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Football / Soccer thread - general footy, futebol, futbol, fotbal, Fußball, voetbal or calcio

Peter Pan said:

Any Leverkusen fans around?

I’m not a fan of them (liverpool for me) - though do enjoy watching Die Werkself. We get many of the Bundesliga games here in the UK on BT Sport, and also by other means 😉 Felt for you guys missing out so narrowly on Champions League qualification this season.

A clinical display and performance over Rangers in the Europa League was pretty impressive, and I hope you do the same vs Inter in the Quarters 😃

Articles & info that highlight / call for a classic version release of the Original Trilogy

Star Wars Doesn’t Belong to George Lucas. It Belongs to the Fans

^ a 2015 article from The New York Times.

The blurb (it is a lengthy article - though one worth reading in full; below is a snippet):-

'Mr. Lucas always knew his audience. In April 1977, the month before “Star Wars” opened, American Film magazine ran an interview in which he talked about who he wanted to reach. “Rather than do some angry, socially relevant film,” he said, “I realized that there was another relevance that is even more important — dreams and fantasies, getting children to believe there is more to life than garbage and killing and all that real stuff like stealing hubcaps — that you could still sit and dream about exotic lands and strange creatures.” His influences were a postmodern grab bag, from samurai films to “John Carter of Mars.” (Years later, Joseph Campbell was worked into the conversation, too.) Crucially, Mr. Lucas said, “I wanted to make a children’s movie, to go the Disney route.”

He specifically sought out science-fiction fans for “Star Wars,” and 20th Century Fox, its distributor, advised exhibitors to use science-fiction displays in public libraries to reach youngsters on summer break. Fox also urged exhibitors to try to rope in college students in language suggesting that this was a flick meant to be seen in an altered state: “If ever a motion picture was guaranteed to catch and send the imagination of college students soaring, it’s ‘Star Wars.’ ” Figuratively or through a cloud of smoke, the audience soared, and so did the box-office receipts. The film was a smash, conquering the public and critics — in May 1977, Time crowned it the year’s best — and remained in theaters throughout 1977, reopening in ’78 and in successive years. (Most studio movies now are in theaters for about four months.)’

'Mr. Lucas’s true genius may be in marketing, including of his vision. Like other filmmakers who came of age in the 1960s, when American directors became auteurs, he has strong views on authorship. In a 1997 interview with Wired, he addressed the studios’ and artists’ rights, arguing that a copyright should belong to “the artist” of a film and not the large corporation that owns it. “I solved the problem by owning my own copyright,” Mr. Lucas said, “so nobody can screw around with my stuff. Nobody can take ‘Star Wars’ and make Yoda walk, because I own it.” When asked about the changes that he had made to his earlier work, including to “Star Wars,” he said: “It’s my artistic vision. If I want to go back and change it, it’s my business, not somebody else’s.”

He could not be more wrong. If the past four decades have made anything clear, “Star Wars” the phenomenon doesn’t belong to Mr. Lucas or a studio, no matter what the copyright states: It is owned by the fans who — aided and abetted by him and his expansive empire — turned it into a sensation, a passion, a cult and, for some, a lifestyle. In 1977, when the first movie opened, a fan could buy tie-in promotional toys, T-shirts, posters, masks, books, comics and children’s costumes. And no wonder: It was a film, as Mr. Lucas said in 1980, written with “visions of R2-D2 mugs and little windup robots.” As the decades and sequels opened and closed, those mugs and toys multiplied into a seemingly infinitely expanding emporium of desire, a “Star Wars” alternative reality in which you could live, play (online and off) and dream.

In its narrative simplicity — its good versus evil morality, its cheerfully blank hero and bang-bang action — “Star Wars” became the ultimate toy, one that fans could spin in all sorts of directions. Its universe was at once specific and so broad that it inspired fan fiction in every imaginable form, tone and medium from comics to novels and movies. Years before the popularization of the idea of participatory culture, a term for those who are at once pop-culture consumers and contributors, “Star Wars” fans had staked their claim on this world. That engagement sometimes took Mr. Lucas aback. “It’s always amazing to me when people take them so seriously,” he is quoted as saying in Dale Pollock’s essential book “Skywalking” (1983). His movies, Mr. Lucas also said then, are “kind of dumb.” (In turn, the fans have lashed out at him, including for digitally fiddling with “A New Hope.”)

