George Lucas's Sequel Trilogy — Page 8

It’s so hilarious to me to see some people here so overly touchy about Lucas that they’re getting annoyed at outline ideas that I think do pitch distinct enough ideas comparably to Disney’s ST. It’s like a grasping of defenses for Disney’s lack of creativity to me.

George wasn’t going to make sequels he was going to make Star Wars underworld and that never got made.

Disney’s priority was to make a commercial for a theme park. And to sell toys. Other ancillary merchandise. Storytelling was never as important as corporate planning was. They have shareholder calls and meetings, corporate boards and governance. Quarterly quotas.

JadedSkywalker said:

George wasn’t going to make sequels he was going to make Star Wars underworld and that never got made.

Disney’s priority was to make a commercial for a theme park. And to sell toys. Other ancillary merchandise. Storytelling was never as important as corporate planning was. They have shareholder calls and meetings, corporate boards and governance. Quarterly quotas.

I called them outline ideas, not scripts. I do still think there’s more creativity in them than the ST though.

Dagenspear said:

It’s so hilarious to me to see some people here so overly touchy about Lucas that they’re getting annoyed at outline ideas that I think do pitch distinct enough ideas comparably to Disney’s ST. It’s like a grasping of defenses for Disney’s lack of creativity to me.

Yeah Lucas’s sequels sounded awesome to me

JadedSkywalker said:

George wasn’t going to make sequels he was going to make Star Wars underworld and that never got made.

Disney’s priority was to make a commercial for a theme park. And to sell toys. Other ancillary merchandise. Storytelling was never as important as corporate planning was. They have shareholder calls and meetings, corporate boards and governance. Quarterly quotas.

It’s confirmed he was going to make sequels

oojason said:

JadedSkywalker said:

George wasn’t going to make sequels he was going to make Star Wars underworld and that never got made.

Disney’s priority was to make a commercial for a theme park. And to sell toys. Other ancillary merchandise. Storytelling was never as important as corporate planning was. They have shareholder calls and meetings, corporate boards and governance. Quarterly quotas.

Yeah, for me his ideas for Underworld sure seem a lot more intriguing than what we’ve learnt of his Sequel Trilogy outlines. 👍

A pity we never got to see that - especially given the writing talents assorted for the series (though some aspects of it have been rejigged for stories in other SW series since?).
 

Some of his sequel ideas have also been repurposed. If Mando and Grogu holds to be true they will be facing warlords running the remnants of the Empire. And Dave Filoni is using George’s ideas in Darth Maul Shadow lord with Darth Talon.

Wasn’t Luke as a colonel Kurtz like character allegedly in George’s treatment. That sort of ended up in the Last Jedi if not in the way George would have handled it. The astral projection/ Luke is a legend stuff. and not a straightforward redemption arc. That does not sound like George at all. I also don’t picture Lucas making the prequel Jedi failures and Luke’s meta narrative. Chuck the lightsaber it’s time for the Jedi to end. Burn the tree with the Jedi texts, oh that is right Rey stole them.

I do like the idea that the force is bigger than the light side and the dark side and its vanity that the force dies if the jedi religion dies. The balance being bigger than the jedi and Sith conflict is interesting and then its abandoned.

JadedSkywalker said:

oojason said:

JadedSkywalker said:

George wasn’t going to make sequels he was going to make Star Wars underworld and that never got made.

Disney’s priority was to make a commercial for a theme park. And to sell toys. Other ancillary merchandise. Storytelling was never as important as corporate planning was. They have shareholder calls and meetings, corporate boards and governance. Quarterly quotas.

Yeah, for me his ideas for Underworld sure seem a lot more intriguing than what we’ve learnt of his Sequel Trilogy outlines. 👍

A pity we never got to see that - especially given the writing talents assorted for the series (though some aspects of it have been rejigged for stories in other SW series since?).
 

Some of his sequel ideas have also been repurposed. If Mando and Gorgo holds to be true they will be facing warlords running the remnants of the Empire. And Dave Filoni is using George’s ideas in Darth Maul Shadow lord with Darth Talon.

