‘Early drafts of Solo: A Star Wars Story featured Lando Calrissian’s ‘big brother’’:-
https://twitter.com/JonKasdan/status/1168287139848773639
^ and more information in the linked article.
You give in and, and they come out of the wood works. No one is willing to search themselves. And yes, there are definitely easy ways to obtain the entire OT in this format by a simple DuckDuckGo search.
I have searched and all the links I have found are dead. I get that we want to avoid hit-n runners. I’m not one of them.
There are still alternatives…
solkap’s NJVC Custom Blu-ray Set of Harmy’s Despecialized Editions now available on Mega superb thread is still an option.
The Despecialized Editions are still available on various public and private torrent sites - in many file formats and file sizes to suit.
As well as what Jaxer said re DuckDuckGo, apparently.
Plus, some fellow members have been, on occasion, helping out those who have made an effort to join in with - and be a part of - the community on here, too.
A friendly reminder to play nice, kids.
Noted and Ill refrain from replying to him anymore as it’s obvious again he can’t help himself due to prior “entanglements”.
No, it wasn’t obvious at all.
You brought up your past with the poster into the conversation and took issue with him calling you ‘buddy’ as ‘condescending pretense’ - instead of simply discussing/debating the points made - as well as the dig above.
Knock it off. Thank you.
(time it out if you want, you’ll just be missing the point in a rush to prove your deluded nonsense)
‘deluded nonsense’?
Knock it off. Thank you.
If either of you have an issue or any questions with this, or would like to discuss it further, feel free to PM me - as to not further derail the thread.
What’s wrong with nostalgia?
Absolutely nothing mate.
For some it is “cinematic inbreeding” apparently - Disney are doing it wrong again. Using too much OT or something in their sizzle reels.
For others it was fine, okay, great, superb, piqued their interest, got them talking about the film - or maybe even looking forward to seeing it.
Or sizzle reel? Sizzle reel? Release the official damn trailer!!! It’s less than four months to go before the release and they’re still giving us sizzle reels!!! 😉 😃
‘Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker | D23 Special Look’:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n1T3HxHd7Y (from the official Star Wars youtube channel)
or here - https://twitter.com/starwars/status/1165962999720370176
‘The story of a generation comes to an end. Watch the D23 Special Look for Star Wars: #TheRiseofSkywalker.’
JediPaxis (a moderator at reddit/StarWarsLeaks) has kindly put together a ‘TROS D23 First Look Frame-By-Frame Photo Album’:-
^ There are a few other variances on the teaser poster, along with some other art for Episode IX, in the Episode IX : The Rise Of Skywalker - film & fan art, + covers etc thread in the Case Covers, Disc Labels, and Fan Art section too 😃
Ooof! - I hope those reported prices are indeed wrong 😃
Some ‘Rise Of The Resistance’ on-ride footage from D23:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p71pEENzzZI or https://twitter.com/MouseInfo/status/1165682621839372288
‘Disney Unveils International Roll-Out Of Disney+ Streaming Service; Reveals Details In Canada, Holland, Australia & New Zealand’:-
https://deadline.com/2019/08/disney-international-launches-1202671080
'Disney is to begin rolling out its streaming service Disney+ internationally in November – with a number of territories going day-and-date with the U.S.
The Hollywood studio has revealed plans to launch the service in Canada, the Netherlands, Australia, and New Zealand – the first global details for the forthcoming SVOD platform.
Disney+ will launch in Canada and the Netherlands on November 12, in tandem with the U.S. launch, while the following week the service will launch in Australia and New Zealand on November 19.
In Canada, it will be priced C$8.99 per month, or $89.99 per year, and in Holland, it will cost €6.99 per month of €69.99 per year, In Australia, it will cost A$8.99 per month or $89.99 per year, and NZ$9.99 per month or $99.99 in New Zealand’.
More info in the above link.
Edit: Disney+ now has their own official twitter account too - https://twitter.com/disneyplus
So, no info about when it’ll be available in Scandinavia?
Since HBO Nordic has (from what I’ve gathered) been quite good at releasing things more-or-less at the same time as the US it’d be kind of weird if Disney+ was as delayed here as it will be in the UK.
BTW; Is there any specific reason why the UK won’t get Disney+ until next year? That seems really weird to me.
The exclusive contracts that Sky TV have for showing the Star Wars films in the UK do not expire until sometime in 2020… (ie, https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/nov/05/sky-faces-loss-of-disney-content-as-it-leaves-the-ftse-100 - 2018 article)
I haven’t seen anything about Scandinavia, sorry.
