Return Of The Jedi - a general Random Thoughts thread — Page 6

oojason said:

Kurtz was also asked to produce Revenge Of The Jedi - which he turned down for the reasons we all know…

That seems extremely unlikely. After falling out with Lucas, it would be ludicrous to think that Lucas would ask him to do anything for him after that.

SilverWook said:

I thought George’s beef was with the DGA and that didn’t happen until Empire was finished?

Yes, but that is a different matter. Regarding PGA, that was just my speculation why they officially kept him around, when he was already effectively replaced. It is safe to assume that Lucas did not want to get in trouble with PGA over something like that.

ray_afraid said:

Han dying would have been a tremendous slap in the face.
We just spent a movie watching Han & Leia fall in love which ends tragically, but a glimmer of hope. That hope needs to pay off, not die off.
I think Hans character was underused & at times misunderstood in Jedi, but killing him isn’t the answer.

Also, the “Leia becomes Queen” thing…
Queen of what? She was the princess of a planet that was destroyed years ago. When we first meet her, she’s mostly using the princess thing as a ruse, hiding the fact that she’s part of the Rebel military.

Exactly. Killing Han would be extremely counter-productive in terms of story. I think many fans just like to jump on some bandwagon because it sounds cool. If anyone of the main three, they could potentially kill off Luke at the very end.

And Leia becoming a queen is even more ridiculous. It would go against the whole character development and against everything the rebellion is fighting for. You do not fight to overthrow the emperor just to replace him with a queen.

imperialscum said:

oojason said:

Kurtz was also asked to produce Revenge Of The Jedi - which he turned down for the reasons we all know…

That seems extremely unlikely. After falling out with Lucas, it would be ludicrous to think that Lucas would ask him to do anything for him after that.

Like Lucas asking him to stay around until the film was finished? As stated below in your reply to Wook? 😉

Or Kurtz being mentioned as being ‘a Production Consultant’ in an official Lucasfilm press release for Revenge Of The Jedi, in 1981… seemingly not so ‘ludicrous’ as some may think, afterall…
 

• http://www.jedinews.co.uk/film-music-tv/articles/gary-kurtz-dies-aged-79

^ “Gary Kurtz was asked to produce Revenge of the Jedi (Return of The Jedi) and turned it down as he felt the script was too limited and that most of what was in the script had already been seen in the first two films (i.e. another Death Star and the sand planet). He had worked on the Star Wars films for many years now and wanted to continue with changing the direction of filmmaking.” - by Jason Joiner, of the Joiner/Kurtz Archive
 

• ‘George Lucas: A Life’ (book by Brain Jones), P303…

^ '“It wasn’t acrimonious”, Kurtz said his departure. "It was just that [Lucas] felt he would probably be more comfortable with someone else handling the production of Jedi, and I felt I would prefer a different kind of challenge, that wasn’t kind of repeating something I had already done."’
 

• https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/specialreports/banthatracks/archives/banthatracks11.pdf

^ Bantha Tracks: Issue 11 (official Star Wars Newsletter), dated February 1981, re Revenge Of The Jedi and an official Lucasfilm press release:-

“Gary Kurtz, who produced ‘Star Wars’ and ‘Empire Strikes Back’ will serve as a Production Consultant on ‘Jedi’, while he prepares two of his own projects.”
 

imperialscum said:

SilverWook said:

I thought George’s beef was with the DGA and that didn’t happen until Empire was finished?

Yes, but that is a different matter. Regarding PGA, that was just my speculation why they officially kept him around, when he was already effectively replaced. It is safe to assume that Lucas did not want to get in trouble with PGA over something like that.

RogueLeader said:

Someone could check me on this, but I think it wasn’t about her literally becoming a queen. I believe Kurtz said something about her becoming the leader of whatever is left of her people. I suppose that could be interpreted as her becoming Queen to any survivors of Alderaan, but I always interpreted it as her becoming the leader of whatever is left of the Alliance at the end of the movie. Since she is Princess Leia, I figured people misinterpreted that as her becoming Queen.

