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An ‘info thread’ covering just a few of George Lucas’ gaslighting and divisive comments made to / about fans over the years…
| Introduction… |
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Featured here are just 15+ examples of these such divisive and gaslighting claims from George down the years - please feel free to post up any more - or post up your own takes on George’s divisive and gaslighting statements and claims over time.
It goes without saying… everyone’s mileage will vary on many of these. Click on ‘Expand’ to see more information for each claim.
Also included here are a handful of associated topics - either evolving or resulting from George’s diversionary comments.
There is not really anything new here in this thread - it serves more as just a centralised discussion thread for an easy-to-find reference / reminder / introductory resource for anyone new to George’s many divisive and gaslighting quotes and claims - often used in an attempt to try and deflect away criticism of both himself & his decisions. More of which can be found below…
‘3️⃣ • Ⓑ : Archival / Historical Discussion threads: George Lucas’ section of An Index Thread for Original Trilogy Discussion
“No-one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans” - I’d say few have divided Star Wars fans more than George Lucas has…
| 1. George Lucas being divisive with the altered SE cuts vs the unaltered version - the 2006 GOUT DVD release… |
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“It’s just the original versions, as they were. We didn’t do anything to it at all. But we’re not sure how many people want that… Now we’ll find out whether they really wanted the original or whether they wanted the improved versions. It’ll all come out in the end.” - George Lucas, in 2006.
^ Quite the divisive statement there from George Lucas. Yet George and Lucasfilm already knew and had previously acknowledged how popular the unaltered original cuts release would be…
“the biggest question we’ve ever gotten from Star Wars fans is, ‘When are you going to release the originals?’”the “overwhelming demand” for the unaltered theatrical version.
the “long awaited release of original theatrical incarnations of the classic Star Wars trilogy.”
“over the years a truly countless number of fans have told us they would love to see and own the original version that they remember experiencing in the theatres.”
Unfortunately, as we all later found out, they would be released as ‘bonus discs’ in a repackaged box set of the 2004 Special Editions on DVD. It was presented in an outdated Letterbox format (non-anamorphic); and was sourced from a transfer for a 1993 Laserdisc release - having poor image quality; plagued by poor digital video noise reduction, and with a compressed Dolby Digital 2.0 sound - resulting in a lazy, underwhelming, and substandard quality release - even by 2006 standards.
The following text and images below, along with much more information, are from the following article at the Save Star Wars website:-Got GOUT? The 2006 Original Version DVD Bonus Feature Fiasco
Despite this, and the 2006 GOUT DVDs being originally promoted and sold as a ‘Limited Edition’ release… only being available for a ‘4-month period’ from 12th September 2006 to 31st December 2006… it wasn’t until April 2011 that the 2006 GOUT DVDs actually ceased production (nearly some 5 years later!) - and were still being sold on store shelves up until September 2011; just before the 2011 SE / Saga blu-rays were released.
So it certainly did “all come out in the end”.
^ Not only is there the divisive nature of George’s quote - yet also the use of “improved versions” to denote his 2004 Special Edition cut… something that was certainly not “improved” by any metric - as we see in the next category…
| 2. George gaslighting his fans with bizarre claims of quality; re original cuts vs the later 4 Special Editions… |
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^ 1980 original cut vs 1997 Special Edition; colouring issues (ignore the red circle - it was for denoting something else).
^ 1993 original cut vs 2004SE; not just the colouring issues but also the loss of image detail in the background.
^ 1993 original cut vs 2004SE; not just the colouring issues but also the loss of detail around the dark colours (notably Vader’s belt).
Star Wars DVD Music Mix Botched!! - a ‘Deliberate Creative Decisions’ audio errors thread - by Neil S. Bulk
A little more info on the ‘Deliberate Creative Decisions’… re the audio issues on the 2004 OT SE DVD release…
^ 2006 GOUT DVD (and no… the original cuts did not - and do not - look like that :sigh:)
^ 2011SE blu ray; a fan preservation using 3rd/4th generation theatrical screen print should not be bettering the official release - yet here we are…
^ 2019SE image on the left, 2011SE blu ray image on the right; note the scrubbing away of detail on the left image, with much of the weathering on the droid is lost.
From adywan’s Revisited Edition of the Original Trilogy: Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, & Return of the Jedi… looks to remedy those numerous issues and be a more complete Special Edition release, among many other similar projects that can be found in the Star Wars Fan Edits forum.
^ So for George to claim the various Special Edition releases being the “improved versions” is woefully incorrect and misleading.
To say nothing of George’s recent gaslighting quote of the originals ‘looking terrible’ - like ‘laserdisc’ quality below…
| 3. George’s 2024 gaslighting quote on the originals: ‘it looks terrible’ - akin to ‘laserdisc’ quality… |
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“We did release the original one on laserdisc and everybody got really mad, they said ‘It looks terrible.’ And I said ‘Yeah, I know it did,'” said Lucas. “That is what it looked like.”
^ George Lucas, interviewed at Cannes Film Festival, in 2024.
^ A screenshot from hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/george-lucas-cannes-honor-star-wars-films-1235907998
The complete Cannes interview with George Lucas: www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHXLsHOdPiw^ At 53:08 … the interviewer asks Lucas if he will release the original versions in the future. Lucas drops the “it looks terrible” quote a few seconds later.
An obviously incorrect and disingenuous claim from George. The various Special Editions releases are all based from negatives of the original cuts - and we know various high quality original sources exists at Lucasfilm - to say nothing of IB technicolor prints - and all the original trims removed to make way way for the Special Editions have been digitised and preserved.
More information can be found here (from the ‘Saving Star Wars’ & ‘The Secret History of Star Wars’ websites, respectively):-
From Interpositives to Separation Masters:How Film Preservation Works
Saving Star Wars: The Special Edition Restoration Process and its Changing Physicality
as well as this article by doubleofive, from StarWarsVisComp.com : What We Want And How To Make It
^ So there is no reason at all for George to lie and make such disingenuous gaslighting statements.
Especially when even fan-made preservations and fan-made reconstruction projects already look as gorgeous as this…
Return of the Jedi Despecialized v3.1 Reel 1 Comparison - a 10 minute video from the Harmy Despecialized youtube channel.
| 4. George introducing problems and issues in the Special Edition releases… |
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The claim of ‘George didn’t change the story of the Original Trilogy - just the special effects’… Sorry, that is not true - at all. For example… issues and problems have been introduced via the alterations in the 1997 Special Editions - and since - through to the 2019 SE ‘Maclunkey’ releases…
^ ‘Never forget that the Death Star has been in clear site of Yavin IV from the beginning of the battle since 1997 and this is how the Special Edition should have ended.':-Disney+ Should Offer the Star Wars Original Cuts—All of Them - article at Wired (scroll down to the ‘The Game Breaker’ section).
all credit to doubleofive - for both finding and highlighting that uncorrected oversight - in all four versions of the Special Edition films - and also for the article itself.
