- Time
- Post link
If you disagree, totally cool, this kind of thing is subjective, but that’s just where I stand.
Obviously I do, but thanks for taking the time.
No worries, likewise.
The Person in Question
Ranking the Star Wars films — Page 139
- Time
- Post link
Empire basically establishes the entire nature of the force and the dark side.
Care to elaborate? Genuinely interested as to your reasoning.
Everything we know about the force pretty much comes from Yoda’s training of Luke. It wasn’t explored too deeply in ANH. Unless you’re counting midichlorians, which were pretty much abandoned after the first appearance in TPM, everything about the force sticks to what we got in Empire.
- Time
- Post link
I never understand when people say that the prequels had great world-building. Sure there was some, but it wasn’t great.
World-building can only be as interesting as the characters inhabiting that world, and all of the characters in the Prequel trilogy are so wooden. We see Mos Eisley for only a few minutes in Star Wars but it’s far more interesting and exciting than the Coruscant senate chamber.
- Time
- Post link
Hahaha YES. The comedy I’ve been waiting for.
All three prequels above ESB. And we’re supposed to ignore these posts. Lol.
I mean you think the ST are good films so if we’re gonna start taking cheap shots two can play at that game.
I don’t rank them above ESB so your point is irrelevant.
Right. I forgot dissenting opinions aren’t allowed. We should just all post an identical ranking over and over again to stilt discussion, because it’s not like this is a forum or anything.
Here’s an actual question for you…why do you consider all three theatrical prequels better than Empire Strikes Back?
If you’re actually wondering why, I’ll bite.
I’m not going to comment on why I think ROTS is better purely because I feel that film has enough defenders as is; I’m sure you disagree with them, but you’ve probably heard arguments for the film time and time again, so there’s no point repeating them. Dumbing it down, I think it’s both visually and emotionally more impactful, while having a more interesting plot and contributing more to the saga’s lore as a whole; but that’s just my opinion.
As for TPM and AOTC being ranked higher?
First of all I want to make one thing clear; I think on a technical level, one based purely on physical filmmaking and nothing else; ESB is undoubtedly the best Star Wars film. Its direction, artistry and dare I say, acting, is unmatched to this day.However, that’s not all I look for in a Star Wars film. I’ve always been more concerned with the overall story of the saga of films I - VI than technical details. You can disagree with this notion and that’s fine, but that’s just my preference.
I think the world-building, the expansion of the lore and the incredibly detailed plot of TPM and AOTC far outweigh that of the OT. Do I think the execution is better? No. The execution of the OT (At least ANH and ESB), is fantastic. The execution of the Prequels? Not so much. But I much prefer an interesting experience over a play by the numbers one; there are plenty of ‘legendary’ films that hit all the technical beats, but few as interesting as the prequels.
I’m not going super in-depth because I’ve spent years on this site frequently just getting trolled for my viewpoints so I don’t want to pump heaps of time into a response, so I’m trying to keep it simple.
Essentially what I’m saying is that everyone pulls different things from Star Wars. Some people are just interested in seeing the best technically made film possible, and that’s totally fine. If we’re judging the films purely on those merits I’d say TFA is better than ROTJ, but that’s not all I personally care about.
I know it gets made fun of a lot but I personally think George’s vision for a one complete story told over six films is incredibly interesting and valuable, and I view all six films as one large piece, so I judge them more on what they add to the overall story than what I do as an individual work of art.
If you disagree, totally cool, this kind of thing is subjective, but that’s just where I stand.
Good post. Interesting to hear a different viewpoint that’s decently well-founded.
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
(It hasn’t happened yet)
- Time
- Post link
I never understand when people say that the prequels had great world-building. Sure there was some, but it wasn’t great.
World-building can only be as interesting as the characters inhabiting that world, and all of the characters in the Prequel trilogy are so wooden. We see Mos Eisley for only a few minutes in Star Wars but it’s far more interesting and exciting than the Coruscant senate chamber.
I think the PT does a good job of world-building, but only on Coruscant. Outside of the boring Senate debates, we see a lot of different, and very interesting in my opinion, locations and settings and none of our characters draw attention to it. The opera scene is a fantastic example from ROTS. It’s tense and eerie, although that’s mainly due to the score and Ian’s performance, and is in a really strange and interesting location. We see a big sprawling night-life, but also a lot of normal hustle and bustle of the big city. Aside from the horrible 50s diner, I think most of the Coruscant scenery is good. The real problem that makes all of that world-building (if you want to call it that) essentially moot is that we never see Coruscant affected by the war or the rise of the Empire. Other than the Temple in flames, which is a great-looking shot, we get nothing.