Wasn’t Luke as a colonel Kurtz like character allegedly in George’s treatment. That sort of ended up in the Last Jedi if not in the way George would have handled it. The astral projection/ Luke is a legend stuff. and not a straightforward redemption arc. That does not sound like George at all. I also don’t picture Lucas making the prequel Jedi failures and Luke’s meta narrative. Chuck the lightsaber it’s time for the Jedi to end. Burn the tree with the Jedi texts, oh that is right Rey stole them.

I do like the idea that the force is bigger than the light side and the dark side and its vanity that the force dies if the jedi religion dies. The balance being bigger than the jedi and Sith conflict is interesting and then it’s abandoned.

The exiled Luke definitely would’ve been executed completely differently in the Lucas outlines, and yeah Lucas always intended the prequel Jedi to be in the right

oojason said:

JadedSkywalker said:

oojason said:

JadedSkywalker said:

George wasn’t going to make sequels he was going to make Star Wars underworld and that never got made.

Disney’s priority was to make a commercial for a theme park. And to sell toys. Other ancillary merchandise. Storytelling was never as important as corporate planning was. They have shareholder calls and meetings, corporate boards and governance. Quarterly quotas.

Yeah, for me his ideas for Underworld sure seem a lot more intriguing than what we’ve learnt of his Sequel Trilogy outlines. 👍

A pity we never got to see that - especially given the writing talents assorted for the series (though some aspects of it have been rejigged for stories in other SW series since?).
 

Some of his sequel ideas have also been repurposed. If Mando and Gorgo holds to be true they will be facing warlords running the remnants of the Empire. And Dave Filoni is using George’s ideas in Darth Maul Shadow lord with Darth Talon.

Wasn’t Luke as a colonel Kurtz like character allegedly in George’s treatment. That sort of ended up in the Last Jedi if not in the way George would have handled it. The astral projection/ Luke is a legend stuff. and not a straightforward redemption arc. That does not sound like George at all. I also don’t picture Lucas making the prequel Jedi failures and Luke’s meta narrative. Chuck the lightsaber it’s time for the Jedi to end. Burn the tree with the Jedi texts, oh that is right Rey stole them.

I do like the idea that the force is bigger than the light side and the dark side and its vanity that the force dies if the jedi religion dies. The balance being bigger than the jedi and Sith conflict is interesting and then its abandoned.

Yeah, that aspect being ignored in TROS was really disappointing. Was it included in Colin Trevorrow’s original Duel of the Fates script? It’d certainly be interesting to see if it was.

I love those fan creations based on DOTF - Andrew Winegarner’s fan-made DOTF comic adaptation, Joe Kenobi’s full movie (motion comic), the ToyBox Special Edition, and dewvre’s 9-epsiode podcast read-through… I’ll have to revisit them for that.

A fan-made comic book adaptation of Trevorrow & Connolly’s Ep IX: ‘Duel of the Fates’ - with links for all 4 of the above projects.
 

Nope, Trevorrow’s script completely ruined balance. It literally revealed that the Jedi were wrong the whole time and that the Jedi rules were written by “some old man a thousand years ago”, and that in reality bringing balance to the Force means finding balance for both the light and dark side, and that it’s actually a good thing to not let go of your anger and be attached to things. With Leia’s encouragement, Rey would permanently cast aside Jedi beliefs and invent a new philosophy based off this truth and then use the dark side to kill Kylo. That + Snoke not having any reveal (even though Abrams’s answer was lame at least he gave us an answer) were the only parts of the DOTF script that are worse than TROS IMO

I thought they were going to do a Grey Jedi thing where she embraced the light and the dark. Just from watching The Last Jedi. But that is not what Lucas meant by balance of the force. It wasn’t Yin and Yang equal light and equal darkness, except maybe in Filoni’s mortis.

Balance meant Anakin killing Sidious. and ending the Sith menace. With his and his master’s death. Balance restored would be Luke restoring the Jedi, and Leia restoring the Republic as Chancellor.

