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Torn.... To buy, or not to buy.

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I certainly don't need an additional copy of the 2004 SE DVDs. Now it certainly appears that the "bonus material" original theatrical releases will be made from 1993 LD video masters which are extremely low quality by today's standards, not a high quality transfer from original film elements.

So, do we buy this crap to convince the powers that be that we really want the original theatrical releases with the hopes that perhaps they will eventually produce a better quality transfer if there is enough interest, or do we hold out for a better transfer that certainly Lucas will claim there is no demand for, because noone bought the ones he's releasing now.

Catch 22.
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Unless this is the best goddamn non-anamorphic Laserdisk transfer that we could have ever dreamed of, I wont be (and judging by Lucasfilms' non-effort to actually do a new transfer i dont think this transfer will be too impressive). I will also be writing many letters to LFL and Jim Ward so they know exactly why this release bombed.
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I think sales will be through-the-roof anyway, so if they are sub-par, *I* will be saving my money for a future, better release.

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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I understand why people are upset and I wish it was anamorphic too. Skyranger, I think you have put one of the two key points (IMHO) in your "Catch 22" above. I understand what you mean, but it's not really a Catch 22 as the two outcomes don't oppose each other:
1) Buying it is a plus in that it might help to generate future editions;
2) Not buying it is a minus in that it might help to prevent future editions.
These both suggest you should buy it (because they are essentially saying the same thing).

The second point is that this will be the best available version of the OUT on DVD (albeit not as good as it could be). Taking these two together makes me still want to buy it.
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Well, eventually they WILL have to make another transfer--this version will be impossible to port to HD video. As much as Lucas would like it, the world wont allow the last release of Star Wars to be a 2006 SD DVD from a 1993 Laserdisk master. The question is when--in ten years, five years...or next year with the 2007 boxset.
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I'd like to believe that they will make a new transfer for HD video. However, there's nothing to suggest that the OUT will ever be released on an HD format. Sure, it might - but I'm not taking any chances.
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Originally posted by: THX
I'd like to believe that they will make a new transfer for HD video. However, there's nothing to suggest that the OUT will ever be released on an HD format. Sure, it might - but I'm not taking any chances.


I'm pretty sure it will, like i said its a question of when--most people understandably dont want to wait that long, especially if its not for another six or seven years.

But really, this release is hardly an improvement over what we already have. The XO project should rival it. I'm not really willing to plunk down 40 bucks for something that gives me a movie i already have on disk one and a movie i already have in nearly equal quality on disk two. I just dont see any point to the release and obviously the purchase of this release.

The only considerations are what effect it will have on Lucasfilms view of the OOT. Considering that its a case of "damned if we do, damned if we dont" I'm going to just do what I should and not purchase them. In the meantime, an agressive letter-writting campaign should clearly dispell the notion that the release was unwanted to Lucasfilm--maybe it will force them to actually give us a proper, newly transfered master a lot sooner if they realise they cant just give us pieces of shit. Honestly--what motivation is there for Lucasfilm to go all out and dig up the old prints of Star Wars if we lap up these table scraps like the starving dogs we are?
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I might buy them if they are a good transfer, but I really don't want the 2004 editions (haven't got them yet and hopefully never will) and I object to having to pay for them in order to get what I really want, I think the alternate theatrical soundtracks would clinch the deal for me (i.e. star wars mono, esb 70mm) I'd really like to have copies with those but it doesn't look likely.
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one of the things I've noticed as an editor is that many of the added things on the SE could just be cut out if the original negative was truely altered in 1993. The only thing that would have to say in is the Mos Eisly conversation in the speeder, the shockwave effect from destroying Alderean and the wierd axis shift with the shockwave effect from destroying the Death Star. The stuff that stays could be covered with LD Stuff or even quality transfers from preserved prints. I could actually do this as an editor, all it takes is getting the equipment together and making the transfer one of quality.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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I am going to wait until people have them and have time to give it proper reviews, then decide whether or not to buy it.