Needless to say there are many other changes to the story too - some are slight alterations, whereas others are quite profound in their impact on the story changes. Whilst ‘your mileage may vary’ depending on your point of view, these are still changes to the story…
the addition of the “No-ooooo!” line of dialogue for Vader in Return Of The Jedi…
As well as the redundant and essentially repeated dialogue introduced by inserting the CGI Jabba scene into the 1997 Special Editions - the same dialogue espoused by Greedo in the scene before (something George didn’t think to address or alter)…
Gary Kurtz on the Star Wars Special Edition - at 3 mins and 20 secs… into this 5 minute youtube video.
| 5. Han Shot First: lies and debunked claims from George about ‘Greedo always shot first’… |
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^ A screenshot from the 2004 EW magazine article where George claimed ‘Greedo always shot first’ - and again in 2012:-
and debunked not only by cast and crew who worked on the film - as well as the actual shooting scripts from the film…
…but by doubleofive, too…
Holy crap, I did Greedo Shot First.
https://twitter.com/StarWarsVisComp/status/1168554173136166913
‘Frame by frame comparisons, GIF’s, the whole nine yards. I conclude that the “new” shot is based on a wide shot of Han shooting Greedo. They took the clarifying shot Lucas claims didn’t exist in the 70’s and changed it so Greedo shoots (at different times with different effects). It’s a fun read, hopefully.’
‘In the end, Lucas saying that it was “cobbled together” from “close ups” is false. The shots of Han shooting Greedo were unchanged from the Jympson rough cut. He had the time & technology to use this exact wide shot back then (if Greedo had ever fired on set).’
‘Saying that the fans got the wrong impression of Han for 20 years or implying that they’re bloodthirsty is insulting. Lucas either changed his mind or wanted an excuse for ILM to see if they could make a shot like that look good.’
^ from doubleofive’s superb and comprehensive Complete Comparison of Special Edition Visual Changes info thread.
^ The George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist… thread _(Category Numbers 30 • ‘Han Shot First…’ and 31 • ‘George Lucas claims in 2004 that Han NEVER Shot First…’) may also be of some interest on the issue…
| 6. George altering his 30 year old statements about the Force - to include PT-era invention of midichlorians… |
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George Lucas retconned the term ‘Midichlorians’ into JW Rinzler’s 2007 ‘Making Of Star Wars’ book (page 353) - changing the words and quote he himself had used back in 1977, when explaining some notions regarding ‘the Force’…
The original quote from Lucas’ 1977 interview with Carol Titelman (author of ‘The Art of Star Wars’) is:-
”It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different. The Force is a perception of the reality that exists around us.”
^ a screenshot of the original 1977 quote - from So what the heck are Midichlorians? - 2013 article at the official Star Wars website:-
The retconned quote - amended by George Lucas - and now appearing in JW Rinzler’s 2007 ‘Making Of Star Wars’ book is:-
“It is said certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different; they have more midi-chlorians in their cells. The Force is a perception of the reality that exists around us.”
^ a screenshot from Page 353 of the 2007 book - with George Lucas’ newly altered quote… to now include mention of ‘midi-chlorians’:-
When fans noticed and questioned this retcon… author JW Rinzler later admitted Lucas had changed the original quote, here:-
‘[Please note: While we were preparing the text for The Making of Star Wars, Lucas added a note to this passage about midi-chlorians, bringing his original words in line with his later thoughts and the events of the prequel trilogy.]’
^ a screenshot from the So what the heck are Midichlorians? - a 2013 article at the official Star Wars website:-
^ 'Category #36. ‘Midichlorians and The Force… (a 30 year retcon by George Lucas)’ of the ‘George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist…’ thread may also be of interest for further reading.
| 7. George claiming ‘the Star Wars Saga was always the story of Vader’… |
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George attempting to claim the Saga was always the story of Darth Vader…
‘Creating The Galaxy: Myth Maker And Jedi Master George Lucas In His Own Words’, by Amy Longsdorf. : OT.com ThreadGL: “It’s really a story about Darth Vader. Luke and Leia became central figures and had a strong impact. But I knew if I gave Darth Vader his due, you would understand what a tragic story the whole thing was and it would change the way you look at the other movies. So that’s why I did it.”
And this screenshot below - from this June 2005 interview with Rolling Stone - George Lucas and the Cult of Darth Vader:-
Also, George is on record claiming that the 6-film Star Wars Saga was always meant to be “the tragedy of Darth Vader”:-
‘Making Sith was a piece of cake’ - a 2005 interview with the London Standard. A screenshot of the quote from George:-
GL: “Originally, Star Wars was intended to be one movie - it was designed to be the tragedy of Darth Vader.”
Yet we know from early scripts and annotated screenplays this was not the case. Vader and Luke’s father are indeed two separate characters in early drafts and scripts - even in Leigh Brackett’s 1978’s draft script for Empire Strikes Back… Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader are written as two completely separate characters:-
The Empire Strikes Back – First Draft by Leigh Brackett (1978) - from the ‘Starkiller: The Jedi Bendu Script Site’.
In fact, at the very start of the process for George writing Star Wars back in the 1973… there is no mention of Vader at all. Though there is frequent mentions of a Luke Skywalker:-
The Star Wars (Story Synopsis) (May 1973) - from the ‘Starkiller: The Jedi Bendu Script Site’.
The very first mention of Vader, ‘General Vader’ (a ranking officer in the Empire, but is not a Jedi or a Sith, has no force abilities - and is very different character… before being seemingly merged with three/four other characters written around that time… to eventually become the Vader we recognise from the 1977 film), appears in the May of 1974 - in the Rough Draft of The Star Wars:-
The Star Wars – Rough Draft (May 1974) - from the ‘Starkiller: The Jedi Bendu Script Site’.
George is also on record, in 1977, in his private backstory notes:-
“When the Jedi tried to restore order, Darth Vader was still one of the Jedi. What he would do is catch the Jedi off-guard and, using his knowledge of the Force, he would kill the Jedi without them realizing what was happening. They trusted him and they didn’t realize he was the murderer who was decimating their ranks. At the height of the Jedi, there were several hundred thousand. At the time of the Rebellion, most of them were killed. The Emperor had some strong forces rally behind him, as well, in terms of the army and the Imperial forces that he’d been building up secretly. The Jedi were so outnumbered that they fled and were tracked down. They tried to regroup, but they were eventually massacred by one of the special elite forces led by Darth Vader. Eventually, only a few, including Ben and Luke’s father, were left. Luke’s father is named Annikin.”
^ from JW Rinzler’s 2007 ‘Making Of Star Wars’ book, Page 352. (Not, as sometimes mis-attributed to, the 1977 Rolling Stone article)
Also contrary to George’s claims, in 1976 - George Lucas, author Alan Dean Foster & Star Wars publicist & advertising guru Charles Lippincott - when talking about a sequel film that would become the ‘Splinter Of The Mind’s Eye’ novel…
GL: “The other thing we haven’t dealt with is Darth Vader. But Darth Vader, as we discovered in this picture, tends to be pushy; he’s not strong enough as the villain to hold the villain role. he doesn’t have the persona that you need. You really need a Cushing guy, a really slimy, ugly….”