In the years since, Mr. Lucas has clearly embraced his destiny as a force. And while it may seem strange, given his hatred of the studios, that he sold Lucasfilm to Disney in 2012, he found it a perfect home. Mr. Lucas helped shape modern conglomerate cinema, to borrow a term from Mr. Schatz, but it was Disney that really pioneered cradle-to-grave entertainment. In 1929, Walt Disney sold the rights to use Mickey Mouse (soon called the “million dollar mouse”) on children’s writing tablets, signing his first licensing contract a year later. “The sale of a doll to any member of a household,” Roy Disney, Walt’s brother, said, “is a daily advertisement in that household for our cartoons and keeps them all ‘Mickey Mouse Minded.’ ” As it turns out, though, the real Force is the mouse that roared.’

Reorganising Star Wars Fanedits

Bobson Dugnutt said:

This is something that I’ve had on my mind for a while so I thought I’d type it up. I think the Star Wars fanedits and preservations needs a bit of a clean up and reorganisation.

There’s a lot of threads in both categories, well over 1,000, as there are a lot of users, but it means everything is mixed in together. Ideas for edits, edits in the works, completed edits, inactive and unfinished edits and requests are all put together, meaning it can be a pain to navigate at times.

A lot of threads end up becoming simply request chains with everyone asking for the same thing over and over for years while the edit is in development and after its completion. It clogs things up and stops discussion. I’d propose that we make a separate section simply for requests and trying to minimise that kind of post as many people sign up just to request popular works such as Adywan, Harmy and Hal9000, even though there are detailed guides by now on how to get your hands on them. People often double up and makes posts in threads and threads of their own to ask for them with the ever popular Markdown default text as they don’t bother with a body text. Also I think it should be more common to ask through PMs as those posts really clog things up. This is the one thing that drives me up the wall more than anything as I open a thread looking for some legitmate discussion, and find a chain of requests.

I’d like to split the ideas/in the works edits from the completed edits, but I don’t know how viable that is. Beacuse I can rarely tell if an edit is done or not based on the title and first post. It often takes some digging for me to see if the edit is official done and released, or still needs some work done. There is often just a jumble of new TROS or TLJ edits and it’s hard to see what their status is if any as many edits have one post and then are subsequently abandoned/ I know there are index threads, but everything is still mixed in together. The new IDEAS tagging is pretty good as now I can telling something is just a conception and I feel this is a good step in the right direction.

I do caution against too many subcategories though, since there is no real search, people won’t know where things belong, so either we will get lots of duplicate posts, or else topics will just go dead as less eyes get into the various sub-forums.

Sorry for the garble, but I felt it should be said over here instead of FE where I had originally put it.

Yeah… when the mods see you posted it on FE in the ‘OT Renegades Voyeur thread’ - where the old clique congregate to take pot shots at this site - before posting it on here… this reads like a wind up, or an attempt at one.

The moderators at FE deserve credit for removing some of the more barbed and incendiary potshots at this site too - in an attempt to keep the peace.

ooj has already been through the ‘Toys and Memorabilia’ forum and sorted that out - including a new Index for it. As he has done for the ‘SW Preservation’, ‘SW Fan Edits’ and ‘Fan Edits’ sections. He is due to start work on Preservations soon too (it looks like he already has).

Threads have already been relabelled as ‘Ideas’, ‘Info’, ‘Info Wanted’, ‘Help Wanted’, (unfinished projects) - with more added to ‘discussion /idea thread’ index or sections, ‘Help: looking for…’, or a mix of each depending on the thread content. Finished project threads have been left alone - so it is easier to distinguish what is a project - and what isn’t.

That’s around just shy of 7,000 threads he has been through (or will when he finishes).