The Person in Question
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
snooker said:
World-building can only be as interesting as the characters inhabiting that world, and all of the characters in the Prequel trilogy are so wooden. We see Mos Eisley for only a few minutes in Star Wars but it’s far more interesting and exciting than the Coruscant senate chamber.
Agreed. Tatooine as a whole in the first act of SW feels more fleshed out than anything in the prequels which just added that whole awkward Ben-hur slavery / racing pastiche.
- Time
- Post link
I’ve heard the world-building argument before, and I question why go for the prequels in this regard when you can go for any other series with extensive world-building, and is executed better? Such as:
Blade Runner
The Lord of the Rings
Harry Potter
Game of Thrones
And many others. All of these, and the OT, are executed more competently than the PT, and are altogether more interesting. I just don’t buy that world-building argument.
- Time
- Post link
World building is cool, but none of it matters if there aren’t characters you care about. The OT understood that any world building was always in service of the characters and story.
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
The world a main character is in in the beginning of their story should sort of influence their choices.
Luke is a farmboy with aspirations of something greater. Him living in the center of a wide open salt flat helps reinforce this.
Mos Eisley is a sketchy town with weird people, because they’re looking for a sketchy character in that place. If Han Solo was any other sort of character Mos Eisley would NOT be a proper place to meet him.
We meet Lando as an administrator of a mining guild. This goes in complete contrast with his character as established by Han in an earlier scene, “Card player, gambler, scoundrel”. This sets up distrust in Lando from the moment you see him. Which is perfect - because he inevitably betrays the main characters. (It then flips back around, further developing his character and the audience changes their mind about him.)
We meet Obi-Wan in Episode I in a conference room. He isn’t given any personality or likable character traits until after the first action scene “The negotiations were short.” It’s okay to do this, but you should spend time with your characters. If Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon talked a little about the force and set up their characters, we would care a little when they pull out their lightsabers.
We meet Anakin, a good-hearted slaveboy in a similar environment to Mos Eisley. While the difference in his surroundings vs his character could have been an interesting aspect of the story, the script just doesn’t explore that. So him living in Mos Espa or even on Tatooine for that matter dosent influence his character.
Plus, in a trilogy about Anakin, he’s an awfully passive protagonist. He makes no decisions that affect anything (for the first two movies) and when he finally does make a decision it is completely out of character.
George probably thought up a list of locations before writing any of the scripts, and wrote the plot around those locations. That’s what he did for Episode III, at least.
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
This sets up distrust in Lando from the moment you see him. Which is perfect - because he inevitably betrays the main characters.
No, he doesn’t.
He makes a deal, that vader latter changes, to save his friends and the population of his city while handing over one person, whom he doesn’t know.
Despite the deal being “altered”, he still manages to save everyone’s ass. Would stopped Boba Fett and saved Han too if the Lady and the Wookiee weren’t momentarily stupid. 3PO even knew what was up.
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
This sets up distrust in Lando from the moment you see him. Which is perfect - because he inevitably betrays the main characters.
No, he doesn’t.
He flips around, I know, but the world he’s in as opposed to his character sets him up as initially untrustworthy. Making his initial betrayal not seem completely out of nowhere.
- Time
- Post link
This sets up distrust in Lando from the moment you see him. Which is perfect - because he inevitably betrays the main characters.
No, he doesn’t.
He flips around, I know, but the world he’s in as opposed to his character sets him up as initially untrustworthy. Making his initial betrayal not seem completely out of nowhere.
Ah, Yeah, I can go with that.
The “Lando betrayed everyone!” thing is a big peeve of mine.
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
The audience doesn’t know that he had a just reason to ‘betray’ them until after it already happened. We then spend a little bit of time with his character where we realise that absolutely nothing about it was in his control.
EDIT: Yeah, I’m sorry that it came off as that.
- Time
- Post link
This sets up distrust in Lando from the moment you see him. Which is perfect - because he inevitably betrays the main characters.
No, he doesn’t.
He makes a deal, that vader latter changes, to save his friends and the population of his city while handing over one person, whom he doesn’t know.