(As already listed in this thread - we know that Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader were two entirely separate characters… until being retconned in Empire Strikes Back.)
^ The above info (screenshot and text) is taken from the Star Wars Splinter Of The Mind’s Eye Story Conference article - at the Cinetropolis website.
Lucas now claims the 6 Star Wars films ‘form the biography of Vader’… but that he wasn’t aware of this “until 1998”…
A screenshot of a 2005 Vanity Fair article (February issue) promoting Revenge Of The Sith:-
^ ‘Taken as a whole, the six Star Wars movies form the biography of Darth Vader — something Lucas claims he wasn’t consciously aware of “until 1998.”’
George’s own scripts & story synopsis state it is Luke Skywalker - along with novelisations of the film…
Many of the draft scripts for Star Wars were titled ‘Star Wars: The Adventures of Luke Starkiller’ too (before Luke was given the surname ‘Skywalker’ instead), which would seem to confirm the story being about Luke, as can be found at the link below:-Starkiller - The Jedi Bendu Script Site
There is also no mention of Darth Vader at all in the earlier 1973 Story Synopsis - yet a version of the character of Luke features prominently, which can be found at:-
Starkiller - The Jedi Bendu Script Site
Officially released Star Wars novelisations also referred to the ‘Adventures Of Luke Skywalker’ too…
‘Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker’ - archived StarWars•com website link to the novelisation of the film
‘Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker’ - Wikipedia page (for additional info)
As well as officially released record and cassettes for The Empire Strikes Back too…
The Empire Strikes Back - From the Adventures Of Luke Skywalker - vinyl & cassette cover info at the Restraining Bolt website
Even tie-in Star Wars books focusing on other characters - from the wider Star Wars saga / universe - also had the subtitle of…
‘From The Adventures Of Luke Skywalker’
^ Brian Daley’s two books from
1987 (reprints?)1979 & 1980 (thank you for the correction, Pakka) - ‘Han Solo’s Revenge’ & ‘Han Solo at Star’s End’.
Even the novel covers for Star Wars carried ‘From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker’ blurb on them in the mid-to-late 1990’s:-
^ note the ‘Formerly titled: Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker’ for the 1997 & 2004 Special Edition Trilogy books.
More information can also be found in this article up on the official Star Wars website - ‘Check out over 40 years of Star Wars: A New Hope novelisation covers’.
Even Lucas himself stated that the Star Wars Saga was essentially about Luke Skywalker’s destiny and his past - when creating ideas for the Empire Strikes Back…
^ a screenshot taken from Page 15 of JW Rinzler’s ‘Making Of Empire Strikes Back’ book.
^ Category ‘#5 • Vader: ‘Luke, originally I was NOT your father’ (Anakin & Vader were two entirely separate characters; until 1978’s ESB 2nd draft)’ of the ‘George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist…’ thread may be of interest.
As is Phil Szostak, Lucasfilm Creative Art Manager & author, in his 2019 “Star Wars Mythbusting” twitter thread…
“Darth Vader wasn’t Luke’s father until the second draft of Empire Strikes Back in April 1978.”
^ twitter.com/PhilSzostak/status/1161026961444990976 + threadreaderapp.com/thread/1157776507533582336.html
| 8. George’s changing reasons why he made the Prequel Trilogy films - and who they were for… |
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George Lucas claiming the 6 Star Wars films “form the biography of Vader”… (aka GL’s oft-claimed post-PT ‘Star Wars has always been the tragedy of Darth Vader’) - but that he wasn’t aware of this “until 1998”…
^ A screenshot of a 2005 Vanity Fair article (February issue) promoting Revenge Of The Sith.
and yet…
In 2019 George claimed the reason why he made the Prequel Trilogy films was because the fans didn’t understand in the 10 years after Return Of The Jedi… that the backstory to the Original Trilogy was really “about the tragedy of Darth Vader”… something he himself stated he himself hadn’t realised “until 1998”… after he had already wrote and filmed TPM!
^ A screenshot of the 2024 George Lucas made Star Wars prequels because fans “didn’t get” story - article at The Digital Bits
The 2019 SW•com article referenced above: www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-oral-history
and more disingenuous comments from George Lucas re the criticism The Phantom Menace faced after release…
…with dubious claims on what he “originally intended” for character ages - and fan expectations being too high - but not his oversaturated marketing, the record-breaking numerous promotions and tie-ins, or sheer hype for TPM - and that he couldn’t say these Prequels were made for a different audience prior to the film release - young children:-
^ A screenshot of a 1999 Empire magazine article, shortly after the criticism began of The Phantom Menace.
When the Prequels came under criticism from fans… George decided to attempt to deflect fans’ disappointment by claiming that ‘the Prequels were always for kids’ - which contradicts George’s earlier reasoning on why he decided to make the Prequel films…
^ a screenshot from www.gamesradar.com/entertainment/star-wars-tv-shows/george-lucas-star-wars-prequels-kids-movies
To say nothing that a claiming a film was made for 10-12 year olds… does NOT excuse or negate criticism of the film itself - especially a film marketed to and at… a much wider and varied audience.
| 9. Critics didn’t like Jar Jar and TPM - “so they came in and said it was racist” - George Lucas… |
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Some still-live articles, from around the time of PT’s release, covering the issue of racial stereotypes in The Phantom Menace…Star Wars accused of race stereotypes - at The Independent, 1999.
A Galaxy Far, Far Off Racial Mark? - at The LA Times, 1999.
Our Inner Child Meets Young Darth Vader - at Wall Street Journal, 1999. (available in full here: https://archive.is/LImc6)
The Merchant of Menace (Racial stereotypes in a galaxy far, far away?) - at Slate, 1999.
George Lucas’ Jedi mind trick - at Salon, 2000.
All Droid Up - at Village Voice, 1999.
Racial Ventriloquism - at The Nation, 1999.
Jar Jar Binks: A Cultural Rorschach Test - at Chicago Tribune, 1999.
Shuffling Through the Star Wars - at NY Times, 1999. (article in full here: https://archive.is/60lyu)
Some things just aren’t funny - either in Notting Hill or a galaxy far, far away - at The Observer, 1999.
The Tao of “Star Wars”, Or, Cultural Appropriation in a Galaxy Far, Far Away - at JSTOR, 1999.
All The Tropes - Space Jews - at All The Tropes, 2004.
Portrait of the artist as an antimsemite - at New Internationalist, 2004.
Voice of Neimoidians - at TFn, 1999. (“Thai people trying to speak the lines as best they could in their best English” and then hired “English actors interpreting a Thai person trying to speak English” - Matthew Wood, (on the process for the sound of the Neimoidians).
