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George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist... — Page 6

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There should be a giant caveat to this topic … that being … a certain point of view. Dutifully set up and reflected on by the OP, it suggests that George Lucas has a certain point of view, but not a legitimate one.

Is George Lucas in a stage of dementia? Is he a cynical liar? Or are we missing something? Most of us (including me) saw this topic and stopped here to have our prejudices reinforced by a title that said it all: George Lucas: Unreliable Narrator & Time Traveling Revisionist. That’s what I thought … until I thought of something I hadn’t before … a certain point of view.

That certain point of view is the George Lucas point of view, which isn’t mentioned in that treatise. Sure, he’s quoted, but not his point of view. It’s like OriginalTrilogy proudly bannering their 54,800+ members with 22,100+ topics, but not mentioning the 7,200+ bans, a telling statistic of … a certain point of view.

If you were to read the Lucas quotes in the context of the time made, you would realize the certain point of view of George Lucas has been consistent throughout his career. He was writing Star Wars before filming, and was writing Star Wars during filming, and was writing Star Wars after filming, and was writing Star Wars during the successive movies, and was writing Star Wars for the re-releases. They were all drafts in his certain point of view. Each idea, each draft, each rewrite he makes is his same point of view in action. The fact is, he has never “finished” writing Star Wars.

How can this be? George Lucas is not “a writer”, he has no sense of writing. He once admitted in a filmed interview, on the old Star Wars website of decades ago, “I bleed all over the page” when writing the script. He further opined that he felt Star Wars “wasn’t his film” because of all the others’ ideas and skills and talent that went into the movie it was becoming.

Likewise, George Lucas is not “a filmmaker”, he has no sense of film. His editing of Star Wars was so bad, it nearly sunk the film in production. He had to hand it over to his then-wife Marcia (a professional film editor) to re-cut the film into the blockbuster we saw in the theaters. That is why he is always wanting to take a back-seat on the “big films” and is always opining to “go back” to his “small films”. (His small films were the very, very short “tone poems” he made in his “University Of Southern California” film-school days.) His behavior even puzzled legendary producer/director Stanley Kubrick, who once wondered aloud why the director of American Graffiti would want to “run a business” instead of make films. A very telling observation, that.

It seems George Lucas is mostly good at surrounding himself with others who can re-mold his fuzzy-inspirations and transform his inept-everything-else into complete movies. That doesn’t take anything away from him. Without him being the magnet to attract and ignite others’ talent, there wouldn’t have been a THX 1138, an American Graffiti, or a Star Wars.

So no fan-boyz pile-on (a soft & loving pile-on, to be sure) and hope that we finally realize that George Lucas will never finish Star Wars, because he never had a Star Wars film, in him, to begin with. Rather, he had films that he loved growing up and put bits of them together over, and over, and over again, to make a monied success of his own.

Take a look at the world through the eyes of George Lucas:
SLATE.com: Star Wars Is a Postmodern Masterpiece: How George Lucas spliced together Westerns, jidaigeki, space adventure serials, fairy tales, dogfighting movies, and Casablanca to create Hollywood’s first world-conquering collage. By Forrest Wickman

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Jesus christ I think that is the worst anti-Lucas post I’ve ever seem in my life. You clearly know jack and shit about the man and just eat up all of the Lucas hater shit you see. Especially the whole “rough cut of the film was garbage and the editors having to fix it” bullshit despite that being so much of a lie a guy made a 2 hour video debunking it.

But go ahead and whine because Lucas made a few creative changes you didn’t like to a franchise HE created.

My Star Wars Fan-Edits
Proud creator of Dinosauria: Ascension, Domination, Downfall

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G&G-Fan said:

Jesus christ I think that is the worst anti-Lucas post I’ve ever seem in my life. You clearly know jack and shit about the man and just eat up all of the Lucas hater shit you see. Especially the whole “rough cut of the film was garbage and the editors having to fix it” bullshit despite that being so much of a lie a guy made a 2 hour video debunking it.