The Index threads seem to have been updated and added to - and even unfinished projects with useful information have been added to the ‘discssion / idea’ sections. ooj says they may be of interest and help others loooking into projects for the future, and record the efforts on here - even if they weren’t finished or released.

The ‘markdown’ posts which were all over the place on here have been removed (for the most part) - as have many double and triple posts.

Multiple request threads for ‘where are the Despecialized Edits?’ have been merged into a mega thread, along with ‘how-to and help’ questions - and are no longer prevalent through the forums here.

Reading through that FE thread - people seem to have forgot the ‘Star Wars’ section was also split up so it made things easier to find (and ooj says for some people to ignore what they didn’t like). 5000 threads in one forum? Now split into more relevant sections - so it seems the mods didn’t ‘lose their mojo’ after splitting Off Topic?

I don’t know about you but the mods seem more on the ball too - replying to PMs, requests, dealing with trolls, socks, people behaving like dicks. It is certainly a more civil place - without the old clique piling into threads and projects to judge & derail them now at FE.

Bobson, if you’re being genuine and not taking the piss, then I am truly sorry and deeply apologise. Though you may want to have a look around again at the things you have issues with. Posting that on FE, and then this on here… reads like you are taking the piss out of the mods on here. The timing of this, especially as ooj was apparantly the mod a few people now at FE had issues with (and still takes jibes & digs at) - and just so happens to be in the process of finishing up a re-organisation of the Fan Project forums… sucks. That’s not even taking into account you saying ‘this is something that I’ve had on my mind for a while now’…

Maybe asking fan editors or preservationists to keep their fan project threads (and titles) updated is a better or simpler idea? Or for them to let the site moderators know when a project is no longer happening, or that circumstances have changed?

The OT seems to be more laid back than FE in its organisation - yet both are great places and have different outlooks and setups - which is good that we are lucky enough to choose from and enjoy both (and include the FanRes and TSWT in that too) - all diverse and different. We should appreciate that - not knock each other for it.

Me? I don’t know how or why they do it - let alone put up with the shit thrown their way - the mods on here, FE, or anywhere, that is. I’m not even sure why I bothered typing this up - it’ll likely lead to arguments, division and old wounds - sorry mods! (please delete this post if you wish)

This site makes no sense, please help me get the despecialized editions

How_do_I download_them? said:

Yeah thanks for telling me to be patient after i’ve spent over 3 hours trying to figure this bullshit out.

You can take your patience and shove it up your ass…

It is in nearly every link that oojason has posted!

Did you want a big red button that says ‘download here’?

Because the reasons why that can’t happen on here is also listed in the links given to you… the same links which you didn’t have the patience to read in the first place - that you thought gave you “0 help” 😃

If only there was some sort of ‘The Ultimate Introductory Guide to Harmy’s Star Wars Trilogy Despecialized Editions’ linked somewhere with all the necessary information…

Or there was a thread containing 3/4 other different ways to obtain the ‘Despecialized Edits’ mentioned…

Hang on… there are! And have already listed above by someone who took the time to help you out and direct you to someuseful threads - and you kicked off at him! Then came back later to give out some more!


Edit - I see the mods deleted your ‘fuck off and die’ follow up post made with a new account.

You'd think they'd clean this up - the unfixed issues of the 2004 OT SE DVD release...

Gonk-DB94 said:

I know this has been discussed elsewhere, though I feel it is worth highlighting in this thread too (and for the 2011 and 2019 ‘what have they still not fixed?’ threads):

Never forget that the Death Star has been in clear site of Yavin IV from the beginning of the battle since 1997 and this is how the Special Edition should have ended.’ -

It is how George always wanted it - or something like that? 😉

And he is sorry that you fell in love with the unfinished version which was in the unfinished film for 20 years, but that is how he wants it since 1997, and how it should have always been. [cough]

Even for other Star Wars films he did not make or direct, and has made alterations to since…

Disney+ streaming platform : <strong>Star Wars content</strong> &amp; various other info

’Disney+ adds lost Luke Skywalker scene to Star Wars: A New Hope’ (only to the extras, but still): (with video)

'A deleted scene from Star Wars: A New Hope has been retrieved and added to the extras on Disney+.