A quote from Gary Kurtz on that subject (in bold):-

Q: “Let’s jump right in. I have to ask, what exactly were your initial thoughts about the third Star Wars film, which was originally called Revenge” of the Jedi?”

A: (Gary Kurtz) “The one story thread that got totally tossed out the window, which was really pretty important I think, was the one of Vader trying to convince Luke to join him to overthrow the Emperor. That together they had enough power that they could do that, and it wasn’t him saying I want to take over the world and be the evil leader, it was that transition. It was Vader saying, “I’m looking again at what I’ve done and where my life has gone and who I’ve served and, very much in the Samurai tradition, and saying if I can join forces with my son, who is just as strong as I am, that maybe we can make some amends.” So there was all of that going on in Jedi as well, that was supposed to go on. So the story was quite a bit more poignant and the ending was the coronation of Leia as the queen of what was left of her people, to take over the royal symbol. That meant she was then isolated from all of the rest and Luke went off then by himself. It was basically a kind of bittersweet ending. She’s not his sister that dropped in to wrap up everything neatly. His sister was someone else way over on the other side of the galaxy and she wasn’t going to show up until the next episode.”

^ From the original ‘Original Star Wars Producer Gary Kurtz speaks’ article in 2000, at FilmThreat - https://filmthreat.com/interviews/gary-kurtz-interview-the-original-star-wars-producer-speaks
 

There may be other quotes from him along similar lines in other articles and interviews etc too? (though that is the main one I can recall)
 

Back in the days of writing the original SW, there was a point where Lucas depicted the rise of the Empire as a more gradual decline and fall of the Republic, rather than a power grab by a single dictatorial Emperor figure.

This was the idea in the January 1975 second draft, and it evidently persisted for a while - hence in 1976 Lucas had to tell Alan Dean Foster to take out references to it in the novelization. One slipped through, though: a mention of “the later corrupt Emperors”.

In the same conversation Lucas apparently mentions wanting Leia to become Empress at the end of the trilogy, and says he would have to discard or modify this idea if he kept to the storyline of a single evil Emperor figure instead of a more gradual transition.

So Kurtz’s idea here of Leia becoming a “Queen” does seem to derive from early SW concepts. (Including also the 1974 rough draft, where Leia becomes queen of her planet at the end, in a finale sequence much like the Triumph of the Will-style ending to SW 1977.)

A marker of how much the story had shifted to revolve primarily around Luke by the time of ROTJ is that in the story conferences there Larry Kasdan suggested having Luke, not Leia, become the new Emperor. (Lucas’ apparent idea during ESB of having both Han & Leia die in the third film, to clear the way for a Sequel Trilogy featuring Luke’s sister, likely boosted this marginalization.)

Or they could’ve founded a new homeworld for Alderaanian refugees, the way Old Spock does in the Abramsverse nuTrek films (which basically turn Vulcan into Alderaan). Maybe it could be some backwater Outer Rim planet nobody else would want, like Tatooine.

oojason said:

imperialscum said:

oojason said:

Kurtz was also asked to produce Revenge Of The Jedi - which he turned down for the reasons we all know…

That seems extremely unlikely. After falling out with Lucas, it would be ludicrous to think that Lucas would ask him to do anything for him after that.

Like Lucas asking him to stay around until the film was finished? As stated below in your reply to Wook? 😉

I did not want to imply that he was asked to stick around. I implied that they just let him stick around in order not to cause any trouble, like making a complaint to PGA, which could easily doom already fragile situation. 😉

The information that “he was asked to produce ROTJ” only ever came from Kurtz during his interviews (and of course secondary sources that refer to him saying so). I have not seen any other independent source confirming that information. Also, he never specified by WHO he was asked. Maybe by a voice in his head? Unless he was asked by Lucas (which is more or less impossible), it makes the whole thing completely irrelevant.

Shopping Maul said:

imperialscum said:

Shopping Maul said:

As a fan I never actually allowed myself to truly accept that I didn’t like the film until I started getting a sense of the ROTJ that could have been - obviously guys like Larry Kasdan and Gary Kurtz and Harrison Ford have come out in favour of Han’s sacrificial death and a generally deeper/bleaker finale.

