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Rogue One * Spoilers * Thread — Page 153

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Could have at least fixed the wrong color TIE lasers.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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 (Edited)

LexX said:

Could have at least fixed the wrong color TIE lasers.

Read somewhere that the ‘explanation’ at the time was that it is not the TIE-Fighters shooting the lasers - but they are X-Wing’s lasers about to hit (or miss) the TIE-Fighters.

Which sounds like a crock of shite to me.

 

I do prefer this corrected version…

but it’s still a cool cover - even with the red lasers everywhere 😃

 

 

Seems there are a few Rogue One edits on here now…

DigMod - Rise of the Rebellion: A Rogue One Edit thread - link

eldusto84 - Rogue One: The Battle of Scarif Fanedit thread - link

Mink2301 - Rogue One - Rescored thread - link

TV’s Frink - Ridiculous One: A Star Wars Story thread - link

^…^ - Rogue One - Extra Extended Edition thread - link

ForceGhostRecon - Rogue One Trailer - Fanedit thread - link

xxtelecine 7xx- Star Wars Rogue One: Darth Vader chest plate Project thread - link

&

darthrush - Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - FanEdit Ideas thread - link

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Well the TIE lasers on the left of the poster don’t make sense since they are firing at a different plane than all of the TIE fighters in that section, so it makes sense that it may be X-wing lasers. The laser on the right of the poster looks strange because it appears that there’s only one of them, when TIEs usully (always?) fire from both guns simultaneously.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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 (Edited)

oojason said:

TV’s Frink - Ridiculous One: A Star Wars Story thread - link

Haha, I won’t do this one until I finish 1-7 first and at the rate 3 is currently taking me, you can look for this one in about 2060.

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TV’s Frink said:

oojason said:

TV’s Frink - Ridiculous One: A Star Wars Story thread - link

Haha, I won’t do this one until I finish 1-7 first and at the rate 3 is currently taking me, you can look for this one in about 2060.

It’ll still be before we’ll get an official OOT release 😉

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

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oojason said:

TV’s Frink said:

oojason said:

TV’s Frink - Ridiculous One: A Star Wars Story thread - link

Haha, I won’t do this one until I finish 1-7 first and at the rate 3 is currently taking me, you can look for this one in about 2060.

It’ll still be before we’ll get an official OOT release 😉

LOL!

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 (Edited)

Now that Rogue One is on Netflix, I got the chance to watch it again last night. This is only my second time seeing it, and boy did it fall in my estimation on second viewing.

As an aside before I get into this lengthy review - the visuals remain stunning. Yes, Tarkin and Leia still look a bit fake, in the way that Jeff Bridges’s CGI double looked in Tron Legacy. They have come a long way, but still have a ways to go with realistic expressions. They should have hired some of the people who worked on the last Apes movie, that was some brilliant work. But overall, the look of the movie cannot be faulted.

I neither like nor dislike the hard open of the film. The first scene is one of the best in the film in terms of character, though even here there was some odd movement of the characters, such as the shuttle flying over Jyn’s head as she runs toward the house, then apparently circling around and landing far away from the house. Lyra’s choice to giver her life in an assassination attempt instead of protecting her child seems dubious, and Jyn’s choice to watch also seems needlessly reckless. These not-quite-right character actions will prove to be a theme throughout the film, as characters move to the beat of a predetermined plot or interesting spectacle above deep motivation.

After the heroic title swell, the exposition on multiple planets made me feel even more whiplash than in the first viewing. The scenes, in order, are:
Jyn wakes up in an Imperial prison
Cassian learns about the Death Star on a random trading post
Bodhi is taken to Saw’s Rebels
Jyn is rescued from prison
Jyn is taken to Yavin 4 and decides to go to Jedha
Bodhi meets Saw
We are introduced to Tarkin and the Death Star
Jyn has a dream (surely this was originally set before she woke up from the Prison scene)
Our ‘heroes’ reach Jedha
Bodhi is interrogated by a tentacle monster
Our ‘heroes’ enter Jedha city

The Jedha city scene is the first time I felt like the story was unfolding naturally, as Jyn meets Chirrut and Baze, and they make decisions as they are trapped in a location torn by street fighting. Everything up to this point feels like the film is telling me what I should care about and what I should know without giving me a reason to care. We should care about Jyn based on the first scene, but too much time has passed between her childhood and why she is in prison.

