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Which is considered canon, the Special Edition or GOUT?

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I would like to know which is canon because I heard from somewhere that Episode VII will be like a "direct" sequel n continue to follow the traditions of the unaltered versions. While the Special Edition connects with the Prequels....

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I'm sure George would consider the Special editions his definitive version of the films, but aside from Hayden appearing as a force ghost, and Han Shot First . There really is nothing in the Special Editions that contradicts the original unaltered cuts of the film.

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The SE ending of ROTJ provides a massive change.  We see celebrations on various planets; including Coruscant, during which we are led to believe that the Empire has fallen.

In the GOUT, we merely see a small celebration on the moon of Endor.  There is no reason to believe the Empire has been completely overthrown. For all we know, someone could have simply stepped into Palpatine's shoes and taken control of the remaining fleet.

EP VII could very well see a continuation of the Empire (in some form), and therefore be a follow-up to the GOUT, rather than the SE.

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kane1138 said:

The SE ending of ROTJ provides a massive change.  We see celebrations on various planets; including Coruscant, during which we are led to believe that the Empire has fallen.

It implies it, but it's not for sure. Riots can last for a night, but that doesn't mean the government's done.

In the GOUT, we merely see a small celebration on the moon of Endor.  There is no reason to believe the Empire has been completely overthrown. For all we know, someone could have simply stepped into Palpatine's shoes and taken control of the remaining fleet.

The tone of the end of ROTJGOUT makes the same implication as the ROTJSE, even without the riotous imagery.

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Nominally, I believe the 2011 Blu-Rays are considered canon. But if the Empire is still around, they could quickly come up with a retcon for that. In the EU novels (thinking back to the Rogue Squadron books), I'm pretty sure the celebrations shown in the SEs were referred to as a minor uprising that was quickly quelled.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Whichever set Disney releases with their logo on it will be official canon. Until then it's the 2011 Blu-Rays. 

I am what all Jedi fear to become, and what all Sith wish to be. A GOD!

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Episode VII probably won't specifically follow either version. It will probably only reference stuff that all versions of the OT share in common.

At the most we'll get a "Han shot first" joke, a wink to the audience.

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I belive I saw Pablo Hidalgo or someone of that nature outline what was canon and the SEs were what was counted. Which will suck once we see Boba again somewhere down the line with that lame deadpan voice.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Stepping softly in a danger zone…

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This is why I'll be absolutely shocked if, in addition to a restored OOT, they don't also release a polished "final cut" of the SE by the time ep7 hits. The 2004/2011 master is a joke at this point.

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You know who doesn't give a shit about "canon"?

Everybody involved in the production, marketing and distribution of anything in the Star Wars franchise.  It's all just made up as they go along.

The only people who care about "canon" have no official position or affiliation with the actual creators of the unending river of schlock.  In other words, there is no "official canon".  The only people who try to foist a "canon" interpretation are obsessive, completest fanboys who, much like students of theology, will always have an enormous, incoherent, internally contradictory morass of bullshit to engage, in a vain and goofy quixotic mission to make meaningful that which is meaningless.

Ever since Stale Bores - Episode the First: The Random Premise, the whole "universe" has been hopelessly inconsistent and intertextually irreconcilable.

There is no canon--only more nonsense.

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Darth Id said:

The only people who try to foist a "canon" interpretation are obsessive, completest fanboys who, much like students of theology, will always have an enormous, incoherent, internally contradictory morass of bullshit to engage, in a vain and goofy quixotic mission to make meaningful that which is meaningless.

You atheists never stop talking about God.

Divergent Universes
Dreams of a Randy Git-Fiend
32833-3825478+4665-32WG=6652766

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Darth Id said:

You know who doesn't give a shit about "canon"?

 No, but I know three people who have not been in my kitchen.

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Darth Id said:

You know who doesn't give a shit about "canon"?

Everybody involved in the production, marketing and distribution of anything in the Star Wars franchise.  It's all just made up as they go along.

There is no canon--only more nonsense.

 I'm amazed at just how wrong you can be in one post. Lucasfilm has always had a thing for "canon." George Lucas never did of course but everyone else there loves the concept for whatever reason.

Which is why after he left they setup an entire department, The Lucasfilm Story Group, that is solely dedicated to overseeing all future Star Wars projects. First to shape where the franchise is going and second to make sure none of the various projects disagree with one another.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Stepping softly in a danger zone…

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Tobar said:

Darth Id said:

You know who doesn't give a shit about "canon"?

Everybody involved in the production, marketing and distribution of anything in the Star Wars franchise.  It's all just made up as they go along.

There is no canon--only more nonsense.

 I'm amazed at just how wrong you can be in one post. Lucasfilm has always had a thing for "canon." George Lucas never did of course but everyone else there loves the concept for whatever reason.