I am still surprised when people are bringing up Kurtz when it comes to ROTJ. He was fired and replaced by Kazanjian in the middle of ESB principal photography. He basically had nothing to do with ROTJ, let alone being aware of any details such as Kasdan’s and Ford’s suggestion to kill off Han. He basically just jumped on the “ROTJ should have been darker” bandwagon years later, while probably still being resentful of his removal from ESB.

Now considering Kasdan’s and Ford’s suggestion, killing off Han would have not have made the story and the film magically any better.

I’m aware that the Kurtz thing is speculative in the sense that none of us can know exactly how/why things broke down between him and Lucas. My guess is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle - Lucas was annoyed at the cost overruns on TESB and Gary was less than thrilled at the direction SW was going in. But the general feeling about ROTJ stays the same - many folks involved felt that ROTJ was too light or didn’t do justice to its predecessor. Even Kershner apparently read the ROTJ script and said he wasn’t feeling it.

Well it is extremely likely that the main reason why Kurtz was replaced was because of cost overruns during ESB, as you mentioned. But by the time he was replaced, any kind of form of ROTJ story/script was at least a year away. So I guess the only direction he could have been “less than thrilled at” by that point, was the direction until ESB. He might have read ROTJ script later on (like many other people), but that is judging in retrospect without being involved, and therefore cannot be the reason for his departure during ESB, as he likes to claim. We all know Lucas did not have anything pre-written as Lucas himself likes to claim; he basically wrote story and script for both ESB and ROTJ only after SW and ESB were released, respectively.

It’s not that killing Han was the answer. It’s more that killing Han (or having him die a noble sacrificial death) was something quite a few people were down with, and that in itself is an indicator of what people were feeling in terms of giving the story some weight generally.

After you invest two and a half films developing romantic sub-plot between Han and Leia? That is not “giving the story some weight”, that is giving the story a slap in the face (as Ray put it).

ATMachine said:

Back in the days of writing the original SW, there was a point where Lucas depicted the rise of the Empire as a more gradual decline and fall of the Republic, rather than a power grab by a single dictatorial Emperor figure.

This was the idea in the January 1975 second draft, and it evidently persisted for a while - hence in 1976 Lucas had to tell Alan Dean Foster to take out references to it in the novelization. One slipped through, though: a mention of “the later corrupt Emperors”.

In the same conversation Lucas apparently mentions wanting Leia to become Empress at the end of the trilogy, and says he would have to discard or modify this idea if he kept to the storyline of a single evil Emperor figure instead of a more gradual transition.

So Kurtz’s idea here of Leia becoming a “Queen” does seem to derive from early SW concepts. (Including also the 1974 rough draft, where Leia becomes queen of her planet at the end, in a finale sequence much like the Triumph of the Will-style ending to SW 1977.)

A marker of how much the story had shifted to revolve primarily around Luke by the time of ROTJ is that in the story conferences there Larry Kasdan suggested having Luke, not Leia, become the new Emperor. (Lucas’ apparent idea during ESB of having both Han & Leia die in the third film, to clear the way for a Sequel Trilogy featuring Luke’s sister, likely boosted this marginalization.)

This is a great post that summarized the whole thing perfectly. Kurtz was seemingly referring to Lucas’ pre-SW drafts that were completely irrelevant by the time of ESB, and he tried to present them as the story draft for ROTJ (which did not yet exist at the time).

It sounds like the storyline where “Han dies, Leia becomes queen, Luke wanders off” was Kurtz trying to find an ending to ROTJ that wrapped up the series, but matched the darker tone of Lucas’ previous ideas from the ESB era for the third SW film (when it was supposed to feed into the ST).

Not to mention it would also allow an opportunity to return to the Sequel Trilogy at some point. Luke would basically be the same lone wanderer as in the earlier Sequel Trilogy conception, and Han and Leia would both be out of the picture, which also fits the earlier plan.