With regards to Jyn’s life, I am reminded of Batman Begins. Both stories have an (effectively) orphaned child growing up and being trained by an extremist military group before leaving that group and fighting for a less extreme, more idealistic vision. Batman Begins succeeds by showing us Bruce’s decisions at each step of his journey, from grieving orphan to angry youth to wandering vagrant to violent prisoner to willing acolyte to idealistic vigilante. Jyn’s journey, on the other hand, leaves us in the dark as to her decisions and motives. When we do finally learn of her journey to the prison, it amounts to Saw abandoning her in a bunker. Something is done to her, and we are only told of some later crimes she has committed which land her in jail. She certainly has every reason to turn to crime, but we have no reason to care since we haven’t made that decision with her. Our understanding is no deeper than an intellectual recognition of her victimhood. Even her journey to Jedha is compelled by the threat of sending her back to prison if she disobeys. Something is done to her, and she complies. This is why the Jedha city scene is the first real scene of the movie - Jyn makes the decision all on her own to save a small girl in a battle.

I found myself fascinated by Saw, and wished that his character had been more than a rough sketch. The hologram scene felt like the revelation and culmination of an arc that had been building for several acts, not the final note of the first act.

The Death Star intercut with the hologram scene borders on effective, but is undercut by Krennic impatiently ordering the Death Star to fire and then holding for fully three and a half minutes so that the plot can run its course. It’s very odd, since every depiction of the Death Star firing since then has shown only a momentary delay between the order to fire and the firing. Thus, instead of feeling suspense at the inevitable destruction, I felt impatience and boredom. Also strange for a movie of this scope and visual splendor is the lack of any new views of the Death Star interiors. I would have expected Gareth Edwards to have come up with shots of Kyber crystals being consumed as fuel, inner mechanisms of the station revving to life in preparation to fire, teams of technicians monitoring energy flows…any new angle on the established geography of the station. This would have given the firing more weight and realistically drawn out the sequence, providing the needed tension.

So now Jedha is gone and we are off to Eadu to kill the man that the Rebellion needs to save. It is at this point in a normal movie that our heroes would be returning to base, but then our hero would make an impassioned plea and the character in charge would acquiesce, while having an ulterior motive. This would be a reasonable, motivated decision by our characters, but instead Jyn’s still along for the ride as the guy in charge blindly follows the orders of a Rebellion that is acting illogically. To wit: even after they know that the Death Star is operational, the Rebellion still demands that Cassian kill Erso even though it’s demonstrably too late to stop the station. Cassian will still follow these orders even though it’s clear he believes that Erso is their ally. And Jyn makes the decision to save her father only after their course has been decided.

There isn’t much to discuss in the second act, since there isn’t much character being built. Jyn has already asked that the Rebellion steal the plans from Scarif, so she makes no new decisions on that front. She has already had an emotional reaction to the appearance of her father, so this one merely reinforces what already existed. Only Cassian makes a decision, but since his reasons for assassinating Erso were weak from the start, it isn’t a compelling change anyway. But now they’ve stolen a shuttle from the base they’ve just attacked, so the third act can happen.

But first, I’d like to take a detour to discuss Krennic, who makes quite a few of his own in the plot of this film. The Erso meeting in the second act is perhaps the biggest thematic detour, since this is on the heels of his conflict with Tarkin. They are in a battle over who gets credit for the station when Tarkin sends him on an errand to deal with Erso. After this meeting, Krennic immediately flies to Vader’s castle to demand Vader put in a good word for him with the Emperor. If this scene occurred directly after his spat with Tarkin, it would be natural and understandable. Placing it after the revelations about Erso’s defection and the attack on the base is less so, since a reasonable person would retreat from view to lick their wounds and hope the bad PR would blow over. It would make far more sense if Vader’s Castle happened at the end of act one, and acts two and three were concerned with Krennic’s damage control.

Jyn pleads her case to the Alliance, a case unchanged from act one. She fails to convince them, but she does get the support of a small subgroup, most of whom are entirely mysterious to us. It would have been interesting if they had rescued a group of Saw’s rebels from Jedha, and these were the ones Jyn recruited for her cause since they had a personal grudge against the Death Star. Alas, they are nameless grunts willing to disobey the Rebellion yet also so dedicated to it that they would go on an unsanctioned suicide mission. I thought that the point of Cassian’s arc was that loyalty to the Rebellion was difficult to subvert? Whatever, now we have our crew.

