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Star Wars Episode IX (was) to be directed by Colin Trevorrow - DUEL OF THE FATES RIP — Page 13

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I feel like Finn + Rey was pretty heavily setup in TFA. Part of my issue with Poe (and Kylo to an extent) is that it’s not setup in the earlier movies (or in Kylo’s case just TFA).

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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Rey’s line to Kylo, “I do,” is totes a wedding vow. Kylo carries her across the threshold onto his shuttle in TFA, too.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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Oh god, the Reylo virus is spreading! 😛

In all seriousness though, I don’t see many romantic undertones in Rey and Kylo’s relationship. Certainly not enough to warrant a “they got married and lived happily ever after” type situation, especially considering all the things Kylo did.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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I think their tension in TLJ is pretty obvious.

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There’s tension, but it’s shown in a very abusive way, with Kylo forcing himself on Rey through their connection. The defining moment at the end is Rey choosing to cut off the Force bond, showing that she doesn’t want any of what Kylo is promising. It’s one of many moments in the third act intended to set up Trevorrow’s script, making the sudden director change really jarring.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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Pretty sure that neither Kylo nor Rey care for the Force Skype at the beginning, but by the middle of the film there is the beginning of a real romantic connection. Of course Kylo goes back to negging by the end of the film which causes Rey’s rejection but that’s not really what’s happening during the majority of their connection.

I’d actually argue that their connection until the Throne Room is much less problematic than either of the other part 2 romances in the Saga.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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NeverarGreat said:

Pretty sure that neither Kylo nor Rey care for the Force Skype at the beginning, but by the middle of the film there is the beginning of a real romantic connection. Of course Kylo goes back to negging by the end of the film which causes Rey’s rejection but that’s not really what’s happening during the majority of their connection.

I’d actually argue that their connection until the Throne Room is much less problematic than either of the other part 2 romances in the Saga.

Pretty much.

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NeverarGreat said:

I’d actually argue that their connection until the Throne Room is much less problematic than either of the other part 2 romances in the Saga.

Can you elaborate on this? I kind of understand your point with Anakin and Padme, but is Han and Leia seriously worse than Reylo?

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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I still don’t think there’s a romance implied on her part going towards him. I think he feels like a romantic attachment is something he can use (and enjoy should his ploy to flip her actually work), but I have never, in all my rewatches of The Last Jedi, seen it coming from her direction, towards him. I’m not denying there aren’t charged moments, scenes, and an undercurrent making itself felt. But I’m also saying that aspect was placed in the narrative for a very specific purpose, and that purpose came to its logical conclusion at the end of the movie when she rejected him outright.

Basically: He put it out there, sure. And she said “I don’t like you like that. I don’t like you at all.”

The throne room is a complicated, dramatically satisfying, amazing back and forth. But she’s not there to get a boyfriend. She’s there to win a war. He’s there to turn her so he can use her to fulfill his power fantasy. That’s the dynamic. It’s laid fully bare by the end what it really was, and said as plainly as possible in the text and the subtext by the end of the movie.

Reylo started as run-of-the-mill fun fanfiction and ended up becoming - basically - a political wedge issue within fandom circles. It grew to encompass symbolic aspects far beyond the story it sprang from, and came to represent larger fandom concerns (and legitimate injustices within those circles), and honestly was like a giant vortex of personal projection, fueled largely by substitution of symbolic meaning for actual meaning.

Within The Last Jedi itself, though? “Reylo” was basically feinted at and then shut down in its final two reels. And it was shut down BY Rey. Decisively, too.

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StarkillerAG said:

NeverarGreat said:

I’d actually argue that their connection until the Throne Room is much less problematic than either of the other part 2 romances in the Saga.

Can you elaborate on this? I kind of understand your point with Anakin and Padme, but is Han and Leia seriously worse than Reylo?

In totality, the Reylo dynamic is more toxic than Han/Leia, but they really run in opposite directions. Han/Leia starts out with a bit of earnest attraction in Star Wars, then devolves in Empire to a toxic relationship by two domineering personalities. By the end this is revealed as a mask for their genuine affection for each other.

Rey/Kylo stars out as toxic as they come, with Kylo wanting Rey for his power fantasy and Rey using Kylo’s power against him, taking it into herself and becoming his opposite. In TLJ this relationship is explored, and Rey believes that their connection means that they can be reconciled. However by the end the Yin/Yang of this relationship is revealed. Each is incomplete without the other, yet their values are also irreconcilable due to the nature of their power (darkness rises, and light to meet it). The implication is that neither can change without destroying the balance between them, and this forces them into a stalemate by the end of the film and Rey decisively rejects Kylo’s call to the darkness.

Of course TROS craps all over this nuanced view of their relationship by simply making them a ‘Dyad’, whatever that means. Kylo could always turn to the light without affecting their balance of power, apparently, which places the fault for their toxic relationship entirely at Kylo’s feet. So with TROS Reylo is definitely more toxic than Han/Leia, but I think there was potential in the final installment for an exploration of their relationship which would have lead to a satisfying synthesis of the Yin/Yang power dynamic while also not excusing Kylo’s genuinely bad behavior.

TL;DR: You’re right that Han/Leia was better but I like pretending that TROS was actually an entirely different and better movie.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)