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The Empire Strikes Back - a general Random Thoughts thread — Page 4

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rocknroll41 said:

I just wrote a four-part blog series about how I think ESB is overrated. You can read part 1 here if you want (each part ends with a link to the next one): https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/2020/11/the-real-reason-you-probably-dont-like.html?m=1

Really enjoyed your blog - thanks! I pretty much agree with everything you said - I guess where we part company is that I’m in that Harry Potter camp you described. I was 8 years-old when SW came out and 14 for ROTJ, so you can see why I’d be of a ‘grow with the audience’ mindset. In fact when my wife introduced me to Harry Potter, and we got to the final instalments, I was like “that right there is what Lucas should’ve done!”. So yes, I maintain that TESB is the best SW film (from my certain point of view) even as I agree with 98% of what you said. Thanks for a great read!

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Shopping Maul said:

rocknroll41 said:

I just wrote a four-part blog series about how I think ESB is overrated. You can read part 1 here if you want (each part ends with a link to the next one): https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/2020/11/the-real-reason-you-probably-dont-like.html?m=1

Really enjoyed your blog - thanks! I pretty much agree with everything you said - I guess where we part company is that I’m in that Harry Potter camp you described. I was 8 years-old when SW came out and 14 for ROTJ, so you can see why I’d be of a ‘grow with the audience’ mindset. In fact when my wife introduced me to Harry Potter, and we got to the final instalments, I was like “that right there is what Lucas should’ve done!”. So yes, I maintain that TESB is the best SW film (from my certain point of view) even as I agree with 98% of what you said. Thanks for a great read!

Thanks! Glad you liked what I had to say 😃 even if you didn’t agree with everything. To each their own! I wish more of the fanbase was better at “agreeing to disagree” like this.

https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/

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Vader’s journey to becoming Anakin again didn’t start in Return of the Jedi nor in the time between then and this movie, it started when Luke dropped into the abyss.

When Vader is going on to Luke about how they can team up, kill the Emperor, and rule the galaxy together, he’s pretty much pouring his heart out to him. He’s talking to him the same way he talked to Padme. But when Luke, by his actions, basically says “I’d rather die then join you”, that actually hurts him, deeply, as any rejection would.

Between that moment and the end of Revenge of the Sith, Vader was completely focused on the dark side and being a Sith, but this was the moment that actually brought some of Anakin out of him again. The telepathic conversation between the two pretty much cements this in my view: when he says “Son, come with me”, Vader isn’t talking to him like an evil Sith lord, he’s talking to him like a father.

It’s why he went from being the most powerful Sith of all time, with incredible feats such as ripping open the crust of Mustafar and the netherworld of the Force itself against it’s will (as seen in the comics taking place between ROTS and ANH) to being bested by Sidious (as seen in the new comics; Sidious literally outright states that it’s because he’s lost a lot of his power) and eventually Luke. It created a rift in his connection with the dark side, and he was hugely conflicted.

The arc was completed in Return of the Jedi, but it started here.

Star Wars, Paleontology, Superhero, Godzilla fan. Darth Vader stan. 22. ADHD. College Student majoring in English Education.
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G&G-Fan said:

incredible feats such as ripping open the crust of Mustafar and the netherworld of the Force itself against it’s will (as seen in the comics taking place between ROTS and ANH)

Ugh.

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I don’t think DE was implying that it isn’t something that exists. I think he was voicing disgust at the idea that such a thing does exist and that it’s being referenced on this message board.

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DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Dek Rollins said:

I don’t think DE was implying that it isn’t something that exists. I think he was voicing disgust at the idea that such a thing does exist and that it’s being referenced on this message board.

This. Absolutely this.

Power creep like this is why I’ve come to hate telekinesis, Force lightning, and the other unsubtle Force abilities.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Dek Rollins said:

I don’t think DE was implying that it isn’t something that exists. I think he was voicing disgust at the idea that such a thing does exist and that it’s being referenced on this message board.

This. Absolutely this.

Power creep like this is why I’ve come to hate telekinesis, Force lightning, and the other unsubtle Force abilities.

Yeah I mentioned on my blog that I don’t like how ESB turned the force into an excuse for “super powers,” and those powers have only been getting worse and worse ever since…

https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/

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The Force has gotten way too overpowered. They needed to place a ceiling on the extent of Force powers at some point, but they just never did, and now it’s gone far beyond what should be possible. I could let Force Lightning slide if it was rare and only something the most powerful Dark siders could use, but stuff like Force speed and Force item teleportation is just too much.