This article has a bit of info; the German Disney+ is down for a 2020 start - and most of Western Europe too (translated):-
‘As the colleagues of Variety report, the service should expand to “Western Europe” in early 2020 - whether Germany is included is not yet clear. At the end of 2020, Disney + should also start in Eastern Europe. We therefore expect that Disney + will be available here at the earliest in early 2020 until the end of 2020 at the latest.’
Though I’ve no idea how reliable or accurate the actual article - or publication, is:-
https://www.giga.de/webapps/netflix/specials/disney-plus-streamingdienst-start-inhalt-preis
If you’re on social media it may well be worth asking the question on the respective Disney+ channels about the Scandinavian services to come?
Yeah, HBO are pretty much on the ball with their services all over the world (a few early leaks for Game Of Thrones apart 😉). Disney stuttering the release of the Disney+ around the world will likely see many opt for the Dark Side route of obtaining content they wish to see… and some may not bother with the official Disney+ service when it is eventually available in their respective countries…
Well, I’m awaiting for the inevitable youtube videos outraged at the thought of Rey winning the sabre fight vs Kylo - despite Kylo HAVING THE HIGH GROUND in that teaser poster!!! If this happen in the film it means Rey is now even more powerful than Anakin was and this is now 100% GUARANTEED CONFIRMED EVIDENCE that Rey is a total Mary Sue!!! 😉
That is one sweet and tantalising teaser poster ❤️
https://www.starwars.com/news/d23-expo-2019-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-poster-revealed
Someone has knocked up a ‘motion version’ gif of it too, here:-
https://twitter.com/sw_archive/status/1165379876989390848
The 1st TROS reel from Friday’s D23 - https://twitter.com/TheSWU/status/1164966675369865216
and “D23 ‘The Rise Of Skywalker’ Footage To Debut Monday, Description Available Now - http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2019/08/d23-rise-of-skywalker-footage-to-debut.html” - https://twitter.com/TheSWU (re the 2nd TROS reel)
Some leaked D23 footage. Spoiler alert!
https://twitter.com/NathanRojas5/status/1164962446626512896?s=20Did anyone save it?
It can also be found here mate (the 1st IX reel; only l0 seconds long, from someone’s mobile phone):-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Zq0z6I_AQ & https://twitter.com/TheSWU/status/1164966675369865216
Why is this same kind of article still being published?
Because near-on two years of this stuff just isn’t enough?
Oh… clicks, ads and $$$ from sensationalising and misleading titles and headlines with certain keywords to try and attract hits to said articles too.
It doesn’t apply so much to this article - yet there’s money to be made from peddling division, hate, toxicity and negativity online - and enforcing (repeating again and again) those views.
At no point are there quotes from Rian Johnson in the article stating he ‘subverted’ anything.
The only quotes from him in the article are…
“I think the instant you start thinking in terms of how do you not step outside of the bounds of what the original movies did, you’re not thinking the way the people who made the original movies did,” he said. “With every movie, they were pushing it forward, with every movie they were stepping outside those bounds and pushing the characters into new, emotionally honest, but surprising places."
“That’s why those movies are great. That’s why they’re alive. If they had been looking at something that came before it and saying, ‘Oh, we better not do this because that is outside of this or that,’ it would’ve been different.”
I think the video is every bit as bad as what he’s supposedly railing against (if not worse). Lest I be accused of being ‘toxic’ myself, let me reiterate that I’m left-leaning, drink soy milk, and despise what the internet has become. But this video is exactly the kind of smug clickbait crap that he’s supposedly taking a stance against. Any idiot can pull quotes from the likes of Jeremy from Geeks and Gamers and build an entire case around it. This is ridiculous. We have to get away from this stupid Star Wars tribalism and let each argument be assessed on its merit and intent, rather than these insane ‘us vs them’ rampages on both ‘sides’.
Worse than the videos he’s supposedly ‘railing against’? Seems he pulled a fair few videos, across a range of time, from far far more than just the one channel, and put together a video highlighting some of the toxic, divisive, and negative clickbait around over the past couple of years. Is what was featured in the video mis-representative of the channels featured? No.
‘clickbait crap’? Well, he did title it the ‘Review Of The Fandom Menace’ 😉 Yet I don’t see the usual keywords associated these type of videos. In fact, in the description there is nothing there apart from ‘They were nobody’.
Highlighting the content of these toxic videos isn’t ‘tribalism’ - it is giving an insight, an opinion (seemingly quite a rare one), to just what some of them are actually about and - how they operate without factual info, balance or seemingly much thought or research.
‘Ridiculous’? How is the video ridiculous? I’d say it is pretty informative - in a light & non-serious sense - given the nature of the video. I’m not aware of their being other videos out there akin to this one (if there are, please are let me know - I’d like to see how they compare, for one). Afterall, any ‘idiot’ can put together such a video?
