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4k77 released — Page 16

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Looking forward to watch the DNR version. Though I would’ve loved if you released a DNR version with the original colors and not as oversharpened (looks like it’s vertically sharpened?). Remember, these are just my opinions and not really criticizm anyway, and only based on looking at the screenshots.

I think some of the shots look too cyan, (desert scenes should look warmer I think) and the shot of Leia looks as if it was matched to the old shot from Mike Verta. That shot of his has too bright whites and too dark blacks to match this to if not doing the whole thing with the same settings since the rest seems to have been kept soft.

It’ll be interesting to see if the DNR handled fast moving scenes well!

Sorry that I don’t visit OT often anymore. Real life is hell, basically.

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Both the 1080p and 2160p (4K UHD) DNR versions are now posted in a.b.starwars newsgroup on Usenet.

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Is there a ‘poster’ which can be used for the 4k77 edition for online libraries? Harmy had some excellent fan creations for his versions, does 4k77 have anything similar?

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ElegantAlchemist said:

Is there a ‘poster’ which can be used for the 4k77 edition for online libraries? Harmy had some excellent fan creations for his versions, does 4k77 have anything similar?

There is a ‘4K77 artwork’ thread in the ‘Case Covers, Disc Labels and Fan Art’ section of the site which may have a few choices mate, and there’s also a few 4K77 blu ray covers and misc 4K77 art in there too.
 

http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com/starwars/page/Project-4K77 uses this pretty cool banner:-

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here?
And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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Alright, I’m gonna be completely honest now that I’ve watched a bit of it and provide some constructive criticizm:
You should’ve taken the final 4K77 and applied the DNR without the excessive sharpening.
Not much would’ve been needed to remove the pink if you think it’s too much (you would only have needed to balance the white point) and it should’ve been done reel by reel, not shot by shot since that requires extreme care and consistency.
The DNR release is very, very inconsistent in its color from shot to shot and some shots look a lot cleaner in the original. R2D2 in the canyon is oversaturated and has purple shadows, as if you went back before the color correction done to your first release, and that’s just one example.

Of course I’m going to present proof for this. Here are two frames that appear right after each other, original on top and DNR on bottom:

To prove how consistent the original is compared to the DNR version, I took a patch of sand from both frames in photoshop and put them beside each other, the sand being a little brighter in the first frame so I lowered the exposure a little bit to make it match the sand from the 2nd frame. I used the same exposure setting on the same sand from the DNR version. Here they are as one picture, sand from frame 1 and 2 from the original on top and the same from the DNR version on bottom:

As you can probably see, the inconsistency in the DNR version is very visible here.
This is what the shots would’ve looked like if you took the original and removed the pink and brightened them the same way without crushing the whites as much:

Is there any chance we could get a proper DNR version in the future? Or that we could learn how to render one ourselves? I’d really wish to get rid of the print grain since it’s not the original negative grain anyway, but without the inconsistency in color. The colors are amazing in the first 4K77 release and wouldn’t need much tweaking if one wanted them to be a little more balanced. If you used avisynth for DNR I’d love to know the settings. When I’ve tried it in avisynth in the past, DNR just makes fast moving scenes look smudged so to speak.

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there are several other versions of 4k77 in the works if this one did not please you. i don’t think rob is going to work on it any further, but some other people will.

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You_Too said:

Is there any chance we could get a proper DNR version in the future?

This is the proper DNR version. There will not be another offical one from TN1. But there are multiple offshoot projects in the works that use 4K77’s lossless source files as a base, as Collipso said, so you’re probably gonna want to wait for one of those to come out.

If you used avisynth for DNR I’d love to know the settings. When I’ve tried it in avisynth in the past, DNR just makes fast moving scenes look smudged so to speak.

Nope, Rob used Neat, if I remember correctly, which is pricey professional-grade software.

a trolling bantha

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Honestly its going to get very messy from this point on, over at the 4K77 forums there are half a dozen people doing their own color grade, several versions all at varying stages of restoration.

