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What's missing from GOUT

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What's missing from GOUT

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9890/02401400jh7.jpg

That frame is missing from GOUT


Looks like DC might be missing a field


Faces has both of those fields comprising frame 2:40:14:00 - the frame with the guy's hand nearly "touching his hair"

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3931/5158vq6.png
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3103/5159rs7.png
dark_jedi Faces (interlaced)

Here's those two fields after re-assembly
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4083/29580sb6.png
Faces frame from MeBeJedi prototype (IVTCed)


That frame shouldn't be missing from GOUT

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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What's missing from X0 timecode V3.03

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6119/01491418mv8.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/844/70632wt5.png
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2986/01491420ul0.jpg



Center frame is missing from Difinitive Collection. Completely missing. Not even one field of that frame is present on DC.


Japanese Special Collection ('86), Widescreen Edition ('89) "shrinking ratio", Widescreen Edition ('92) fixed ratio
each contains only one field of that frame.


Faces contains both fields (together, not split by telecine)

Faces frame from MeBeJedi prototype (IVTCed)
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1396/31854rh2.png

Faces frame from dark_jedi (interlaced)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1008/32215aj6.png


It's a splice point. It's got yellow tape across the top. Nevertheless, it's a frame of film worthy of preservation.
I believe it should be inserted into X0 timecode V3.04 and beyond....

DC's 3:2 cadence is broken at that point with that frame missing.
However, once that frame is restored in its proper position, then 3:2 cadence is restored across the splice,
and also consistent with Faces cadence across the splice.

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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If am to understand that this refers to frames that are absent on the GOUT, all but the first one (of the Falcon interior) coincide with the spots where the AC3 audio dropped sych with the PCM audio from the DC/Faces set - requiring removal of material from the PCM to realign. Are you certain about the first one, as there seem to be no discrepancies with the two soundtracks at this spot?
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Yes, an explanation to go along with your screenshots would help.

At first glance, I believe both of your first two screenshots are cadence changes in the DC LDs, and there is actually one frame missing from the DC LD one frame before those shots compared to other video releases. I assume those specific frames are missing from the GOUT?

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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I think all of those frames are not only cadence changes, they're LD side changes. LD side changes are usually put where there would be a film reel change. Reel changes are put where a few extra frames here and there won't mess anything up (you will rarely find music playing at a reel change, for example).

How much does a D1 tape hold? 'Cause it could also be that those interlaced half-frames are present like that on the D1 tape.

If I'm understanding correctly, Darth Mallwalker is saying the GOUT has one more frame than the X0 Project (+1:49:14:18 A?). If so, that's not too surprising: it's from something one step above the LDs. However, until the GOUT was released, I don't believe any version was more complete than the DC/Faces LDs. All the PAL versions had more frames missing (mostly the ones with ugly splices -- another reason why the PAL GOUT should have come from the PAL LD masters). Even the SE LDs had more missing frames. Aside from all the added crap, that is.

Looking at the big picture, I guess what Darth Mallwalker has identified shows that the X0 Project is missing exactly one frame with respect to the GOUT, and the GOUT is missing exactly two frames with respect to the X0 Project. Overall, that means the GOUT is one frame shorter than the X0 Project, right?
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The first two DO correspond to side changes referenced to the DC set. However, are those frames also absent from the Faces set? My guess would be no, as I used audio from the Faces to fill in the missing bits between the sides of the DC. So I’m guessing if the audio was there, the missing frames would be too.

For the record, I had to remove a total of 3527 samples at four different points from the PCM track to sample-synch accurately with the GOUT. If I’m not mistaken, this works out to roughly two frames.

Also for the record, only example two (at the transition from side 4 to side 5 in the DC set) corresponds to any of the original reel changeovers (and none on any of the CLV issues). Since the available lengths per side of either a CAV or CLD disc are both greater than that of a typical film reel, the splits in a typical Laserdisc are generally determined irrespective of the reel changeover intervals (unless by happy coincidence one happens to fall in the same place), and usually have more do with loading the disc sides to capacity.
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Originally posted by: Belbucus
Also for the record, only example two (at the transition from side 4 to side 5 in the DC set) corresponds to any of the original reel changeovers
Are you sure they line up ?

To my eyes & ears, it seems like the reel change was here:
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9436/10317dt5.png
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2741/02401017gk6.png


while the DC side change is here:
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8762/5159si7.png
dark_jedi Faces (interlaced) (Ya think ? No, really, it is interlaced)

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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The changeover between reels 5 and 6 occurs exactly at the bottom frame in your post - at the cut between the shot of the R2 unit being lowered into the ship, and the shot looking down on an x-wing (with PA announcement: "All pilots to your stations").
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What SHOULD BE MISSING from X0 timecode V3.04 and later versions

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4915/01565201rz6.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3690/01565202bp2.jpg

Those three fields describe a single frame of film.




Combined with the earlier correction at 49:14:19 (see the second message posted in this thread) we now have:


http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/5057/01565123ya5.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9080/01565200an1.jpg
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9391/01565201qm5.jpg
Last field of DC Side 2
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4425/45933zg6.png
First field of DC Side 3
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3690/01565202bp2.jpg

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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Oh, and Mallwalker, what font is that that you are using? I need a copy of that bad boy.
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You guys have any extra time on your hands?

FE<3OT

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So if the XO is missing a frame, will you be adding it? Not that I think 1 in a million would notice it.
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Er... the X0 Project.

It was past my bed time.
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Found more missing from GOUT

These frames from ROTJ:
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1228/68664.png

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2290/68665.png

It's the tail end of the establishing shot just before Mon Mothma's briefing.
Happens to be the end of a reel too.

Screen caps taken from Editdroid disc.
Now this is puzzling:
If Editdroid used DC laserdiscs, then 'DC master' should also contain those frames, right?
So what's GOUT's excuse for cutting them?
My childhood is raped!

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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Darth Mallwalker said:

My childhood is raped!

So is there a "Godwined" term for when this phrase comes up?

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Darth Mallwalker said:

Now this is puzzling:
If Editdroid used DC laserdiscs, then 'DC master' should also contain those frames, right?
So what's GOUT's excuse for cutting them?
My childhood is raped!

That is really weird.

Anyway, this is a very helpful documentation you've done to making various audio tracks sync correctly.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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They are encoding errors.


What do you mean by "encoding error"?

DE

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What you've described is extremely weird, to the point that (and no offence is intended) I believe you must have be mistaken.

I'm not aware of any circumstances under which you can rip a DVD, load it into, say, VirtualDub-MPEG2, and not see every frame.

Happy to be proven wrong, but if you're only seeing them on your PS3, your PS3 is doing something wacky.

DE

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I watched the GOUT discs and I never noticed those frames were missing. I DO know that the Laserdisc of TESB was missing a scene of Lei welding the Millenium Flacon and that was added back to the GOUT DVD disc.

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I doubt anyone will notice a single missing frame when watching it normally, if you're not a super-human of some sort. ;)

I agree, Darth Editous, that sounds not right.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com