oojason said:

SparkySywer said:

What exactly is the point of trying to catalog every single movie mistake in this trilogy?

This isn’t a ‘movie mistake’ thread at all - as mentioned previously in the thread…

Are you sure? What is a “poor-quality VFX shot” if not a movie mistake? Why include movie mistakes like Qui-Gon going grey or the lamp cable being visible, which have nothing to do with CGI?

Honestly, I think the full scale battle droid props mesh well with their CGI counterparts. Lucas should have done something similar with the clone troopers by having actors portray them in close ups shots. Yes, I know that as clones they all have to be the same size but you can easily work around that in close up shots, like they way Peter Jacksson made the actors for the fairly-short-in-statuer hobbits appear smaller than the actors actually were.

I can’t help but feel that a lot of the critiques of the prequel vfx are misguided. The don’t look amazing, but nobody would care if the writing, acting, and editing were good. Case in point, go back and watch project 4k77 and tell me the original 1977 vfx of star wars are not distractingly bad, they are, basically all vfx before about 2005 are. Obviously they were a limitation of their time but so were the prequels! If everyone is invested, suspending their disbelief, then the vfx won’t matter as long as they serve their purpose. The storytelling of attack of the clones is SO bad, that I did not realize until I was in my twenties, after watching it 10s of times growing up, that I did not realize they tried to kill Padme so she wouldn’t speak out against the war. That is a BASIC part of the movie’s story that’s so obfuscated by the bizarre decision to remove her senate speech, that I didn’t realize for 20 years, even though I knew the movie so well I could repeat it line for line as it played! I messed around for about two days and came of with a fan edit that most people I showed it to agreed was more watchable than the original. I changed no CGI, did no fancy trickery, just cut what was in the theatrical and added a few deleted scenes.

The original 1977 vfx are not distractingly bad. Apparently zoomers think that being able to tell something is a model, a puppet, or a costume instead of an Unreal Engine 5 render covered in smoke and particle effects means that it’s bad.

SparkySywer said:

What exactly is the point of trying to catalog every single movie mistake in this trilogy? Especially when it’s not like it’s unknown that the prequel trilogy has them. This isn’t some repository of evidence proving a point. It feels like those 12+ hour long youtube videos nitpicking every single movie mistake and plot hole in the sequel trilogy, which people rightly called stupid. It doesn’t actually give you any deeper insight into these movies, and the movies you did like are full of them too.

It’s a small Star Wars fan editing site where the majority of its existence was about fixing the prequels, with attention to detail. It existed long before huge youtube video essays. This is a repository of evidence proving a point, the over-reliance on CG effects and the rushed nature of the movies.

Anchorhead said:

Absolutely and that’s the problem (for me) with how the prequels look like video games. Lucas went with style over substance, so there was very little effort given to making an interesting story. It’s all used up in spinning colors. The prequels suffered badly because of it. I can easily forgive obvious CGI (Jumanji 1995) or claymation (Tauntaun in Empire) if I’m invested in the story. Truthfully, I don’t give it a second thought. I don’t drive to the movie theater so I can check on the current state of CGI technology.

What’s not interesting about the story? What about the story isn’t substance?

Style over substance, like Anakin and Obi-Wan having an insane duel, twirling and swinging and hopping over an angry river of lava. A flashy climax overcompensating for a trilogy of mediocre character development, where “great friends” only briefly felt like great friends an hour ago, because the last two films built nothing but resentment between them.

Or like a trilogy built around the complex fall of a democracy, with a beautiful, enormous sci-fi senate complete with floating pods filled with different alien races, but where all the maneuvering relies on extreme contrivence or the heroes’ blind stupidity.

Or - to keep in the spirit of this thread - the countless scenes filled with weird gaffs and glitches, or that feel uncanny and unnatural, with stilted performances from confused actors; when two people in a room would have sufficed, and probably would have allowed them to act.

henzINNIT said:

Style over substance, like Anakin and Obi-Wan having an insane duel, twirling and swinging and hopping over an angry river of lava. A flashy climax overcompensating for a trilogy of mediocre character development, where “great friends” only briefly felt like great friends an hour ago, because the last two films built nothing but resentment between them.