But it seems Lucas wanted to tie up what was then supposed to be the final film with a definitely happy ending. Particularly one that resolved the Han/Luke/Leia love triangle in a less dour way. Han sacrificing his life for the Rebellion was all well and good as a story idea back when Leia could end up with Luke instead, but ESB basically killed that idea (no doubt drawing on Carrie Fisher & Harrison Ford’s real-life intimacy). So Lucas kept him alive.

imperialscum said:

oojason said:

imperialscum said:

oojason said:

Kurtz was also asked to produce Revenge Of The Jedi - which he turned down for the reasons we all know…

That seems extremely unlikely. After falling out with Lucas, it would be ludicrous to think that Lucas would ask him to do anything for him after that.

Like Lucas asking him to stay around until the film was finished? As stated below in your reply to Wook? 😉

I did not want to imply that he was asked to stick around. I implied that they just let him stick around in order not to cause any trouble, like making a complaint to PGA, which could easily doom already fragile situation. 😉

The information that “he was asked to produce ROTJ” only ever came from Kurtz during his interviews (and of course secondary sources that refer to him saying so). I have not seen any other independent source confirming that information. Also, he never specified by WHO he was asked. Maybe by a voice in his head? Unless he was asked by Lucas (which is more or less impossible), it makes the whole thing completely irrelevant.

A ‘voice in his head?’ - no, somebody from Lucasfilm had obviously obviously spoke with Kurtz and offered him Producing work (or credit) on ROTJ - as of 1981, in the official Lucasfilm press release below… to which Kurtz must have agreed to.

oojason said:

• https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/specialreports/banthatracks/archives/banthatracks11.pdf

^ Bantha Tracks: Issue 11 (official Star Wars Newsletter), dated February 1981, re Revenge Of The Jedi and an official Lucasfilm press release:-

“Gary Kurtz, who produced ‘Star Wars’ and ‘Empire Strikes Back’ will serve as a Production Consultant on ‘Jedi’, while he prepares two of his own projects.”
 

So, not so ‘ludicrous’ as you think or claim, yes? 😉

As to ‘Independent source’? who are you expecting to know outside of Kurtz and high-end Lucasfilm employees that would have know he been offered the job of producing ROTJ? Do we need ‘independent sources’ to confirm Lynch was offered the chance to direct ROTJ, or Cronenberg etc?

The who and the when are irrelevant in the context of Kurtz stating he was asked to produce ROTJ - the statements came the man himself - to which nobody from Lucasfilm has challenged any of them - including George. You believe a professional and highly regarded producer (a job which requires inordinate levels of trust & professionalism) and would make continuous false claims he was offered the producer job for a famous film… when at any time the said employer - or employees - could turn around and deny it? His reputation and credibility would likely be ruined.

In fact, would a be a ‘ludricous’ thing for Kurtz to claim… if it was not true, yes? 😉

RogueLeader said:

I mean, could it be possible George and Gary talked about George’s evolving ideas for Star Wars III during production of Empire, and maybe Kurtz wasn’t thrilled about the direction they were taking, so he contributed that to his departure somewhat, regardless of whether he was fired or if he left voluntarily?

This seems very likely given the roles of both men and time spent together working on the films for many years. If Kurtz did send in that resignation letter from the company late in '79, it seems he carried on working on it - even in another role - and was asked to do further work/have credit for ROTJ.

Kurtz did putline Georg’s loose 9-episode idea for each film - and would have likely known them as his job as Producer. Though like for all the films by George - they changed a lot, and later changed more to fit George’s ‘I had it all planned out’ plan 😉

Shopping Maul said:

ray_afraid said:

Shopping Maul said:

I still maintain that Luke didn’t actually save the galaxy - a fact that renders his entire ‘new hope’ journey somewhat meaningless to me.

Luke was the only one who could get through to Vader. Vader was the only one who could destroy the Emperor.
Without Luke, there’s no hope. He saved the galaxy by redeeming his father. (or, by Returning the Jedi, if you will)

I also hate the sister thing. Luke should have gone off alone in search of “The Other” at the end.

I’ve beat this drum several times in these forums, but the best way to explain my unease wth Luke’s actions is to boil it down to the following - what exactly did Luke tell everyone at the Ewok after-party?