I think projects should either stick to original unaltered colors or go all out and do a proper shot by shot grade for consistency and balance and to make it what a real back to negative restoration would be. I like the latest release, but It could be a lot better.

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 (Edited)

ChainsawAsh said:
But there are multiple offshoot projects in the works that use 4K77’s lossless source files as a base, as Collipso said, so you’re probably gonna want to wait for one of those to come out.

Looking forward to see what’ll come out!

ChainsawAsh said:
Nope, Rob used Neat, if I remember correctly, which is pricey professional-grade software.

Pretty sure I can get my hands on that anyway. 😃 Sadly I don’t have time to do much of these things anymore but if I ever have more time I will try it for sure. It did a better job with DNR than anything I’ve seen before.

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Since my external HDD is starting to fill up, should I replace Harmy’s 2.7 with the 1080p DNR for the moment?

(Asking this because sometimes I find myself being one of those “Oh, it’s 40 gigs so the quality must be superior” people.)

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They are two totally different approaches to restoration, watch both and see which one you prefer watching. There is no definitive answers as to which one is “Better”.

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 (Edited)

You_Too said:

Alright, I’m gonna be completely honest now that I’ve watched a bit of it and provide some constructive criticizm:
You should’ve taken the final 4K77 and applied the DNR without the excessive sharpening.
Not much would’ve been needed to remove the pink if you think it’s too much (you would only have needed to balance the white point) and it should’ve been done reel by reel, not shot by shot since that requires extreme care and consistency.
The DNR release is very, very inconsistent in its color from shot to shot and some shots look a lot cleaner in the original. R2D2 in the canyon is oversaturated and has purple shadows, as if you went back before the color correction done to your first release, and that’s just one example.

You’re absolutely right about the color inconsistency, and I knew that before it was released - it really needs a final color correction pass to make sure each scene is consistent shot to shot, but I just didn’t have it in me to make that additional pass. I’m really hoping that one of the spin off projects can finish it off properly.

But this is also exactly why I made the noDNR version the way I did. Initially that was going to be color corrected too, and in fact the whole project was delayed more than 6 months while at least 5 people took a crack at the color correction, but I still wasn’t happy with any of them, so I had to go through and undo all the color changes, in favor of the simple, per reel white balance that would allow everybody to make their own color choices and make the film look however they wanted it to look.

I’ll walk you through the process I used for the DNR version, and then you’ll have a better understanding of how we got to where we are, and what you will want to do differently if you take a crack at it yourself.

Starting with the noDNR version, I used Neat Video to reduce the noise. A single noise profile can be used for the entire film and give you pretty good results, but for better results you will want to create a separate noise profile for each of the noisier shots: The smoke filled corridors on the Tantive, the droids in the Desert, “Look sir, Droids”, the sandcrawler coming over the Dune, the imfamous speeder scene, and just about any shot with a white/pink flash. Every single shot in those sequences had it’s own noise profile, because the level of noise varies greatly. I had initially set out to create a separate noise profile for every single shot in the film, but quickly discovered that even with an 8 GB video card and 128 GB of RAM, you run out of memory way before you run out of shots doing it that way with 4K footage.

Anyway, that took weeks, and when it was done it became obvious that all of that noise was hiding tons of dirt and dust that suddenly became very distracting. So I had to go through the entire film again, cleaning up the more distracting dirt and dust - and there’s still plenty left.

While I was in PFClean, I used the Color Balance effect to automatically balance every shot.

All that noise and grain provided an illusion of sharpness, so some sharpening is required at this point - I used RevisionFX SK Sharpen, and increased the contrast to make everything look sharper.

Finally, I used a commercially available, 4K Kodak 5219 35mm film grain layer to add a consistent level of grain throughout the film.

That was RC1.

For RC2 I went back and did a shot by shot curves adjustment, adding back some of the red and yellow that PFClean had removed, and made an effort to ensure that everytime we cut to Luke, for example, the colors matched the last time we cut to him at the same camera angle. It was at about this point I noticed that when we cut back to Ben, the colors were not quite the same as when we cut to Luke - the sand/rocks/walls were different enough that I knew it needed fixing.