Methinks he was just using the subject as an excuse to start bitching about Christianity. I can think of no other reason for the pointless tirade against theologists.

Divergent Universes
Dreams of a Randy Git-Fiend
32833-3825478+4665-32WG=6652766

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Tobar said:

Darth Id said:

You know who doesn't give a shit about "canon"?

Everybody involved in the production, marketing and distribution of anything in the Star Wars franchise.  It's all just made up as they go along.

There is no canon--only more nonsense.

 I'm amazed at just how wrong you can be in one post. Lucasfilm has always had a thing for "canon." George Lucas never did of course but everyone else there loves the concept for whatever reason.

Methinks he was just using the subject as an excuse to start bitching about Christianity. I can think of no other reason for the pointless tirade against theologists.

Religion aside, I agree with Id that fictional canon is a terible concept.

kane1138 said:

The SE ending of ROTJ provides a massive change.  We see celebrations on various planets; including Coruscant, during which we are led to believe that the Empire has fallen.

In the GOUT, we merely see a small celebration on the moon of Endor.  There is no reason to believe the Empire has been completely overthrown. For all we know, someone could have simply stepped into Palpatine's shoes and taken control of the remaining fleet.

EP VII could very well see a continuation of the Empire (in some form), and therefore be a follow-up to the GOUT, rather than the SE.

Excellent point. Then again, a future SE could easily go back to the original ending.

DuracellEnergizer said:

The SE should definately be cannonized.

One of the greatest posts in the history of the internet.

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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DuracellEnergizer said:

The SE should definately be cannonized.

 Epicness

Darth Id said: The only people who try to foist a "canon" interpretation are obsessive, completest fanboys who, much like students of theology, will always have an enormous, incoherent, internally contradictory morass of bullshit to engage, in a vain and goofy quixotic mission to make meaningful that which is meaningless.

 That is the most bizarre comparison I've seen about the topic haha

DuracellEnergizer said:

You atheists never stop talking about God.

 I do stop if is not related to the subject :p

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I don't think there is ''A canon'' but points of view. ''MY canon'' is Harmy's DEED or GOUT

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Darth Id said:

 Stale Bores - Episode the First: The Random Premise

There is no canon--only more nonsense.

Best mocking title I have seen in years.

The problem is, w/o canon, the story loses its integrity.  And then if anything is up for grabs, we can't get invested into it. 

which was the exact point you were making, but anyways ;)

click here if lack of OOT got you down

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In that case the cannon should be OOT only, everything after that (SE, PT) actually destroys the integrity of the story despite that some people consider them canon as well.

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walking_carpet said:

Darth Id said:

 Stale Bores - Episode the First: The Random Premise

There is no canon--only more nonsense.

Best mocking title I have seen in years.

The problem is, w/o canon, the story loses its integrity.  And then if anything is up for grabs, we can't get invested into it. 

which was the exact point you were making, but anyways ;)

I have no problem getting invested in stories that don't have a "canon".

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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I'm guessing officially it's probably the SE still, as it was when George was in charge, but I would be surprised if Disney did anything that'd contradict either version.

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I think the issue is where to draw the line of ''canon'' and that's a line each one draws differently, there are arguments for every one of those lines as well so :P

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Fang Zei said:

This is why I'll be absolutely shocked if, in addition to a restored OOT, they don't also release a polished "final cut" of the SE by the time ep7 hits. The 2004/2011 master is a joke at this point.

If there is a "final cut", all I ask is that the 1997 ROTJ ending is restored (meaning Vader doesn't say no, Naboo doesn't appear, the Jedi Temple doesn't appear, and Shaw as ghost Anakin).

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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Star Wars:

*R2 does not have the ability to teleport behind rocks.

*Tatooine doesn't have magic rocks that appear out of thin air.

*Obi-Wan doesn't make noises like THAT.

*Greedo doesn't shoot first.

*Jabba doesn't send incompetent bounty hunters that miss at point blank range.

*Jabba doesn't send bounty hunters to kill Han, then let him off the hook.

*Jabba doesn't let Han step on him.

 

The Empire Strikes Back:

*The Emperor doesn't explain something to Vader they both already know.

*Vader doesn't act like a teenage girl coming home after curfew and feign ignorance lying to Palpatine's face.

*Vader doesn't calmly say "alert my star destroyer blah blah blah" when he's seething with rage.

 

Return of the Jedi:

*Jabba isn't the type to let bad fake looking CGI performers entertain him.

*Vader doesn't attempt standup comedy when he throws human batteries down into reactor shafts.

*Cities don't celebrate the destruction of their own military bases.

*Luke doesn't have visions of creepy pedophile looking teenagers he's never met before.

I might be missing some, but as you can see, the SE versions tamper with the original films in significant ways.