Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 710

I just don’t understand why this concept is so far fetched. You guys think Trump has no idea what he’s doing in office. Fine. You also believe that the caravan is not dangerous, while Trump obviously does. This leads to the idea that Trump taking action against the caravan validates your belief that he doesn’t know what he’s doing. That’s all I was saying. It’s not like some sort of grand plan that only a genius could come up with. It’s literally sending military forces to stop people from entering the country. That’s not exactly an intricate plan.

TV’s Frink said:

Well obviously I’m exaggerating, he only wants to rape them, and only the hot young ones.

Let’s maybe calm down here.

But you guys really think he actually wants to solve problems, let alone problems that actually exist? Are you really this gullible?

Sure he wants to solve problems. But since he seems to think that a trade deficit with a country equates to that country getting a ‘better deal’ than us, it’s safe to assume that he has no earthly idea how to solve them.

The idea that Trump is exploiting the Caravan of Courage in order to accomplish his goal of a building the Wall isn’t crazy or gullible.

Dek Rollins said:

You also believe that the caravan is not dangerous

I believe there is no caravan. There are people who sneak across the border, yes. Are they dangerous? No. Is there one happening right now that the National Guard is specifically going to intercept? No. Does this warrant the mobilization of military troops? No.

It’s a stupid idea drummed up by paranoid white nationalists.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

You also believe that the caravan is not dangerous

I believe there is no caravan.

Did you read the story?

Oh. I admit I hadn’t.
…So now I did.

I’m still assuming whatever ideas Trump has he pulls out of his ass (or out of the ass of the person who most recently talked to him) regardless of whether or not there’s data to support it. Forget actionable intelligence, just real data that isn’t wingnut conspiracy theory.

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

You also believe that the caravan is not dangerous

I believe there is no caravan.

OK

There are people who sneak across the border, yes. Are they dangerous? No.

Actually that’s just false. There are plenty of dangerous people who cross the border illegally, just like there are dangerous people in country legally. Dangerous people and non-dangerous people sneaking through are not mutually exclusive.

Is there one happening right now that the National Guard is specifically going to intercept? No. Does this warrant the mobilization of military troops? No.

Um… You believe wholeheartedly that Trump is an idiot who doesn’t understand his own job and who believes in crackpot conspiracy theories all over the board, but now it’s a stretch that he’s using military action on a situation that doesn’t demand such action. You’re giving him more credit than you claim he deserves.

It’s a stupid idea drummed up by paranoid white nationalists.

I thought that’s exactly what Trump is.

Dek Rollins said:

Actually that’s just false. There are plenty of dangerous people who cross the border illegally, just like there are dangerous people in country legally. Dangerous people and non-dangerous people sneaking through are not mutually exclusive.

There are dangerous people. Period. Whether or not a few of them exist in a group that crosses the border has little point. We already have lots of dangerous people in this country who were born in this country to people who were also born in this country. It’s paranoia to single out illegal immigrants as some sort of significant threat worthy of mobilizing armed forces. As though there isn’t something better the Guard could be doing.

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

Actually that’s just false. There are plenty of dangerous people who cross the border illegally, just like there are dangerous people in country legally. Dangerous people and non-dangerous people sneaking through are not mutually exclusive.

There are dangerous people. Period. Whether or not a few of them exist in a group that crosses the border has little point. We already have lots of dangerous people in this country who were born in this country. It’s paranoia to single out illegal immigrants as some sort of significant threat worthy of mobilizing armed forces. As though there isn’t something better the Guard could be doing.

You just admitted that what you said was false, which means my statement was not incorrect. You made my point for me.

Are you trying to say that it’s out of Trump’s character to use an unnecessary level of military force to stop migrants from entering the country?

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

Actually that’s just false. There are plenty of dangerous people who cross the border illegally, just like there are dangerous people in country legally. Dangerous people and non-dangerous people sneaking through are not mutually exclusive.

