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StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread — Page 109

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What the hell is this shite?

Thread locked.

Do not carry on the conversation into other threads on here - thank you.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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All,

I’ve cleansed the last three pages of all the bullshit. In the interest of having the thread read somewhat coherently, some of you may have had your posts deleted. Those were just collateral damage because they had quotes of the derailed discussion. If I did have a problem with them being hateful or wildly off-topic, I’ve already reached out to you to explain. If you haven’t heard from me, you haven’t overstepped.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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doubleofive said:

https://www.starwars.com/news/rebel-starfighters-owners-workshop-manual

These theatrical frames are much closer to Legacy’s than any other source, just slightly different coloring.

I can’t even see a color difference between this and the legacy preview. It looks Identical to my eyes.

This will probably build our hope to be inevitably smashed when nothing ever gets announced. 😛

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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I very much doubt that they’re using Legacy.

Legacy’s best bet at being legitimized by Lucasfilm was pre-sale, when Lucasfilm wasn’t interested in spending too much money, and wasn’t really wishing to allocate much budget to original version pursuits. In that atmosphere, a freelance film restorer making a pitch that he’ll do the work at a low cost for them is attractive. This ignores, however, that Reliance was already contracted for (and delivered) their own 4k restoration of the 1997 SE negatives (which were then updated to replicate the 2011 blu-ray versions) shortly before the sale was completed.

Post-sale to Disney? Theres’ no reason for Disney to entertain the same pitch, because not only do they already own all the elements they’d need to restore the original versions, but they have access to some of the finest (if not THE finest) technical facilities for film restoration in the business currently, and have no budgetary issues, self-imposed or otherwise, to worry about when it comes to that restoration. I don’t see a possibility existing where Verta, on his own, could create a salable product that could compete with what Disney could do in-house, much less Disney choosing to forgo their own in-house work for Verta’s.

edit: Whoever is making that twitter thread is being pretty irresponsible w/ their speculation there. I can understand WANTING it to be evidence that LFL is using SW Legacy. But it honestly doesn’t make sense to extrapolate from those two shots in a tie-in book that Legacy is now official product.

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Honestly, I think now is the time Disney would be most likely to release unaltered OT in some capacity. With the recent acquisition of FOX, they no longer have to play nice with another company to do it.

Not saying they definitely are, but if there’s a time to consider a release, it’s now.

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The acquisition of Fox has nothing to do with whether originals can or should be released. I understand why that’s become part of the narrative over the years, but it’s never at any point been a hindrance or a roadblock to the original versions being released. Fox still owned distribution rights the last time it happened, for example.

The question of “playing nice” with another company has never really been a question because Fox had never NOT played nice.

I do think the Skywalker Saga box set is maybe the best chance we’ve had SINCE 2006 for a legitimate home theater release of the originals, though, and if ever there was a time I’d suggest that it’s okay to maybe sort of get your hopes up, it’s now. But I also don’t think whatever the original versions on those disks will be, will have anything to do with Mike Verta’s fan-restoration.

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Broom Kid said:

The acquisition of Fox has nothing to do with whether originals can or should be released. I understand why that’s become part of the narrative over the years, but it’s never at any point been a hindrance or a roadblock to the original versions being released. Fox still owned distribution rights the last time it happened, for example.

The question of “playing nice” with another company has never really been a question because Fox had never NOT played nice.

I do think the Skywalker Saga box set is maybe the best chance we’ve had SINCE 2006 for a legitimate home theater release of the originals, though, and if ever there was a time I’d suggest that it’s okay to maybe sort of get your hopes up, it’s now. But I also don’t think whatever the original versions on those disks will be, will have anything to do with Mike Verta’s fan-restoration.

If they have any interest in releasing the OOT, then it’s not totally improbable that they would use Legacy in some capacity. The quality is certainly of a high enough caliber for an official release from what we have seen. Plus Mike has already had contact with Fox/Disney after he was “approached” last summer after his presentation. See this post: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/StarWarsLegacycom-The-Official-Thread/id/1418/page/106#1214875

But again… it all comes down to the question of whether or not Disney even has any interest in releasing the OOT in the first place. I have zero confidence in the company at this point so I will never get my hopes up again.

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

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I’m the “irresponsible” one in the Twitter thread. I don’t see how LFL could have even accidentally scanned the exact print in the exact way with the exact damage with the exact cleanup. Even if they have their own better scan, THIS book is using Legacy. I didn’t say it was an official project. They are using it as a resource if nothing else.

And if they’re taking screenshots from a Vimeo preview for their books, they’re a hell of a lot worse off than we ever imagined.

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If they’re taking screenshots from Vimeo previews for their books, how is that a sign of anything deeper or more troubling? Deeper or more troubling than what? It’s a tie-in book that probably won’t really sell a whole lot to anyone who isn’t already a superfan. What signs are you seeing in the decision by an editor or graphic designer to use a frame from a Vimeo screencap that are so troubling?