Obi and Anakin banter in AOTC. They also bicker and have resentments. I think that also is substance to showcase the issues between them that would make an account of how Anakin could feel resentment of Obi to the point of being willing to kill him. You also say briefly felt like friends, when Obi and Anakin spend nearly all of the first half of ROTS being friendly with each other, with a couple minor moments of issues. I have no real issue in criticizing the substance of the story, but that doesn’t mean I think it lacks substance as a whole.

I don’t think this carries too different of a substance issue than some OT relationship or character stuff is my thing.

Ley’s be clear, this doesn’t mean that I don’t think that things in the PT movies, certain set pieces and action parts aren’t showcases of style more than substance. God is funny! I saw a video about an example. I think there’s a point to the Maul and Qui and Obi fight as an example, but the fight is almost near entirely style over substance as a set piece, with a lot of things and areas that are more kinda there to be visual and/or plot devices.

The big droid factory set piece in AOTC is another example of that to me, where I think there’s more logic to it technically, but it’s still a mostly useless set piece I think with just a mass of plot device to have seemingly cool action moments and some comedy.

Or like a trilogy built around the complex fall of a democracy, with a beautiful, enormous sci-fi senate complete with floating pods filled with different alien races, but where all the maneuvering relies on extreme contrivence or the heroes’ blind stupidity.

This seems more, to me, like a criticism of the substance it has, not the lack of it. I think that the fall of democracy is there and the pieces that go along with it is a substance. Also, I don’t necessarily agree with the idea of extreme contrivance or heroes blind stupidity as a whole. But that’s more me in some cases.

oojason said:

^ Degenspear…

As previously stated to you - both here and here - please stop with the performative trolling / baiting; plus in here it is plainly stated in the OP of the thread… that if anyone wants to talk about the many other issues of the Prequel Trilogy - other than the poor CGI and CGI-affected scenes in the PT - to use the other far more relevant threads already addressing those topics…

Please don’t accuse me of performative-ness. Second of all, I engaged in the conversation at hand about the style over substance angle and agreed that the movies have that. Just disagreed on where that’s applied in some capacity.

The Attack of the Clones portion is both sad and hilarious. This movie completely ruined the Jedi for me. All that hype and mystery to see what the Jedi were like in their temple…and it’s nothing but an awful CGI kindergarten class ran by sexless monks who ban children from having families and feelings SMH

I’m not going to pretend the Prequel Trilogy didn’t rely too heavily on CGI or that there weren’t some pretty obvious misses in that department. We all agree on that point.

But honestly, this thread feels like it was designed just to slowly post every single frame from the trilogy one by one, nitpick something in each of them, keep going until there are no frames left, and then say, “See? We checked every frame and none of them are good. That proves that the Prequels suck.”

I genuinely don’t see what the point of this thread is supposed to be beyond that.

Connor MacLeod said:

The Attack of the Clones portion is both sad and hilarious. This movie completely ruined the Jedi for me. All that hype and mystery to see what the Jedi were like in their temple…and it’s nothing but an awful CGI kindergarten class ran by sexless monks who ban children from having families and feelings SMH

First of all, that doesn’t happen. None of the Jedi are ever said to be sexless (which even if they were, how is that a criticism?), and no one ever tells children not to have feelings.

What’s wrong with a kindergarten class, for children?

As for no families thing, what ruins them about these things?

Spartacus01 said:

I’m not going to pretend the Prequel Trilogy didn’t rely too heavily on CGI or that there weren’t some pretty obvious misses in that department. We all agree on that point.

But honestly, this thread feels like it was designed just to slowly post every single frame from the trilogy one by one, nitpick something in each of them, keep going until there are no frames left, and then say, “See? We checked every frame and none of them are good. That proves that the Prequels suck.”

I genuinely don’t see what the point of this thread is supposed to be beyond that.

I’ve suggested myself issues with some CGI, in spite of me not seeing it as an issue overall. I think some things here don’t really add anything, like the cord on Padme’s dress thing? Who cares? How is that a CGI issue? The cord isn’t CGI or CGI affected, so what’s the problem?

Dagenspear said:

Connor MacLeod said:

The Attack of the Clones portion is both sad and hilarious. This movie completely ruined the Jedi for me. All that hype and mystery to see what the Jedi were like in their temple…and it’s nothing but an awful CGI kindergarten class ran by sexless monks who ban children from having families and feelings SMH

First of all, that doesn’t happen. None of the Jedi are ever said to be sexless (which even if they were, how is that a criticism?), and no one ever tells children not to have feelings.