There are dangerous people. Period. Whether or not a few of them exist in a group that crosses the border has little point. We already have lots of dangerous people in this country who were born in this country. It’s paranoia to single out illegal immigrants as some sort of significant threat worthy of mobilizing armed forces. As though there isn’t something better the Guard could be doing.

You just admitted that what you said was false

I did? Which part of what I said?

Citation also needed for it being false.

JEDIT: Oh, you mean that caravans do exist? Sure. Okay. People cross the border illegally all the time. That doesn’t make one specific occurrence of it special, or worthy of military action. And it doesn’t mean Trump still isn’t pulling the idea to do something about it out of his butt or on a whim from what someone said because they said it recently enough.

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

Actually that’s just false. There are plenty of dangerous people who cross the border illegally, just like there are dangerous people in country legally. Dangerous people and non-dangerous people sneaking through are not mutually exclusive.

There are dangerous people. Period. Whether or not a few of them exist in a group that crosses the border has little point. We already have lots of dangerous people in this country who were born in this country. It’s paranoia to single out illegal immigrants as some sort of significant threat worthy of mobilizing armed forces. As though there isn’t something better the Guard could be doing.

You just admitted that what you said was false

I did? Which part of what I said?

You said that there are dangerous people, period, and alluded to the idea that there are in fact bad people who come across the border, but that we shouldn’t focus attention on them.

Citation also needed for it being false.

Your original statement was that no dangerous people enter this country illegally. That statement is false, and no citation is needed. Our old pal Ferris even mentioned running into murderers who happened to be illegal aliens, and that’s just one cop. Like I said, dangerous people and non-dangerous people entering the country are not mutually exclusive. I’m not talking about scare tactics to turn everyone against immigrants, I’m talking about facts.

chyron8472 said:

That doesn’t make one specific occurrence of it special, or worthy of military action.

You are talking about Trump, who you claim isn’t rational.

And it doesn’t mean Trump still isn’t pulling the idea to do something about it out of his butt or on a whim from what someone said because they said it recently enough.

I never even said anything about why he would consider doing something about it. I just said that Trump don’t like caravan, so Trump may stop caravan with military. Which has nothing to do with how he got that idea.

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

Actually that’s just false. There are plenty of dangerous people who cross the border illegally, just like there are dangerous people in country legally. Dangerous people and non-dangerous people sneaking through are not mutually exclusive.

There are dangerous people. Period. Whether or not a few of them exist in a group that crosses the border has little point. We already have lots of dangerous people in this country who were born in this country. It’s paranoia to single out illegal immigrants as some sort of significant threat worthy of mobilizing armed forces. As though there isn’t something better the Guard could be doing.

You just admitted that what you said was false

I did? Which part of what I said?

You said that there are dangerous people, period

Yes. There are dangerous people everywhere. That doesn’t make the people crossing the border dangerous, much less more dangerous than people who are already here.

Citation also needed for it being false.

Your original statement was that no dangerous people enter this country illegally.

No. My original statement was that Trump was sending the Guard down to prevent a “caravan” from crossing the border. I hadn’t read the article, so I assumed he was pulling a ficticious particular caravan of illegal immigrants out of his rear end. That doesn’t mean I think no one illegal crosses the border. I know they do. But the fact that they do doesn’t mean they’re dangerous or that Trump isn’t still pulling the idea out of his rear end.

Dek Rollins said:

I’m not talking about scare tactics to turn everyone against immigrants, I’m talking about facts.

To say “dangerous people cross the border” does not convey the same information as saying something like “50,000 people cross the border and 12 of them are dangerous”.

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

Actually that’s just false. There are plenty of dangerous people who cross the border illegally, just like there are dangerous people in country legally. Dangerous people and non-dangerous people sneaking through are not mutually exclusive.

There are dangerous people. Period. Whether or not a few of them exist in a group that crosses the border has little point. We already have lots of dangerous people in this country who were born in this country. It’s paranoia to single out illegal immigrants as some sort of significant threat worthy of mobilizing armed forces. As though there isn’t something better the Guard could be doing.