“If they have any interest in releasing the OOT, then it’s not totally improbable that they would use Legacy in some capacity.”

I don’t know, I find it pretty close to totally improbable. Again, setting Verta’s pitching & public speaking abilities to the side - the only real time his project could be all that viable was when there were budget constraints applied to the release of the original versions on home video, where his fan-restoration would be considered as a legitimate alternative due to the cost savings.

But with those constraints removed, you’d have to suggest that a home video release of the original versions, the first since 2006 (when budgetary restrictions were in place) would be a licensed version of a fan-restoration created from theatrical release prints when Disney itself, again, owners of some of the finest film restoration technology in the industry, has access to not only the Reliance 4K re-scan and remastering of the 1997 SE negatives, but the original film elements necessary to re-create a theatrical version if they so chose.

I just don’t see it. Especially since they’d have to go to the effort and energy to create their own restorations of Empire and Jedi anyway, since Verta’s Legacy project only applies to the first movie, and there’s no way they’re only doing an original theatrical version of Star Wars for this still-hypothetical original versions release, and forgoing Empire and Jedi as well. If they’re going to do their own versions of Empire and Jedi, why wouldn’t they just do Star Wars as well. Not just for the sake of uniformity, but because there is no doubt whatever they’d do in-house would be better than even the best of Verta’s efforts.

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It might not be a sign of anything.

That said, I will say LFL using/releasing Legacy is not that far fetched. There’s a pretty decent case to be made that they only reason we haven’t seen new releases of the OOT is because they don’t care enough to restore them. Yes Disney is a massive company with deep pockets, but the home video market is a dying one, so it’s not crazy to think a proper restoration might not be in the budget. In this scenario, being offered a restored version on a platter might be something they’d be open to.

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They’d still have to do the other two, though. And at that point, why wouldn’t they just do all three? Especially since they already have access to the material they need in a higher quality than theatrical release prints.

If I’m wrong, I’ll be happy to be wrong, because it means the original versions finally got a proper home theater release, no matter what. Although I’m certain there’ll be something that jumps out at the eagle-eyes among us that necessitates further fan-restoration is needed. But at least at that point we’d be working from a very high-quality 4k source to make whatever changes need to be made.

But I don’t see Lucasfilm releasing the original versions and using Verta’s fan-restoration as part of them.

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Broom Kid said:

If they’re taking screenshots from Vimeo previews for their books, how is that a sign of anything deeper or more troubling? Deeper or more troubling than what? It’s a tie-in book that probably won’t really sell a whole lot to anyone who isn’t already a superfan. What signs are you seeing in the decision by an editor or graphic designer to use a frame from a Vimeo screencap that are so troubling?

If Lucasfilm continues to have to go to fan restorations they found on YouTube over actually restoring the film, then there’s something wrong there. Film history is being ignored because fans posted clips somewhere? What if they accidentally use Revisited or any of the other fan edits that are right next to it online? Why would they know to reference Legacy if they didn’t have Legacy on hand?

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doubleofive said:

If Lucasfilm continues to have to go to fan restorations they found on YouTube over actually restoring the film, then there’s something wrong there. Film history is being ignored because fans posted clips somewhere? What if they accidentally use Revisited or any of the other fan edits that are right next to it online? Why would they know to reference Legacy if they didn’t have Legacy on hand?

Film History isn’t being ignored. There’s a considerable difference between a film being restored or preserved and a film being sold on a home video format of choice. One is a question of preservation, the other is a question of consumerism. You may ask “well what good is preservation if I can’t buy a copy of it at the store” and I get that question, but film history isn’t being ignored, and the original version of Star Wars isn’t going to disappear from history because it wasn’t pressed onto 4k UHD disc.

I would suggest we’re seeing that screencap used in that book because the book is low-priority tie-in merch handled by an outside company and editorial oversight isn’t as stringent as it was for Rinzler’s books. That’s similar to CNN’s docu-series having someone use a clip from Despecialized. These sorts of discrepancies happen frequently at many other companies, too - video game companies using google searches for material instead of going into their own archives is an example off the top of my head. Lucasfilm/Disney isn’t necessarily immune to such things.

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Broom Kid said:

They’d still have to do the other two, though. And at that point, why wouldn’t they just do all three? Especially since they already have access to the material they need in a higher quality than theatrical release prints.

If I’m wrong, I’ll be happy to be wrong, because it means the original versions finally got a proper home theater release, no matter what. Although I’m certain there’ll be something that jumps out at the eagle-eyes among us that necessitates further fan-restoration is needed. But at least at that point we’d be working from a very high-quality 4k source to make whatever changes need to be made.

But I don’t see Lucasfilm releasing the original versions and using Verta’s fan-restoration as part of them.

Listen, I as much as you hope they do a proper restoration using the actual elements. But also, corporations are lazy. It’s not implausible to suggest they might take the easiest possible route when given the option.

doubleofive said:

Broom Kid said:

If they’re taking screenshots from Vimeo previews for their books, how is that a sign of anything deeper or more troubling? Deeper or more troubling than what? It’s a tie-in book that probably won’t really sell a whole lot to anyone who isn’t already a superfan. What signs are you seeing in the decision by an editor or graphic designer to use a frame from a Vimeo screencap that are so troubling?