George Lucas’ response and quotes can be found in the following articles…
Star Wars: Lucas strikes back - at BBC, 1999.
Lucas derides accusations of racial stereotyping - at The Guardian, 1999.
George Lucas’ Jedi mind trick - at Salon, 2000. (listed above, but here too, with more of George Lucas quotes in response).^ Why nobody told George some of the people criticising the use of those stereotypes in TPM were actually Jamaican, or from the West Indies, and some of the critics themselves were black, Jewish, Asian… from all over the world… was likely lost on him.
As well as George Lucas’ outré claim (in the BBC article linked above) that people didn’t like Jar Jar and wanted rid of him so…
“…they came in and they started calling the film racist.”
A handful of more recently written articles covering the issue of racial stereotypes in The Phantom Menace…
Star Wars: A Tale of Racism - at Globe, 2021.
The Phantom Menace was Racist and Here is Why That Matters - at Contemporary Racism, 2019.
Things We (Still) Kinda Hate About The Phantom Menace - Uncomfortable Ethnic Stereotypes - at Time, 2012.
Neimoidians with stereotypical and disappointing Japanese villain accents - at Jimmy Won twitter, 2019.
Racial Stereotypes In The Phantom Menace - at ScreenRant, 2019
Racism in a Galaxy Far, Far Away - at Asian American Popular Culture, 2017.
If You Prick Watto, Does He Not Bleed? - at Jewish Currents, 2019
How Watto is a hurtful stereotype (+ Toydarians wearing Kippahs in 2008 Clone Wars series) - at Consumed by SW Feelings, 2022.
Times Star Wars Went Too Far - at Looper, 2021.
Star Wars stereotypes: Not a force for good - at AlJazeera, 2014.
Racism and Ethnic Stereotypes in ‘Star Wars: The Phantom Menace’ - at David Chen, 2014.
Racist trolls may think they own Star Wars, but the saga’s diversity issues are not cut and dried - at The Guardian, 2021.
Star Wars: Five Most Horrible Mistakes Of ‘The Phantom Menace’ - at Bell Of Souls, 2023.
Diversity in a Galaxy Far, Far Away: Star Wars’ Poor History and New Hope in Representation - at The Mary Sue, 2015.
Coincidentally: In TPM, Boss Nass gifts the Jedi a bongo. Obi-Wan: “Master, what’s a bongo?” - Qui-Gon: “A transport, I hope”.
George Lucas in a 1989 New York Times article ‘on the racism that swirled around Temple of Doom film’ (article in full, here)':-
“There are so many special interest groups now that no matter what you make a film about someone is going to be offended.”
^ ‘special interest groups’ being the Indian Government, and many other people raising concerns on how a real-world religion, gods, or belief system - as well as Indians themselves - are being portrayed onscreen in such a wilfully derogatory and specious manner.
^ see the Phil Tippett on the Special Editions: “They’re shit” + £2b for George to direct the Prequels thread for further reading.
| 10. George says ‘The Star Wars Saga is about family; fathers and sons - mothers and daughters’… |
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This screenshot below - from this June 2005 interview with Rolling Stone - George Lucas and the Cult of Darth Vader:-
It would be far more accurate to say ‘Star Wars became about family; fathers & sons - mothers & daughters’…
Vader was not Luke’s father until the 2nd draft of Empire Strikes Back, and Leia was not his sister (Vader’s daughter) until filming Return Of The Jedi (as admitted by George in the 1983 ‘From Star Wars to Jedi The Making of a Saga’ documentary - at 61m & 8s in):-
“In the end I had a problem with… in the end… in the fight between Luke and his father… of why he makes the final turn: Luke makes the final turn to the bad side of the force - and tried to kill his father. Richard [Marquand - the director] was trying to block out [plan] the fight between Luke and Vader, and we got down to that point underneath the throne room and the script sort of said ‘Vader says something that upsets Luke’ - or something vague like that. And we didn’t have that actual ‘moment’… that we needed where Luke… you got the sense that Luke was hiding, he refuses to fight him, he’d rather die first, and that something turns him around and makes him fight. And I’d never really come up with a satisfying answer to that… of what he could possible say to set Luke off. In the process of evolving the script, and involving the importance of Leia as the sister… you know, it was sitting right there in front of my face. And it became obvious that turning her to the dark said would be the that in that would set Luke off again.”
Luke makes no mention of his mother in either Star Wars or Empire Strikes Back, and is only briefly mentioned in Return Of The Jedi to Leia, Leia in turn stating “Just a little bit. She died when I was very young. Images really - feelings. She was very beautiful, kind… but… sad.” - events which were later retconned for the Prequel Trilogy.
George Lucas himself was also open to the idea of killing Leia off in the ‘Splinter Of The Mind’s Eye’ - what was to be a low-budget sequel to Star Wars if the 1977 film did not do well financially (SOTME was instead released as a book):-
^ The above screenshot is taken from the Splinter Of The Mind’s Eye Story Conference article - at the Cinetropolis website.
| 11. George again dividing the fanbase; claiming young fans ‘fanatically adored’ the PT - old fans ‘loyal’ to the OT… |
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In 2005, George attempted to claim that Star Wars fans are a divided group: Older fans ❤️ the OT - younger fans ❤️ the PT…
Older audiences prefer the original trilogy - younger ones love the current [PT] films…
Of course, that is quite the sweeping generalisation - and an incorrect summation too.As anyone can see from some of the online discourse at the time there were many younger fans who did NOT like the Prequel films - and plenty of older fans that did like the Prequel films.
So they were not indeed “fanatically adored by the under-25s” as George incorrectly claims.
That is to say nothing of older fans / people being “in control of the media, they’re in control of the Web, they’re in control of everything, basically.” somehow being a factor in how the films were received and reviewed online by anyone of any age. If people liked them - regardless of age - they’d say so… and vice versa.
Was George really of the opinion that older fans didn’t like his movies because of their age? Or that “the over-25 fan base is loyal to the first three films” - as everyone likely went into theatres wanting to enjoy and love the Prequel films - regardless of age.
No, George - we’re one fanbase.
Though Lucas does a good job attempting to divide and gaslight fans in attempt to deflect or denigrate away criticism of some of his work, when in reality, people judge that on it’s own merits… again - regardless of age.
| 12. “I’m sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be”… |
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^ A screenshot from the 2004 ‘Lucas talks as ‘Star Wars’ trilogy returns’ article on the 2004SE DVDs at Today•com
Where to start with all that, eh?
A. “I’m not going to spend the, we’re talking millions of dollars here”…
^ This is blatantly incorrect, disingenuous, and misleading - as detailed in Category #15.
(to say nothing of George refusing to have a duplicate scan made of the unaltered theatrical cut for the Original Trilogy before altering the original negatives for the 1997 Special Editions - a project paid for by 20th Century Fox)
B. “It’s like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I’m sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be.”