As said before, I don’t agree with all the points made (who does?); many others likely won’t either - and will take different things from it. Though going on your post re this video alone… man, you must be absolutely scathing about the actual countless toxic, negative and divisive videos out there over the past few years… perhaps could you point me to some of your critical posts on them, please?
By the way MajorLee debated Mauler and crew on a series called EFAP and couldn’t answer/justify any of the legitimate concerns (ie plot holes, lore, character arcs etc etc) concerning TLJ. His default was along the lines of an exasperated “I don’t care, I just love this movie”. And that’s fine, but to then turn around and push this particular narrative, when he knows full well that there are wide ranging and legitimate views concerning these films, is disingenuous at best. He is literally being just as petulant a fanboy as those he seeks to bring down.
Don’t be fooled by the fact that you might agree with his sentiment.
I don’t know who those guys are, and I’m not sure what that has got to do with the video above - unless it’s something to be used against the creator of it? I don’t know anything about this Major guy (I haven’t even checked out his other videos) - seems he did a decent job highlighting some of the toxicity, negativity and absurd claims going around from a fair few youtube channels & social media, in it.
‘Don’t be fooled by the fact that you might agree with his sentiment?’ - I don’t think anyone is - it’s more about the video he made - than the character behind it (like I say I don’t know anything about him). And in this context does it matter? Probably not.
‘push this particular narrative’ - again, I don’t think he is pushing anything - other than offering an insight into what goes into many of these toxic or repeatedly negative video channels - and also what doesn’t go into them.
It seems you are attempting to somehow discredit the man behind the video - rather than discussing the actual content he highlighted in the video. A shame, that.
By the way, did you attempt a similar stance / criticism to the video creators of the more toxic channels and media which you also have taken issue with? Could you point me to some of them, please? I’d be interested in reading them.
That video should be required viewing for everyone who comes here to peddle bullshit, hate, and racism. Even if half of the assholes featured actually believe their own misogyny and racism, it’s still too many. Our culture has become toxic and this is an extension of it. The louder voices, like Zero, are just tending to their herd and keeping them angry. I almost feel sorry for their followers. I’m going to have to keep that link handy for when I’m banning trolls.
Likewise for your above response, Jason. You summed up everything that (unfortunately) needs to be repeated from time to time. People need to go outdoors occasionally. I’ve a mind to make that an announcement post. If I thought it could be done, it would be a required read before a new account is able to participate.
We could look into the possibility of doing something akin to this…
^ No worries, mate.
For us people in the UK it seems we’ll be getting Disney+ (or rather, The Mandalorian) sometime ‘early 2020’…
https://twitter.com/StarWarsUK/status/1165147142241079296
^ ‘The Mandalorian, the first live-action Star Wars series, only on #DisneyPlus. Coming to you early 2020.’
Given Disney+ launches in the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, & Netherlands mid-November… I’m sure everybody in the UK will be patient and just wait a few months for their Mandalorian fix. That the good people on the internet will not be posting spoilers or information from the series they have seen, meanwhile.
‘This is a dangerous time for the UKers, when they will be tempted by the Dark Side of the Force’…
^ and I’m not talking about Brexit (too late) or the possibility of voting for Boris in a General Election (then you are lost!) 😉
A new timeline… 😉
(though still no Holiday Special, two Ewok films, ‘The Clone Wars’ film, or the animated ‘Droids’, ‘Ewoks’ & ‘Clone Wars’ series in these… 😉)
https://twitter.com/DisneyD23/status/1165058557789687808
‘JUST ANNOUNCED: Hello there! Ewan McGregor will reprise his role as Obi-Wan Kenobi in an untitled series for #DisneyPlus! #D23Expo’
or
https://twitter.com/starwars/status/1165066376429486080
‘Hello there! Just announced at #D23Expo: Ewan McGregor will reprise his role as Obi-Wan Kenobi in a new original series, coming to #DisneyPlus.’
and also here:-
https://www.starwars.com/news/the-galaxy-far-far-away-just-got-a-little-bigger
‘The Disney+ panel was the first to announce an all-new Star Wars series in development, one that many fans have been asking to see since the closing scenes of 2005’s Revenge of the Sith. Ewan McGregor, who played Obi-Wan Kenobi, electrified the audience when he emerged following the announcement of his involvement in a new series taking place eight years after the events of Revenge of the Sith, where we last saw Obi-Wan delivering the infant Luke Skywalker to his Tatooine homestead.’
and…
https://twitter.com/getfandom/status/1165060686449238016?s=21 (with video of the announcement)
The Mandalorian trailer…
https://twitter.com/starwars/status/1165057650456850433
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOC8E8z_ifw (the official Star Wars youtube channel)
https://twitter.com/starwars/status/1165054385669279744
‘Just announced at #D23Expo, the next season of The Clone Wars will premiere in February on #DisneyPlus.’
