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Hypocrisy of us at OT fans wanting preservations - but also editing the PT

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Is there anything hypocritical about those of us on this site? We denounce Lucas for making changes to the OT, but (most of us) champion people like MagnoliaFan who make changes we see as beneficial to the PT.

There are a couple of possible distinctions.

  1. the OT is on most “best films of all time” lists. To change that is foolish because it is a part of history and it is quality. The PT is not nearly as popular so there is nothing “hallowed” about the movies.
  2. The original PT is available so with the changes everyone is free to choose; we’re just championing the principle of availability of everything. When we get to what we like and don’t like, it’s no longer principle, so it’s just opinion that leads us to praise or denounce those things.

Or are we just saying “it’s cool if we like it, but if we don’t then it should be changed.”

?

If you're going to take forever, then I'm having a hotdog!
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I can understand how some people might, on first inspection, look at us as hypocrites. However, when you think about the fact that all we want is something that is already in existence and is being denied to us, then I think it is easy to renounce the "hypocrite" claim.

In all honesty, I think Lucas could join the hypocrite list. Just look at the quote on the homepage of this site regarding his views on preserving the Three Stooges films. Funny, eh?
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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I originally thought this was a site about the Original Trilogy - ie a site for fans who preferred watching the OT rather than the Prequel Trilogy (I must pay more attention...)

Therefore, for me, any improvement on the Prequel Trilogy (which the MagnoliaFan Edits were IMHO) are to be applauded.

IIRC a poster here just mentioned watching the MagFan Edits in a thread and it perked some people's curiosity - word of mouth spread, more people got hold of the Edits, more people began coming here in search of info on the Edits and eventually Magnolia himself started posting here.

Even people who don't like the idea of the Edits have watched them - just to see more 'Star Wars' - from a different point of view...


I suppose it's just a question of preference in the end - though with the PT we have the choice of either GL's or Magbnolia's version, with the OT that is not the case.

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
‘How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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Yeah, everyone loves that one

But the idea a lot of people have that it's wrong to change the OT. Then we don't mind changes to the PT. Is there an objective distinction, or is it just because we like one and not the other?

If you don't think it's wrong or stupid to mess with the OT, you just want all copies available, then there's no opening hypocrisy. But many people think it's stupid to mess with them. So what's the distinction?

If it's just because we like one and not the other, then I for one need to shut up about some things

And I'm not attacking the site or anything. You all know I live here during the week. I'm just posing a question for us and myself to mull over. Not about our goals or community, but about how to approach certain things.
If you're going to take forever, then I'm having a hotdog!
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I hope I'm not hypocritical. I like most of the changes in the SE, including *gasp* the revamped Jabba in ANH. Some parts of it I hate, like Greedo shooting first and Hayden in ANH, simply because they totally obliterate the redemption of two major characters.

That said, I champion the release of the unmolested trilogy in addition to the special editions. Spielberg was wise when he released the original E.T. along with the special edition. He understood its historical significance. Lucas is a revisionist, and hopefully his kids will revolt against him when they inherit the empire. We may have to wait just that long, folks.

I have purchased all five films on DVD legitimately (not to mention countless VHS editions, including Ep I).

I also have seen MF's re-edits and love them. I will likely watch them before watching the official versions, but I have purchased the official versions because otherwise, it would just be wrong to only have a reedited bootleg. Plain and simple.

Soapbox:
In both the cases of the classic trilogy and MF's edits of the prequel trilogy, I am not alone in having certain issues with them. However, I have chosen to do something about those issues, and have been a vocal advocate of action. Bitching for the sake of bitching accomplishes positively nothing, other than sewing the seeds of discord among people who should be united by our love of Star Wars, not divided because of it. Free speech wasn't intended for catharsis of the soul, it was intended to incite action to a cause.