What’s wrong with a kindergarten class, for children?

As for no families thing, what ruins them about these things?

Spartacus01 said:

I’m not going to pretend the Prequel Trilogy didn’t rely too heavily on CGI or that there weren’t some pretty obvious misses in that department. We all agree on that point.

But honestly, this thread feels like it was designed just to slowly post every single frame from the trilogy one by one, nitpick something in each of them, keep going until there are no frames left, and then say, “See? We checked every frame and none of them are good. That proves that the Prequels suck.”

I genuinely don’t see what the point of this thread is supposed to be beyond that.

I’ve suggested myself issues with some CGI, in spite of me not seeing it as an issue overall. I think some things here don’t really add anything, like the cord on Padme’s dress thing? Who cares? How is that a CGI issue? The cord isn’t CGI or CGI affected, so what’s the problem?

Dude, the prequel Jedi suck. Lucas ruined the Jedi for me. Really think about this: the Jedi take infants from their parents and forbid them from seeing their parents ever again, making them commit to a lifestyle that forbids relationships and having emotions at the age of 2 years old!!! That is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard. I grew up reading Tales of the Jedi which Lucas had no part of (thank God) where Jedi had families and children and spouses. They had emotions. They were more like mystical knights of the round table, not Vulcan monks. I always hated the notion that you have to be 2 years old to be a Jedi. I remember even as a kid watching that scene from PM when Mace says 9 year old Anakin is too old and being completely dumbfounded at how lame and stupid that is. Also the notion that any sentient parent would give their kids away to a bunch of space monks and agree never to see them again is not only stupid but unbelievable. Awful world building. Who in the right mind would ever want to be a Jedi ? In reality, and under these circumstances, 90% of the Jedi would become Sith because being a Jedi sucks. The Jedi come across as inhuman in the prequels, which means that they do not resonate with me on an emotional level at all. I can tolerate it if I ignore episode one and two and just watch episode three.

They come across as sexless to me. Sure this isn’t explicitly stated in the film but I’ve read a lot of prequel lore and Ive never come across scenes where Jedi are having casual space orgies when not on duty but if you can show otherwise, fine. It hardly makes any difference to me.

What’s wrong with the kindergarten class for children? IT IS LAME!!! That’s what’s wrong. And you honestly think that children can commit to a lifestyle of suppressing emotion and not having relationships? I have kids and I’ve raised kids and this “world” that Lucas created is completely unbelievable and total BS . Children, whine, and cry all the time. They are pure emotion, parents or no parents. And the direction for that specific scene is one of the worst sequences in all Star Wars to me. I feel embarrassed every time I watch it. For me attack of the clones is one of the worst films ever made. I can tolerate revenge of the Sith, and some parts of the Phantom Menace,but not attack at the clones. I hate that movie.

I always thought before the prequels the Jedi were more like the Lensman of the Galactic patrol with a little bit of Knights Templar in them. But the notion of the Jedi being like meditative monks is there in Yoda in TESB. But I didn’t think all Jedi would be like Yoda. In fact, I though he was more like the Yoga master Lucas originally pictured him as.

The Buddhist philosophy goes back to Empire. Why does Yoda need a lightsaber at all, why does Palpatine.

Anakin being an orphan isn’t a bad idea per se. You could still tell the story Ben talked about in Star Wars and have Owen as his older brother. Anakin would be adopted.

Did he really have to be a virgin birth.

I never pictured the Jedi as a body politic or like the Vatican. The whole sitting in a council thing, that was boring to me. My idea was more along the lines of the EU, the Jedi were peacekeepers who had families.

Like the Samurai master to their student.

Connor MacLeod said:

Dagenspear said:

Connor MacLeod said:

The Attack of the Clones portion is both sad and hilarious. This movie completely ruined the Jedi for me. All that hype and mystery to see what the Jedi were like in their temple…and it’s nothing but an awful CGI kindergarten class ran by sexless monks who ban children from having families and feelings SMH

First of all, that doesn’t happen. None of the Jedi are ever said to be sexless (which even if they were, how is that a criticism?), and no one ever tells children not to have feelings.

What’s wrong with a kindergarten class, for children?