On their approach to Scarif, Bodhi mentions the possibility that they will recognize this stolen craft and they will die in the vacuum of space. It’s an attempt at suspense, but I wonder if it would not be more effective if this point was the impetus for their snap decision to go to Scarif. Consider that after Eadu, they instead decided to go to Scarif and bypass the Rebellion altogether since there was no way they could convince the Rebellion without Erso. The theft of the transport would be a ticking clock, as it would only a matter of time before the Empire recognized that it was missing. As it is, they are admitted without a hitch and the plot can proceed.

The final battle is still thrilling as an action setpiece, but there are many issues which are more apparent to me now. For example, the scene where Jyn and company decide on how to get the plans to the fleet makes little sense. After they recognize that they are trapped by the closing of the shield gate, K-2SO says that they could broadcast the plans to the fleet. They accept this as the only way to do it, then he immediately says that transmitting them is impossible without taking out the shield gate.

What?

Seriously, that’s what happens. For context, they are still in communication with Bodhi, who is still on board the transport and the transport is still free to fly. So instead of making the reasonable decision to get the plans and then meet Bodhi at the top of the tower, they commit themselves to broadcasting the plans without a plan for their own extraction. They instead tell Bodhi to get a message to the Rebel fleet telling them to take out the shield gate, something the Rebel fleet is already doing. The attempt to tell the fleet to do something that they are already doing leads to the deaths of Bodhi, Chirrut, and Baze, as well as the destruction of their shuttle. Furthermore, why would they assume they could even transmit anything out of the tower after it was in lockdown? The logical course of action would be to fly out of there in the shuttle and hope that the Rebel fleet managed to destroy the gate in time.

The final scenes of the film are fairly good, with my only complaints being a frustrating inconsistency between the implied sequence of events from ANH and the narrow, legalistic interpretation of Rogue One. “beamed to this ship by rebel spies”, “don’t know what you’re talking about”, and “traced the rebel spies to her” all technically fit the letter of the plot in Rogue One, but they do rather violate the spirit of ANH. The implication that the Tantive IV recieved long distance communications from a battle, Leia’s alibi due to this distance, and Vader’s detective work in uncovering Leia’s involvement are all contradicted by the events of Rogue One, so I can’t help but feel cheated out of a much more interesting and consistent version of events.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Well said, NeverarGreat.
I finally watched it for the first time last night on Blu-ray, and I definitely agree with you. I’d like to add a couple of observations. 😃 First, I simply don’t see what the movie adds to the mythos. We already knew that the Death Star has a weakness, and that someone stole the plans and delivered them to Leia. Why does it really matter who made the Death Star or who stole the plans? And, as you said, much of the ending muddies the opening of Star Wars with half-contradictions. Second, Darth Vader’s appearance was very disappointing. While it was kinda cool to see his castle, and the bacta-chamber tube he was in, it added nothing to the film. Replace him with some other Imperial stooge and the scenes wouldn’t change a bit. He was there to appease the fans, not to serve the story.

Third, I can’t believe that the Empire would dismiss the stolen Death Star plans so readily in the next film. “It doesn’t matter what technical plans they’ve discovered. This station is now the ultimate power in the galaxy…” Really?! The Rebels sent their entire fleet to get those plans, don’t you think they did that for a reason? This felt like another of your inconsistencies, NeverarGreat. Finally, wasn’t Peter Cushing too tall? I seem to remember him being barely taller than Carrie Fisher, and she was rather short too. He towered over nearly everyone.

Overall, the film, while competently made, just didn’t feel like Star Wars. (Even the color palette felt off.) It was entertaining, but lacked the magic that Episode VII has. Still, I’m glad I finally watched it. 😃

What can you get a Wookiee for (Life Day) Christmas when he already owns a comb?

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ScruffyNerfHerder said:

First, I simply don’t see what the movie adds to the mythos. We already knew that the Death Star has a weakness, and that someone stole the plans and delivered them to Leia. Why does it really matter who made the Death Star or who stole the plans?

The Death Star’s weakness never made sense, and what they came up with to fix that was pretty darn good.