If it is decent and better than anything thus far, sure, I'd be delighted. But if it truley is a ***** ******* **** *******, I'll wait for the XO. (I'll be getting the XO anyway )

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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It very well might never see HD format. What's to say Lucus wont say, "Oh, well the sales weren,t half what they were for the 2004 release, so I guess nobody really ever wanted these old things after all."
And of course they wont sell as well as the 2004 versions, since these are the same thing over again for most people.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I'm bitterly disapointed that it won't me in anamorphic, but I only own a crappy little TV and have very little moneys to buy a nice widescreen TV. Hell, it could be a very long time before I get a new TV. And besides my OCP transfers are great, but it has a dendancy to freeze on other people's DVD players. But they are usually okay on mine.

So in the mean time, I think I'll buy them, but I did send my letter of disapointment to Jim Ward.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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This release will not bomb, it will sell like hot cakes.
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THX,

By catch 22, I meant that if I buy it, I'm spending money on something I don't really want (two really, another copy of the SE, and a garbage copy of the OOT), but if I don't buy it then I may never get what I really want (a high quality transfer of the OOT that lives up to todays technology).

If we don't spend a fortune on this garbage product, Lucas will claim that we never wanted a quality product of the OOT. So we have to buy his trash, hoping that maybe it will convince him to make something good....
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Right, I understood what you meant, and I sympathise entirely, but I also agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph, above, so the decision is made.
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I'm gonna wait for reviews before I make a decision.
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I'm going to be buying this for two reasons:

1) We demanded the OT...which is what we're getting...warts and all. It may not be the transfer that we EXPECTED, but we ARE getting the OT on DVD. To complain that we're not getting the OT the way we would LIKE it to be on DVD only confirms (in GL's mind) that we're just a bunch of whining losers that are impossible to please.

2) The price I found for it is actually quite reasonable ($36 AR for all 3 titles. See my other post). I paid around $45 for the '04 boxset when that came out! If I'd have to pay $45-$90 I'd be upset. I'm dumping my old boxset on Ebay, so I'm not out a load of cash for this release.

I just don' think it's wise/prudent to keep complaining when he IS giving us the OT on DVD. Once this is released, THEN we can start pushing for a better transfer. If nobody buys this version, Lucas will definitely think he did the right thing by not spending the money to spruce the OT up for this release. Everyone writing letters to Lucas and Co. are just wasting their time, IMHO. Sales are the only things that will sway Lucas. Just an opinion of a diehard OT fan...

xpfshost
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Originally posted by: xpfshost
I'm going to be buying this for two reasons:

1) We demanded the OT...which is what we're getting...warts and all. It may not be the transfer that we EXPECTED, but we ARE getting the OT on DVD. To complain that we're not getting the OT the way we would LIKE it to be on DVD only confirms (in GL's mind) that we're just a bunch of whining losers that are impossible to please.

2) The price I found for it is actually quite reasonable ($36 AR for all 3 titles. See my other post). I paid around $45 for the '04 boxset when that came out! If I'd have to pay $45-$90 I'd be upset. I'm dumping my old boxset on Ebay, so I'm not out a load of cash for this release.

I just don' think it's wise/prudent to keep complaining when he IS giving us the OT on DVD. Once this is released, THEN we can start pushing for a better transfer. If nobody buys this version, Lucas will definitely think he did the right thing by not spending the money to spruce the OT up for this release. Everyone writing letters to Lucas and Co. are just wasting their time, IMHO. Sales are the only things that will sway Lucas. Just an opinion of a diehard OT fan...

xpfshost


that exactly what i think, not buying these dvds would be a good way to send the message that we want the OOT in good quality but GL will only use it to say: "see?...nobody wants them! so i'm right!"

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I still cast my vote as planning to buy them, because they are the original versions, and I want the original versions. But I disagree with the logic of buying low-quality products to inspire the release of high-quality products. We're the consumers, damnit! Companies are supposed to compete and pander for our money! We shouldn't just throw it at them in hopes of getting something we want. That's poor consumerism! It's also the same viewpoint that the SE enthusiasts have. "Well, it doesn't matter if there are mistakes on this version, or if the special effects aren't good enough yet. I'll still spend $70 on them, and I'm sure they'll be fixed for the 2007 super special archive holy edition... which I'll also buy!" It's a pretty sad time in the history of economics when consumers become that stupid with their own money. And the sad thing is, I'm in the same pit of despair.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I think I'd just settle for an LD rip and there are a lot of good ones out there. Most people are kind enough to pay it forward so I'm content with doing that also. For those of you that want an animorphic release, ever see Steven King's Storm of the Century?