As for no families thing, what ruins them about these things?

Spartacus01 said:

I’m not going to pretend the Prequel Trilogy didn’t rely too heavily on CGI or that there weren’t some pretty obvious misses in that department. We all agree on that point.

But honestly, this thread feels like it was designed just to slowly post every single frame from the trilogy one by one, nitpick something in each of them, keep going until there are no frames left, and then say, “See? We checked every frame and none of them are good. That proves that the Prequels suck.”

I genuinely don’t see what the point of this thread is supposed to be beyond that.

I’ve suggested myself issues with some CGI, in spite of me not seeing it as an issue overall. I think some things here don’t really add anything, like the cord on Padme’s dress thing? Who cares? How is that a CGI issue? The cord isn’t CGI or CGI affected, so what’s the problem?

Dude, the prequel Jedi suck. Lucas ruined the Jedi for me. Really think about this: the Jedi take infants from their parents and forbid them from seeing their parents ever again, making them commit to a lifestyle that forbids relationships and having emotions at the age of 2 years old!!! That is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard. I grew up reading Tales of the Jedi which Lucas had no part of (thank God) where Jedi had families and children and spouses. They had emotions. They were more like mystical knights of the round table, not Vulcan monks. I always hated the notion that you have to be 2 years old to be a Jedi. I remember even as a kid watching that scene from PM when Mace says 9 year old Anakin is too old and being completely dumbfounded at how lame and stupid that is. Also the notion that any sentient parent would give their kids away to a bunch of space monks and agree never to see them again is not only stupid but unbelievable. Awful world building. Who in the right mind would ever want to be a Jedi ? In reality, and under these circumstances, 90% of the Jedi would become Sith because being a Jedi sucks. The Jedi come across as inhuman in the prequels, which means that they do not resonate with me on an emotional level at all. I can tolerate it if I ignore episode one and two and just watch episode three.

They come across as sexless to me. Sure this isn’t explicitly stated in the film but I’ve read a lot of prequel lore and Ive never come across scenes where Jedi are having casual space orgies when not on duty but if you can show otherwise, fine. It hardly makes any difference to me.

What’s wrong with the kindergarten class for children? IT IS LAME!!! That’s what’s wrong. And you honestly think that children can commit to a lifestyle of suppressing emotion and not having relationships? I have kids and I’ve raised kids and this “world” that Lucas created is completely unbelievable and total BS . Children, whine, and cry all the time. They are pure emotion, parents or no parents. And the direction for that specific scene is one of the worst sequences in all Star Wars to me. I feel embarrassed every time I watch it. For me attack of the clones is one of the worst films ever made. I can tolerate revenge of the Sith, and some parts of the Phantom Menace,but not attack at the clones. I hate that movie.

In broad strokes I agree, especially the Tales of the Jedi part and Attack of the Clones being the worst, but you’re way overstating it and saying some things that aren’t true

JadedSkywalker said:

I always thought before the prequels the Jedi were more like the Lensman of the Galactic patrol with a little bit of Knights Templar in them. But the notion of the Jedi being like meditative monks is there in Yoda in TESB. But I didn’t think all Jedi would be like Yoda. In fact, I though he was more like the Yoga master Lucas originally pictured him as.

The Buddhist philosophy goes back to Empire. Why does Yoda need a lightsaber at all, why does Palpatine.

Anakin being an orphan isn’t a bad idea per se. You could still tell the story Ben talked about in Star Wars and have Owen as his older brother. Anakin would be adopted.

Did he really have to be a virgin birth.

I never pictured the Jedi as a body politic or like the Vatican. The whole sitting in a council thing, that was boring to me. My idea was more along the lines of the EU, the Jedi were peacekeepers who had families.

Like the Samurai master to their student.

Yoda reminded me of Don Juan from the Teachings of Don Juan by Carlos Casteneda more than a Buddhist monk…

But going back to the bad CGI, I found the CGI to look so fake in ROTS (I don’t own AOTC, TPM was on film so looks decent) that I actually traded my 4K copy for the DVD because I think the lower resolution makes the movie more tolerable. The 4K makes everything look so bad. Has anyone else subscribed to this notion and prefer 480p resolution for the prequels than 4K Ultra HD? I heard 4K makes the effects look worse because they were originally rendered in 1080p

It would take some convincing for me to believe lower than the negative sources might be better. But I would love to see a scan from the interpositive.