Mark Hamill has explained why the deleted scene was crucial to the character of Luke Skywalker, in conversation with Joe and Anthony Russo for their Russo Bros. Pizza Film School series.’

I hope Mark Hamill explains why the scenes cut from the unaltered theatrical version of the OT to make way for Special Edition changes are important too - and gets them cleaned up and added as well 😉

Should I watch the prequels on DVD or Disney+?

StarkillerAG said:

ray_afraid said:

You probably just shouldn’t watch em at all.
Easy fix.

Or maybe you could actually be helpful instead of using this thread as an excuse to hate on the prequels.
Even easier fix.

Back on topic though, I think Disney+ is the best way to watch the prequels. The colors are much better than on the DVDs, and it’s in much higher quality than DVD could possibly manage.

Was Ray not just joking around? A bit of dry humour.


Disney+ versions for me, OP. Though as stated above have a look schorman’s project and a few of the other Prequel projects on here too 😃

4K77 and 83 (DRM)

A little below your post in here, has the information you’d likely need…

Some info & help for TN1’s 4K77, 4K80 & 4K83 projects of the Original Trilogy…

Basicaly, go to the forums on - read the rules and requirements, register, be patient, have a look around, and you’ll find the information you need to acquire these quality projects 👍

All the best with it.

<strong>Empire Strikes Back</strong> - 'Behind The Scenes / Making Of' <strong>images</strong> thread

oojason said:

canofhumdingers said:

Hey I just noticed someone snuck a Rancor photo in here!

Hah! I win £5 😉 - you hear that Fated, mate? I told you someone would notice before the month was out 😃

Damn it! 😃

I should have reached out to canofhumdingers and offered him a slice of the action in exchange for his silence 😉

Is it Lucas, or Fox, who has prevented the restored OOT release?

crissrudd4554 said:

Nien Nunb said:

Fated-Dualist said:

'Mr. Lucas said that to release the original versions of these films on Blu-ray was “kind of an oxymoron because the quality of the original is not very good.”

“You have to go through and do a whole restoration on it, and you have to do that digitally,” he added. “It’s a very, very expensive process to do it. So when we did the transfer to digital, we only transferred really the upgraded version.”

I still find it hard to imagine George saying all this with a straight face. Even he has be aware of how stupid this sounds. Despite no longer being in charge of Lucasfilm, I’m sure by now he also has to be at least somewhat aware of recent fan preservation efforts and the significant advancements that have been made since those statements, which have completely disproven his argument.

Keep in mind we are talking about the guy who in 2012 was insistent that Greedo “always” shot first with the confusion being the original had the sequence in closeups. Sure George.

George also forgot about the original scripts and novelisation being quite clear that only one person at the table got off a shot from their blaster… and it sure wasn’t poor Greedo 😃

'Star Wars: Squadrons' - video game

Star Wars: Squadrons New Details on the Playable Maps’:- - at the Star Wars Explained youtube channel. (5 minutes.)

I really enjoy this guy’s breakdown videos - insightful and factual - without the drama, hype, clickbait, and rage etc that many other youtubers out there have or use.

Hopefully we’ll see some more ships over time for the game (maybe as unlockables?) - I’d love to see the B-Wing and possibly some older ships from the Clone Wars era somewhere down the line for it.

Articles &amp; info that highlight / call for a classic version release of the Original Trilogy

A last (definitive) Original Star Wars update for a while’:- - a 2017 article

A snippet a screenshot of the article…

^ the four links featured in the article above are to…

‘yesterday’s post’ :

‘read on here’ : - it just links back to the full article

Harmy’s Star Wars Despecialized Editions ‘here’ 1 :

Harmy’s Star Wars Despecialized Editions ‘here’ 2 :

Is it Lucas, or Fox, who has prevented the restored OOT release?