Also, I’ve realized that ESB is the only Star Wars film to end with a shot in space. (Except for Solo, maybe? I’d have to rewatch that to be sure.)

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I think “family portrait” was the phrase used inside Lucasfilm to describe the parallelism of the final shots of the OT (minus ESB) & the PT.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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I really love the moment when Vader telepathically contacts Luke and Luke immediately and instinctively replies with “Father?”. It shows that he really did know the truth deep inside.

Star Wars, Paleontology, Superhero, Godzilla fan. Darth Vader stan. 22. ADHD. College Student majoring in English Education.
My Star Wars Fan-Edits

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screams in the void said:

Wow , this guy is really ballsy , compiles a bunch of audio clips that are freely available elsewhere on youtube and tries to pass it off as an authentic 1980 radio special , with himself as the interviewer …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfcq3p0-WjA I called him out in the comments , be interesting to see if he replies .

I went and checked. He’s edited the description, adding a disclaimer that it’s him acting as the narrator and that it’s a cobbled together recreation.

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Not a new idea. There were interview records way way back in the day, with blank spaces for an local radio DJ or reporter to ask questions (via a script) of a musician or actor.

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Where were you in '77?

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Yup , and he edited the description after I called him out on it multiple times , seems he removed the comments too . here is the exchange …me -Nice faux radio show . I was almost convinced this was real .The “commercials” are taken from the call in promotion in 1980 where you could pay to hear the actors in character promoting the film ,and the interviews with the actors were conducted at the time of the films release and are available elsewhere on youtube . A google search turns up no evidence of this “1980 Radio Special " save for your video here . That said , the production value here is pretty good and that spinning tape up there enhances the illusion . To quote Mark Hamill in this , " When it’s cut together , it really looks like we’re carrying on a conversation .”

him-Thank you! I could find no recording of this special either.

me-lol . A bit disingenuous to try and pass it off as authentic no ? kinda ballsy .

him- Not at all. I read the DJ script that came with the record full of interviews and assembled it just how they did in 1980.

me- this still gives one the impression that you are the one doing the interviews. Perhaps you should put that in the description. And do you have a link or source for this record you mentioned ?

him-Thanks for listening and I appreciate the kind comments from the start.

me- sarcastic more than kind . So , where can this non existing record with the DJ script be found ?

him-Here you go my friend - the non-existing record. https://bid.vegalleries.com/The-Empire-Strikes-Back-Radio-Interview-Record_i36820718

me- ok , I will concede that I was wrong about that record existing , took some digging beyond your link and found a listing for it on the star wars collectors archive . Not very much info on it online .Still , why not just play the record itself , or note that this is a reconstruction of its contents in your description for this video ? I still think its misleading and disingenuous not to do so . Specifically , if you had added this to your description " (Lucasfilm, 1980) A radio interview record for The Empire Strikes Back. Records such as these were sent to radio stations with a list of questions and cues included, so that local radio stations could “interview” the cast of the film. " , and mentioned that you were reading the script that came with the record in order to recreate the experience of a radio station airing it , it would have cleared up a lot of confusion .

him- dude, the only thing on the record were the interviews. Nothing else - I crafted the entire radio show around the static interviews that were on the record itself. Please feel free to make your own version if you dont care for what I’ve done. I look forward to seeing it!

me- the production is not the issue , it’s the fact that you did not state this information in your videos description that is the problem . Any user unaware of this record would think that is your original production and that you were the one conducting the Interviews back in 1980 . Or that maybe you obtained broadcast rights from Backstage Productions Incorporated, as the sleeve on the record script suggests in the expired listing you linked to in response to my comments.

so yeah , he went back and added the disclaimer with this disingenuous remark…(PS: Yes, this is a RE-CREATION of a radio show that no copies seem exist of - yes it is ME doing the narration. Apparently, it’s so authentic sounding it’s fooling people…compliment, I suppose?)

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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I got curious about how cropped the Falcon cockpit shots really were since I knew they were about 9% smaller on subsequent releases, so I compared the most recent Blu-Ray to the raw footage from the “Celebrating 40 Years of Empire” video and my god. There’s more image left out than there was left in.

cockpit

George must’ve really hated how open they made that little set.

Here’s how it could of looked, cropped to 2.35:1. A little more spacious, but not overly.

fixed

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I think that was done because having the camera closer to the characters makes it feel more tense as it feels more claustrophobic

Star Wars, Paleontology, Superhero, Godzilla fan. Darth Vader stan. 22. ADHD. College Student majoring in English Education.
My Star Wars Fan-Edits

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So, I’ve thinking about how Luke is always upside down anytime he gains a new ability in the Force.