But, it was May when I started working on the DNR version and now it is September. At some point you just have to call it and let it go. Let somebody else have a crack at it. I’ve been cleaning Star Wars every day since 2013, first with the Silver Screen Edition and then with 4K77. There’s always more that I could do to make it better - always!

But after 5 years I just want to move on to something else - or I’ll risk becoming like Lucas himself - unable to stop tweaking the film even after 30 years!

I have the scan of The Living Daylights print to work on, scans of the 16mm Making of Star Wars, From SW to Jedi and Classic Creatures, some 16mm and 35mm trailers for other films and TV Spots, and a little film called Return of the Jedi to finish up.

So I’m sorry if you don’t like this version - I’m not 100% happy with it myself - but I honestly believe that using both of these versions as a starting point, I’m giving you and everyone else just about everything you could possibly need to make your own dream version of Star Wars - with the noDNR version alone you now have access to a more or less untouched, relatively clean, complete version of Star Wars in 4K to play with! It wasn’t so long ago that the best version we had was the GOUT.

I’m sure Poita can do a better job than me, and hopefully one day we’ll get to see his own restoration of the film. There is also his scan of the SE print to consider - a lot of that scan could be used to upgrade the 4K77 footage.

But until then, I’m afraid it’s just not going to get much better than this - unless Lucasfilm rescans the original elements in 4K (or 8K) and reassembles the original cut of the film for us.

So I encourage all of you take these files and create your own ideal version of the film and then share it with us here - be like burger king and “have it your way”, but I’m done with this film (at least for now!)

http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com

http://www.the007dossier.com

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Williarob said:

So I’m sorry if you don’t like this version - I’m not 100% happy with it myself - but I honestly believe that using both of these versions as a starting point, I’m giving you and everyone else just about everything you could possibly need to make your own dream version of Star Wars - with the noDNR version alone you now have access to a more or less untouched, relatively clean, complete version of Star Wars in 4K to play with! It wasn’t so long ago that the best version we had was the GOUT.

You’re a class act Williarob 😃 Thanks for giving so much of your time for Star Wars

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 (Edited)

Williarob said:
So I’m sorry if you don’t like this version - I’m not 100% happy with it myself - but I honestly believe that using both of these versions as a starting point, I’m giving you and everyone else just about everything you could possibly need to make your own dream version of Star Wars - with the noDNR version alone you now have access to a more or less untouched, relatively clean, complete version of Star Wars in 4K to play with! It wasn’t so long ago that the best version we had was the GOUT.

You’re a class act Williarob 😃 Thanks for giving so much of your time for Star Wars

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Watched this projected yesterday and this is amazing 😃, well done Williarob and everyone else involved. Thanks for all the hard work over the years.

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Williarob said:
Starting with the noDNR version, I used Neat Video to reduce the noise. A single noise profile can be used for the entire film and give you pretty good results, but for better results you will want to create a separate noise profile for each of the noisier shots: The smoke filled corridors on the Tantive, the droids in the Desert, “Look sir, Droids”, the sandcrawler coming over the Dune, the imfamous speeder scene, and just about any shot with a white/pink flash. Every single shot in those sequences had it’s own noise profile, because the level of noise varies greatly. I had initially set out to create a separate noise profile for every single shot in the film, but quickly discovered that even with an 8 GB video card and 128 GB of RAM, you run out of memory way before you run out of shots doing it that way with 4K footage.

This is something that was very, very well done and I kinda expected it since as Mike Verta once pointed out, some scenes had so much noise and/or color noise in them even on the negative that there’s not much detail to dig out of them, like the speeder shot in Mos Eisley. You’ve done an amazing job on all that.

Williarob said:
Anyway, that took weeks, and when it was done it became obvious that all of that noise was hiding tons of dirt and dust that suddenly became very distracting. So I had to go through the entire film again, cleaning up the more distracting dirt and dust - and there’s still plenty left.