‘Ming-Na Wen joins The Mandalorian cast’:-
https://ew.com/tv/2019/08/23/ming-na-wen-the-mandalorian-cast
With a short video clip of Ming Na Wen talking about it here:-
Mistakes were made…
It is with deepest sorrow and regret that I have to announce the sudden death of my grandmother Herta Leman. I am heartbroken. I need all the support you can offer
I am so sorry for your loss, LZ.
https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/star-wars-the-mandalorian-poster-unveiled-disney-plus
The gif is too large/long to be embedded here (and already posted in the SW News thread - though worthy of a re-post here) and also another look…
‘this is what @starwars fandom is all about’:-
Guys, does anyone know if there is a fanedit of Star Trek Enterprise last episode ? I’m rewatching the show but I don’t really want to finish with the terrible official last episode, so if there is on that cuts out all of the TNG material to leave the focus on Archer, I would welcome it.
Thanks in advance ! 😃
Enterprise Finale - No Next Generation: These Are The Voyages by ‘Insignia34’ over at FE may be of interest, Mala 😃
Hello. I’m just wondering if you have to own the official Blu-Ray release of the original trilogy to get the Respecialized Edition '97, just like in the case of the Despecialized Edition. Thank you.
Yes, my friend, you do.
As Harmy states in his opening post…
‘Fanedits and preservations are an artform and to be shared among legal owners of the officially available releases only.
Do not support piracy.’
and
‘it uses the Despecialized Edition v2.5 master as its main video source and puts the changes made in 1997 back in, mostly using the Blu-Ray version’
and under ‘Video Sources’ listed…
‘1) STAR WARS Despecialized Edition v2.5
2) STAR WARS Episode IV A New Hope Official Blu-Ray 2011’
‘Little Girl Dressed As Rey From STAR WARS Gives Us Hope’:-
https://nerdist.com/article/little-rey-disney-world-star-wars
'Fandom can be exhausting. It’s an unfortunate byproduct of loving something so much–the passion that comes with that love can be both positive and toxic. The Star Wars fandom knows this quandary well; it’s full of some of the most loving, caring fans in the world, but the internet can be vile. That love can be on the attack on a near-constant basis. It can make you question this thing you thought you loved, and make you wonder if it’s even worth it.
But then something like this video comes along and you remember that Star Wars is a space fantasy about self-discovery, finding your place in the galaxy, and conquering your greatest fears. It’s a sandbox for escapism and imagination. It’s a place where you too can be Luke Skywalker. Or Han Solo. Or, if you’re part of this new generation, Rey from Nowhere.’
https://twitter.com/reysidaisy/status/1163219540484022272
'The video [above] has gone viral from a number of accounts and shows a little girl at the Star Wars Launch Bay in Orlando’s Walt Disney World. She’s dressed as Rey and greets each passing character with the Force. She encounters a number of familiar bad guys: Darth Vader, Boba Fett, Darth Maul, Captain Phasma–all of whom merely give her a look and move on. But at the end of the line is Chewbacca and Rey, who greet her with affection; they even bend down to give her a hug.
Videos like this remind us what Star Wars still means to children, and how the galaxy’s heroes continue to inspire. It’s a good thing for any Star Wars fans–even the disillusioned ones–to see and take in. The fandom is as strong and as important as ever.’
(more links in the above article)
I don’t like the ST myself, but the Mary Sue argument is very silly and indicative of one’s attitude towards women. “We don’t hate women, we hate poorly written characters” doesn’t apply when a person defends the prequel trilogy over these films.
The Mary Sue argument is not indicative of a personal attitude against women. That is ridiculous. A person can think that Rey is a Mary Sue without thinking that all other strong female characters are Mary Sues.
I wasn’t talking about the argument as a whole, I was refering to it in the context of ST criticism. As it turns out, in those films there’s no proof that Rey is some kind of overpowered protagonist with no flaws. She doubts herself constantly, characters can best her physically, and the bulk of The Last Jedi consists of her and other characters failing to do things. So naturally, her being described as Mary Sue raises a few eyebrows.
In the context of the first six films she is an overpowered protagonist, as she just has all these Force powers despite not getting any training within a matter of days
In this context Rey is seemingly no more overpowered as two of the main protagonists from those first six films; a 10 year old child who blows up the Control Ship in TPM whilst flying for the first time in space, or with Luke piloting an X-Wing in battle and going on to blow up the Death Star (just like flying T-16s, apparently 😉) - both of whom had little-to-no training; both also within a short amount of time.