If he’d said “I defeated the Emperor” that would’ve been a lie. He didn’t beat the Emperor. He surrendered and circumstances luckily prevailed in a way that led to Palpatine’s demise. That’s it. What Luke actually did was a) refuse to fight (after a brief and justifiable tantrum), b) spare the life of the second most evil guy in the galaxy because…well, he’s dad, and c) declare himself a Jedi and throw his weapon aside. All of this, by the way, while countless innocent beings were being slaughtered outside.

He probably said “I redeemed my evil father, Just like I told Leia I would & he killed the Emperor.”
All of those actions, or inactions, saved the galaxy. *shrug

Nor can I see why anyone would even consider the possibility of a new Jedi Order based on these actions.

That’s EU anyway. Nowhere in the film does Luke even hint towards restarting anything.
[EDIT- I guess the ST says that Luke went on to do whatever, but that’s not in this film]

oojason said:

imperialscum said:

oojason said:

imperialscum said:

oojason said:

Kurtz was also asked to produce Revenge Of The Jedi - which he turned down for the reasons we all know…

That seems extremely unlikely. After falling out with Lucas, it would be ludicrous to think that Lucas would ask him to do anything for him after that.

Like Lucas asking him to stay around until the film was finished? As stated below in your reply to Wook? 😉

I did not want to imply that he was asked to stick around. I implied that they just let him stick around in order not to cause any trouble, like making a complaint to PGA, which could easily doom already fragile situation. 😉

The information that “he was asked to produce ROTJ” only ever came from Kurtz during his interviews (and of course secondary sources that refer to him saying so). I have not seen any other independent source confirming that information. Also, he never specified by WHO he was asked. Maybe by a voice in his head? Unless he was asked by Lucas (which is more or less impossible), it makes the whole thing completely irrelevant.

A ‘voice in his head?’ - no, somebody from Lucasfilm had obviously obviously spoke with Kurtz and offered him Producing work (or credit) on ROTJ - as of 1981, in the official Lucasfilm press release below… to which Kurtz must have agreed to.

This seems like a thing for the public not to question and wonder why he was removed and replaced. Lucasfilm always seemed to have tried to make it look like everything was fine and dandy. We did not even know he was removed until many years afterwards when people investigated behind-the-scenes for books and documentaries. Same goes for many other key figures and events of OT that we had only learned about many years after.

Even if this “Production Consultant” was an actual job (which it was not for sure) instead of just a make-up for the public, it is still by no means any kind of proof that he was offered to actually produce ROTJ. I mean you do not remove a producer in the middle of the film only to then offer him to produce a sequel.

oojason said:

oojason said:

• https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/specialreports/banthatracks/archives/banthatracks11.pdf

^ Bantha Tracks: Issue 11 (official Star Wars Newsletter), dated February 1981, re Revenge Of The Jedi and an official Lucasfilm press release:-

“Gary Kurtz, who produced ‘Star Wars’ and ‘Empire Strikes Back’ will serve as a Production Consultant on ‘Jedi’, while he prepares two of his own projects.”
 

So, not so ‘ludicrous’ as you think or claim, yes? 😉

As to ‘Independent source’? who are you expecting to know outside of Kurtz and high-end Lucasfilm employees that would have know he been offered the job of producing ROTJ? Do we need ‘independent sources’ to confirm Lynch was offered the chance to direct ROTJ, or Cronenberg etc?

The who and the when are irrelevant in the context of Kurtz stating he was asked to produce ROTJ - the statements came the man himself - to which nobody from Lucasfilm has challenged any of them - including George. You believe a professional and highly regarded producer (a job which requires inordinate levels of trust & professionalism) and would make continuous false claims he was offered the producer job for a famous film… when at any time the said employer - or employees - could turn around and deny it? His reputation and credibility would likely be ruined.

