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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 131

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One problem with the prequels was exposition. Lots of people complained about Palpatine being a grinning two-faced politician, but how else was he meant to claw his way to the top and then topple the democratic order?

A much better example of a terrible scene, done purely for exposition, is where Anakin declares to Padme that he dislikes democracy. Why is this a bad scene? Well it doesn’t make sense for his character arc. There’s no reason behind it. Did democracy sell him and his mum into slavery, that’d be a good justification for his distrust. Maybe his Jedi training has indoctrinated him into this belief? Maybe there is a genuine dislike he has for the Republic, something, anything? Alas, he has literally no reason to say he dislikes the institution and that people “should be made to agree”. With good storytelling there should be a reason behind his line of thought, but there’s none. This is pure exposition to inform the audience that Anakin has authoritarian tendencies. This is one of the unfortunate storytelling tropes Disney Star Wars has been using.

[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]

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 (Edited)

Warning, deep spoiler:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/ecbvpa/rey_vs_palpatine/

That looks so awful.

Rey: “I am all the Jedi”???!?!? She’s not even a Jedi how can she claim to be them all? And Palpatine claiming to be “all the Siths” literally makes no sense as in the prequels, and indeed the Original Trilogy as well, he literally destroyed all the Siths. He killed them first, then the Jedi. He showed absolutely no allegiance to the Sith order. In my favourite Prequel he sends an ill-prepared apprentice Darth Maul to his death with the false-promise that he is much stronger “they will be no match” he tells him. That’s one of my favourite things about Phantom Menace is how heartless he is towards Maul, he’s really testing him to see if he’s strong enough to serve him - it’s complete self-interest. Just like how he tests Luke in Return of the Jedi (but he isn’t prepared for Luke).

Oh dear this is what Star Wars has become. Bringing back a beloved villain, just to make a complete mockery out of him.

[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]

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 (Edited)

RU.08 said:

Warning, deep spoiler:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/ecbvpa/rey_vs_palpatine/

That looks so awful.

Rey: “I am all the Jedi”???!?!? She’s not even a Jedi how can she claim to be them all? And Palpatine claiming to be “all the Siths” literally makes no sense as in the prequels, and indeed the Original Trilogy as well, he literally destroyed all the Siths. He killed them first, then the Jedi. He showed absolutely no allegiance to the Sith order. In my favourite Prequel he sends an ill-prepared apprentice Darth Maul to his death with the false-promise that he is much stronger “they will be no match” he tells him. That’s one of my favourite things about Phantom Menace is how heartless he is towards Maul, he’s really testing him to see if he’s strong enough to serve him - it’s complete self-interest. Just like how he tests Luke in Return of the Jedi (but he isn’t prepared for Luke).

Oh dear this is what Star Wars has become. Bringing back a beloved villain, just to make a complete mockery out of him.

If we take these scenes in isolation - and without context - then we may not have the full understanding of what is occurring (or has already occurred) 😉

Without the full story (or events around this part of the plot / film) we’re just guessing - though you still may be right, of course.

 


 

The Rise Of Skywalker — Official Review and Opinions Thread — * SPOILERS * thread is now open for reviews and opinions…

In the linked thread above there is no need for spoiler tags / codes etc - and members can talk about the film freely in there…

 

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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 (Edited)

The vast majority of Star Wars movies are, to some extent, terrible, so personally I’m not too phased by these negative critic reviews. Even if the movie is abysmal when I go see it this evening, I’m sure I’ll be able to at least enjoy it in the same way I enjoy the Phantom Menace. Maybe I’m a mindless consumer.

And then a few years from now, our community here will have produced hundreds of fanedits, and maybe managed to turn it into a good movie. It sounds like it suffers from the opposite problem as TLJ though: that movie is too long and has some jarring jokes and moments - problems easily fixed with fanediting - while it sounds like this movie tries to cram too much in to its runtime. We can VFX in extra ghosts, replace audio, adjust Ben’s fate etc etc. but it’s not really going to be possible to change Palpatine’s death sequence or anything that fundamental. Fingers crossed for some high utility deleted scenes.

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I saw the spoilers quite some time ago and I just laughed them off. There’s no way it could be as bad as all that, right? Right?! Man, was I wrong. I have two major issues with this film.

The Skywalker family is completely dead and gone and the Emperor’s granddaughter takes the Skywalker name.

Imagine only having seen ANH and then being told this was the ending. That sounds like the villains win in the end. It makes it sound like this whole franchise is a complete waste of time.

Kylo somehow transfers his life into Rey, accomplishing something that both Plageius and Sidious could not do throughout their entire lives.

This sounds extremely cheap, undeserved, and frankly lore-breaking.