He’s upside down when he pulls the saber to him, when he has the premonition about Cloud City and when he calls to Leia for help.

I’ve never seen anyone comment on this and was wondering if you all had any thoughts?

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Verboten said:

So, I’ve thinking about how Luke is always upside down anytime he gains a new ability in the Force.

He’s upside down when he pulls the saber to him, when he has the premonition about Cloud City and when he calls to Leia for help.

I’ve never seen anyone comment on this and was wondering if you all had any thoughts?

There was an intriguing and insightful video on this not so long back…

I’ll try and dig it out a little later. 👍

Edit: found it:-
 

How Empire Turns Star Wars On Its Head’:-

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btp1BoGbuiM - a 9 minute video at the So Uncivilized youtube channel.

 
 

Of course, Aussies wouldn’t understand any of that as they actually live in the upside down… or do they…?

😉

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

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How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

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… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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This could almost fit into the small details thread, but I don’t think it’s particularly obscure.

I wonder why they (Kershner?) decided it was so important to make sure Lando demonstrated proper safety protocols by wearing a safety harness & clipping in when getting onto the Falcon’s roof and grabbing Luke under Cloud City. It’s also such a shame any shots of Lando actually on the roof of the Falcon grabbing Luke were cut.

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As a kid I used to often wonder what happened to any of the rebel soldiers left behind on Hoth. The ones out in the battle vs the walkers that the Empire didn’t or couldn’t find, or hiding in the base, or out on patrol elsewhere. And who didn’t have a rebel transport or ship to leave the planet sometime later.

Anyone know of any good EU/Legends or fan stories on this?

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timdiggerm said:

This could almost fit into the small details thread, but I don’t think it’s particularly obscure.

I wonder why they (Kershner?) decided it was so important to make sure Lando demonstrated proper safety protocols by wearing a safety harness & clipping in when getting onto the Falcon’s roof and grabbing Luke under Cloud City. It’s also such a shame any shots of Lando actually on the roof of the Falcon grabbing Luke were cut.

That was strange. Were the film companies at the time doing some “safety” promo work for the government around that time? Obi-Wan and Luke were shown to to belt up in the Falcon in Star Wars too. I think there was an anti-smoking advert with threepio and R2 around the time as well?

And the old joke about Ewoks having handrails everywhere in ROTJ, so they were actually more advanced than the Empire!

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Marooned Biker Scout said:

As a kid I used to often wonder what happened to any of the rebel soldiers left behind on Hoth. The ones out in the battle vs the walkers that the Empire didn’t or couldn’t find, or hiding in the base, or out on patrol elsewhere. And who didn’t have a rebel transport or ship to leave the planet sometime later.

Anyone know of any good EU/Legends or fan stories on this?

There are a few fan films on YouTube that sort of cover that. “Rebel Scum” is probably the most well known video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiu2Tc2HdLo

But I don’t know of any books that do. There must be some out there, it is too good a situation for starting an interesting story.

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timdiggerm said:

This could almost fit into the small details thread, but I don’t think it’s particularly obscure.

I wonder why they (Kershner?) decided it was so important to make sure Lando demonstrated proper safety protocols by wearing a safety harness & clipping in when getting onto the Falcon’s roof and grabbing Luke under Cloud City. It’s also such a shame any shots of Lando actually on the roof of the Falcon grabbing Luke were cut.

I like to imagine that Lando, as a facility administrator, had many prior difficulties with laborers not following proper safety protocol. I imagine that he would have demonstrated himself on several occasions how to follow Space OSHA requirements when doing maintenance on the underside weather vanes, so when it came time to rescue Luke he would be a massive hypocrite if he didn’t follow his own regulations.

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Marooned Biker Scout said:

As a kid I used to often wonder what happened to any of the rebel soldiers left behind on Hoth. The ones out in the battle vs the walkers that the Empire didn’t or couldn’t find, or hiding in the base, or out on patrol elsewhere. And who didn’t have a rebel transport or ship to leave the planet sometime later.

Anyone know of any good EU/Legends or fan stories on this?

Good or not, two come to mind. Marvel comic #78 is a classic one. Then later, in the game Jedi Academy you go on a mission to Hoth after ROTJ. I don’t really remember what actually happened in either of them but as a Hoth fan I appreciated these when I encountered them.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.