Another impressive thing that’s been done.

Williarob said:
While I was in PFClean, I used the Color Balance effect to automatically balance every shot.

This is the part that should’ve been skipped, I know it from photoshop and premiere and in 9 out of 10 situations it doesn’t do a good job. It’s most likely what created the huge inconsistency.

Williarob said:
So I’m sorry if you don’t like this version - I’m not 100% happy with it myself - but I honestly believe that using both of these versions as a starting point, I’m giving you and everyone else just about everything you could possibly need to make your own dream version of Star Wars - with the noDNR version alone you now have access to a more or less untouched, relatively clean, complete version of Star Wars in 4K to play with! It wasn’t so long ago that the best version we had was the GOUT.

First of all, I’m very sorry if I bashed you too hard. I guess I looked forward to this version a little too much, and having worked on similar projects I tend to be very picky about color work. My apologies.
I’m glad that thanks to you, we don’t have to watch the GOUT ever again and I look forward to 4K80 and 4K83. 😃

If I had a better real life I would’ve given it a shot probably, though I have 6GB ram so I bet my computer wouldn’t be able to handle working on a 4K movie. I’ll be checking back here and on myspleen every now and then and hope someone else who are able to do it will render another DNR version. It just made it look so much cleaner and I don’t often say that about DNR, with things like Predator Ultimate Hunter Edition in mind, or that new release of Jurassic Park.

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You_Too said:

Williarob said:
Starting with the noDNR version, I used Neat Video to reduce the noise. A single noise profile can be used for the entire film and give you pretty good results, but for better results you will want to create a separate noise profile for each of the noisier shots: The smoke filled corridors on the Tantive, the droids in the Desert, “Look sir, Droids”, the sandcrawler coming over the Dune, the imfamous speeder scene, and just about any shot with a white/pink flash. Every single shot in those sequences had it’s own noise profile, because the level of noise varies greatly. I had initially set out to create a separate noise profile for every single shot in the film, but quickly discovered that even with an 8 GB video card and 128 GB of RAM, you run out of memory way before you run out of shots doing it that way with 4K footage.

This is something that was very, very well done and I kinda expected it since as Mike Verta once pointed out, some scenes had so much noise and/or color noise in them even on the negative that there’s not much detail to dig out of them, like the speeder shot in Mos Eisley. You’ve done an amazing job on all that.

Williarob said:
Anyway, that took weeks, and when it was done it became obvious that all of that noise was hiding tons of dirt and dust that suddenly became very distracting. So I had to go through the entire film again, cleaning up the more distracting dirt and dust - and there’s still plenty left.

Another impressive thing that’s been done.

Williarob said:
While I was in PFClean, I used the Color Balance effect to automatically balance every shot.

This is the part that should’ve been skipped, I know it from photoshop and premiere and in 9 out of 10 situations it doesn’t do a good job. It’s most likely what created the huge inconsistency.

Williarob said:
So I’m sorry if you don’t like this version - I’m not 100% happy with it myself - but I honestly believe that using both of these versions as a starting point, I’m giving you and everyone else just about everything you could possibly need to make your own dream version of Star Wars - with the noDNR version alone you now have access to a more or less untouched, relatively clean, complete version of Star Wars in 4K to play with! It wasn’t so long ago that the best version we had was the GOUT.

First of all, I’m very sorry if I bashed you too hard. I guess I looked forward to this version a little too much, and having worked on similar projects I tend to be very picky about color work. My apologies.
I’m glad that thanks to you, we don’t have to watch the GOUT ever again and I look forward to 4K80 and 4K83. 😃

If I had a better real life I would’ve given it a shot probably, though I have 6GB ram so I bet my computer wouldn’t be able to handle working on a 4K movie. I’ll be checking back here and on myspleen every now and then and hope someone else who are able to do it will render another DNR version. It just made it look so much cleaner and I don’t often say that about DNR, with things like Predator Ultimate Hunter Edition in mind, or that new release of Jurassic Park.