It shouldn’t surprise you, that I disagree. While all protagonists have had their moments of “Gary Stu”-ness if you will, there are a couple of elements, that come into play here. For one there are a number of skills that have been consistently attributed to trained Jedi, or more experienced students of the Force, the Jedi mind trick, the Force pull, lifting rocks, etc have all been used to display the protagonist’s progression, or lack thereof, in learning the ways of the Force. In ROTJ Luke is shown performing the Jedi mind trick for the first time early in the film. This was clearly done to show how much his character had progressed since we last saw him, and since we saw Obi-Wan perform it in ANH, when we were all in awe of what a Jedi can do. It represented the point on the horizon, the impossible made possible by learning the ways of the Force. Having Rey perform the Jedi mind trick, and the Force pull at this early stage of the story diminishes that, and sets her apart, in that she apparently doesn’t have to go through the trials and tribulations, that previous protagonists had to go through to reach that point. Secondly, defeating the dark side apprentice has consistently been used as the sort of end-boss scenario throughout the films. It has been presented as the final trial a student faces before becoming a Jedi, and the moment, where the temptation of the dark side is at its peak, because it may help the student obtain victory, but at a terrible price. Again having Rey defeat Kylo Ren very early in the game, without a hint of temptation, diminishes what came before, and again sets her apart. I think these are legitimate, and reasonable criticisms of how the creators played fast and loose with the previously established lore, and thus invited accusations of the character being too powerful too soon, which in a more, and more polarized atmosphere resulted in Rey being labeled a “Mary Sue” by some of the more extreme corners of the fandom.
but despite that her Force powers, and abilities still grow exponentially.
Can I ask what are Rey’s force powers that grow exponentially you are referring to? Are there examples of these powers growing ‘exponentially’? Stronger, sure. With more understanding of the them (late in the film) - of course; yet that likely comes from more practice over time - along with the teachings and training from Luke.
Practise over time would be a logical explanation, if the two films didn’t play out over a very short period of time. When Luke does a Force pull in TESB with great effort, most accepted this, because years had passed since the destruction of the Death Star. Practise over time, and discovering hidden powers with that practise makes sense in that context. Rey goes from being a newbie at the start of TFA to her and Kylo being pretty evenly matched in their fight against Snoke’s guards, to this in what seems a matter of days:
Rey thus progresses in her control over her Force powers over two films, like Luke did over a trilogy, which spans years, or like Anakin did over a trilogy, which spans over a decade. This would not be an issue, of we weren’t made aware, that the ST developments take place over a much shorter time span, and without the training, and guidance, that previous protagonists had recieved.
No worries on disagreeing - or having that different view 😃 Yet it is now the time spent learning the mastery of the Force Powers you have an issue with in comparison with the first six films - not the supposed ‘overpowering’ or ‘despite that her Force powers, and abilities still grow exponentially’ as to which you originally stated? Or that she has done this in a different way to what has come previously? Okay, fair enough.
It’s great to have a thoughtful debate on this subject, thanks for that! 😃 No, I still maintain she is overpowered, and that her power grows exponentially, despite not having the previously essential factors of time, and training. I say this, because she goes from being able to perform, what were previously advanced Force powers, to defeating a wounded Kylo Ren, to being able to compete at the level of a well trained Force user like Ben Solo in their fight against Snoke’s guard, to the Force pull stalemate, that ends up destroying Anakin’s lightsaber in what seems a matter of days.
Nice one - me too 😃
Rey has received some training from Luke - and now actually has a better understanding of the Force - where it was obvious she struggled in this concept before 😉 (Having already become aware of certain Force abilities and knowledge from Kylo during her interrogation. Plus, she now has those sacred Jedi texts to study from for the future too).
It’d be more accurate to say Rey competed at a level near to Kylo in the fight - from memory it seemed Kylo did most of the engaging with (& killing of) the Guards and looked more proficient with a saber - though as stated before… both only narrowly came through it be teaming up with each other.
The Force Pull stalemate… is a tricky one. I read it, and am likely quite alone in this thinking, that as the saber chose Rey previously (over Kylo too) that the saber pulls towards Rey over Kylo again. It may require s ‘higher’ level of power (effort) from Kylo to just enable the stalemate. Though overall, in the context of the scene of what it is trying to achieve, I have no issue with it either way - and certainly didn’t come away thinking… ‘huh - another example of Rey’s Mary Sueness’ as they wrestled for control of the saber - before it exploded due to the pressure of it being pulled apart.