Everything I’ve heard about this movie sounds completely horrible and completely craps over every single movie, character, plot point, and piece of lore that came before it. Everything that has happened before is completely meaningless. Both Anakin and Luke’s character arcs amounted to nothing in the end.

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I mean, if this movie is a big overstuffed mess, I’ll be okay with it. Attack of the Clones didn’t ruin Empire Strikes Back or A New Hope. This won’t ruin The Last Jedi. Kevin J. Anderson didn’t make me stop reading books. It’s perfectly Star Wars for Star Wars to end on a weirdly overstuffed and kinda unsatisfying note (ROTS, ROTJ, TROS I guess?) so I’m… fine with it. There are other movies to watch this Winter (Uncut Gems, 1917… CATS, hahaha - Oh god, what if that movie gets a higher RT score) so I’m not too worried about whether Star Wars, which is only barely more good than it is bad as a film series (which makes it pretty good so far as long-running film series go) ends on a shrug.

But that essay is sort of weird. It almost reads like a eulogy for all the time that guy spent writing about Star Wars on fansites people don’t read. “I’m sure it’s trash but I’ll like it anyway” is an interesting choice of epitaph for 20+ years of volunteer work.

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Well, I just got back from seeing TROS and summed up shortly;

It’s a complete mess, but at least it’s an entertaining mess.

I have to say that the Palpatine scenes really “saved” it for me, though it does also constantly remind me of how much of a course correct this film is. Some will probably love it for that very reason, some people will hate it for that reason, and I can’t really say I feel either way about it. It had heart, it looked great, action was fine, though it’s also so filled with retcons that I’m curious to see how the EU is going to make it all fit together. I honestly think they borrowed some fan theories to justify things from the previous two films, and at this point I can only say: “sure, why not.”

The most interesting thing to me really is seeing just how dense this franchise has gotten considering how simple the OT was. This film is jam-packed with so much it was almost overwhelming at times. Though the film did actually manage to slow down and have more quiet moments, so I’ll give them that.

I don’t really have much more to say without going into spoilers. It was weird, convoluted, but it was entertaining.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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timdiggerm said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I don’t really have much more to say without going into spoilers. It was weird, convoluted, but it was entertaining.

I mean, you’re in the right thread for spoilers?

I thought we had to wait until it had been released everywhere? Or at least hide obvious spoilers (who dies and such) and I’m currently on my phone so I don’t know how to do that right now.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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Reading through the short summaries on Rotten Tomatoes, I see that even many who liked the movie show that it has a huge flaw. I hope it is one I don’t find too distrcting, but it is one many saw in TFA. Abrams loves Star Wars. He loves it so much that he can’t help showing us that in the films. It sounds like that desire to please himself and other fans has damaged this film. Not necessarily totally destroyed it, but left most reviewers with a sense that this is Abrams love letter to Star Wars, even more so than TFA. I hope his ability to craft great scenes holds true and we get some awesome stuff. It is kind of what I expected from him so I’m not a bit surprised. My concern all along is if the ending fells right or not. On that there is a nice split that gives me hope that I will enjoy how this movie plays out. I think I will base my initial reaction to how it ends rather than the flaws that are clearly there. Sounds like this one might be good fodder for fan edits. Sounds like it is going to be another typical Abrams film. It was a mistake to bring him back. Still, if it has a good ending it won’t be a complete waste. (from the spoilers I think I am going to like the ending)

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Just came back from a screening and…

…I had a great time.

Before I go into it, I briefly summarize my feelings about the Star Wars franchise, so you can judge for yourself from where I’m coming from.

I liked TFA, but didn’t really care about TLJ. I admit that I enjoyed people ranting online about TLJ, but I myself was rather indifferent. I clearly remember walking out of the cinema feeling confused and wanting to forget what I just saw. It did what no Star Wars film ever should do: it killed my interest in the Star Wars universe. TFA on the other hand felt like a fresh restart. I get the complaints about it rehashing Star Wars end Empire, but for me it is an awesome blend of everything that makes Star Wars great and I have a blast from start to finish, every-time I revisit it. TLJ on the other hand, I’ve only seen once, which is funny, because I do consider Rian Johnson a better director than Abrams. He just wasn’t the right guy for Star Wars. Which brings me to Abrams and TROS.

The leaks are all correct as far as I can tell, because I only saw the major ones and wasn’t religiously following everything about Star Wars leading up to this movie. But the major ones that have been mentioned here are correct. Palpatine is back and all his scenes are fantasitc. It’s probably my favorite performance of him as Palpatine. The movie opens with his introduction and the way it was handled already put a big grin on my face.

