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oscars 2018 — Page 6

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Sexual relations between adults and children are illegal; it is not ‘just a number’. Spend enough time around abused children and the devestating ramifications of such ‘relationships’ and the reasons for such laws become painfully clear. 17 is still under age, it is still against the law regardless of how you feel about this particular issue. It is not ok simply because they are ‘in love’, it is an adult taking sexual advantage of an underaged minor.

If you like the movie for its art or its coming of age themes etc, go for it but that doesn’t change the legality of the relationship, which even if it was consensual, it still statutory rape.

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 (Edited)

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Whether this is “abuse” is debatable – there are those who think that any sex between an adult and a minor is abuse, whether consensual or not, and regardless of who was the pursuer. There are those who think it is a grey area (probably most think that, including me). And, there are those who think the law should be a lot more permissive.

However, I found the movie’s dealing with this issue to be manipulative (to the viewer). By making the characters seem SO different in age, and by making the parents SO approving and hands off - while being portrayed as highly educated and enlightened, it made me wonder exactly what the movie’s message was supposed to be. The guy was a guest in the parents’ home, and was pretty rude and aggressive. And he was doing their son. It is very, very strange that they didn’t even question whether it was “ok”, or whether their son was even ok with it. Is the message that this is how parents should be? Is that really good?

Other similarly-themed stories include the parents being livid - or at the very least worrying, regardless of whether or not the story sympathizes with the protagonists.

If he was 18 would we even be having this conversation? Genuinely curious.

As for the parents, we only see Elio’s perspective. Who knows what conversations they had about the relationship and whether they were 100% on board throughout.

one69chev said:

Sexual relations between adults and children are illegal; it is not ‘just a number’. Spend enough time around abused children and the devestating ramifications of such ‘relationships’ and the reasons for such laws become painfully clear. 17 is still under age, it is still against the law regardless of how you feel about this particular issue. It is not ok simply because they are ‘in love’, it is an adult taking sexual advantage of an underaged minor.

If you like the movie for its art or its coming of age themes etc, go for it but that doesn’t change the legality of the relationship, which even if it was consensual, it still statutory rape.

It literally isn’t illegal though.

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Is there something in the water today? Is it just because it’s Monday?

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yhwx said:

Is there something in the water today? Is it just because it’s Monday?

I don’t see much of anything to complain about? In fact, things have seemed fairly calm around here lately.

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dahmage said:

yhwx said:

Is there something in the water today? Is it just because it’s Monday?

I don’t see much of anything to complain about? In fact, things have seemed fairly calm around here lately.

You haven’t seen the invisible thread.

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yhwx said:

dahmage said:

yhwx said:

Is there something in the water today? Is it just because it’s Monday?

I don’t see much of anything to complain about? In fact, things have seemed fairly calm around here lately.

You haven’t seen the invisible thread.

It’s not so invisible these days… 😉


Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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oojason said:

yhwx said:

dahmage said:

yhwx said:

Is there something in the water today? Is it just because it’s Monday?

I don’t see much of anything to complain about? In fact, things have seemed fairly calm around here lately.

You haven’t seen the invisible thread.

It’s not so invisible these days… 😉

Ha, everything just keeps getting more interesting…

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

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I’m 17. I used to date a 18 year old. Is she abusing/raping me?

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DominicCobb said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Whether this is “abuse” is debatable – there are those who think that any sex between an adult and a minor is abuse, whether consensual or not, and regardless of who was the pursuer. There are those who think it is a grey area (probably most think that, including me). And, there are those who think the law should be a lot more permissive.

However, I found the movie’s dealing with this issue to be manipulative (to the viewer). By making the characters seem SO different in age, and by making the parents SO approving and hands off - while being portrayed as highly educated and enlightened, it made me wonder exactly what the movie’s message was supposed to be. The guy was a guest in the parents’ home, and was pretty rude and aggressive. And he was doing their son. It is very, very strange that they didn’t even question whether it was “ok”, or whether their son was even ok with it. Is the message that this is how parents should be? Is that really good?

