the popularity of this comic series, by unjustifiably using the same name and logo, and didn’t even have the decency to include a dedication or acknowledgment that Tom Veitch had recently passed away in it, is here:

Tales of the Jedi (animated series) - General Discussion Thread

(Dave Filoni taking from the EU to alter and use in his own projects, without any credit given to the original creatives, is a familiar trait)

Mocata said:

RIP legendary movie poster artist Roger Kastel - ESB, Jaws, Superman et al.

That Empire poster of his was fantastic:

 
That “simple” Jaws poster with the swimmer beneath the logo and the shark was right up there with it:

 
Some more of his art: http://www.rogerkastel.com

RIP Roger Kastel.