You just admitted that what you said was false

I did? Which part of what I said?

You said that there are dangerous people, period

Yes. There are dangerous people everywhere. That’s make the people crossing the border dangerous, much less more dangerous than people who are already here.

Citation also needed for it being false.

Your original statement was that no dangerous people enter this country illegally.

No. My original statement was that Trump was sending the Guard down to prevent a “caravan” from crossing the border. I hadn’t read the article, so I assumed he was pulling a ficticious particular caravan of illegal immigrants out of his rear end. That doesn’t mean I think no one illegal crosses the border. I know they do. But the fact that they do doesn’t mean they’re dangerous or that Trump isn’t still pulling the idea out of his rear end.

Dek Rollins said:

I’m not talking about scare tactics to turn everyone against immigrants, I’m talking about facts.

To say “dangerous people cross the border” does not convey the same information as saying something like “50,000 people cross the border and 12 of them are dangerous”.

You missed my point. Yes your original statement was that there is no caravan. But that’s not what I was responding to. I was responding to your statemement that dangerous people do not cross the border illegally. This is false, regardless of how many dangerous people cross the border illegally.

Dek Rollins said:

TV’s Frink said:

Wouldn’t I believe what?

Did you read my post? I was saying that perhaps Trump is moving military forces to the border in order to stop the caravan, because he obviously doesn’t like it.

Unless you’re saying that the President is delusional and gets his fake news from Fox and Friends, I have no idea what you’re trying to say.

Dek Rollins said:

CatBus said:

As we enter our second decade of continuous zero-to-subzero net illegal immigration from Mexico, Trump is celebrating by sending the National Guard to the southern border.

Presumably while there, they can pick up some litter and rescue some cats from trees, as they contemplate their fate as a sentient but equally pointless wall.

Maybe they’re going to stop the massive caravan of people that are currently traveling through Mexico with the intention of entering the US.

Good point, just because existing border security stops the Spring caravan every year doesn’t mean we can’t stop it biglier this year. Or maybe maintaining net-zero illegal immigration for ten years has made our border security so sleepy that the National Guard can take over while they nap.

chyron8472 said:

There are dangerous people. Period. Whether or not a few of them exist in a group that crosses the border has little point. We already have lots of dangerous people in this country who were born in this country to people who were also born in this country. It’s paranoia to single out illegal immigrants as some sort of significant threat worthy of mobilizing armed forces. As though there isn’t something better the Guard could be doing.

This dismissal, while attractive, ignores more interesting crime-and-immigration-related data though. Percentage-wise, illegal immigrants (and immigrants in general) are less likely to commit crimes than their native-born counterparts. This makes sense because illegal immigrants go to great lengths to avoid contact with law enforcement (such as not reporting when they are victims of crime, which is why sanctuary city/state laws improve public safety). So, theoretically, more immigrants means less crime per capita. That’s overall crime rates, though – there might be per-crime exceptions. For example, I suspect hate crimes may go up in areas experiencing increased immigration rates, but again that says less about the immigrants than the native-born citizens.

‘Former Trump aide approved ‘black ops’ to help Ukraine president’…

Paul Manafort authorised secret media operation that sought to discredit key opponent of then Ukrainian president

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/05/ex-trump-aide-paul-manafort-approved-black-ops-to-help-ukraine-president

On the topic of illegal immigration, a couple of years ago someone came by my house and offered to repair warped slats in my fence. The price was super inexpensive compared to hiring Jenks Fence (who built it), so we agreed. Here’s the thing, though. I didn’t have cash on me, so I wrote a check to the company on his business card. The guy in charge then said he couldn’t take it but needed me to write the check out to “Cash” instead of to his company. I didn’t like doing that, but went ahead and did so.

…And later I went online to the BBB, FTC, and ICE websites and reported his company for employing undocumented workers (which it appeared that his employee probably was, especially given the behavior about the check). I don’t feel at all bad for doing so.