^ As pointed out at the time… you can have more than one version of a film released. You can have a the ‘official’ or ‘canon’ cut out there - and also release the previous cuts. George did realise this some two years later when releasing the 2006 GOUT DVDs - albeit a no-effort 13 year-old transfer meant for laserdiscs, plagued with DNR issues, presented in an obsolete format… almost like George was trying to portray his version as the being the ‘better quality’ option somehow… and given some of the woefully incorrect statements since… that is no surprise. See Categories #1-3 of this thread for more information.
C. “I’m the one who has to have everybody throw rocks at me all the time, so at least if they’re going to throw rocks at me, they’re going to throw rocks at me for something I love rather than something I think is not very good, or at least something I think is not finished.”
^ see Category #18 of this thread for more on this claim from George.
The above also does not include…
Do the fans get a refund for the previous outlay we’ve spent on these ‘unfinished’ versions down the years - or a discount also the 1 future ‘unfinished’ version to come in 2011, and then the 2019 Maclunkey cut? To say nothing of the original version that stood for some 20 years… which underpins the entire Galaxy Far Far Away ‘not really existing anymore’. That same version that made Lucas his fortune, influence, respect… that iconic and pioneering version which won all those prestigious awards and became much loved staples of pop culture.
Plus, why does it have to be only ‘George’s way’: “I want it to be the way I want it to be?” What of fellow Original Trilogy directors Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand? After all, George is on record…
^ From the 1980 Rolling Stone magazine interview with George: ‘The Empire Strikes Back and So Does George Lucas’
^ An abridged screenshot from JW Rinzler’s ‘The Making Of Episode III’ book; a quoted conversation between Frank Oz and George.
At the time of above conversation in ~2005 George Lucas had already made changes to directors Irvin Kershner’s ‘Empire Strikes Back’, and Richard Marquand’s ‘Return Of The Jedi’ - and would also make go on to make further additional changes to both films.
Neither the Empire Strikes Back or Return Of The Jedi are available as their respective directors intended, or indeed made, or were indeed released, on a modern and quality digital format.
^ Category #39 of George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist… may be of interest for further reading.
| 13. Original Trilogy preservation: hypocritical quotes from George - Part One… |
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Also, all of the following quotes are from George Lucas, taken from his speech to the US Congress in 1988, on the subject of altering films…
“American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history.”
…
“The public’s interest is ultimately dominant over all other interests.”
…
“It will soon be possible to create a new ‘original’ negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires.”
…
“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.”
…
“People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians.”
…
“Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself.”
An article with the full speech by George Lucas, at Force Material: ‘George Lucas explains why you shouldn’t digitally alter films’
| 14. Original Trilogy preservation: hypocritical quotes from George - Part Two… |
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George Lucas’ written introductory letter for the ‘Profiles in History’ catalogue featuring Debbie Reynolds collection of memorabilia, Lucas speaks about his respect for film history…
More quotes can be found here: Do As I Say, Not As I Do: George Lucas Quotes on Film Preservation - at SavingStarWars•com
The Film Foundation is a non-profit organization established in 1990 by director Martin Scorcese dedicated to protecting and preserving motion picture history - of which George Lucas is a board member.
The quotes below are taken from a video of George Lucas talking about the Film-Foundation - and the importance of preserving movies. Click on the Film-Foundation link above and then on the George Lucas image icon to watch the actual video…
George Lucas - “The idea of film history, the idea of preserving films, which are so important to our heritage and culture, and which are part of what I think are a very significant art form, especially going into the future, I think is paramount. The reality that we face which is half the films before 1950 have been lost and we’ll never see them again… is a tragedy. And it saddens me every time I think about the fact that I’ve seen stills, I’ve heard stories about certain movies and I’ll never, ever be able to see them. Because they’re gone now. And I think preserving films - in terms of the legacy for the future - is probably the most important thing we can do.”
| 15. “I’m not going to spend the, we’re talking millions of dollars here, the money and the time to refurbish that…” - George Lucas’ incorrect and disingenuous claim. |
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^ A screenshot from the 2004 ‘Lucas talks as ‘Star Wars’ trilogy returns’ article on the 2004SE DVDs at Today•com
Firstly, it is worth highlighting that George Lucas refused to have a duplicate scan made of the unaltered theatrical cut for the Original Trilogy before altering the original negatives for the 1997 Special Editions (a project paid for in its entirety by 20th Century Fox). Something that “could be easily done” according to the Lucasfilm employees working on the actual project…
^ An abridged screenshot (edited for length) from Lucasfilm department director Bill Kimberlin’s 2018 book - ‘Inside The Star Wars Empire’, from ‘The Distraction’ chapter, starting on Page 194.
Respected professionals in the film preservation industry, as of 2018, put the figure at US $100,000 or so to cover the cost of a professional restoration of the Original Trilogy films; ‘to 4K and do it right’.
^ A screenshot of From Interpositives to Separation Masters: How Film Preservation Works - at the ‘Save Star Wars’ website (in 2010); with an list of possible options and costs open to Lucasfilm.
^ A screenshot of Frequently Asked Questions: ‘4 - Restoring or presenting the original versions in high quality is very expensive isn’t it? Lucas does not have the money or desire to do so.’ - at the ‘Save Star Wars’ website (in 2010); with a couple of restoration and pricing options.
^ A screenshot of Saving Star Wars: The Special Edition Restoration Process and its Changing Physicality - at The Secret History of Star Wars book website (in 2009).
^ A screenshot from ‘Could Disney finally give us the remastered, unedited Star Wars we want?’ - article at the ARS Technica website (in 2017); with a price option of ‘under a million dollars’.
And finally… the cost of a preservation / restoration release by the fans…
This screenshot taken from The Star Wars Trilogy’s 4K77, 4K80 & 4K83 Projects in July 2019, details some of the outlay involved for their respective project at being ‘a little over $16,000’ (no labour costs or profits made - just fans working on the project outside their regular jobs in their spare time):-
Note: Even in 2006, the esteemed Robert Harris - the man who had hand-restored ‘Vertigo’, ‘Lawrence of Arabia’, and ‘The Godfather’ - is on record saying he knows there are pristine 35mm elements of the Original Trilogy available for use, and offered his services to restore the film - Lucasfilm did not respond to his offer…
^ A screenshot of Saving Star Wars: The Special Edition Restoration Process and its Changing Physicality - at The Secret History of Star Wars book website (in 2009). A screenshot of Robert Harris quote, via The Digital Bits website, can be found here.
| 16. George Lucas actively suppressing film history - yet also speaking on the importance of film preservation… |
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George Lucas actively suppressing film history…
^ from How the Grinch Stole Star Wars - an article on the ‘Save Star Wars’ website - with this quote from George Lucas…
“…What ends up being important in my mind is what the DVD version is going to look like, because that’s what everybody is going to remember. The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movies that anyone will remember will be the DVD [of the Special Edition].”
We find that above statement from George to be very disconcerting - it is, in effect, an effort to wilfully suppress and eradicate landmark film history - as well as inadvertently denigrating audience’s memories and experiences from the unaltered version that existed for some twenty years. To say nothing of these being the original version of the three films upon which the entire Star Wars universe was built on.