I don’t see how it even would work out in George’s idea. Maul being the new Big bad that means the Sith and Empire threat remains. Maul ruling with Talon by his side the Imperial Remnant or criminal underworld whatever it was. Means the rule of two endured.

I don’t think Rey becoming the best ever Jedi who wields both dark and light-side powers would have gone down well with people. I also disagree that having both serves some kind of balance. “Once you start down the dark path” etc.

JadedSkywalker said:

Some of his sequel ideas have also been repurposed. If Mando and Gorgo holds to be true they will be facing warlords running the remnants of the Empire. And Dave Filoni is using George’s ideas in Darth Maul Shadow lord with Darth Talon.

Wasn’t Luke as a colonel Kurtz like character allegedly in George’s treatment. That sort of ended up in the Last Jedi if not in the way George would have handled it. The astral projection/ Luke is a legend stuff. and not a straightforward redemption arc. That does not sound like George at all. I also don’t picture Lucas making the prequel Jedi failures and Luke’s meta narrative. Chuck the lightsaber it’s time for the Jedi to end. Burn the tree with the Jedi texts, oh that is right Rey stole them.

I do like the idea that the force is bigger than the light side and the dark side and its vanity that the force dies if the jedi religion dies. The balance being bigger than the jedi and Sith conflict is interesting and then its abandoned.

But not in the story context they were pitched, with the characters they were connected to.

I don’t care about Luke being in exile. I care that Luke sucks. Would Luke have been a petty man child, who discards his sister and his friends life and blames the Jedi for all his problems, even though they had nothing to do with him pulling a weapon on his sleeping nephew with intent to murder him? If not, Luke being in exile doesn’t annoy me that much.

oojason said:

I gave the DOTF script another read through last night (I’d forgotten how enjoyable and engaging it was) - and there is certainly that aspect of the Force being addressed throughout the script (especially with Rey; and meshing / riffing with themes on Luke and Vader in ROTJ).

For me, the finale was quite intriguing on the subject _(and also breaking that problematic

Problematic? How? Having self control is problematic? Or is this the whole interpretation that the Jedi aren’t allowed to have feelings, even though all the main Jedi are shown to have feelings and feel emotions?

For me it would be the prequel doctrine on attachment I disagree with. Because Jedi had families and children in Star Wars lore before the prequels. Just like how the chosen one thing was made up and so was midichlorians.

To get the Jedi celibacy thing you have to go all the way back to discarded script drafts for the original film, the son of the suns prophecy for the chosen one thing. Midichlorians came from nowhere.

oojason said:

JadedSkywalker said:

oojason said:

JadedSkywalker said:

George wasn’t going to make sequels he was going to make Star Wars underworld and that never got made.

Disney’s priority was to make a commercial for a theme park. And to sell toys. Other ancillary merchandise. Storytelling was never as important as corporate planning was. They have shareholder calls and meetings, corporate boards and governance. Quarterly quotas.

Yeah, for me his ideas for Underworld sure seem a lot more intriguing than what we’ve learnt of his Sequel Trilogy outlines. 👍

A pity we never got to see that - especially given the writing talents assorted for the series (though some aspects of it have been rejigged for stories in other SW series since?).
 

Some of his sequel ideas have also been repurposed. If Mando and Gorgo holds to be true they will be facing warlords running the remnants of the Empire. And Dave Filoni is using George’s ideas in Darth Maul Shadow lord with Darth Talon.

Wasn’t Luke as a colonel Kurtz like character allegedly in George’s treatment. That sort of ended up in the Last Jedi if not in the way George would have handled it. The astral projection/ Luke is a legend stuff. and not a straightforward redemption arc. That does not sound like George at all. I also don’t picture Lucas making the prequel Jedi failures and Luke’s meta narrative. Chuck the lightsaber it’s time for the Jedi to end. Burn the tree with the Jedi texts, oh that is right Rey stole them.