Like with TFA, the movie feels like Abrams is apologizing for the sins of a different director. But this time he managed to catch the feeling of Star Wars without borrowing so many things from the movies before. The movie makes many wrongs of TLJ right again in the right way. They managed to transform Luke back into his old self with just a few lines at the right moment of the story. I was impressed how well they were able to include Leia into this movie. It’s obvious that they wrote her scenes around the lines they still had from her and feels a bit clunky at times, but it still worked for me. There’s also a great heart-warming flashback-scene with a young Luke and Leia training in the forest.

Finally the ST character trio spend enough time together for us to see them playing each other off. There are some bad jokes and most of their scenes are carried by Oscar Isaac, but their scenes are fun and lighthearted. They almost feels like an Indiana Jones movie during two sequences of the movie. Rose is reduced to a few small appearances and towards the ending we get a much better character for Fin to bond with. Rey and Kylo Ren are again the heart of this movie, but unlike TLJ they are not the only thing that is enjoyable in this movie. Adam Driver again delivers a great performance for a great character. Unfortunately, the resolution of his character is one of he few things that didn’t work for me. After he became good his character-development was done. His sacrifice not only felt stereotypical, but lacked the emotional resonance he had during the scene with his father, when he reconciled with Han.

The movie is full of heart-warming closure scenes. I left the cinema feeling like things are right again in the Star Wars universe. And while I knew what would happen, I still felt way more emotionally engaged than I did with TLJ. Not every joke landed and the horse riding in space scenes was as ridiculous as it looked like in the trailer, but it also wasn’t a woke propaganda film that some people make it out to be.

TROS is a really good closure to the Skywalker saga. It is a return to the hero’s journey without rehashing the OT. It is movie for the big screen, more so than TFA and TLJ. Some shots are truly breath-taking and it’s the visuals where this movie is the most original.

There are so many things I still want to get out, but I think I leave it at that. This movie delivered everything I wanted. It gave me closure. It made me accept TLJ. I was neutral about the leaks going in and left the cinema with this trans-formative feeling you get after watching a good hero’s jouney.

8/10

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I just got back as well.

I liked TFA and strongly defend TLJ as one of the top 3-4 films in the franchise.

What did I think? I thought it was pretty good actually.

It has its issues, but it’s not the trainwreck the reviewers are making it out to be.

I suppose the leaks are true, and I can see people being upset if they read a synopsis, but the execution is alright. They really did Rey and Ben right in this one.

Oh and I don’t recall seeing that much lens flare at all RU.08. The JJ lens work is pretty subdued.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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And C-3PO is really great in this movie, with an interesting role and some great lines!

Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!

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So spoiler-wise there’s a few things that stood out to me, both positive and negative:

The biggest positive for me has to be Palpatine. Since he was always the big bad huy of both the OT and the PT it makes sense to me to bring him back. Like I said before it does constantly remind you of just how much of a course correct this film really is, but whatever. I did find the Snokes in the tanks to be a tad funny, but it makes sense and I’m glad they didn’t waste time explaining exactly how that works. There will undoubtedly be an EU novel soon that will explain the whole thing. Overall though, I loved Palpatine’s new design. Although he was hooked up to a big machine, it still seems that he’s been cloned (makes sense considering the Snokes) considering how he no longer has a “melted” face but instead just looks like an old man with pale white skin. The white eyes and how his expressions changes in between flashes of light was a really cool effect that gave him that otherworldly feeling that the PT unfortunately toned down. The whole design actually reminded me of Bela Lugosi and the pale skin even gave him a B&W film feel. As a matter of the whole Bexol, or whatever the planet was called, reminded me a lot of Dark Empire, and although that will clearly annoy some people, I’m personally quite leased with it. TBH there really wasn’t much about this aspect of the film that I didn’t like. The hidden gigantic fleet and Palpatine attacking the rebel “fleet” with force lighting was fairly over the top, but at this point I don’t really care, and why not embrace the more absurd elements of SW at this point.

However I don’t really know what to think about the new twist regarding Rey’s identity. She’s apparently Palpatine’s granddaughter? The film didn’t really explain it. Palpatine just calls her his granddaughter, but never elaborates. Was Rey’s mother or father his child? And when did he father this child? Obviously this will be explained in the EU at some point, but I felt like this was a bit more important. But he also implies that he’s Anakin’s father, though that would obviously be through the force. Either way it makes the whole Reylo thing kind of weird now.

Speaking of Kylo Ren, I thought his arc was handled quite well in this. His redemption moment of tossing his saber into the sea was a nice reversal of his TFA scene and the stuff where he came to help Rey at the end was quite fun. The ability to move stuff via the force-link will probably annoy some people, but I thought it was a nice extension of the raindrops in TLJ.

I do however find it a bit funny that they actually ended up canonizing a fan theory that been circulating that Rey’s rapid growth in force abilities has to do with her literally being a divergence in the force like Anakin was. I can’t say I love that idea, but since TFA and TLJ are what they are, I’ll take it.

