Fantasia Special Edition 35mm Restoration 1.0 (released) — Page 2

Hydra Spectre said:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=112856&page=67

According to the Blu-ray forums, the Swedish dub on the Blu-ray (and possibly other 5.1 dubs) have a better Fantasound 90 discrete mix than even the 2000 DVD. These are lossless, but they will be of higher bitrates than the 2000 DVD (640 kbps Dolby Digital vs. 448 kbps Dolby Digital) or equal in the case of DTS.

The most interesting one would be the Japanese Blu-ray, since it has a lossless DTS-HD MA 5.1 mix for the Japanese dub, and it may be similarly untampered, with the benefits that come with being lossless. Ideally, patching the Deems Taylor narration to the centre channel of a dubbed track (hopefully, the Japanese one if it is untampered Fantasound 90) would give us the best surround experience.

I suppose someone would love to try it.

Hydra Spectre said:

Is it okay if I can PM the 2010 Swedish (Dolby Digital 5.1, 640 kbps) and Italian (DTS 5.1, 1,509 kbps) dubs to anyone who is interested in hearing if they are good Fantasound 90 recreations?

Until someone gets a hold of the Japanese Blu-ray, either dub (preferably the Italian one if it does have the untampered Fantasound 90 mix) would do good for the main audio (with the LaserDisc being used to patch the dialogue).

Why would you think they have Fantasound 90 recreations? I would think they are the same mix as the 2010 US blu.

I own a Nordic release of the 2010 Fantasia, and it comes with Swedish, Finnish, Norwegian, and Danish dubbings— all in 640 kbps Dolby Digital.

Absolutely none of them are the Terry Porter remix. They are a mixdown of the master 7.1 audio track.

Porter’s remix used the surrounds sparingly and only during very specific sections of music, per Stokowski’s scoring notes. In the 2010 Dolby Digital tracks— yes, even the international ones— the surrounds are “on” the entire time. This does not reflect the original Fantasound design. The only internationally dubbed tracks that have the Terry Porter remix are the 2000 DVDs that carried the 1990 restoration, and even then they were always in 2.0 Dolby Surround at 192 kbps.

Danricode said:
Maybe for some weird reason your Nordic release have a fold down of the 7.1 mix but if you want I can provide you with the tracks I am talking about so you can hear for yourself.

Sure, I’d love to hear them. Based on your description, there’s a very strong chance that what you’re hearing is the 2000 mix which, yes, does contain a slightly watered down version of Terry Porter’s restoration with almost none of the surround effects playing where they should, but I’ll know for sure once I can isolate and playback the channels. DM me whenever.

Thanks for sending me the file. I did an A/B comparison of the mix you sent and the tracks from the 2010 Nordic release. They’re 100% identical. Every one of them. Same chirpy compression artifacts above 8000 Hz during loud passages of music, same mono mixdown of the stereo L/R channels playing in the fronts, while the actual L/R channels from Fantasound are confined to the “rear” section of the mix— it’s all the same.

The 7.1 channel layout for the score is as follows:

1/2 = Mono mixdown of Fantasound L/R
3 = Fantasound Centre
4 = LFE
5/6 = Fantasound Centre (w/ Reverb)
7/8 = Fantasound L/R (w/ Reverb)

The 5.1 mixdown combines channels 5 to 8 into a standard 5/6 rear.

I should clarify something, because I don’t think I did the first time: yes, the 2010 7.1/5.1 mixes utilize the surviving phone line transfer mix, and panning does exist in these mixes. However, it is not the discrete 1990 mix used in 70mm film projections. The hard pans from left to right are placed behind the viewer when they should be coming from the front at all times. It’s literally a backward version of what the original mix did, which followed the action on the screen while the music played near or behind the screen. Again, Terry Porter’s mix followed Stokowski’s original mixing notes to the letter, using the surrounds only during specific moments of the film, and the 2010 mixes do not reflect that sound design. It has every channel pumping music through every speaker at all times, and even the placement of the true stereo L/R isn’t where it should be.

If you’d like, I can send you the mixes from the Nordic release so you can conduct (pardon the pun) your own comparisons. But take my word for it, it’s all the same 2010 mix. To get a discrete LCRS version of Terry Porter’s restored mix, you’d need to find a 70mm blow-up print of the 50th anniversary reissue, and not only are those as rare as hen’s teeth, but you’d have to get a sound facility even capable of capturing it properly. The LaserDisc track remains the best officially released option among all the home video releases.