Therefore, in the case of the classic trilogy, I have written letters, and in the case of the actual defects on the disc, provided a guide for other users on this forum to do the same. In the case of MF's BOTF, I didn't like the way some of the subtitles read, just like scores of others. But rather than bitch about them even once, I gave myself a crash course in stream demuxing/remuxing and in subtitle generation. In 72 hours I addressed the same issues that scores of people fussed about, and circulated a dozen copies into existence. Not to revise MF's brilliant work, I was emphatic about preserving his original subtitles on the disc as well. After all, HE did all the work on that re-edit. What I did wasn't rocket science.

I can't stress enough for all of you to write letters to official sources to address your concerns. When the guy from Fox said I'm the only one he's received a letter from, he's either lying, or the rest of you guys aren't pulling your weight for the common cause. It's probably a little of both, but ask yourself, have you done your part?
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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I think the distinction is personal. There is no way to get everyone on this site on board with one view as opposed to the other. Personally, I feel he has the right to tinker, but he should make all versions available. Some people feel he shouldn't be allowed to tinker at all. But that's not me.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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kapgar.com
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The thing is, the altered PT is not an official release. You can go on and buy the "original" prequel trilogy whenever you want. But you can't do the same with the O-OT. A thought: if GL had released the O-OT and never made the SEs... would there be MagnoliaFan editions of the OT?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I somehow doubt it. Or, it would be more likely that he would just be releasing them to close friends and family as opposed to making it available to the masses. If he made them available to all, then it definitely becomes a case of bootlegging and LFL has a strong leg to stand on in court. Right now, it's not bootlegging because Lucas has denied the existence of these films publicly. Can't bootleg that which doesn't exist.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Originally posted by: Bossk
Right now, it's not bootlegging because Lucas has denied the existence of these films publicly. Can't bootleg that which doesn't exist.


Not that I want anybody to end up in court, but I would LOVE to hear this defense argued. Granted, Lucas' lawyer army would probably shoot it down, but it's a great argument. Use Lucas' own words against him. He'd be forced to acknowledge the existence of the works that everybody knows is out there, because millions upon millions of copies have been sold by him officially.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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But they don't exist on DVD. And despite their existence in VHS, he now claims that they don't exist. He's made "bootlegging" available to all and, to be honest, I almost think this is how he wants it. I'm waiting for LFL to announce that they have found the "one copy" that they approve of and start mass marketing it thus saving them time and effort. It would be an interesting and novel approach. At least you could almost guarantee that it would be what the fans want.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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"Is there anything hypocritical about those of us on this site? We denounce Lucas for making changes to the OT, but (most of us) champion people like MagnoliaFan who make changes we see as beneficial to the PT."

Hardly...despite Magnoliafan's changes, the original version still exists. We have a choice.

When Lucas made his changes, he refused to make the original version available in as pristine condition as the SE's or DVDs.

"The thing is, the altered PT is not an official release. You can go on and buy the "original" prequel trilogy whenever you want. But you can't do the same with the O-OT. A thought: if GL had released the O-OT and never made the SEs... would there be MagnoliaFan editions of the OT?"

I see someone beat me to it.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Fundamentally:

OT = good.
PT = crap.
GL edits OT to try and make them as crap as the PT = bad.
MF edits PT to try and make them as good as the OT = good.

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Originally posted by: Moth3r
Fundamentally:

OT = good.
PT = crap.
GL edits OT to try and make them as crap as the PT = bad.
MF edits PT to try and make them as good as the OT = good.


That was perfect.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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LOL! Hear, hear!

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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If only in my loquacious verbosity I could be as succinct.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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But it works so perfectly with your avatar. Don't ever change, ADM.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Originally posted by: Bossk
But it works so perfectly with your avatar. Don't ever change, ADM.


Heh ... and here I am trying to work with Jay to change my Avatar. But then again, the change won't be as drastic as one might think.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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ADigitalMan, check if the avatar isn't on the list of avatars yet. Usually Jay simply inserts them on the list, instead of changing someone's avatar "by hand".
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Not there yet, but thanks for the tip. I wasn't checking before now.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.