My biggest gripe with the film, oddly enough has to do with who dies at the end. I honestly would have much preferred if they had switched the deaths so that Ben lived and Rey died. Not only is Ben giving his life-force to Rey a really odd stretch considering how Anakin basically went dark side for that specific ability (more or less), but I guess he’s also a divergence in the force, or something like that, so why not. The main reason it bugs me is because I think the alternative would have been better narrative-wise. After all, Anakin, Obi-Wan and Luke had meaningful hero’s deaths, and I think it would have meant more if Rey had done the same and Ben was left behind to follow her example and do the right thing. There would have been so many opportunities for interesting stories in the EU or even other films post TROS if Ben had survived and became the Skywalker (technically speaking) who would continue the Jedi way, which BTW he was involved with for a fair while before Snoke/Palpatine corrupted him. Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I think this would have been way more interesting.

A few minor quibbles;

I still don’s know what “Rise of Skywalker” is supposed to mean and was there any real meaning to Rey returning to Tatooine at the end. The yellow lightsaber made me smile, and the ghost Luke and Leia was a nice moment, but burying their lightsabers there didn’t seem to have any real significance other than Abrams getting to shot a Tatooine scene.

Also the Knights of Ren kinda got the Phasma treatment. It’s almost like a ST tradition by now to build up hype around character/s and then just kill them off. At least they got to do something cool in this film before they were all killed.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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Excuse me, can I talk about the movie freely here? Just watched it…

Italian faneditor.

EDITS LIST:
Episode IV - THE HEIR OF SKYWALKER. Episode VI - RETURN OF THE JEDI RENEWED. DYAD IN THE FORCE (3-into-1 sequels).
PM me for links if interested.

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 (Edited)

IlFanEditore said:

Excuse me, can I talk about the movie freely here? Just watched it…

The Rise Of Skywalker — Official Review and Opinions Thread — * SPOILERS * thread is now open for reviews and opinions…

In the linked thread above there is no need for spoiler tags / codes etc - and you can talk about the film freely in there 😃

 

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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voltwaffle said:

The Skywalker family is completely dead and gone and the Emperor’s granddaughter takes the Skywalker name.

Imagine only having seen ANH and then being told this was the ending. That sounds like the villains win in the end. It makes it sound like this whole franchise is a complete waste of time.

This is why my love affair with postmodernism is over. Deconstruction without reconstruction is destruction.

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RU.08 said:

Warning, deep spoiler:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/ecbvpa/rey_vs_palpatine/

That looks so awful.

Rey: “I am all the Jedi”???!?!? She’s not even a Jedi how can she claim to be them all? And Palpatine claiming to be “all the Siths” literally makes no sense as in the prequels, and indeed the Original Trilogy as well, he literally destroyed all the Siths. He killed them first, then the Jedi. He showed absolutely no allegiance to the Sith order. In my favourite Prequel he sends an ill-prepared apprentice Darth Maul to his death with the false-promise that he is much stronger “they will be no match” he tells him. That’s one of my favourite things about Phantom Menace is how heartless he is towards Maul, he’s really testing him to see if he’s strong enough to serve him - it’s complete self-interest. Just like how he tests Luke in Return of the Jedi (but he isn’t prepared for Luke).

Oh dear this is what Star Wars has become. Bringing back a beloved villain, just to make a complete mockery out of him.

I’ve always thought Palpatine was comically, singly faceted evil. And I love the character just that way.

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voltwaffle said:

The Skywalker family is completely dead and gone and the Emperor’s granddaughter takes the Skywalker name.

So wait, is Star Wars really the Saga of Palpatine? %^%&& Disney in their #@4%^!!!

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

So wait, is Star Wars really the Saga of Palpatine? %^%&& Disney in their #@4%^!!!

One hundred percent. This isn’t the Skywalker saga, it’s the Palpatine saga. He’s the only character to be continuously present in all eras of this story and is also the only one that actually succeeds in some of his efforts.

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voltwaffle said:

theprequelsrule said:

So wait, is Star Wars really the Saga of Palpatine? %^%&& Disney in their #@4%^!!!

One hundred percent. This isn’t the Skywalker saga, it’s the Palpatine saga. He’s the only character to be continuously present in all eras of this story and is also the only one that actually succeeds in some of his efforts.

Well, Ben Solo is technically also a Skywalker so it depends on how you see it. As messy as TROS was I’m at least glad that they acknowledged that the “Skywalker saga” has to actually focus somewhat on at least one Skywalker as opposed to just new characters. Although flawed in execution, now we can at least follow a continuous Skywalker-related through-line throughout the nine “saga” films.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.