I did refer to two overpowered protagonists’ achievements from the previous six films at a time before (or shortly beginning) their training/awareness - a la Rey on her journey; and not towards the end (which obviously hasn’t happened for Rey yet) - though if you wish to change the context again, then okay.
I’ve already argued these situations aren’t comparable, because neither Anakin or Luke were able to use advanced Force powers, or defeat a trained Force user before they received training. In fact both Anakin and Luke were defeated by the dark side apprentice, when they did receive training. Now, we can point to Anakin seeing things before they happen, and being able to compete in podraces, or him destroying the droid control ship (which was down to luck more than anything else), or to Luke guiding the missile into the exhaust port in ANH, as being overpowered, and in relation to many other characters in this universe they are, but that is beside the point. The question is are they overpowered in the context of what has been established about Force users and students of the Force in the past? The answer in my view is, that despite the fact that Anakin and Luke have been presented as having great potential (Anakin having the greatest potential ever recorded), learning the ways of the Force, and controlling it, has consistently been presented as being very hard to accomplish, and so despite their talent, it was made abundently clear, that Anakin and Luke would never be able to reach that potential, and compete at the level of a trained Force user, without time, training, and guidance.
I did say earlier we have yet to see Rey’s final part of her story - and so used examples of similar perceived overpowerment at the developing stages of the previous OT & PT protagonists. After the release of TROS - with Rey’s journey complete (and also our understanding of the character along with her interactions with the Force; the full amount of data we’ll get onscreen) I look forward to revisiting this subject 😃
What I would say is the Force is still somewhat of a mystery given we’re 8 films into a 9 film saga (and hopefully will be after IX too) - and that the mystery element of it - it’s magic, supernatural nature, sense of wonder, power, entwining with life (and death) and nature, and it’s evolving forms within the films, is something I’m glad we don’t fully understand - can categorise, or attribute power levels to, or quantify, with any full certainty.
In the Sequel Trilogy films, so far, there has been several indications there is a power at play within Rey - that something here which is quite different (or rare) to what has come before; for instance…
Maz: “That lightsaber was Luke’s. And his father’s before him. And now, it calls to you.” & “I am no Jedi, but I know the Force. It moves through and surrounds every living thing. Close your eyes… Feel it… The light… it’s always been there. It will guide you. The saber. Take it.”
Obi-Wan: “Rey - these are your first steps…”
Rey: “Something inside me has always been there, but now it’s awake, and I’m afraid. I don’t know what it is or what to do with it, and I need help.”
Rey: “I know this place.”
Luke: “Built a thousand generations ago to keep these. The original Jedi texts. Just like me, they’re the last of the Jedi religion. You’ve seen this place. You’ve seen this island.”
Rey: “Only in dreams.”
Luke: “I’ve Seen This Raw Strength Only Once Before.”
Snoke: “Come closer, child. So much strength. Darkness rises and light to meet it. I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise. Skywalker… I assumed, wrongly. Closer I said.”
Yoda: “Yes, yes, yes. Wisdom they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess.”
Yoda: “Lost Ben Solo, you did. Lose Rey, we must not.”
Along with the the Episode VII title itself is about The Force Awakening in Rey…
Snoke: “There has been an awakening in the Force. Have you felt it?”
Kylo: “She’s strong with the Force. Untrained, but stronger than she knows.”
The saber in the wooden chest calling to Rey - and then giving that powerful vision.
That the saber, the saber which belonged to Anakin and then Luke called to, and chose Rey over Kylo; a blood-line descendant and of the few powerful Force users around (we know of).
There are probably more… though I believe I have demonstrated this enough.
‘Again having Rey defeat Kylo Ren very early in the game, without a hint of temptation, diminishes what came before, and again sets her apart.’ You refer to the fight where Kylo - who hasn’t yet finished his training - (and has been shown to be emotionally unstable) was injured, weakened emotionally by killing his father, and ordered by Snoke to bring Rey to him - not kill her - but to capture her… and one he was completely on top of until Rey let in the Force to guide her… it doesn’t fit with your claim. It is apparent that she will face Kylo again in IX - and that the ‘terrible price’ you believe Rey (as the protagonist) should pay is likely still to come.
For one Kylo Ren may not have finished his training, but he was trained for years by both Luke, and Snoke, and thus was an advanced Force user being able to pull off amazing feats, we had never seen before, like stopping a blaster bolt in mid-air, or freezing an opponent with the Force. Kylo may have been injured, and emotionally compromised, but he seemed to have little trouble dealing with Finn, who received military training, and Rey up to the moment, that she let the Force guide her to victory. Which leads me to my next point, just closing your eyes, and then becoming a lean, mean fighting machine is not how the Force works. We’re talking about a novice, who up to that time believed the Jedi were a myth. As Obi-Wan said to Luke after training with Yoda, mind you:
“You can feel the Force, but you cannot control it.”