In fact, would a be a ‘ludricous’ thing for Kurtz to claim… if it was not true, yes? 😉

Like said above, Lucasfilm extremely rarely challenged anything or anyone in order to keep things appear fine and dandy. In his later interviews, Kurtz seemed very resentful of his removal, so it would not surprise me if he made it up. After all, he did use ideas from Lucas’ pre-SW drafts and tried to present them as if they were ROTJ draft (when it actually did not exist in any form at the time). Also, he tried to claim that he left because he did not like the direction in which the saga was going in order to try to cover the fact that he was fired because the ESB production ended up hugely over-budget and over-schedule. 😉

RogueLeader said:

I mean, could it be possible George and Gary talked about George’s evolving ideas for Star Wars III during production of Empire, and maybe Kurtz wasn’t thrilled about the direction they were taking, so he contributed that to his departure somewhat, regardless of whether he was fired or if he left voluntarily?

It is highly unlikely that anyone had time to talk about the sequel when the production was hugely over-budget and over-schedule to the point that it almost bankrupt the film itself and Lucasfilm along with it. And the real reason for his removal is right there; “the production was hugely over-budget and over-schedule”.

Shopping Maul said:

ray_afraid said:

Shopping Maul said:

ray_afraid said:

Shopping Maul said:

I still maintain that Luke didn’t actually save the galaxy - a fact that renders his entire ‘new hope’ journey somewhat meaningless to me.

Luke was the only one who could get through to Vader. Vader was the only one who could destroy the Emperor.
Without Luke, there’s no hope. He saved the galaxy by redeeming his father. (or, by Returning the Jedi, if you will)

I also hate the sister thing. Luke should have gone off alone in search of “The Other” at the end.

I’ve beat this drum several times in these forums, but the best way to explain my unease wth Luke’s actions is to boil it down to the following - what exactly did Luke tell everyone at the Ewok after-party?

If he’d said “I defeated the Emperor” that would’ve been a lie. He didn’t beat the Emperor. He surrendered and circumstances luckily prevailed in a way that led to Palpatine’s demise. That’s it. What Luke actually did was a) refuse to fight (after a brief and justifiable tantrum), b) spare the life of the second most evil guy in the galaxy because…well, he’s dad, and c) declare himself a Jedi and throw his weapon aside. All of this, by the way, while countless innocent beings were being slaughtered outside.

He probably said “I redeemed my evil father, Just like I told Leia I would & he killed the Emperor.”
All of those actions, or inactions, saved the galaxy. *shrug

And he would’ve found himself hanging from the nearest redwood. How many rebels would’ve lost loved ones and/or had their lives ruined under the jackboots of Vader and his buddies? How thrilled would such folk be to hear that, while Palpatine was killing people by the hundreds with his new weapon, Luke was hiding under a staircase because he didn’t want to lose his temper and risk Vader not going to Jedi Heaven?

Nor can I see why anyone would even consider the possibility of a new Jedi Order based on these actions.

That’s EU anyway. Nowhere in the film does Luke even hint towards restarting anything.
[EDIT- I guess the ST says that Luke went on to do whatever, but that’s not in this film]

Yoda says “pass on what you have learned”. The implication is that Luke will go on teach younglings how to hide under staircases in order to spare the bad guys.

Okay, now it just seems like you’re deliberately misinterpreting the movie. The message the movie was trying to get across was that everyone can change, not that you should hide under a staircase or whatever you said. And the whole “war criminal” thing doesn’t apply, because Star Wars shouldn’t be taken that seriously. It’s a mythic fantasy, not a true story.

imperialscum said:

oojason said:

imperialscum said:

oojason said:

imperialscum said:

oojason said:

Kurtz was also asked to produce Revenge Of The Jedi - which he turned down for the reasons we all know…

That seems extremely unlikely. After falling out with Lucas, it would be ludicrous to think that Lucas would ask him to do anything for him after that.

Like Lucas asking him to stay around until the film was finished? As stated below in your reply to Wook? 😉

I did not want to imply that he was asked to stick around. I implied that they just let him stick around in order not to cause any trouble, like making a complaint to PGA, which could easily doom already fragile situation. 😉

The information that “he was asked to produce ROTJ” only ever came from Kurtz during his interviews (and of course secondary sources that refer to him saying so). I have not seen any other independent source confirming that information. Also, he never specified by WHO he was asked. Maybe by a voice in his head? Unless he was asked by Lucas (which is more or less impossible), it makes the whole thing completely irrelevant.