And yet, in stark contrast to the above statement from George…
The Film Foundation is a non-profit organization established in 1990 by director Martin Scorcese dedicated to protecting and preserving motion picture history - of which George Lucas is a board member.
The quotes below are taken from a video of George Lucas talking about the Film-Foundation - and the importance of preserving movies. Click on the Film-Foundation link above and then on the George Lucas image icon to watch the actual video…
“The idea of film history, the idea of preserving films, which are so important to our heritage and culture, and which are part of what I think are a very significant art form, especially going into the future, I think is paramount. The reality that we face which is half the films before 1950 have been lost and we’ll never see them again… is a tragedy. And it saddens me every time I think about the fact that I’ve seen stills, I’ve heard stories about certain movies and I’ll never, ever be able to see them. Because they’re gone now. And I think preserving films - in terms of the legacy for the future - is probably the most important thing we can do.”
^ We completely agree with this - and so would like to see the unaltered theatrical version of the Original Trilogy to have an official, high quality release, on a modern digital format… so everyone can view and experience them once again.
| 17. George’s continually contradicting previous things he stated - that us older fans lived through and still remember… |
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There have been quite a few conflicting claims and retcons on the history and development of Star Wars over the years from George himself. Attempting to highlight the intriguing and factual account of The Galaxy Far Far Away isn’t a ‘bashing Lucas’ exercise or unfounded criticism of the man himself - a philanthropist who has generously given much of his fortune away to charities, educational endeavours and good causes. The same determined genius and visionary who put both his own personal health and money at risk in bringing us these three classic films and the universe within… yet as mentioned above this thread is more a striving for an accurate, revision-free, and authentic record on the history & evolution of Star Wars.
George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist…
A great many of us were there in the 1970s & 1980s; we saw the films, and we fell in love with them. We bought the articles, we watched the interviews, we read the scripts and books, and we bought the merch… anything and everything Star Wars that we could lay our hands on. We also remember what George said about the stories at the time… we lived it… which is unfortunate for Lucas’ latterly constructed ‘grand masterplan’ claims… for his much-retconned & much-altered ‘official’ history of Star Wars.
| 18. “They throw rocks at me” & “everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?”… |
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^ A screenshot from the 2004 ‘Lucas talks as ‘Star Wars’ trilogy returns’ article on the 2004SE DVDs at Today•com
^ Screenshots of George Lucas quotes in a 2012 THR article on promoting his Red Tails feature film - and also archived here.
George is certainly conflating the above claims with facts…
Firstly… nobody is ‘throwing rocks’ at George - at any time - let alone ‘all the time’.
It is also not a case of “everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?” - they are simply highlighting some of George’s disingenuous and debunked claims, along with George’s reasoning for suppressing film history… making little sense.
George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist…
A brief overview of the OriginalTrilogy•com down the years…
People are still indeed voicing their concerns that there are yet again more alterations to what was meant to be ‘The Final Cut’, according to George himself, in 1997. Then with yet more alterations in 2004 (for the DVD), yet again with even more alterations in 2011 (for the blu-ray), and finally with more alterations yet again in 2019 (for cancelled 3D release which became the 4K/UHD)… so it is disingenuous to attempt to claim fans are unhappy because “I made a change”… to say nothing of George actively suppressing the original theatrical cuts.
Yet many fans are also wondering why George hasn’t addressed numerous other issues in the OT films in the various Special Edition cuts, or even fixed the issues with alterations George has introduced to the SE cuts in since 1997.
If George has a problem in fans re-editing Star Wars films to be a better or more complete Special Edition cuts than he himself has released, despite all the sources and resources available to George, and that fans are making more ‘fixes’ and alterations than George, then maybe it is time for him George to raise his game… and also his quality assurance / quality control?
Other fans are simply asking to have a choice… the option… to buy and experience the original cuts… the version of the films they grew up with that stood for some 20 years… in the best possible quality on the latest quality home digital format.
Over the years that has also grown into many fans on here also calling for a release of the 1997 Special Edition - which has never had a HD release or even a release on a digital format (outside of a poor quality VCD) - despite there being a ready-to-go superb quality negative of the 1997 SE for release. And also the 2004 SE cuts; which have never officially been released in HD. The 2011 SE and 2019 SE are cuts are readily available in HD and in the case of the 2019 SE, in 4K/UHD too (despite image and colour issues - with loss of detail etc, and more alterations)
Many here also back the call to release all the theatrical cuts of the 6 main Star Wars films a backup to the Wired article (both the PT and OT).
That George wants to also make ongoing alterations to other directors’ work in Star Wars - notable Irvin Kershner’s Empire Strikes Back and Richard Marquand’s Return Of The Jedi… and not make both their originally released cuts of the two Original Trilogy films, that George did not direct, available for others to view and experience…
An abridged screenshot from JW Rinzler’s ‘The Making Of Episode III’ book; a quoted conversation between Frank Oz and George Lucas…
^ George Lucas: “Seriously, that’s why I’m a member of the Film Foundation (filmmakers for film preservation). A director should be able to change his films - but nobody else.”
At the time of above conversation George Lucas had already made changes to directors Irvin Kershner’s ‘Empire Strikes Back’, and Richard Marquand’s ‘Return Of The Jedi’ - and would also make go on to make further additional changes to both films.
Neither the Empire Strikes Back or Return Of The Jedi are available as their respective directors intended, or indeed made, on a modern and quality digital format.
If George wants the latest version of the Original Trilogy films ‘to be his way’, his ‘vision’ (or his latest ‘vision’ of the 5 released so far), or a default / canon / official cut… then so be it. Though actively suppressing previous released versions of the films - including the two OT films of the other directors (and altering their vision for their released films)… should be highlighted.
When George accuses those fans who highlight his hypocritical actions, choices and decisions… as ‘throwing rocks’ at him - and telling him ‘what a terrible person you are’… is an indicator of someone who is actively trying to deflect the focus away from those actions, choices and decisions… and attempting to place blame or responsibility anywhere but at his own door.
| 19. GL zealots / fanboys incorrectly claiming “mean OT fans made George sell Star Wars to Disney”… |
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^ A screenshot from the 2004 ‘Lucas talks as ‘Star Wars’ trilogy returns’ article on the 2004SE DVDs at Today•com
^ A screenshot of George Lucas quotes in a 2012 THR article on promoting his Red Tails feature film - and also archived here.
Sure, George doesn’t like criticism. Yet, no… “Mean OT fans made George sell Star Wars to Disney”… is not an actual thing.
Though the above two sources are something a certain group of fans have used to try and denigrate or attack other groups of fans with… though simply saying and repeating the above two quotes from George doesn’t make them true…
‘The ridiculous George Lucas lie that needs to end already’ - an 11 minute 2023 Thor Skywalker youtube video.