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ScruffyNerfHerder said:

Finally, wasn’t Peter Cushing too tall? I seem to remember him being barely taller than Carrie Fisher, and she was rather short too. He towered over nearly everyone.

^ Seems Cushing isn’t too far off Vader’s height (with Vader having a helmet and boots - and Cushing likely wearing his slippers - as the Imperial boots were apparently uncomfortable for him to film in for any length of time)…

 

ScruffyNerfHerder said:

…I can’t believe that the Empire would dismiss the stolen Death Star plans so readily in the next film. “It doesn’t matter what technical plans they’ve discovered. This station is now the ultimate power in the galaxy…” Really?! The Rebels sent their entire fleet to get those plans, don’t you think they did that for a reason?

The full conversation from that conversation in the next film is:-

INT. DEATH STAR - CONFERENCE ROOM

           Eight Imperial senators and generals sit around a black 
           conference table. Imperial stormtroopers stand guard around 
           the room. Commander Tagge, a young, slimy-looking general, 
           is speaking.

                                 TAGGE
                     Until this battle station is fully 
                     operational we are vulnerable. The 
                     Rebel Alliance is too well equipped. 
                     They're more dangerous than you 
                     realize.

           The bitter Admiral Motti twists nervously in his chair.

                                 MOTTI
                     Dangerous to your starfleet, 
                     Commander, not to this battle station!

                                 TAGGE
                     The Rebellion will continue to gain 
                     a support in the Imperial Senate as 
                     long as....

           Suddenly all heads turn as Commander Tagge's speech is cut 
           short and the Grand Moff Tarkin, governor of the Imperial 
           outland regions, enters. He is followed by his powerful ally, 
           The Sith Lord, Darth Vader. All of the generals stand and 
           bow before the thin, evil-looking governor as he takes his 
           place at the head of the table. The Dark Lord stands behind 
           him.

                                 TARKIN
                     The Imperial Senate will no longer 
                     be of any concern to us. I've just 
                     received word that the Emperor has 
                     dissolved the council permanently. 
                     The last remnants of the Old Republic 
                     have been swept away.

                                 TAGGE
                     That's impossible! How will the 
                     Emperor maintain control without the 
                     bureaucracy?

                                 TARKIN
                     The regional governors now have direct 
                     control over territories. Fear will 
                     keep the local systems in line. Fear 
                     of this battle station.

                                 TAGGE
                     And what of the Rebellion? If the 
                     Rebels have obtained a complete 
                     technical readout of this station, 
                     it is possible, however unlikely, 
                     that they might find a weakness and 
                     exploit it.

                                 VADER
                     The plans you refer to will soon be 
                     back in our hands.

                                 MOTTI
                     Any attack made by the Rebels against 
                     this station would be a useless 
                     gesture, no matter what technical 
                     data they've obtained. This station 
                     is now the ultimate power in the 
                     universe. I suggest we use it!

                                 VADER
                     Don't be too proud of this 
                     technological terror you've 
                     constructed. The ability to destroy 
                     a planet is insignificant next to 
                     the power of the Force.

                                 MOTTI
                     Don't try to frighten us with your 
                     sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your 
                     sad devotion to that ancient religion 
                     has not helped you conjure up the 
                     stolen data tapes, or given you 
                     clairvoyance enough to find the 
                     Rebel's hidden fort...

           Suddenly Motti chokes and starts to turn blue under Vader's 
           spell.

                                 VADER
                     I find your lack of faith disturbing.

                                 TARKIN
                     Enough of this! Vader, release him!

                                 VADER
                     As you wish.

                                 TARKIN
                     This bickering is pointless. Lord 
                     Vader will provide us with the 
                     location of the Rebel fortress by 
                     the time this station is operational. 
                     We will then crush the Rebellion 
                     with one swift stroke.

^ So… the Empire doesn’t really dismiss the stolen plans at all… it is just Motti who is somewhat overconfident and also displays little regard for his own Imperial Fleet - whilst boasting about the power of the Death Star given the conversation above - and also resulted in Vader choking him seconds later.

 

Rogue One has it’s faults - many are seemingly quite subjective (and a few could possibly be explained by the re-shoots/changes) - but the height of a character and one Imperial officer in the next film with a hard-on for the Death Star becoming the basis for ‘I can’t believe that the Empire would dismiss the stolen Death Star plans so readily in the next film’, aren’t quite there.