I think the work they did on Phantom Menace to prep it for 3D, is where the denoising and DNR came in, but this is conjecture at best on my part. Has zero to do with uprezzing the cgi. Which they do all the time for 2k effects shows that end up on a 4K UHD.

I think the issue with the number of shots and the amount of time they had to do them. Its a production issue and the most glaring example are on Attack of the Clones. Lower number of shots you can expect more detail say in a film with 400 shots. Not over 2000.

Connor MacLeod said:

Dude, the prequel Jedi suck. Lucas ruined the Jedi for me. Really think about this: the Jedi take infants from their parents and forbid them from seeing their parents ever again, making them commit to a lifestyle that forbids relationships and having emotions at the age of 2 years old!!! That is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard. I grew up reading Tales of the Jedi which Lucas had no part of (thank God) where Jedi had families and children and spouses. They had emotions. They were more like mystical knights of the round table, not Vulcan monks. I always hated the notion that you have to be 2 years old to be a Jedi. I remember even as a kid watching that scene from PM when Mace says 9 year old Anakin is too old and being completely dumbfounded at how lame and stupid that is. Also the notion that any sentient parent would give their kids away to a bunch of space monks and agree never to see them again is not only stupid but unbelievable. Awful world building. Who in the right mind would ever want to be a Jedi ? In reality, and under these circumstances, 90% of the Jedi would become Sith because being a Jedi sucks. The Jedi come across as inhuman in the prequels, which means that they do not resonate with me on an emotional level at all. I can tolerate it if I ignore episode one and two and just watch episode three.

The only thing we ever see in the movies is a Jedi getting the permission of the parent to take a child. Nowhere in any of the movies are any of the children ever said to be forbidden from seeing their parents. But also, to me, that sounds similar to a closed adoption that you’re describing basically I think. On top of that, the Jedi are said to be allowed to leave the order, no one is forced to stay that we see.

Again, nowhere in any of the movies is it ever said emotions are forbidden. Plenty of Jedi express emotions in all of the PT movies and it’s never chastised that I remember. Most we get is the discouraging of fear, anger and hate.

Adoption exists. Also, a child with potential for destructive powers being trained to control them and not harm themselves or others with them, why do you think that’s not buyable? Especially considering Jedi are allowed to leave and aren’t forced to stay as far as I think is said.

You didn’t tell me why they’re inhuman. People in real life commit to jobs and lifestyles that restrict their personal lives. Why is being a Jedi inhuman when humans do similar things?

They come across as sexless to me. Sure this isn’t explicitly stated in the film but I’ve read a lot of prequel lore and Ive never come across scenes where Jedi are having casual space orgies when not on duty but if you can show otherwise, fine. It hardly makes any difference to me.

Why does it matter to you even if they were sexless? What’s wrong with that? Plus I think Lucas said they weren’t sexless.

What’s wrong with the kindergarten class for children? IT IS LAME!!! That’s what’s wrong. And you honestly think that children can commit to a lifestyle of suppressing emotion and not having relationships? I have kids and I’ve raised kids and this “world” that Lucas created is completely unbelievable and total BS . Children, whine, and cry all the time. They are pure emotion, parents or no parents. And the direction for that specific scene is one of the worst sequences in all Star Wars to me. I feel embarrassed every time I watch it. For me attack of the clones is one of the worst films ever made. I can tolerate revenge of the Sith, and some parts of the Phantom Menace,but not attack at the clones. I hate that movie.

Considering no Jedi in the movies ever said that suppressing emotion is what jedi’s do, and Yoda, Obi, Qui and Mace all show emotion in the movies I think, I don’t know why you think children would have to commit to a lifestyle of suppressing emotion or not connecting with people, as the movie has said in that attachment and possession are what the Jedi instruct against more. Kids in that scene I think are shown showing emotions. Yoda in that scene I think shows emotions.

Yes, children whine and cry. Like Anakin does in AOTC and Obi doesn’t beat him or tell him not to have feelings. He gives him a stern talking to and it’s implied I think that this wasn’t the first time.

Dagenspear said:

Why does it matter to you even if they were sexless? What’s wrong with that?

LOL!😂 If you can’t see what is wrong with that I got nothing to say to you bro