Despite the deal being “altered”, he still manages to save everyone’s ass. Would stopped Boba Fett and saved Han too if the Lady and the Wookiee weren’t momentarily stupid. 3PO even knew what was up.
Technically I’d still call it a betrayal even if it was rational behavior on his part. I guess betrayal sounds a bit too harsh, so I’d amend it to saying that he deceived our main characters.
The Person in Question
- Time
- Post link
I’m definitely sympathetic to Lando there, but yeah I’d still call that a betrayal.
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
Both are dystopias which by definition rely on being set in a real world that could have once been Earth. A twisted version of our world. Star Wars… is Star Wars. You know?
I like to believe Coruscant was once an Earth-duplicate in its ancient past, like that planet from the TOS episode “Miri”. So for my money, THX 1138 and the original three Indiana Jones films all take place in the SW Galaxy.
- Time
- Post link
Oh yeah, Star Trek has better world-building than the PT too.
- Time
- Post link
Oh yeah, Star Trek has better world-building than the PT too.
I’m tempted to say Trek has better world-building than Star Wars, period.
- Time
- Post link
Oh yeah, Star Trek has better world-building than the PT too.
Star Trek has better world-building than the OT.
The Person in Question
- Time
- Post link
Granted.
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
6 Equilibrium (I’ts a Star wars movie to me.)
What ?
THX 1138 I could understand, but Equilibrium ?
edit: Frink, seriously dude, read the post by Jason, I believe it was written for you. Are you that stupid that less than 24 hours later you keep doing the very same thing you’ve just been warned about ?!? Unbelievable 😕
Mala, you believe wrong - it was written for everyone; in a bid for a bit tolerance and civility - yet also more in hope of encouraging more explanations or reasoning as to why members like and rate certain films more than others.
For example… paja’s post on why he rates Equilibrium as a Star Wars film of sorts. We may or may not agree - though paja has at least put over why, and fair play to him for doing so, it’s something to think about and also adds to the thread conversation (and Equilibrium is a film I’ll be now re-watching again soon).
Ryan-SWI’s post explaining why he rates the PT above others (in certain areas) is another - in what he is looking for from his viewing of the films - is another example.
And please lay off calling/questioning fellow members stupid etc - thank you.
A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…
Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
‘How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com
A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)
… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.
- Time
- Post link
There’s a Theory that expands this. (Equilibrium takes place a very long time ago in a galaxy far, far away)
“Equilibrium is set in the distant past of the Star Wars universe. The Clerics (quasi-religious order of warriors who believe in suppressing emotion in order to ensure peace) are an early, evil version of the Jedi Order. The Sith began as a rebellion against the Clerics: compared with the emotionally suppressed society of Equilibrium, the Sith creed (“Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me”) actually seems quite reasonable.” - TV tropes
Hum… why not, only issue is that Equilibirum makes explicit references to Earth art and past history, which is inconsistent with the very first frame of every SW movie. But it’s interesting. You should watch THX 1138, original cut or even the SE cut (with cgi that kinda tie Lucas first movie with Kamino… not a joke !).
If we use non official SW movies, then my ranking would be:
- ANH
- TESB
- Dark Crystal (set in a very, very, very, very distant past, dealing with the consequences of the original kyber crystal)
- ROTJ
- ROTS
- TPM
- TLJ
- AOTC
- TFA
- R1
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
From better to worse:
Star Wars
The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
The Last Jedi
The Force Awakens
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith
- Time
- Post link
Adopting a star system, because after another OT/ST watch-through I’ve decided I have too many ties for a straight list to be practical. No surprises here if you’ve paid any attention to my other posts; I haven’t radically shaken up my opinion on anything. I just think this reflects my feelings better than a proper ranking.
★★★★★
Star Wars
The Empire Strikes Back
★★★★
The Force Awakens
The Last Jedi
★★★
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
★★
The Phantom Menace
★
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith
- Time
- Post link
Adopting a star system, because after another OT/ST watch-through I’ve decided I have too many ties for a straight list to be practical. No surprises here if you’ve paid any attention to my other posts; I haven’t radically shaken up my opinion on anything. I just think this reflects my feelings better than a proper ranking.
★★★★★
Star Wars
The Empire Strikes Back★★★★
The Force Awakens
The Last Jedi★★★
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One★★
The Phantom Menace★
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith
Almost exactly mine, but I include half-stars, putting TLJ at 4.5 and thusly above TFA, and both ROTJ and R1 at 3.5, but the rest are spot on.
.