So, even after receiving training from the most powerful Jedi Master in history, Luke, who like Rey was a prodigy, cannot control the Force, let alone be expected to defeat a trained Force user, like Darth Vader, or Kylo Ren. It would be like winning a Formula 1 grand prix after receiving a week of training. What Obi-Wan is saying to Luke is, you may know where the gas pedal, and the breaks are, but you cannot control it. Driving in a simulator is not the same as driving a 1000 HP car on a real race track, and it will take years for you to master the skills to do it. This is a dangerous time for you, as you have enough skill to be able to start the car, and drive on a straight track, but once you reach some curves, odds are you will be hitting a concrete wall. Luke didn’t listen, and so Luke losing his hand in his fight against Vader, is him running into that concrete wall. Now, TFA would have us believe Rey, who has never even seen a Formula 1 car, or any car for that matter, just gets into one, and defeats a former Formula 1 champion. Even if that Formula 1 champion has a disadvantage, as Kylo does in his fight, it’s still highly unlikely for someone, who should not be able to control such a powerful machine, to finish the race, let alone come in first.
Now, I’ve already argued Kylo not having finished his training is not really a good counter point, because he’s obviously at a very advanced level, with the powers he has displayed, and knowing he’s been trained by two very powerful Force users, Luke and Snoke over a period of years. However, even if for the sake of argument, I would find that explanation reasonable, how does that reflect on him becoming the Supreme Leader in the next film? This is what bugs me about this. The character of Ben Solo goes from being an apparent master at the start of TFA to being greatly deflated by the end of the movie, which, if we ignore the situation with Rey for a moment, is fine. I mean, he is presented by TFA as kind of a poser, hiding behind a mask, pretending to be Darth Vader. However, I feel you then have to follow through with this, and so he will need to go through some kind of training (as suggested by Snoke at the end of TFA), or major development to be a credible threat again, but apparently this poser gets to not just be Darth Vader, but the Emperor a few days later (and every bit as immature, and petulant as he ever was to boot).
You refer to the scene where Rey makes that face (hardly ‘smiles and giggles’) after shooting down TIEs in trying to save more of the Resistance - her friends - who are on a ‘Hail Mary’ of a mission in attacking the First Order’s Door Ram with ski-speeders - upon her arrival at Crait:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykXWRNZiI3M
It is strikingly similar to Luke’s face or his emotions on display here (yet with less time passing); just after Obi-Wan’s death and being consoled by Leia, after they had escaped the Death Star, and also shooting down TIEs:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4dMh2SmJqY (‘That’s it! We did it!’)
As we have seen previously it is already established Rey can look after herself and is shown to be somewhat proficient with a staff and in defending herself - yet against Kylo she is is obviously outmatched and is shown to be on the backfoot for much of the fight. When she does let the Force in, at the point where she has lost, it seemingly does guide her - not control her.
This is even mentioned beforehand onscreen with the line "Close your eyes. Feel it. The light… it’s always been there. It will guide you.”
Earlier, Kylo easily disposes of Finn because he can (though Finn does get a blow in - a one-up for the stormtroopers hitting the target 😉) - there is no order from Snoke to bring Finn to him - as there is for Kylo to bring to Rey to him. It is obvious that fighting to subdue and capture someone is considerably more difficult than simply killing or maiming them - yet seemingly lost on many people who think Kylo’s aim in this fight is to kill Rey… (this isn’t at you - more of a general observation)
I do wonder if people take into consideration Kylo’s understanding of what is occurring here in the fight - can he sense Rey letting in the Force? It then guiding her in the fight to the point where is surprised by the change in ability of his opponent of which he had easily defeated just moments before? Does this throw him - make him uncertain, surprise him, take him aback? It certainly appears so.
Kylo may have been trained by two strong Force Masters - yet we know he has not completed his training, he is unbalanced, there is much anger, impatience, petulance, and he has gone unchallenged as the major Force wielder (in the eyes of most people) for some considerable time… and now ‘this girl’ who he has just easily defeated has just put him on the backfoot (and dumped him on his arse) with the Force guiding her in a saber fight. Now, again his order here is not to kill her - but to capture her…
I’ve said before, (and got a fair bit of stick for it - which is fair enough; opinions, eh?), that I don’t consider that Rey won the fight (it was closer to a draw; a rematch at Madison Sq Gardens - PPV is key 😉) - because the fight is only really over due to the break-up of the planet - and due to the restrictions of Kylo’s orders. Because the situation has now changed where he is being bested under the restrictions of Snoke’s orders, and has just resulted in him just being scarred by them and dumped on his behind (and by Rey using the Force 😉) would he have continued to only try and subdue and capture Rey if the planet had not started to break up? My guess is probably not. His anger and ego would have likely taken over - and very possibly his main objective would be now to take revenge on Rey and kill her - which I believe he could have somewhat easily done given his range of powers, training and knowledge - even with Rey using the Force to guide her.