I do like the idea that the force is bigger than the light side and the dark side and its vanity that the force dies if the jedi religion dies. The balance being bigger than the jedi and Sith conflict is interesting and then its abandoned.

I gave the DOTF script another read through last night (I’d forgotten how enjoyable and engaging it was) - and there is certainly that aspect of the Force being addressed throughout the script (especially with Rey; and meshing / riffing with themes on Luke and Vader in ROTJ).

For me, the finale was quite intriguing on the subject (and also breaking that problematic and bizarre Jedi dogma introduced and portrayed in the PT - as well as tackling the somewhat traditional circular nature of the Light & Dark overall)…

Obi-Wan: Your true self is free of suffering. Free of pain.
Yoda: Taught us much, you have.
Rey: I’ve taught you?
Yoda: Mmm. Succeeded where we have failed. Narrow was our point of view.
Luke: You chose to embrace the Dark Side and the Light. To find balance within.
Yoda: Co-exist, they must, as such feelings do in all of us.

and later - upon Rey’s return…

Leia: But there’s a calm I’ve never felt. Balance.
 

Rey actually learning from the mistakes of the past to actually move forward with a new Jedi Order (as of the DOTF) would’ve been something of interest to see in any later / post-ST era on-screen appearances… evolving both the story and lore onwards.

I’ll be giving the animated fan comic film another whirl tonight. 👍
 

And then another read-through of George’s belated ~2012 Sequel Trilogy outlines.
 

1. How is the Jedi dogma problematic or bizarre?
2. We don’t have Lucas’s sequel trilogy outlines, we only have info about some of their contents

JadedSkywalker said:

For me it would be the prequel doctrine on attachment I disagree with. Because Jedi had families and children in Star Wars lore before the prequels. Just like how the chosen one thing was made up and so was midichlorians.

To get the Jedi celibacy thing you have to go all the way back to discarded script drafts for the original film, the son of the suns prophecy for the chosen one thing. Midichlorians came from nowhere.

1. It isn’t fair to expect Lucas to be beholden to other people’s writings for his own universe
2. Midi-chlorians were also based on ideas from older drafts

Broom Kid said:

Lucas’ conception of the Jedi being weird emotionally stunted monks (which did not exist until he really started writing Episode I, either) was one of the worst decisions he made in the 90s, honestly. Along with aging Anakin down to 8, and not making Padme the main character of the Prequel trilogy.

he made a ton of absolutely terrible calls in his mythology as he made it up, and because so much of his own self-mythologizing is built around the grandiosity of his own creativity, he basically couldn’t retcon his own bad storytelling instinct to arrive at any of the interesting endpoints his bad setup COULD be saved by.

That Trevorrow wound up looking at the ingredients Lucas laid out for his mythology and arrived at an answer that makes SOME kind of emotional/philosophical sense (vs the dogmatic adherence to what “Balance of the Force has to mean”) kinda speaks to how stunted and forced every aspect of Jedi dogma, both textually AND metatextually.

It’s like Lucas (and Lucasfilm) forgot all this shit is made up, and the only real use any of it has is for allegorical storytelling, and for figuring out a way to use those elements in the pursuit of saying SOMETHING interesting about our own world and lives.

I think they are neither emotionally stunted, nor are they weird, as all the main Jedi show emotions and are never treated as bad for showing emotions. What does it matter when it existed? I think Padme is the main character of TPM, but why should she be the main character of the PT, when the plot about the fall of the Jedi has about nothing to do with her?

What’s terrible about Anakin being a child? And aging down? Anakin was never established in any movie before TPM to have been any age, so how is he aged down? You gave no reasons I think for what’s terrible about any of this, just resorted to claims about Lucas’ ideas of himself it seems to me.

And you didn’t give any reasoning for what’s stunted or more emotionally sensible about any of this.

Did you not percieve the idea of people indulging in their own selfish wants and fears and how that can lead to self destruction and the harm of those you care about and fascism? How is the PT, I think, saying that not something interesting about our own world and lives?