Below is a list of articles / sources with quotes from George himself giving the reasons why he sold Lucasfilm; reasons such as time spent with family, kids, age, retirement, museum, to not let down the company in doing his personal/experimental loss-making films etc…
- Lucas Discusses Selling Lucasfilm to Disney, Plus New ‘Star Wars’ Movies - 2 minute 2012 WSJ youtube video
- George Lucas says he sold ‘Star Wars’ to ‘white slavers’ - 2015 Business Insider article
- Lucas was working on new Star Wars films before he sold Lucasfilm to Disney in 2012 - 2015 NME article
- Why George Lucas Sold Star Wars To Disney - 2020 ScreenRant article
- ‘Star Wars’ creator George Lucas says he sold Lucasfilm to spend more time with family - 2021 Deseret article
- Why Did George Lucas Sell Star Wars & How Does He Feel About It Now? - 2023 Looper article
- Lucas Comments on Why He Sold Star Wars to Disney: “We Could See the Problems” - 2024 ComicBasics article.
- The REAL Reason George Lucas Sold STAR WARS To Disney! - 1 minute 2025 youtube video.
- Inside George Lucas’ Extremely Personal Reason for Selling Star Wars to Disney - 2025 FandomWire article
- Why did George Lucas sell Lucasfilm in 2012? - Paul Duncan ~2020 interview with George:-
Here are yet another 10 articles with quotes or footage from George himself also highlighting the same reasons George gave for selling up (not that it will seemingly change the erroneous ‘mean OT fans made George sell up’ narrative)…
- Why Did George Lucas Sell Star Wars to Disney? He Explains All - 2020 Collider article
- In His Own Words: George Lucas FINALLY Shares Why He Sold ‘Star Wars’ - 2020 Inside The Magic article
- George Lucas describes ‘painful’ decision to sell Lucasfilm to Disney - 2020 Independent article
- George Lucas Reveals Why He Sold Lucasfilm to Disney and Retired - 2024 CBR article
- George Lucas partly sold Lucasfilm due to the rise of Netflix - 2024 JoBlo article
- George Lucas calls Force Awakens retro, says he sold Star Wars rights to white slavers - 2015 EW article
George Lucas Says He Sold ‘Star Wars’ to ‘White Slavers’ - 2015 Variety article- George Lucas Reveals Why He Actually Sold ‘Star Wars’ To Disney - 2019 Culture Slate article
- George Lucas Explains Why He Sold Lucasfilm to Disney - 411 Mania article
- George Lucas Finally Explained Why He Sold ‘Star Wars’ to Disney - 2021 Market Realist article
- George Lucas Reveals Reason for Selling Lucasfilm to Disney - 2020 Coming Soon article
Revisionism is also something certain George/PT fans have tried to use in claiming OT fans are somehow at fault for the Prequel Trilogy being poorly received and widely criticised upon release (forgetting that RLM only did their videos in 2009; some 10 years after TPM premiered, and a whole year after the popular ‘Confused Matthew’ videos that were critical of the PT; amongst countless others)…
A topic that might upset the entire forum: “Nobody hated the Prequels, until the internet told them to.” - agenda-led revisionist youtube videos doing a 180° on actual Star Wars history, taken as fact by new viewers, and even some younger OT members on here.
^ a brief look into highlighting the revisionism of history from some PT/George fans - and also the perils of taking youtube videos from certain channels at their word. Or thinking RLM (RedLetterMedia) was responsible for, or somehow manipulated large numbers of fans and critics alike… in not liking the Prequels.
Some such fans (or rather zealots) even believe preservations of the unaltered theatrical versions of the Original Trilogy should no longer exist or be seen, or that fan edits somehow desecrate George’s ‘vision’(s). Or fans seemingly deeply offended - even triggered to anger and threats - by cited articles, projects, and documentaries from fans here chronicling a more complete and accurate history of Star Wars… than that of the re-written, somewhat selective, and retconned version of history often found in official or licensed content and sources from Lucas / Lucasfilm.
Also, a number of preservationists, fan editors, and people making other fan-made projects (such as documentaries) over the years here on the OriginalTrilogy•com have received death threats, threats in general, and ‘threats to life’ - unless they ceased work on, or distribution of, their freely-available projects. These threats were made from other Star Wars fans / zealots who see such projects on here from this community… as somehow insulting or derogatory to George Lucas, the wider Star Wars fandom, or to their own beliefs.
This also extends to attacking and belittling others creative contributions to the Original Trilogy - or fans who showcase praise and highlight their achievements… believing somehow such praise as an attack on George; ie Marcia Lucas, Gary Kurtz, Charles Lippincott, Dave Prowse, et al… and even the two directors of the other two OT films.
Many such fans likely aren’t even aware that a significant number of members on here are fans made to feel unwelcome at certain other Star Wars sites in the past - or were censored - and even banned - for simply discussing the unaltered cuts, or highlighting Lucas’ disingenuous statements and alterations to Star Wars history. Such fans simply don’t care - as they instead perceive themselves as to be somehow ‘defending’ George… by attacking other fans with a different outlook - or hold a ‘certain point of view’.
Posting on the OriginalTrilogy•com…The 3️⃣ • ‘Archival / Historical Discussions’ (History & Events : George Lucas & numerous talents Behind The Scenes in the OT / Lucasfilm era) - the George Lucas ‘interviews and comments’ section in ‘An Index for Original Trilogy Discussion’ is a useful resource for some of George’s divisive and gaslighting comments and claims over the years.
| 20. Fanatical Fandom: toxic behaviour and threats from Lucas zealots & fanboys on here / elsewhere over the years… |
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With George almost becoming a religious-like figure in certain circles (whose word cannot be questioned etc); and where praise of other creatives who contributed to the Original Trilogy (Kurtz, Marcia, Lippincott etc) is challenged with toxicity and mistruths…
In recent times, youtube videos such as the likes of Nerdonymous’ ‘How “How Star Wars was saved in the edit” was saved in the edit (sort of, but not really)’ (in ‘response’ to RocketJump’s video highlighting the power of editing in film), and Rick Worley’s ‘How to Watch Star Wars, Part Two: The Special Editions Are the Movies, Get Over It’ videos, amongst others, have come to the fore.
Not only are both videos riddled with mistruths, strawmen arguments, some olympic-level mental gymnastics to attempt to make a ‘point’, a litany of mistakes, and several misrepresentations that would Trump blush… they also include attacks on members of the community here - as well as the community itself (and in doing so - other similar like-minded communities).
An example: “They want to burn him to the ground and take everything away from him”. - Nerdonymous.
^ ‘they’ being us - and ‘him’ being George Lucas. In short… Nerdonymous attempted to equate those who undertake Star Wars fan preservations/restorations, and those who highlight the contributions of others to the Original Trilogy, as well as documentary-comedies highlighting fan issues with the SE and PT… to “They want to burn him [Lucas] to the ground and take everything away from him”. Perfectly reasonable, of course… in the monetised hate-for-clicks world of agenda-led, padded-out, 2-hour youtube videos.