But go ahead and whine because Lucas made a few creative changes you didn’t like to a franchise HE created.

If you want to bring up and go on yet again about that vitriolic 2-hour video by Nerdonymous (along with your incorrect & hyperbolic claims about the RocketJump video) then do it elsewhere - this previous thread created by you on the subject would be a far more apt place to do so - and NOT here in the ‘GL: Unreliable Narrator’ thread.

As for the RocketJump video being ‘Lucas hater shit’ - I suggest you re-read your linked thread above - and then give the RJ video a re-watch with an open mind.

If you disagree with something, or want to engage in discourse with someone, then it is a good idea to lose the aggression and tone. This isn’t reddit or some Fandom Menace style youtube outlet. You’re better than this.
 

G&G-Fan said:

But go ahead and whine because Lucas made a few creative changes you didn’t like to a franchise HE created.

Edit: Seems like you are projecting or ranting here - as Wocke didn’t refer to any changes that has Lucas made to his film (and also various alterations to Kerhner’s Empire and Marquand’s ROTJ films over the years) in his post.

Again, if you disagree with something, or want to engage in discourse with someone, then it is a good idea to lose the aggression and tone. This isn’t reddit or some Fandom Menace style youtube outlet.

Any questions or issues send me a PM. 👍
 

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G&G-Fan said:

… I think that is the worst anti-Lucas post I’ve ever seem in my life. You clearly know jack and shit about the man and just eat up all of the Lucas hater shit you see.

Actually, I thought it was a pretty good pro-Lucas post. Sorry you missed that part of it.

Especially the whole “rough cut of the film was garbage and the editors having to fix it” …

Didn’t you know the Lucas’s were a team working on Star Wars? Real documented fact.

… despite that being so much of a lie a guy made a 2 hour video debunking it. …

Interesting. Please post the link here. It’s the perfect topic to have such documentation for examination.

But go ahead and whine because Lucas made a few creative changes you didn’t like to a franchise HE created.

Oh, and I never said I didn’t like the released film. tips-wine-glass

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wocke said:

Interesting. Please post the link here. It’s the perfect topic to have such documentation for examination.

It’s… really not worth watching. He put it on OT.com back in, like, March, and the thread’s still up if you wanna see us talking about how awful of a video it is. He keeps posting it everywhere though and keeps getting a similar response, IDK why he’s so attached to it.

I would recommend though that OOJason remove the RocketJump video from this post. Despite the Nerdonymous video “debunking” it being pretty bad, the RocketJump video has some critical errors. Plus, RocketJump’s video really does not argue that Lucas deserves less credit for making the OT, and this post including this video to try to argue that point drags the post down. One bad point is enough to ruin a whole argument.

Also worth mentioning that trying to lessen the credit for George Lucas in the creation of the OT is just not really accurate. The editors deserve a lot of credit and the auteur theory conception of Lucas as the sole visionary behind Star Wars is wrong (as it always seems to be with creatives who try to lessen the contribution of their collaborators). But Lucas still was the director, he still wrote the story, and he was still the leader of the group that made the OT, and he still deserves to be credited as the creator of Star Wars.

If this post is meant to set the record straight, point #3 should be removed. It gives the wrong impression and goes too far in the other direction.

Edit:

Similarly with number 39, it should probably also be removed, or at least very modified. I get the point that’s trying to be made: Lucas isn’t the only one who can claim authorship over ESB and RotJ, and so the “They’re his films” approach to the SEs doesn’t apply here. But it’s something that’s wishy-woshy and close enough to the realm of opinion that I don’t think it should be included. On top of the title being “Who made the Original Trilogy films…?”, that’s way too close to discrediting Lucas for me to be comfortable with.

Maybe it should be refocused to something about how Lucas once said he considered ESB and RotJ to be Kershner and Marquand’s movies, not his movies, but now he’s gone back on that.

wocke said:

He further opined that he felt Star Wars “wasn’t his film” because of all the others’ ideas and skills and talent that went into the movie it was becoming.