No worries mate. I do wish you were feeling up to having a go at it yourself, I’ve always admired your work on the Team Blu projects. If things change, let me know, and I’ll gladly share the cleaned but not yet color corrected/sharpened (or DNR’d) prores files with you.

In the meantime, there is a spin off project called “The Skywalker Edition” that uses 4K77 as a jumping off point and may be closer to what you had in mind:

Here is a short preview

As usual with this sort of project, it’s hard to pin down when this might be finished, but keep any eye out for it sometime in the future. I’m told colors aren’t finalized yet, but they are in the ballpark. The creator, “SkyDude”, is using 2500+ 35mm Technicolor frames for quick color reference, but also has access to a complete, original Technicolor print, and it’s his job to restore films, so I’m hopeful that his project - and others like it - will continue to build on the foundations TN1 has provided, and push the quality envelope even further than we ever thought possible in our little community.

http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com

http://www.the007dossier.com

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Williarob said:

You_Too said:

Williarob said:
Starting with the noDNR version, I used Neat Video to reduce the noise. A single noise profile can be used for the entire film and give you pretty good results, but for better results you will want to create a separate noise profile for each of the noisier shots: The smoke filled corridors on the Tantive, the droids in the Desert, “Look sir, Droids”, the sandcrawler coming over the Dune, the imfamous speeder scene, and just about any shot with a white/pink flash. Every single shot in those sequences had it’s own noise profile, because the level of noise varies greatly. I had initially set out to create a separate noise profile for every single shot in the film, but quickly discovered that even with an 8 GB video card and 128 GB of RAM, you run out of memory way before you run out of shots doing it that way with 4K footage.

This is something that was very, very well done and I kinda expected it since as Mike Verta once pointed out, some scenes had so much noise and/or color noise in them even on the negative that there’s not much detail to dig out of them, like the speeder shot in Mos Eisley. You’ve done an amazing job on all that.

Williarob said:
Anyway, that took weeks, and when it was done it became obvious that all of that noise was hiding tons of dirt and dust that suddenly became very distracting. So I had to go through the entire film again, cleaning up the more distracting dirt and dust - and there’s still plenty left.

Another impressive thing that’s been done.

Williarob said:
While I was in PFClean, I used the Color Balance effect to automatically balance every shot.

This is the part that should’ve been skipped, I know it from photoshop and premiere and in 9 out of 10 situations it doesn’t do a good job. It’s most likely what created the huge inconsistency.

Williarob said:
So I’m sorry if you don’t like this version - I’m not 100% happy with it myself - but I honestly believe that using both of these versions as a starting point, I’m giving you and everyone else just about everything you could possibly need to make your own dream version of Star Wars - with the noDNR version alone you now have access to a more or less untouched, relatively clean, complete version of Star Wars in 4K to play with! It wasn’t so long ago that the best version we had was the GOUT.

First of all, I’m very sorry if I bashed you too hard. I guess I looked forward to this version a little too much, and having worked on similar projects I tend to be very picky about color work. My apologies.
I’m glad that thanks to you, we don’t have to watch the GOUT ever again and I look forward to 4K80 and 4K83. 😃

If I had a better real life I would’ve given it a shot probably, though I have 6GB ram so I bet my computer wouldn’t be able to handle working on a 4K movie. I’ll be checking back here and on myspleen every now and then and hope someone else who are able to do it will render another DNR version. It just made it look so much cleaner and I don’t often say that about DNR, with things like Predator Ultimate Hunter Edition in mind, or that new release of Jurassic Park.

i thought this frame was from The SkyMaster Edition and not The Skywalker Edition?

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Collipso said:
i thought this frame was from The SkyMaster Edition and not The Skywalker Edition?

What is the difference? I think I saw some clip on youtube once saying that the Skywalker Edition was gonna have chromatic aberration sorted out and all that, color channels aligned etc. That must take forever to do.