Actually, I’m not sure how that works at all; ‘burning him to the ground and taking everything away from him.’ Ummm… how exactly?
This is nothing new, of course. Such attitudes can be traced all the way back through to the expelling of OOT fans from TFN and official site forums for simply talking about the OOT - or highlighting George’s statements and claims contradicting previous… statements and claims; as highlighted in the 2nd half of ‘Category #19’ (and repeated below for those who haven’t read it)… threats and toxic behaviour from GL fanboys and zealots visiting and trolling on here and elsewhere online over the years…
I’ll never understand the attitude of people who oppose the release of the unaltered original trilogy
A brief overview of the OriginalTrilogy•com down the years…
Posting on the OriginalTrilogy•com…
A topic that might upset the entire forum; (I’m sorry): “Nobody hated the Prequels, until the internet told them to.”A reminder that websites such as TFn and the official Star Wars forums were places where site staff / moderators threatened and then purged their members with bans… for simply discussing the unaltered theatrical cuts of the Original Trilogy, highlighting some of Lucas’ / Lucasfilm’s disingenuous claims and conflicting statements, the re-writing of Star Wars history in official sources, or talking about the Prequel Trilogy seemingly contradicting what was previously established in the OT and Expanded Universe.
Some George/PT fans also attempt to qualify the above toxicity with a ‘you started it first’ attempt at a justification… and refer to claims that ‘toxic OT fans nearly drove to Ahmed Best to suicide’ and ‘toxic OT fans ruined Jake Lloyd’s mental health’ etc. As well the oft-used ‘George Lucas raped my childhood’ song and claim that a few fans did refer to back when the Prequels were released… as we can see below those claims are actually incorrect… or in the case of ‘George Lucas raped my childhood’ - without context…
• 1. Re Jake Lloyd… and the incorrect claim that: ‘critical fans made him break down, quit acting, and messed up his life’…
^ a screenshot from ‘Mother of ‘Star Wars’ child actor details his mental health struggles’ - 2024 Scripps article.
Unfortunately, Jake has schizophrenia - something not apparently on his biological father’s side of the family:-
“I believe that it was genetic. And his psychiatrist also agrees that Jake was going to become schizophrenic.”
^ the follow-up 2025 article ‘Jake Lloyd: New Focus Is Helping Determine His Current Reality’ - may also be of interest.
• 2. Re Ahmed Best… and the incorrect claim that: ‘critical Prequel fans made him nearly take his own life’…
^ a screenshot from Ahmed Best’s twitter account, in April 2018.
Note that Ahmed Best refers to the ‘media backlash’ in the above - and not fans.
It is really unfortunate that the reaction of the media led to Ahmed Best considering taking his own life. Though it should be noted that the backlash was against the actual character of Jar Jar that Ahmed was playing in TPM - and not against Ahmed himself. Many actors likely encounter such criticism for some of their roles through their careers - and again it is especially unfortunate as Ahmed believed this would be his breakthrough role and help catapult him to better things (mainly given the hype, hysteria, and anticipation for the PT prior to release). Unfortunately that was not to be… yet that should in no way reflect on Ahmed himself.
It is also really pleasing to see Ahmed Best return to the Star Wars universe - playing Jedi Kelleran Beq - as a host presenter for the ‘Jedi Temple Challenge’ show, and also playing Kelleran again in ‘The Mandalorian’ (and will likely appear in future GFFA content).
• 3. Re some fans adopting the AICN origin phrase: ‘George Lucas raped my childhood’ - because they didn’t like the SE or PT etc…
The ‘George Lucas raped my childhood’ music video up on youtube - by Hot Waffles.
The phrase “George Lucas raped my childhood” stemmed from within fan communities online such as AICN, as a sarcastic and frustrated reaction to the release of the Special Editions, the unavailability of the original cuts on a digital home media release, and also the lore-changing and underwhelming Prequel Trilogy films. It later became the above song by Hot Waffles. The phrase itself was not used seriously - nor sincerely - yet did unfortunately became a ‘go to’ term for a short while… used by a small number of vocal fans wanting to outwardly express their deep disappointment with George Lucas and his decisions at that time.
That many fans who had similar views and frustrations with George and his decisions… did not agree with - nor condone - the use of that phrase at that time… is lost on those looking to weaponise or point-score on such an unfortunate term used by a small minority of vocal, yet disgruntled, people.
The above 3 topics certainly features some difficult subjects… as does these below… aimed at members of this community…
Kellythatsit & Juno Eclipse’s posts in the ‘A topic that might upset the entire forum; (I’m sorry)’ thread are also well worth a read.
^ Especially for those not around at the time of the aforementioned ‘fan purges’ of the early-mid 2000’s, or are unfamiliar with the censorship, threats, bans, and also death threats and abuse that fans of the unaltered theatrical cuts endured for simply wanting to talk about these original versions on certain fan forums. Or even for simply talking about issues with the various Special Editions over time, alterations made to the Original Trilogy films to ‘fit better’ with the Prequels, or Lucas’ re-writing and altering of Star Wars history. As well as the welcome influx of censored and purged fans joining this and other similar forums as a result.
There is also the unfortunate continuation of such abuse and threats, since aimed at fan preservationists and fan editors on here - from our early days online - right through to present day. Similar abuse and death threats also aimed at people highlighting Marcia Lucas’ role in Star Wars history - notably in promoting the recent ‘Icons Uncovered’ documentary, or for perceived sleights at George Lucas made to Alexandre Philippe for making of his ‘The People vs. George Lucas’ program. To Jamie Benning for his ‘Star Wars Begins’ filmumentary, and adywan for his ‘Star Wars Revisited’ Edits. Even to myself for the apparent “Lucas hating & lying bullshit” of the ‘George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist’ info thread.
There are unfortunately a number of others on the OT•com over the years who have been on the receiving end of abuse and threats too - I won’t list them, as unlike the people listed above, they haven’t publicly disclosed these threats (other than to the site staff/authorities). Yet it is important to highlight that such abuse, attempted manipulation, and serious threats do still occur.
This insightful ‘must-read’ 2012 Tor article, by Emmet Asher-Perrin, likely sums up many members’ views on here over time…
• Lucas Shot First: The Surprisingly Powerful Sense of Betrayal George Lucas Creates | an archived backup: archive.is/w5g3O
Congratulations to anyone who made it through the above posts in just the one sitting - my cap is doffed. Here is a virtual 🍺
If I’ve overlooked any gaslighting/divisive quotes or topics by George - please post them up in this thread below… 👍
⬇️ Or in the future - when George makes more gaslighting/divisive statements and claims - feel free to add them in here. ⬇️
A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…
Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
‘How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com - includes info on how to ask for a fan project and how to search for projects and threads on OT•com.
A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)
Take your time to look around this site before posting… Do NOT just lazily make yet another ‘link request’ post - or a new thread asking for projects.
