Should Dave Filoni Run The Creative Team at LucasFilm — Page 2

pittrek said:

By the way nobody noticed that the company in the title is LucasFlim? People used to complain about these things

Now corrected - thanks mate.

I’ll be real honest, I have never understood why people praise Dave Filoni as being if not the best, one of the best creators working at Lucasfilm. I thought Clone Wars was a very hit and miss show, Rebels was fine, but could’ve been better, and he’s directed the worst episodes of The Mandalorian. I’m not a fan of the guy, and I’m also not a fan of how he constantly puts Ahsoka Tano in nearly everything he is involved in (a character that I’m also not much of a fan of). This is just my opinion, and I understand that many will disagree with me, but I just can’t get behind him.

DuracellEnergizer said:

I think Filoni and Zahn are very much alike; they write very, very good fanfiction, but still succumb to pitfalls which come with the territory.

I’m not as familiar with Timothy Zahn’s work, as I have not read his trilogy, but people love him too. I can see why, as Thrawn is a great character/villain.

I didn’t know there was already a thread on Dave Filoni! I’d have posted about him using other creatives’ original work and using it in his own content, all whilst making many needless retcons and alterations to them in here, if I had.

I should read the Indexes on here more! 😃

Dave Filoni retcons in Star Wars; in The 2008 Clone Wars messes up continuity or how Lucas is still destroying star wars thread

^ includes the EU, Legends, Canon, the Prequel Trilogy, 2003 Clone Wars, 2008 The Clone Wars, Rebels, Bad Batch, Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett, Tales of the Jedi, an “in general” section, and also Ahsoka.

I do like Filoni more than not, though for me the homages and fan service is throughout his work is getting old. The need for him to refer to and revere certain past events and characters is something he seems unable to move on from. Stories and characters do not seem to be able to live in the moment, or for the future; almost relying on the audience reaction for love of those memberberries to illicit some emotion, because the current story being told does not. And of course, his noted reluctance to kill off certain characters, no matter the situation.

For me Filoni’s strengths in animation are also revealing some shortcomings in live action. Stilted dialogue, with occasional profound and “learning moment” statements, long pauses and looking into the distance, a lack of emotion on many characters (in a bid to be more stoic or noble?), 2D characterisation of the mass ranks (both villains and heroes below the main protagonist and antagonists), a “stage direction” feeling to some scenes. With more a “flat look and experience” to some action sequences filmed on The Volume. Not just on Ahsoka (at the half-way point), but also seasons 2 and 3 The Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett.

But for fans of his animated work, Ahsoka (aka Rebels season 5), or for fans who love memberberries and fan service, it is probably an enjoyable and positive experience. And for the causal fan, there are some good moments peppered in amongst a fairly mediocre and run of the mill modern Star Wars show so far, with Sabine and the two villain standing out.

Edit:

One thing I don’t understand is why the likes of Henry Gilroy, Steven Melching, Simon Kinberg, Drew Z. Greenberg, Scott Murphy, and others don’t seem too get much of a mention or credit by fans of the series. Or by Dave Filoni himself when he talks about The Clone Wars, Rebels or animated content.

Although I guess this is not much different when Filoni uses EU characters or events, and doesn’t talk about or credit the original creatives from there, either.

Some of the main creative roll credits for those series:

TCW: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0458290/fullcredits
Rebels: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2930604/fullcredits
Resistance: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8336340/fullcredits
Bad Batch: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12708542/fullcredits

I’d like to see him in a Kevin Feige-ish role. Just have him be “the idea guy” for everyone, and then write/direct things on occasion. Sounds like they’re heading in that direction anyways.

In this recent fluff piece about Ahsoka season 1, it is revealed that Dave Filoni is now the “Chief Creative Officer of Lucasfilm”:
 

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/11/star-wars-ahsoka-dave-filoni

“Creator Dave Filoni, Rosario Dawson, Hayden Christensen, and Natasha Liu Bordizzo reveal how their show altered the galactic landscape.”
 