JadedSkywalker said:

The last i heard it was an oxymoron to release the Original. That was Lucas final word on the subject in 2011 or was it 2010. It was around the time of the blu ray release. The other thing he said was there were pipelines for these things or some other BS.

The ‘oxymoron’ thing you refer to is George saying this?:-

'Mr. Lucas said that to release the original versions of these films on Blu-ray was “kind of an oxymoron because the quality of the original is not very good.”

“You have to go through and do a whole restoration on it, and you have to do that digitally,” he added. “It’s a very, very expensive process to do it. So when we did the transfer to digital, we only transferred really the upgraded version.”

^ source: ‘Star Wars’ Films Coming to Blu-ray Next Year’ - 2010 article based on a telephone interview with George Lucas for the NY Times.

That seems to be another disingenuous statement from George given what we know now - and what has also been achieved by fans in their preservation projects.

Along with the possibility of backwards engineering the ‘new’ 1997 SE based master (used as the base for the 2019 SE version) to include the unaltered theatrical version footage - as just one possible ‘quick and easy’ solution - IF indeed there were no good quality OOT copies or backups made.

The Empire Strikes Back - at 40...

'Disney to Release 4K Version of ‘Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back’ to Boost U.K. Cinemas:-

"The Force is with U.K. cinemas this July as they plan to reopen doors with a remastered 4K edition of “Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back,” Variety can reveal.

It’s understood the planned screenings mark the first time a “Star Wars” film from the original trilogy will be screened to cinema audiences in 4K. European cinema giant Vue will show the film in the U.K."


"Variety understands “The Empire Strikes Back” is, in fact, among a number of titles Disney is offering U.K. exhibitors, who are eyeing a July 4 reopening date.

The country’s cinemas are among the last businesses to open as part of the government’s economic recovery plan. When they do restart, it will have been more than three months since they were first shuttered across the week of March 16."

more text in the linked article - seems to infer it will be the 2019 SE version being shown.

I imagine this is part of the Empire’s 40th Anniversary? (IF true) / with an attempt to get people going back to the cinemas due to the recent closure due to the coronavirus?

Though a little strange they are only putting up The Empire Strikes Back for release on the big screen?

(IF the article is correct)

Articles &amp; info that highlight / call for a classic version release of the Original Trilogy

The Disney/Fox Merger is Done; Is a Re-Release of the STAR WARS Original Trilogy Theatrical Cut Next?’:- - 2019 article.

a snippet… the full thing (it is not very long):-

"Last week Disney completed its multi-billion dollar merger with Fox. From an entertainment perspective, one of the main focuses has been on the effect the merger will have on the X-Men and Marvel franchises. For many of us, however, there is a much bigger, burning question. Now that Disney owns 20th Century Fox, will we finally get a re-release of the Star Wars original trilogy theatrical cut?

For years fans have been begging for the studio to re-release the original trilogy theatrical cut. Hopes ran high that it would happen when George Lucas sold Lucasfilm to Disney a little over six years ago. Unfortunately, at the time 20th Century Fox retained the rights to Star Wars (A New Hope, that is), and that was that. Plus, Kathleen Kennedy has never made re-issuing the original trilogy theatrical cut a priority. But things have changed. With the merger now complete, and given the state of the Star Wars fandom, now is the perfect time to make the move.

It’s Time to Re-Release the Original Trilogy Theatrical Cut

We’re living in an age where the Star Wars fandom is practically split down the middle. That is thanks in most part to Rian Johnson and his controversial take on Star Wars with The Last Jedi. While expectations are high that Star Wars: Episode IX may narrow that gap, it’s no given. If there is one thing that can bring balance to the For…er, fandom, it’s the original trilogy theatrical cut.

Ask even a casual Star Wars fan “who shot first?” and the universal answer is Han Solo. Likewise, mention the nonsensical musical number in the Return of the Jedi Special Edition and see what kind of reaction you get. Don’t get us started on adding Hayden Christensen’s Anakin Skywalker as a Force ghost. George Lucas forgot an important, old adage when it came to Star Wars: “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Releasing the original trilogy theatrical cut to Blu ray now could heal a lot of old wounds when it comes to the Star Wars fandom.

