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The music of the Original Trilogy vs the music of the Prequel Trilogy — Page 2

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The OT music will always be a classic, but I feel it is aging somewhat, especially ANH.  I can hardly listen to most of ANH anymore except for the main theme, the Death Star battle, and Leia's theme. 

Personally, I disagree with this sentiment completely. Star Wars is my favorite soundtrack of the six. I feel that it works flawlessly on two levels: both as music in itself, and insofar as it develops and exegetes the emotional mood of the film. As much as I enjoy the prequel soundtracks, I'd rather listen to the Star Wars score any day.

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I knew that would get a rise out of you.  It is merely my preference.  Undoubtedly, it has something to do with having listened to it so many times.  To make an even more dreadful confession, I didn't even like ANH when I first saw it.  Only ESB drew my interest into the larger story.

"Perhaps because ANH was written to sound like Classical Music?"

Obviously it draws heavily from classical music, which is why I like it.  However, it has influences that were modern at the time, which haven't aged so well.

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timdiggerm said:

Yeah, he might be thinking of when they used the Trade Federation theme to introduce the clone troopers in AOTC. Terrible decision, I thought.

that was the 'escape from naboo' music that was used in AOTC.  no, im referring to the temple raid in ROTS;  trade federation march was not correct term.  its the same music that plays on the DVD menu with the arena - thats the next best description i can give it. I think it was also used to start the battle of kashyyk.

and it sucked!  people complain that yoda's theme and the corsucant night-chase was shoved into the droid factory sequence in AOTC, but this was even worse. 

 

 

click here if lack of OOT got you down

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walking_carpet said:

timdiggerm said:

Yeah, he might be thinking of when they used the Trade Federation theme to introduce the clone troopers in AOTC. Terrible decision, I thought.

im referring to the temple raid in ROTS; its the same music that was meant for the arena scene.

people complain that yoda's theme and the corsucant night-chase was shoved into the droid factory sequence in AOTC, but this was even worse. 

have you heard the original music for that scene? (The Droid Factory)

John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/

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fishmanlee said:

walking_carpet said:

timdiggerm said:

Yeah, he might be thinking of when they used the Trade Federation theme to introduce the clone troopers in AOTC. Terrible decision, I thought.

im referring to the temple raid in ROTS; its the same music that was meant for the arena scene.

people complain that yoda's theme and the corsucant night-chase was shoved into the droid factory sequence in AOTC, but this was even worse. 

have you heard the original music for that scene? (The Droid Factory)

 no.  you have link?

click here if lack of OOT got you down

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There was a youtube video that had the original edit of the droid factory scene (no threepio losing his head, original music etc.) but the guy lost his account, and now the video is lost,  I'll try to figure out how its supposed to play out, and then I will post a video of it.

John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/

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timdiggerm said:

I'd really like to see the original cut of AOTC, in which Williams' score for the ending wasn't butchered.

This is one of my main gripes about the prequels. I enjoy them but feel that the sound/music editors too often tracked in old music unnecessarily. I can't help but attribute some of those stupid ass decisions to Ben Burtt.

All I really want is each film as it was originally seen and heard in theaters; no fixes, corrections, "improvements" or modifications necessary.

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I think that the OT had way more memorable, signature melodies than the PT (without a doubt), but I still think the PT had awesome music.

As far as memorable melodies, the OT has:

1. Main Title

2. Binary Sunset

3. Throne Room

4. Imperial March

5. Asteroid Chase

6. Yoda's Theme

7. Lando's Palace

8. Luke and Leia

9. Parade of the Ewoks

 

The PT has:

1. Duel of the Fates

2. Across the Stars

3. Battle of the Heroes

4. Anakin's Betrayal


I still love the PT soundtrack - there are lots of small bits here and there (like the great music in the second half of Anakin's Dark Deeds on the ROTS track) - but as far as really powerful, memorable melodies, I don't think it even remotely compares to the OT.