So the events of the planet breaking up - placing both characters on either side of a chasm, followed along with the arrival of an escape route in the Falcon, is what really saves Rey here (the plot too) - and not ‘just’ her Force powers guiding her - as such.
It is similar, but that speaks against ANH, not in favour of TLJ. I think the PT and SE have made clear Lucas is not a master of tone, and that weakness is on display in this scene. However, I would also argue Lucas at least reserves a little time (not enough, mind you) for the character to reflect on what has happened in the consolation scene with Leia. Had Lucas gone the way of RJ, that reflection scene would be missing entirely. Secondly, I would argue the general tone of ANH is quite a bit different from films like TESB, and TLJ. ANH is a fairy tale of sorts, and the general tone is one of adventure and excitement, while films like TESB and TLJ take on a much more somber, and serious tone, and so I would say such a tonal inconsistency is more detrimental to a story like TESB, and TLJ, then for a story like ANH, or TFA.
Yet you chose to compare TLJ scenes and characters with the OT mate - not me 😉
Though we agree the scenes are similar - tone withstanding. We go from emotional low points - for both characters in their respective scenes - to them displaying a brief emotional high (when saving themselves or others by shooting the TIEs).
^ Sorry, I’m wrong there; Rey’s emotional low point came in an earlier scene before that (apparently learning the truth about her parents whilst still on The Supremacy).
Either way, do people really have a problem with this scene below - given the context of the situation Rey is already in (the heat of battle) - where she has already dispatched several TIEs before we see a shot of her in the gunning position on the Falcon (and the plight/situation of the Resistance too)?:-
^ and even tonally it is far from “smiles and giggles”.
The full scene in question - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykXWRNZiI3M
For some alternative viewpoints and interpretations on the character of Rey - with some insight and information through her journey in the films not often chronicled or talked about on here - these three videos may be of some interest:-
(I’m sure some will not agree in varying degrees of the content or views within, dismiss them, ignore them etc - or simply don’t have the time or will to watch them - that’s okay. If you do like them, or find them intriguing etc, please give some of the their other videos a look at - there are around 10 videos on Star Wars in total, with a few more for their podcasts too.)
‘A “Too Perfect” Female Character?’ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzl_36Gv97M (Wit & Folly youtube channel)
^ The blurb: ‘A video essay on the history of the Mary Sue and why Rey is anything but. Note that I honestly believe Rey’s journey in the sequel trilogy is more akin to a Heroine’s Journey (written by Maureen Murdock) but I wanted to make the comparison to Luke’s journey as that does seem to be what people do when arguing that Rey is a Mary Sue. I want to make a future video in which I use the Heroine’s journey to discuss Rey’s journey thus far.’
and
‘Why You Don’t “Get” Rey’ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH4BFO9U9E8 (Wit & Folly youtube channel)
^ The blurb: ‘The Heroine’s Journey is incredibly symbolic in this movie. Many people have already explored the sexual imagery in the film, but I wanted to tie in specific threads to Rey’s Heroine’s Journey, I want to also add that there is a LOT more in the film than just what I’ve covered and I hope to do more about Ben’s journey as well as more on the symbolism in TLJ… Not everything we see is intentional in the literal sense… but it is connotative, in a way.’
and
‘A Feminine Power Fantasy’ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9mv2Ad8nzI (Wit & Folly youtube channel)
^ The blurb: ‘An in-depth analysis on Rey’s Heroine’s Journey, as perhaps seen by Maureen Murdock.’
Apologies if they have been posted / discussed before.
Edit: Issues some fans had with female characters back in the Original Trilogy era - with Leia, of course…
https://fanlore.org/wiki/Princess_Leia:_Should_She_Ever_Have_Been_Liberated?
https://fanlore.org/wiki/The_AtS_Virtue-Chart_of_Heroic_Characters
https://twitter.com/rwmead/status/1625177340027322373
https://twitter.com/jere7my/status/1625186864113106947
https://twitter.com/pabl0hidalgo/status/1624894907617017856
https://www.popmatters.com/star-wars-princess-leia-feminist-2513910076.html