Fast forward to 2020. Can you just imaging an ultimate Skywalker Saga box set that contains the original trilogy theatrical cut? Based on the sales of that alone Disney wouldn’t have to make another Star Wars film ever again. (Note to Disney: even if you release the unaltered OT, please don’t stop making Star Wars movies.)

Star Wars: Episode IX hits theaters December 20. Here’s hoping the original, unedited trilogy returns with it."

Articles &amp; info that highlight / call for a classic version release of the Original Trilogy

^ Nice one, Vin - I wasn’t sure if you wanted to include the Disney acquisition in here 😃



Disney Has Acquired Fox; What Does that Mean for Star Wars?’:-

Rev up the iconic fanfare, because Disney has officially completed their acquisition of 21st Century Fox. While the main perks of the deal benefit the Marvel Cinematic Universe way more than Star Wars, there are some Star Wars-related tidbits that are tied to the deal itself that are worth discussing here – and one thing that definitely won’t happen. - 2019 article

a snippet…

"Let’s start by clearing up a big misconception right off the bat: no, we are not getting the original theatrical trilogy. For those of you unaware, there has been a long-running fan conspiracy that Lucasfilm are set to release remastered, unaltered versions of the first three Star Wars movies (A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi) before George Lucas went back to edit them any day now for the over two decades. In spite of that hope becoming more and more of a pipe dream since Lucas released the initial versions of the Star Wars Special Editions and their plethora of changes (some controversial, some deemed unnecessary, and a few actually praised), the belief that Lucasfilm are waiting for the right time to release the unaltered versions of the movies has persisted, and has gained new life with Disney’s purchase of Lucasfilm and Fox alike.

The thing is, ownership of Lucasfilm and Fox are not what what’s keeping the old versions of the movies from seeing the light of day in an official capacity; George Lucas himself is. And he’s repeatedly stated that he wants those changes to stay put. When he threw fans a bone in the early 2000s with DVD versions of the original versions, it turned out to be not what fans were hoping for when it was really just the LaserDisc version of the movies ported over to DVD, without any actual remastering of the visual or audio quality put into place. That alone should indicate what his position on his old versions of the movies are – in spite of the preference of the fans, he feels that the revision of Return of the Jedi that has Darth Vader shout “No!” and a celebration of the Emperor’s death across the galaxy far, far away instead of just on Endor is the definitive version of the film. Unless he suddenly changes his mind (and, sure, he’s flip-flopped plenty of times before, but this is one subject he’s remained steadfast on for over twenty years), we’re not going to get official remastered versions of the original cuts of those films anytime soon, if ever."

Evidence has surfaced suggesting that Lucasfilm have internally decided to remaster the original, unaltered prints – from of footage that made it to the theater to footage included as deleted scenes on the DVD and Blu-Ray versions and some footage that has still not seen the light of day – but it appears to be for their use only. It appears that this played a role in how they were able to integrate unused footage of Red and Gold Leaders into the final battle sequence of Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, or how they were able to include a slightly different take of Princess Leia’s plea for help in The Last Jedi to suit the shot that Rian Johnson filmed with Mark Hamill and Jimmy Vee. But don’t expect the unedited clips that were actually featured in the original trilogy movies to see the light of day.

The plus side is that, if you know where to look, Lucasfilm has seemingly agreed to turn a blind eye toward fans creating their own remasters of the original movies as long as they’re not sold for profit. Technically, distributing that kind of stuff is not legal, but it appears that Lucasfilm are not going to feed you to their Rancors if you burn these versions onto the Blu-ray discs that you’ve purchased. Just to be clear, we’re not encouraging that you do kind of thing and we respect Lucas’s own wishes… But if you want to see high-quality versions of the original Star Wars trilogy as it appeared to audiences in the late 1970s and early 1980s, with some visual effects mistakes from the old versions fixed without anything else being changed, then they are out there."