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The only thing that I actually LIKED about the prequels was the score, although I would say the the OT has a little more "feel" to it in terms of music like in the binary sunset scene.

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I do like the music of the PT a lot, even if it never feels as groundbreaking as that of the OT.

Apart from the cues mentioned by DavidBrennan, I do think "Padme's Ruminations" and the Order 66 lament (I'm not sure what track on the released CD this belongs to - is it "Anakin's Betrayal"?) rank as some of the best pieces of the whole saga.

In fact, the Order 66-scene is the only scene from the PT that actually moves me, to the point where I might even shed a tear or two. Even if George's direction and editing during that scene are uncharacteristically brilliant, I've narrowed the reason for this down to the score. It's an incredibly emotional piece of music, and that's what John Williams does at his very best. Makes me sad over the deaths of the most two-dimensional of characters. If only there had been more pieces like that in the PT.

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Yeah, the Order 66 scene is set up to 'Anakin's Betrayal'.  (Track #4, one of my most played tracks ever.)

Great stuff.  The ROTS score is great throughout, I agree.  But much of it is either recycling music from the previous movies (it uses virtually every core melody from the entire saga) or is just kind of atonal, atmospheric stuff - like Padme's Ruminations.  Because I think that stuff is probably a lot easier to create (and doesn't move me as much emotionally) I don't lend that as much weight.

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FrederikOlsen said:


In fact, the Order 66-scene is the only scene from the PT that actually moves me, to the point where I might even shed a tear or two. Even if George's direction and editing during that scene are uncharacteristically brilliant, I've narrowed the reason for this down to the score. It's an incredibly emotional piece of music, and that's what John Williams does at his very best. Makes me sad over the deaths of the most two-dimensional of characters.


If only I could feeling the same. The CG clone troopers make that impossible, though.

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A lot has been said here already but just to pile on - I love John Williams' scores for Star Wars, probably more than I love the films themselves. The scores to 'Star Wars' and especially 'Empire' are my favorites of all time, and that's including Howard Shore's scores to LOTR, which is saying a lot. And while I don't think Williams ever matches his late 70s/early 80s efforts, he's had a few gems since in Hook, Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, and Harry Potter. (Catch Me If You Can was fun, of course, but limited by the type of movie that was.)

As for the prequels...while each film introduced a great new theme or two (TPM: Anakin's, Trade Federation, Naboo, and of course Duel of the Fates; AOTC: Across the Stars, ROTS: Battle of the Heroes) and usually had a few unique, memorable cues (TPM takes the cake here) the scores as coherent entities overall suffered by poor storytelling and lackluster characters on Lucas' part. Last minute re-edits probably didn't help either - just look at how great the reconstructed TPM score is! (It's the only one that begins to approach the classic scores of yore.) Then of course, there's the fact that Lucas redid the turn of Vader in pickups - considering that such a huge story decision was done so late in the process, it's pretty amazing that the music for that scene worked just fine. (Or not. I haven't seen Episode III in a while and don't even remember if the music in that scene was relevant or simply subdued. That would never happen for the originals!) Anyway, all things considered, Williams did a pretty good job, even if there weren't many memorable cues and none of the prequels had a proper, original end credits suite. 

Probably the most annoying single thing, besides the chore that is listening to the AOTC score, and the post-facto butchering of TPM, is the shoehorning in of the 'Through The Window' cue from 'Empire' into the Yoda vs Palpatine fight. It makes absolutely no sense from either a story perspective, a musical perspective, or a film perspective. By which I mean: the two fights do not parallel each other in the slightest, neither emotionally nor from a plot perspective, the presence of the music here is jarring and out of place considering what we're hearing for the rest of the film, and the matching up of the cues/beats with the characters actions in the film, which were just spot on in Empire, is nonexistent in the ROTS scene. Annoys me to no end...and you KNOW this was a conscious decision by Lucas too; it's inconceivable that Williams would be responsible for something like this. (On the other hand, it's kind of cool to hear a second 'official' rendition of that iconic cue. Still, not worth it IMHO.)

