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General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread — Page 421

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And if Return of the Jedi didn’t have 35 years of nostalgia attached, it would be as lowly regarded as the juvenile, simplistic, uninspired piece of shit it actually is.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT

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DuracellEnergizer said:

And if Return of the Jedi didn’t have 35 years of nostalgia attached, it would be as lowly regarded as the juvenile, simplistic, uninspired piece of shit it actually is.

Actually you’re talking about TFA and TLJ as ROTJ is original just not something as original as butchering beloved characters.

I can answer almost all questions anyone might have about the Sith from Star Wars Legends, and please do PM me for the bd25 DEED(Despecalised Editions), as I have this version, though I can’t answer technical questions about them. Auntie Derry/Rumpelstiltskin.
Do not go gentle into that good night, Though wise men at their end know dark is right, They
Do not go gentle into that good night. “Stay Phrosty” - Lemar Kentell, my other half. Feel the love.

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If the prequels didn’t have the Star Wars name attached, they would be in discount bargain bins next to John Carter.

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rodneyfaile said:

If the prequels didn’t have the Star Wars name attached, they would be in discount bargain bins next to John Carter.

That’s a bit of an insult to John Carter, whose only crimes are the source material was pillaged by many other fantasy tales (including the prequels) over the past century, and the worst movie marketing campaign in recent memory.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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DuracellEnergizer said:

And if Return of the Jedi didn’t have 35 years of nostalgia attached, it would be as lowly regarded as the juvenile, simplistic, uninspired piece of shit it actually is.

Stay classy.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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i wish the battle of jakku was on screen in the new trilogy. i hope it gets its own film or small screen adaptation

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Play it in Battlefront !

Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!

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LordZerome1080 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

And if Return of the Jedi didn’t have 35 years of nostalgia attached, it would be as lowly regarded as the juvenile, simplistic, uninspired piece of shit it actually is.

Actually you’re talking about TFA and TLJ as ROTJ is original just not something as original as butchering beloved characters.

You mean like how ROTJ butchered Han? I might not think ROTJ is as awful as Duracell does, but it definitely isn’t good. I agree with him that most people that say it is are looking at it with nostalgia goggles on.

a trolling bantha

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His whole jealousy arc is dumb as hell.

DESTROY ALL JEDI

My name is Sprite Pepsi and I’m abstinence till I die!

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I myself enjoy ROTJ a good deal, but man, does that movie misuse its characters. What happened to Han and Leia? So engaging and charismatic in ESB, and they’re so dull in this.

Han has gone from a scoundrel to an insecure shlub, and Leia, who used to be sassy and outspoken, doesn’t really have any character here at all.

The screen is a magic medium. It has such power that it can retain interest as it conveys emotions and moods that no other art form can hope to tackle. - Stanley Kubrick

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I also feel like Luke is far too confident in the movie. The last time we saw him, he was bested by Space Hitler who was also his dad. He had hope, sure, but he seems too cool and calculated throughout Jedi.

He starts the movie as an entirely new character almost. I still like the film, I just think seeing that character development would have been better.

DESTROY ALL JEDI

My name is Sprite Pepsi and I’m abstinence till I die!

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snooker said:

I also feel like Luke is far too confident in the movie. The last time we saw him, he was bested by Space Hitler who was also his dad. He had hope, sure, but he seems too cool and calculated throughout Jedi.

He starts the movie as an entirely new character almost. I still like the film, I just think seeing that character development would have been better.

Yep. A clear indication that he’d been away finishing his training with Yoda would have helped this feel less jarring.

a trolling bantha

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^ That is what I loved about the original Marvel Star Wars comics …they had time to build up Luke’s growth in the force between Empire and Jedi . And also in Shadows Of The Empire . It wasn’t through going back to Yoda , but through the trials of war and tests of his faith in the force .

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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ChainsawAsh said:

snooker said:

I also feel like Luke is far too confident in the movie. The last time we saw him, he was bested by Space Hitler who was also his dad. He had hope, sure, but he seems too cool and calculated throughout Jedi.

He starts the movie as an entirely new character almost. I still like the film, I just think seeing that character development would have been better.

Yep. A clear indication that he’d been away finishing his training with Yoda would have helped this feel less jarring.

Not to pat myself on the back or whatever, but I think this would go a long way to help this problem…
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/460467#TopicPost460467

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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The defense I’ve heard for Han’s characterization in ROTJ is that it shows how Han progression in becoming a more selfless person. Yeah, he’s initially jealous of Luke, but when he snaps at Leia out of that insecurity, he then gives her a sincere apology, something old Han would have never done.

And at the end of the film he tells Leia he’s okay if she has chosen Luke over him, basically wanting her to be happy.

I mean it makes sense, it does show Han becoming less self-centered. I just think where its effectiveness gets brought into question is the fact that we don’t get any of this jealousy stuff until, ironically enough, after we have already found out that Luke and Leia are twins. So you could argue Han’s growth is sincere, but it feels like it is meant to be played for laughs rather than taken seriously partly because of this.

I also feel like Leia’s affirmation of her love when she rescues him (“Someone who loves you” and the subsequent kiss) should quell Han’s doubts that she no longer loves him, which might be adding to why Han’s jealousy doesn’t work for many. Though to be honest, there is not a lot of it, just the scene where Luke leaves the Ewok village and after the Death Star blows up.