Ding, dong!
Lucas opens the door. "Yes?"
SW fan. "Give me what I want and I'll go away."

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This is a very tough question, and I am torn on it. Lets assume they are announced as Non-Anamorphic:

In principle I don't want to buy this set, because it aint going to be any better than what we have now in form of our bootlegs, and it is almost insulting that Lucas would even release something with the SW name on it in such bad quality.

However, if this set sells with huge numbers, and comes close to 2004 DVD sales, how could Lucas not release it again?

On the one hand by us not buying it, we are setting a statement that giving us shit, you dont' get our money in return, and the sales suffer, and Lucas comes to the conclusion that it is a niche fanbase that wants these, and he could do without them.

On the other hand we buy them in spades, and finally Lucas realizes there is two SW fanbases that are roughly equal: SE fans/ O-OT fans. So as any smart businessman knows of the next release, you don't want to sell to just one fanbase while alienating the other fanbase who is just as eager to plop down more money. So the future HD-DVD release of the 2007 Saga boxset would have to have both versions in the set to make the maxium cash from the fans.

If Lucas could just put this out in Anamorphic, this decision could be easy, and we could see a true number of fans that want this set. But if it is non-anamorphic, I am still undecided, but out of principle I really am offended by this set.

Do we look short term and not buy it and feel a sense of sticking it to old George, or do we suck it up short term and buy a crap product to keep the long term perspective of HD-DVD and a great remaster?

I'll tell you Sept. 11th.
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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I still cast my vote as planning to buy them, because they are the original versions, and I want the original versions. But I disagree with the logic of buying low-quality products to inspire the release of high-quality products. We're the consumers, damnit! Companies are supposed to compete and pander for our money! We shouldn't just throw it at them in hopes of getting something we want. That's poor consumerism! It's also the same viewpoint that the SE enthusiasts have. "Well, it doesn't matter if there are mistakes on this version, or if the special effects aren't good enough yet. I'll still spend $70 on them, and I'm sure they'll be fixed for the 2007 super special archive holy edition... which I'll also buy!" It's a pretty sad time in the history of economics when consumers become that stupid with their own money. And the sad thing is, I'm in the same pit of despair.


But the problem is that the 'ball' still belongs to Lucas. It's his 'ball' and he can still take his ball and go home if we don't play. He's already made all the money anyone would ever need off these movies. So what if nobody buys the new releases? Just proves him right that nobody wants it and he can lock them away for good. If he was cash-strapped, our wallet would have a vote. Of course, if we play now, he wouldn't think twice about gaining MORE money in the future with a better transfer/release of the OT, would he? You gotta pay to play. Sucks, don't it?

xpfshost

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I was planning on getting these for the principle of it, but after reading about a potential angle involving Lucas's ex-wife, I think the principle might not even be there. If the deciding factor to go ahead and make the special edition *AND* to make the OOT not exist anymore is to cut Marcia out of the payroll, then it kind of makes me or anyone else buying these things seem like a non-issue. That is, I think this edition could break sales records that will last for fifty years and it won't matter. Lucas has reasons beyond merely prefering the SE versions and thinking of them as the "definitive" versions of these movies.
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Yeah, it be possible that Lucas just doesn't want to release the originals just becuase his ex-wife cut SW. It perfectly makes sense and if you saw Empire of Dreams you know their was a very small part focusing on the editors, including Marcia (duuh), and at the end about his deforce. Also GL never gave a "real" reason why he didn't wanted to release the O-OT and "They don't exsist anymore to me" exept his "This are the movies as I intended them to be" (really, do you BELIEVE this sh*t?) If thats the real reason that he doesn't release the O-OT (in GOOD quality) then GL is just a whining little kid that punishes everybody when he doesn't get what he wants
.: Revenge of the Jedi 0.83 MS Edition :.