“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

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^bilditup1

George looks like a real miser in your avatar.

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”

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I don't have the ear (or necessarily the interest) to scrutinize the scores as much as bilditup1, but looking at things in their totality, I can't imagine many people seriously thinking the PT scores were bad.  I mean, how many movies nowadays have truly powerful, memorable core melodies?  Not very many at all.  The atonal/atmospheric/throbbing beats, exemplified by Transformers and The Dark Knight, are what modern scores strive for.  Those that might try for memorable melodies usually fail.

The PT had, in my opinion, at least four great melodies.  That alone makes it a solid collection. 

A little off-topic....what about non-movie SW scores?  I like the Shadows of the Empire score a good deal.  It sure feels very Star Wars-y to me.  I'm sure that there've been scores for video games and such that were popular.  Any thoughts on those?

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DavidBrennan said:

...I can't imagine many people seriously thinking the PT scores were bad.  I mean, how many movies nowadays have truly powerful, memorable core melodies?  Not very many at all...

The OT had an unusually good score, the PT may very well have a better-than-average score but it's not like that's a very high hurdle.  Better than average can still be bad (even very bad) in my book, because average is godawful.  I would describe the PT score as dull and uninteresting, "bad" isn't quite the right word.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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If you think it was dull and uninteresting, than I guess that's just a matter of personal taste, and on my metaphorical tastebuds, the meals were delicious.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think the OT was better overall, as noted in my previous post where I tallied off the memorable OT vs PT tracks.  But I still think the PT was great.  The .FLAC albums of both TPM (thanks, Torrent!) and ROTS are probably some of my post played playlists on my VLC media player - though, yeah, the Anthology box set for the OT definitely gets played more for me.

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georgec said:

^bilditup1

George looks like a real miser in your avatar.

LOL, it's about time to retire it. It's from a guest appearance on The Colbert Report from 2005 or 2006 in response to something Colbert said. Was pretty hilarious at the time, but right now George is just creepy.

I agree that in today's scores, walls of sound without a coherent theme or melody have become the norm, and by that score the prequel scores are better.  But just like the films they're based on, I think it's also OK to lament what they could have been, as well as some of the poorer decisions/deficiencies compared to the earlier scores. Maybe that's not totally fair, because I regard the Empire score to be the greatest, ever, but this thread invited the comparison. Besides, this is the Internet! Fair, shmair

By the way, in case it wasn't obvious, the cue I'm referring to from Empire is from the scene where Vader is force-chucking things at Luke and he goes, er, through the window

I would describe the PT score as dull and uninteresting, "bad" isn't quite the right word.

 

 I think that about sums it up. There are a few memorable cues, but they are sparsely populated among a mostly 'meh' ocean. In Empire, except for maybe the first few tracks, it ain't like that. But again, not the fairest of comparisons

“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

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I bought Shadows of the Empire a while ago, but only listened to it once. Don't remember it well, but have heard good things. I think once I reread that book (which I haven't done in ages) I'll return to the score. Other than that, I haven't played Star Wars games, and am unfamiliar with their scores.

“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

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‘From E.T. to Star Wars and Beyond, John Williams Celebrated at Hollywood Bowl’…

https://variety.com/2018/music/news/john-williams-40th-anniversary-hollywood-bowl-concert-1202925432/
 

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… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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Here’s a hot take (and only my opinion): the soundtrack is only as memorable/effective as the movie it is a part of. The OT’s soundtracks are leagues better than the prequels partly because of the associations I have to the movie. Listening to ‘Luke and Leia’ reminds me of those characters that I love, while listening to ‘Across the Stars’ makes me feel almost nothing.

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snooker said:

The OT’s soundtracks are leagues better than the prequels partly because of the associations I have to the movie. Listening to ‘Luke and Leia’ reminds me of those characters that I love, while listening to ‘Across the Stars’ makes me feel almost nothing.

So it does remind you of the movie.

😉

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