A ‘voice in his head?’ - no, somebody from Lucasfilm had obviously obviously spoke with Kurtz and offered him Producing work (or credit) on ROTJ - as of 1981, in the official Lucasfilm press release below… to which Kurtz must have agreed to.

This seems like a thing for the public not to question and wonder why he was removed and replaced. Lucasfilm always seemed to have tried to make it look like everything was fine and dandy. We did not even know he was removed until many years afterwards when people investigated behind-the-scenes for books and documentaries. Same goes for many other key figures and events of OT that we had only learned about many years after.

Even if this “Production Consultant” was an actual job (which it was not for sure) instead of just a make-up for the public, it is still by no means any kind of proof that he was offered to actually produce ROTJ. I mean you do not remove a producer in the middle of the film only to then offer him to produce a sequel.

oojason said:

oojason said:

• https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/specialreports/banthatracks/archives/banthatracks11.pdf

^ Bantha Tracks: Issue 11 (official Star Wars Newsletter), dated February 1981, re Revenge Of The Jedi and an official Lucasfilm press release:-

“Gary Kurtz, who produced ‘Star Wars’ and ‘Empire Strikes Back’ will serve as a Production Consultant on ‘Jedi’, while he prepares two of his own projects.”
 

So, not so ‘ludicrous’ as you think or claim, yes? 😉

As to ‘Independent source’? who are you expecting to know outside of Kurtz and high-end Lucasfilm employees that would have know he been offered the job of producing ROTJ? Do we need ‘independent sources’ to confirm Lynch was offered the chance to direct ROTJ, or Cronenberg etc?

The who and the when are irrelevant in the context of Kurtz stating he was asked to produce ROTJ - the statements came the man himself - to which nobody from Lucasfilm has challenged any of them - including George. You believe a professional and highly regarded producer (a job which requires inordinate levels of trust & professionalism) and would make continuous false claims he was offered the producer job for a famous film… when at any time the said employer - or employees - could turn around and deny it? His reputation and credibility would likely be ruined.

In fact, would a be a ‘ludicrous’ thing for Kurtz to claim… if it was not true, yes? 😉

Like said above, Lucasfilm extremely rarely challenged anything or anyone in order to keep things appear fine and dandy. In his later interviews, Kurtz seemed very resentful of his removal, so it would not surprise me if he made it up. After all, he did use ideas from Lucas’ pre-SW drafts and tried to present them as if they were ROTJ draft (when it actually did not exist in any form at the time). Also, he tried to claim that he left because he did not like the direction in which the saga was going in order to try to cover the fact that he was fired because the production was hugely over-budget and over-schedule. 😉

‘Seems’ is a word - often a guess - people use when they wish to use / value a narrative or opinion etc over or contrary to fact or evidence.

As for your book claims… most strange… as you stated previously it is also years after the event that Kurtz gave his, so far, undisputed account.

And we know for a fact that Rinzler’s ‘Making Of’ books contained retcons & revisionism (at the request of George himself, according to Rinzler) - and also omitted or downplayed people’s contributions to the making of the films (even the author himself as to the Lippincott interviews / archive).

You also stated it would be ‘ludicrous’ for Lucasfilm to have anything to do with Kurtz (after your claim of him being removed and replaced / Kurtz sending in his resignation letter) - and yet when presented with a document of Lucasfilm crediting Kurtz as a Production Consultant just two years later for ROTJ… you now claim this is ‘just a make-up for the public’.

Not forgetting the official ‘Once Upon A Galaxy: Making of Empire Strikes Back’ book… which has Kurtz involved in post-production on Empire - you should really give that a read as to Kurtz’ work on Empire throughout the whole process, it is quite illuminating.
 

Available evidence and facts don’t cease to exist because they are ignored. For many, they also remain above opinion and speculation - though you are most to welcome to your opinion 😉
 

(I’ll have to leave it there - though found it fun; especially the gap-filling guesswork and dismissal of statements and documents contrary to it. Let me know if you do ever find proof to back up your opinions to continue this 😃 )