(not discounting your premise that Motti would somehow know that it was the entire Rebel fleet at the Battle Of Scarif - which it likely wasn’t).

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

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… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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TV’s Frink said:

ScruffyNerfHerder said:

First, I simply don’t see what the movie adds to the mythos. We already knew that the Death Star has a weakness, and that someone stole the plans and delivered them to Leia. Why does it really matter who made the Death Star or who stole the plans?

The Death Star’s weakness never made sense, and what they came up with to fix that was pretty darn good.

To add to your point, I think a lot of people project their preconceptions of ANH onto RO by assuming that the exhaust port was the built in weakness. But according to Galen, the weakness was actually the chain reaction of a downed reactor.

So in a way, Rogue One actually makes the Death Star’s achilles heal more believable. The Empire may have known they had a relatively unprotected exhaust port that might down a reactor, they just didn’t know that attacking it would lead to the resulting chain reaction.

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First, regarding Peter Cushing’s height, I know that he wore slippers during filming, and that was because the boots he was issued were too small. He only wore them for the few long shots. Either way, that’s hardly a huge criticism, nor did I intend it as such, more of an observation. 😃 Second, the generals (perhaps even Tagge) would likely have brought up the size of the Rebel attack in the very passage you cited. Why not mention that the Rebels risked a huge swath of ships to get the stolen plans? You said that it likely wasn’t the entire fleet, and perhaps that’s true, but it was definitely a substantial amount of ships, and the Rebels are clearly few in number and must carefully choose their battles. Why risk so much if the plans are worth so little? I still find that part odd, but we can agree to disagree. 😃

Either way, I did find the film entertaining. And I’m very happy that other people liked it a lot. 😃

What can you get a Wookiee for (Life Day) Christmas when he already owns a comb?

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 (Edited)

So the Han Solo movie, which takes place between the first scene of Rogue One and the rest of the film, could genuinely be considered to be a midquel to the interquel which also acts as a prelude to the original film? And this will come out after a sequel to the sequel to the original trilogy?

My brain hurts.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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What about The Empire Strikes Back?

HEY GUYS IT USED TO BE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE NOW IT’S CLOSER TO THE END SO WHAT DOES THAT MAKE IT?

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NeverarGreat said:

So the Han Solo movie, which takes place between the first scene of Rogue One and the rest of the film, could genuinely be considered to be a midquel to the interquel which also acts as a prelude to the original film? And this will come out after a sequel to the sequel to the original trilogy?

My brain hurts.

Just think of it all as wheels within wheels.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

NeverarGreat said:

So the Han Solo movie, which takes place between the first scene of Rogue One and the rest of the film, could genuinely be considered to be a midquel to the interquel which also acts as a prelude to the original film? And this will come out after a sequel to the sequel to the original trilogy?

My brain hurts.

Just think of it all as wheels within wheels.

In a spiral array?

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TV’s Frink said:

What about The Empire Strikes Back?

HEY GUYS IT USED TO BE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE NOW IT’S CLOSER TO THE END SO WHAT DOES THAT MAKE IT?

Depends. It’s presently my favorite SW movie and one of the two great sequels ever made. But if the Han Solo movie sucks, I’m wiping my Harmy flash drive and throwing out my BDs, and then it will be a useless mid-end preintersequel.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

TV’s Frink said:

What about The Empire Strikes Back?

HEY GUYS IT USED TO BE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE NOW IT’S CLOSER TO THE END SO WHAT DOES THAT MAKE IT?

Depends. It’s presently my favorite SW movie and one of the two great sequels ever made. But if the Han Solo movie sucks

You mean “when the Han Solo movie sucks.”

At least that’s what I get out of reading the Han Solo movie thread.

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TV’s Frink said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

TV’s Frink said:

What about The Empire Strikes Back?

HEY GUYS IT USED TO BE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE NOW IT’S CLOSER TO THE END SO WHAT DOES THAT MAKE IT?

Depends. It’s presently my favorite SW movie and one of the two great sequels ever made. But if the Han Solo movie sucks

You mean “when the Han Solo movie sucks.”

Right. Always proofread. What a fool I’ve made of myself.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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You would think you would have learned that lesson after making your user name.