If Lucasfilm continues to have to go to fan restorations they found on YouTube over actually restoring the film, then there’s something wrong there. Film history is being ignored because fans posted clips somewhere? What if they accidentally use Revisited or any of the other fan edits that are right next to it online? Why would they know to reference Legacy if they didn’t have Legacy on hand?

Something to consider though, it’s not an altogether unlikely an explanation that the people writing these books are as much a fan as we are, and specifically sought out the Legacy clip to use for the book. You could even say that this is the Occam’s razor explanation - the shot from Legacy is arguably the highest quality clean still of that shot out there, which is why it might have been used.

Important to note as well, the writers do not technically work for LFL, they work for Haynes publishing.

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DominicCobb said:

Something to consider though, it’s not an altogether unlikely an explanation that the people writing these books are as much a fan as we are, and specifically sought out the Legacy clip to use for the book. You could even say that this is the Occam’s razor explanation - the shot from Legacy is arguably the highest quality clean still of that shot out there, which is why it might have been used.

Important to note as well, the writers do not technically work for LFL, they work for Haynes publishing.

The Authors said:

Because Lucasfilm considers the revised version “canon,” I didn’t know whether they’d allow Haynes to use the earlier still frames, but I’m glad that they did, simply because the original version more clearly illustrates the X-wing’s S-foils in operation.

I suppose it is possible that Haynes got permission to use images they just happened to have found. Hell, maybe the authors themselves found it. However, there is a slight color change in the Death Star, which I was taking to mean that the rough Legacy preview on Vimeo had been further tweaked.

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Whatever it means, it certainly demonstrates LFL is much more relaxed about imagery of the original versions being out there. 10 years ago, I’m positive they’d have had to have used the SE.

“After a time, you may find that having, is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” - Spock

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I’m not going to read too much into this. They have access to the best sources for these shots, going back to the original Vista Vision plated. They could well have just pulled some frames from the archive and cleaned them up to be presentable.

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Broom Kid said:
There’s a considerable difference between a film being restored or preserved and a film being sold on a home video format of choice. One is a question of preservation, the other is a question of consumerism. You may ask "well what good is preservation if I can’t buy a copy of it at thFilm history isn’t being ignored, and the original version of Star Wars isn’t going to disappear from history because it wasn’t pressed onto 4k UHD disc.

Disappearing from the collective conscious is a form of cultural erasure and a legitimate issue, such that many efforts over the years (like the website you and I are posting on right now) have sought to highlight as much for a while in the face of an unchanging corporate entity.

Seeking only the most natural looking colors for Star Wars '77

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It hasn’t disappeared from the collective conscious at all. This site is part of that, but even if this site had never sprung up in the wake of Lucas (not a corporation, but a specific man) refusing to release the original versions on home video (and then releasing them again anyway, only to not release them again, only to later give the okay to the screening of a 70mm print at the Academy) the original versions wouldn’t have disappeared from the collective conscious, if only because it was literally too successful for it to have done so. The idea that Star Wars could suffer from cultural erasure of any kind is pretty far-fetched considering how huge its pop-cultural footprint is, was, and will continue to be for some time.

Film history isn’t being ignored. Our desires to be able to purchase an original version of the movie is being thwarted, and has done so for a long time now - and it most definitely sucks, and I don’t like it. But there is most definitely a difference between film preservation, and film restoration, and being able to buy a blu-ray on Amazon. What we’re upset about is a consumerist concern, not a preservationist one.

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You’d be amazed how many casual fans think Jabba the Hutt has always been in the original film. When even people at Lucasfilm don’t always know when they’re looking at an SE shot, some damage to the historical record has been done.

Until there’s another screening of an original print we won’t know if it was just a one off for an event in which the SE would have been pointless, or a real relaxation of George’s preferences.

People can see Gone With The Wind or The Wizard of OZ and experience more or less what audiences saw in 1939, but seeing Star Wars exactly as it was in 1977 has become somewhat more difficult in the past 20 years.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Broom Kid said:

But there is most definitely a difference between film preservation, and film restoration, and being able to buy a blu-ray on Amazon. What we’re upset about is a consumerist concern, not a preservationist one.

No, we’re upset about both.

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The acquisition of Fox absolutely makes a difference. It wasn’t released before because Lucas was in charge and didn’t want to.

Disney has no such creative qualms. They care primarily about the bottom line.

Releasing any restoration would be an enormous money maker, and Fox owning distribution rights means that Disney would only get a small percentage of those potential profits.

Fox no longer being an issue means that Disney can take full advantage of the guaranteed money without having to share profits. There is MUCH more incentive to do so with the Fox acquisition.

It wasn’t that Fox didn’t want to release it and that was stopping Disney. It’s that Disney didn’t want another company taking so much potential profit.