Other similarly-themed stories include the parents being livid - or at the very least worrying, regardless of whether or not the story sympathizes with the protagonists.

If he was 18 would we even be having this conversation? Genuinely curious.

That is so easy to say. So, we move the age back to 17… then a case comes up with a 16-year-old and we say “if it were a 17-year-old would we be having this conversation” etc. So, are you saying there shouldn’t be a line drawn anywhere?

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

DominicCobb said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Whether this is “abuse” is debatable – there are those who think that any sex between an adult and a minor is abuse, whether consensual or not, and regardless of who was the pursuer. There are those who think it is a grey area (probably most think that, including me). And, there are those who think the law should be a lot more permissive.

However, I found the movie’s dealing with this issue to be manipulative (to the viewer). By making the characters seem SO different in age, and by making the parents SO approving and hands off - while being portrayed as highly educated and enlightened, it made me wonder exactly what the movie’s message was supposed to be. The guy was a guest in the parents’ home, and was pretty rude and aggressive. And he was doing their son. It is very, very strange that they didn’t even question whether it was “ok”, or whether their son was even ok with it. Is the message that this is how parents should be? Is that really good?

Other similarly-themed stories include the parents being livid - or at the very least worrying, regardless of whether or not the story sympathizes with the protagonists.

If he was 18 would we even be having this conversation? Genuinely curious.

That is so easy to say. So, we move the age back to 17… then a case comes up with a 16-year-old and we say “if it were a 17-year-old would we be having this conversation” etc. So, are you saying there shouldn’t be a line drawn anywhere?

I’m not saying that I think we should change the age of consent (though I should point out again that in most places it is younger than 18, which isn’t to say I agree with that). I’m not really talking about our current society at all. I’m just talking about the movie and how that isn’t really the point at all.

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DominicCobb said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

DominicCobb said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Whether this is “abuse” is debatable – there are those who think that any sex between an adult and a minor is abuse, whether consensual or not, and regardless of who was the pursuer. There are those who think it is a grey area (probably most think that, including me). And, there are those who think the law should be a lot more permissive.

However, I found the movie’s dealing with this issue to be manipulative (to the viewer). By making the characters seem SO different in age, and by making the parents SO approving and hands off - while being portrayed as highly educated and enlightened, it made me wonder exactly what the movie’s message was supposed to be. The guy was a guest in the parents’ home, and was pretty rude and aggressive. And he was doing their son. It is very, very strange that they didn’t even question whether it was “ok”, or whether their son was even ok with it. Is the message that this is how parents should be? Is that really good?

Other similarly-themed stories include the parents being livid - or at the very least worrying, regardless of whether or not the story sympathizes with the protagonists.

If he was 18 would we even be having this conversation? Genuinely curious.

That is so easy to say. So, we move the age back to 17… then a case comes up with a 16-year-old and we say “if it were a 17-year-old would we be having this conversation” etc. So, are you saying there shouldn’t be a line drawn anywhere?

I’m not saying that I think we should change the age of consent (though I should point out again that in most places it is younger than 18, which isn’t to say I agree with that). I’m not really talking about our current society at all. I’m just talking about the movie and how that isn’t really the point at all.

You didn’t find the parents’ behavior at all unusual?

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

DominicCobb said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

DominicCobb said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Whether this is “abuse” is debatable – there are those who think that any sex between an adult and a minor is abuse, whether consensual or not, and regardless of who was the pursuer. There are those who think it is a grey area (probably most think that, including me). And, there are those who think the law should be a lot more permissive.

However, I found the movie’s dealing with this issue to be manipulative (to the viewer). By making the characters seem SO different in age, and by making the parents SO approving and hands off - while being portrayed as highly educated and enlightened, it made me wonder exactly what the movie’s message was supposed to be. The guy was a guest in the parents’ home, and was pretty rude and aggressive. And he was doing their son. It is very, very strange that they didn’t even question whether it was “ok”, or whether their son was even ok with it. Is the message that this is how parents should be? Is that really good?