JadedSkywalker said:

For me it would be the prequel doctrine on attachment I disagree with. Because Jedi had families and children in Star Wars lore before the prequels. Just like how the chosen one thing was made up and so was midichlorians.

To get the Jedi celibacy thing you have to go all the way back to discarded script drafts for the original film, the son of the suns prophecy for the chosen one thing. Midichlorians came from nowhere.

How is it problematic, based on EU material doing something else? All of Star Wars is made up, just like the eu stuff about them having families was made up.

oojason said:

You nailed it.
 

I think they are neither emotionally stunted, nor are they weird, as all the main Jedi show emotions and are never treated as bad for showing emotions. What does it matter when it existed? I think Padme is the main character of TPM, but why should she be the main character of the PT, when the plot about the fall of the Jedi has about nothing to do with her?

What’s terrible about Anakin being a child? And aging down? Anakin was never established in any movie before TPM to have been any age, so how is he aged down? You gave no reasons I think for what’s terrible about any of this, just resorted to claims about Lucas’ ideas of himself it seems to me.

And you didn’t give any reasoning for what’s stunted or more emotionally sensible about any of this.

Did you not percieve the idea of people indulging in their own selfish wants and fears and how that can lead to self destruction and the harm of those you care about and fascism? How is the PT, I think, saying that not something interesting about our own world and lives?

Avimo said:

JadedSkywalker said:

For me it would be the prequel doctrine on attachment I disagree with. Because Jedi had families and children in Star Wars lore before the prequels. Just like how the chosen one thing was made up and so was midichlorians.

To get the Jedi celibacy thing you have to go all the way back to discarded script drafts for the original film, the son of the suns prophecy for the chosen one thing. Midichlorians came from nowhere.

1. It isn’t fair to expect Lucas to be beholden to other people’s writings for his own universe
2. Midi-chlorians were also based on ideas from older drafts

Which ideas and drafts were those?

RangerofAquilae said:

Avimo said:

JadedSkywalker said:

For me it would be the prequel doctrine on attachment I disagree with. Because Jedi had families and children in Star Wars lore before the prequels. Just like how the chosen one thing was made up and so was midichlorians.

To get the Jedi celibacy thing you have to go all the way back to discarded script drafts for the original film, the son of the suns prophecy for the chosen one thing. Midichlorians came from nowhere.

1. It isn’t fair to expect Lucas to be beholden to other people’s writings for his own universe
2. Midi-chlorians were also based on ideas from older drafts

Which ideas and drafts were those?

The second draft of ANH mentions that the first Jedi knew that anyone could use the Force, but he only chose his children to become Jedi because he was worried about people who are weaker in the Force having an easier chance at being seduced by the dark side. The prequel Jedi in Lucas’s vision basically did the same thing, except midi-chlorian counts take the place of the family connection

oojason said:

JadedSkywalker said:

For me it would be the prequel doctrine on attachment I disagree with. Because Jedi had families and children in Star Wars lore before the prequels. Just like how the chosen one thing was made up and so was midichlorians.

Aye, like Broom Kid’s post above - that is pretty much spot on for me, mate.

To get the Jedi celibacy thing you have to go all the way back to discarded script drafts for the original film, the son of the suns prophecy for the chosen one thing. Midichlorians came from nowhere.

Yeah, 100%. Along with the infamous lie and woeful attempt at re-writing history / time-travel from Lucas himself - an inane and bizarre attempt to give his then-new midichlorians idea some credibility (for want of a better word)… it certainly didn’t come from when Lucas attempted to claimed it to be - so ‘nowhere’ fits quite aptly.
 

If you’re talking about how Rinzler’s book had a fake quote about Lucas mentioning midi-chlorians in 1977, that easily could’ve been an accident on Rinzler’s part. Rinzler never said Lucas was deliberately trying to rewrite history; all he said was that Lucas “added a note” about midi-chlorians. So it’s possible Lucas actually just intended to add an extra note there for fun and to update it, but Rinzler accidentally included it as part of the original quote.