So I guess for fan editors, it comes down to cutting this stuff out, but having even less of Han in the movie than there already is, or keeping it to give Han that extra bit of growth despite the silliness of it. I think the issue with keeping it is that it feels a little tacked on, rather than being thought-out character development for Han. I don’t think Ady mentioned if he was doing anything rergarding this in his ROTJ: Revisited thread but I’m curious about it.

John_ is definitely right though, the personality traits that made Han and Leia so compelling are pretty much nonexistent in ROTJ, and there’s not much that can be done to improve it unfortunately. Just feels like everyone is happy too soon in this movie, no one argues anymore. I’m sure it has a lot to do with Lucas wanting this film to be the happy ending to the trilogy, but one could also argue that after what they went through and finally being reunited, they are just happy to be together again.

Regarding Luke, I get what you’re saying Snooker and do like Ray’s approach. Having the Dagobah stuff before the rest has been a change suggested by others for several reasons in the past.
I think the major thing you would lose from this change is the mystery and build up you get by having Luke be a reveal in the film. That, and seeing Luke’s saber during the Sarlacc battle for the first time are great moments. To me, Luke has grown a lot, but I think a lot of his confidence is partly show in front of his enemies, like Jabba and the Emperor, but I also think it is partly him displaying his faith in the Force. There are moments when we see the old Luke though, like him being afraid of the Rancor, hiding from Vader during their duel, getting caught in the Ewok net, and his conversations with Yoda and Obi-Wan.

I think there are also pros and cons to implying he has trained more with Yoda in the interim. As presented in the films, Luke didn’t train anymore with Yoda, but did a lot of learning on his own between films. To me, I think it makes sense that he would try to learn on his own for awhile after feeling lied to by Obi and Yoda. Also, the way Luke acts through a lot of the film, especially the Jabba sequence, feels very dark side of Luke. Force choking, threats, killing dozens of people. It would make sense that these are things Luke would’ve learned on his own rather than being taught these things by Yoda.

Though I think what Ash said, and at least mention how Luke has continued his training during the crawl, or has gone to “find himself” or whatever could help just give the audience a little more context.

Anyway, I can see the arguments to have it the other way though too.

A little off topic, but I went back and watched through a little of the Jabba sequence while writing this up and I noticed a few other things. Awhile back I suggested that the plan to rescue Han was to actually get everyone to the Sarlacc in order to get out of Jabba’s palace and escape on a skiff. While watching the film again I noticed that when 3PO is telling them their punishment, after Luke kills the Rancor, and as soon as 3PO mentions the Sarlacc, Luke clearly nods his head. To me, this is another indication that this is what Luke wanted to happen.

This, plus ignoring 3PO’s warning about the trap door, Lando giving Leia a reassuring look after Luke falls into the pit, and Luke’s continued confidence and threats toward Jabba really seem to point in that direction.

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Something that’s always bothered me about Luke’s “reveal” - we just saw him in a hologram. Even as a kid the hoopla over Luke entering the palace seemed silly to me since we’ve already seen and heard him speak in this new Jedi mode.

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To me it just built up anticipation to see him in the flesh. I also wonder if the juxtaposition of him being cordial in the message and then threatening in person made work for a lot of people regardless of that.

I think you kind of know he is up to something when he offers the droids as a gift. So maybe it is less about what he looks like and more about what he is going to do. Good point though!

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RogueLeader said:

I just think where its effectiveness gets brought into question is the fact that we don’t get any of this jealousy stuff until, ironically enough, after we have already found out that Luke and Leia are twins.

I’d say the problem is that Han & Leia fell in love and told each other so in the previous film and again at the beginning of this one. The jealousy stuff is silly in RotJ. Han & Leia are in love at the end of ESB and the beginning of RotJ. Then, suddenly, Han worries that Leia is gonna go for Luke OUT OF NOWHERE AND BASED ON NOTHING!

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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I think it all came down to an oversight . Films are often shot out of sequence , and in the documentary From Star Wars To Jedi The Making Of A Saga , George Lucas states that when it came down to the battle between Vader and Luke in the Emperor’s throne room , he needed a reason to make Luke turn on Vader and get angry and use the darkside for a moment . That is when he decided to make Leia his sister . So, I am guessing the previous scene during the Ewok village at night played into this . The scene with Han and Leia after the Death Star explosion is the one that seems to me to have been played for laughs .

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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Apparently there’s an episode of Knight Rider where they used a SW Kenner toy as a prop.

(Does anyone know exactly which episode this is from and what this gun did?)

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‘Knight Of The Drones’ - think it was the first episode for Season Three mate (I only remember this as it was the first episode Bonnie was back in Knight Rider after being replaced April for the season before - honest! 😃)

I watched too much 80’s tv as kid…
 

Obviously I had no idea it was a re-purposed Star Wars toy gun - nice find mate 😃
 


Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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Cool find

I can answer almost all questions anyone might have about the Sith from Star Wars Legends, and please do PM me for the bd25 DEED(Despecalised Editions), as I have this version, though I can’t answer technical questions about them. Auntie Derry/Rumpelstiltskin.
Do not go gentle into that good night, Though wise men at their end know dark is right, They
Do not go gentle into that good night. “Stay Phrosty” - Lemar Kentell, my other half. Feel the love.