Other similarly-themed stories include the parents being livid - or at the very least worrying, regardless of whether or not the story sympathizes with the protagonists.

If he was 18 would we even be having this conversation? Genuinely curious.

That is so easy to say. So, we move the age back to 17… then a case comes up with a 16-year-old and we say “if it were a 17-year-old would we be having this conversation” etc. So, are you saying there shouldn’t be a line drawn anywhere?

I’m not saying that I think we should change the age of consent (though I should point out again that in most places it is younger than 18, which isn’t to say I agree with that). I’m not really talking about our current society at all. I’m just talking about the movie and how that isn’t really the point at all.

You didn’t find the parents’ behavior at all unusual?

Depends on your definition of unusual.

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one69chev said:

Sexual relations between adults and children are illegal; it is not ‘just a number’.

If the ages are 17 and 24 then at worst there could be an imbalance of power and maturity that could make the relationship problematic and potentially abusive, but it is definitely not pedophilia.

The Person in Question

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 (Edited)

suspiciouscoffee said:

Boy, I sure love how the oscars are in some way important and how people should definitely care about whether the progression of conversation in this thread is on topic!

FTFM

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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 (Edited)

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Whether this is “abuse” is debatable – there are those who think that any sex between an adult and a minor is abuse, whether consensual or not, and regardless of who was the pursuer. There are those who think it is a grey area (probably most think that, including me). And, there are those who think the law should be a lot more permissive.

However, I found the movie’s dealing with this issue to be manipulative (to the viewer). By making the characters seem SO different in age, and by making the parents SO approving and hands off - while being portrayed as highly educated and enlightened, it made me wonder exactly what the movie’s message was supposed to be. The guy was a guest in the parents’ home, and was pretty rude and aggressive. And he was doing their son. It is very, very strange that they didn’t even question whether it was “ok”, or whether their son was even ok with it. Is the message that this is how parents should be? Is that really good?

Other similarly-themed stories include the parents being livid - or at the very least worrying, regardless of whether or not the story sympathizes with the protagonists.

Concern about the messaging of the movie sounds reasonable.

I think we all have a sense that it could be more inappropriate if the ages were farther apart, and especially if the protagonist were younger. Kevin Spacey was accused of abuse of a 14 year old when he was 24. I saw him routinely called a pedophile. His “I’m a gay American” statement outraged many people, not only for trying to deflect from what he did, but for playing into a stereotype of gay men being especially interested in minors.

Even if the relationship in the movie were portrayed in such a way that there was not a scintilla of taking advantage, the concern about parental approval/encouragement seems valid. It would be weird to see a father delighted about a 24 year old man being involved with his 17 year old daughter.

This debate touches on something bigger, I think. And that’s to what extent a movie is serving as some sort of propaganda (for lack of a better word) or merely telling a story where we can judge the characters and actions but still enjoy the movie for what it is. It’s difficult because movies push a certain point of view. If you think a behavior (such as approving parent, or adults involved with minors) is entirely wrong but in the context of the movie you’re supposed to find it wonderful, how do you not have a problem with the film itself?

I have no views on this movie except I haven’t seen it and probably won’t.

The blue elephant in the room.

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Anyway, I talked to some very reasonable and progressive people and everyone thinks a 24 year old dating a 17 year old is very weird.

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TV’s Frink said:

All I know is that Shape of Water looks weird as fuck just based on the clip or two I saw in the brief moments I looked up during the Oscars. The fish man looked ridiculous, not something that should inhabit a serious film.

Agree that costume is very underwhelming. I was eager to watch this movie. Then I read it didn’t feel very original and was preachy. I find that if I just wait, I lose interest to see most movies in the theater.

The blue elephant in the room.