Also, I’d really like to see this quote if you know where it came from.

Death of the Author

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^ Thanks for the feedback and suggestions.
 

Nah, the RocketJump video can stay where it is.

It is highlighted in Category #3 that there are a few factual errors made within the video (as do many of the official content / releases talking about Star Wars; let alone unofficial / unauthorised projects or fan-made content) - yet it is still a good example of the power, effect & influence that editing can have upon a film - and certainly did have for this one film in particular.

If I find another similarly effective video on the editing of Star Wars (without some of the errors that appears in the RJ video) I’ll include it in the Category.

Or if anyone already knows of such a video give me a heads-up, I’ll give it a watch, and then add it up in there. 👍

 

Re Category 39…

I’ve tidied up some of the wording for the ‘Who Made The Films?’ section. Hopefully it now reads more as not only George altering other directors’ films (something which George himself states only the director of the film should do) - but also that both Kershner and Marquand’s original release of their respective vision, their work, their films… are no longer available… and have not been for some time.

*: on a modern digital high quality format.

 

Edit: I’ll also try and find some time to start work on Category (#24, #25 & #26 are now complete).

As ever, any ideas, info or help for any of the Categories (or suggestions for more topics to cover) are always appreciated…
 

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I love this library thread, it is rare to find information like this in one collection, without it becoming toxic, an argument or a personal attack on Lucas!

But I did notice that there are 2 very similar subject categories in here about the 1997 se:

  1. ‘George’s Vision’ - The Final Cut / 1997 Special Edition - was never released on DVD or blu ray (or other digital format)…

  2. Why no 1997 Special Edition release on a modern digital format?

I thought I would mention this just in case it has been overlooked. It it not meant to be criticism.

Are there more new categories coming soon?

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Riquendes said:

I love this library thread, it is rare to find information like this in one collection, without it becoming toxic, an argument or a personal attack on Lucas!

But I did notice that there are 2 very similar subject categories in here about the 1997 se:

  1. ‘George’s Vision’ - The Final Cut / 1997 Special Edition - was never released on DVD or blu ray (or other digital format)…

  2. Why no 1997 Special Edition release on a modern digital format?

I thought I would mention this just in case it has been overlooked. It it not meant to be criticism.

Are there more new categories coming soon?

Thank you for the kind words, mate.
 

Re the two categories you mentioned… yes, they are indeed quite similar. 👍

However…

#18 is really just highlighting that 1997 Special Edition never saw a home media release on a digital format (which is a little strange given George and Lucasfilm’s hype, media campaign and the supposed significance of ‘The Final Cut’ at the time)…

George Lucas in 1997 on the Special Edition: What ends up being important in my mind is what the DVD version is going to look like, because that’s what everybody is going to remember. The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition].

#26, when finished, will be highlighting the question of… given there always have been 35mm prints of the 1997 Special Editions ready to release on various home formats over time (DVD, blu ray, 4K/UHD, Digital Downloads, and now Disney+) - and also that the latest 2019 Special Edition release (aka ‘Disney+ / Maclunkey’ version) are based on the unreleased 1997 Special Edition prints (or scans of)… why is there still no such release?

(Especially as the previous excuses given by George Lucas and Lucasfilm as to why they have not released the unaltered theatrical version of the Original Trilogy since 1995… do not apply here. The 1997 SE’s are ready for release - and always have been! With Disney+ now being a thing, they could also be released on there for very little cost.)
 

Regarding more Categories… if anyone has any ideas or suggestions of additional topics then I’m all ears and am more than happy to include them - yet I’m not actively searching for, or looking to add more Categories in here, myself.

Of course, I’ll gladly edit, update, or add any more sources of information for any of the existing Categories in here.
 

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Thankyou for the reply and explanation, and I’ll try and come up with some ideas for more topics.