Dave Filoni has a new mission in the Star Wars universe after guiding Rosario Dawson’s Force-wielding hero to distant celestial realms in the first season of Ahsoka. The writer-producer-director, who started out working alongside George Lucas on the animated Clone Wars show nearly two decades ago, has ascended to a new position at Lucasfilm—one that will give him input into all the galactic storytelling going forward.

“Now I’m what’s called chief creative officer of Lucasfilm,” Filoni tells Vanity Fair, which places him into the development process much earlier and in a much more expansive capacity than his previous advisory duties. “In the past, in a lot of projects I would be brought into, I would see it after it had already developed a good ways” he said.

“In this new role, it’s opened up to basically everything that’s going on. When we’re planning the future of what we’re doing now, I’m involved at the inception phase.”

and later in the article:

“I’m not telling people what to do,” Filoni says. “But I do feel I’m trying to help them tell the best story that they want to tell. I need to be a help across the galaxy here, like a part of a Jedi Council almost.” He described his responsibilities as understanding the intent of the filmmakers and being a resource to them, based on his mentorship under Lucas himself, and his years spent steering The Clone Wars, Rebels, and Ahsoka. “Literally, hours now of Star Wars storytelling I have done,” he said, before pausing to rethink his syntax. “See…I even phrased that like Yoda.”

“To truly help filmmakers, it was really important for me to experience it firsthand,” he says. “I can also lend a perspective on the challenges that telling these stories will present. I feel more capable of actually being helpful outside of just saying, ‘Well, Jedi are like this, and Sith are like this…’”

 
I think he is a better ideas man than a writer. And also better when it comes to animation than live action, although that may be a little harsh as Ahsoka is his first solo project? The Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett was alongside Favreau?

Maybe he’ll hire more creatives willing to take risks with their content, that has something to actually say with their stories? Not slavishly adhere to fan service or memberberries at any given opportunity, or do more mystery boxes or off-screen explanations of anticipated and significant story points? No more of the plentiful vagueness littered throughout the story, or cutting away just when a moment or event is actually engaging or holding an interest.

To “show, don’t tell” (or ignore) more? I feel like I’m going into “rant mode”, so I’ll stop here.

Maybe we’ll get more Andor level quality content, and less low-mid level inane content that he and Favreau have put out themselves of late? Although considering many fans seem to be wanting new fresh takes on Star Wars, and not rehashed nostalgia, Filoni does appear to be a strange choice for this CCO role.

I suppose we’ll have to wait and see.

Filoni managed to polish the turd that was the Prequel Trilogy. Most anyone could’ve done that. I knew this new emperor had no more clothes than the last when Rebels aired for the first time, introducing such ingenious concepts as the spinning lightsaber which doubles as a one-person helicopter.

Andor is what Rebels should’ve been. Grittier, more grounded, and with all the Jedi characters dead, turned to the dark side, or otherwise incapacitated by the end to properly explain their absence from the OT time period.

honestabe said:

I will always “enjoy” how Rebels completely delegitimized the OT. In the OT, we are told the Jedi are long gone because Vader wiped them out. In Rebels, we have Jedi force users, and force using trees, whales, and wolves popping up on every street corner of the Star Wars galaxy.

I’m not opposed to the idea that Jedi aside from Ben and Yoda escaped the purge. But they should all be hiding/operating covertly. But Rebels is just a silly kids show, and you gotta dangle a lightsaber in the kids’ faces to keep them engaged, 'cause Star Wars, right?

Every single show where Filoni had some involvement was mediocre at best, and totally bad at worst (except for the first season of The Mandalorian, which I genuinely liked). The Clone Wars undermines the Prequels, Rebels undermines the Original Trilogy, Tales of the Jedi was pure fan service, and I didn’t even bother to watch any other of the animated shows. In my opinion, the best content from Disney Star Wars is precisely the one Filoni is not involved with.

I still laugh every time a TCW fan tries to defend the show and Filoni. “Oh yes, TCW is the best piece of Star Wars since the Original Trilogy. Though, the first two seasons are totally bad, and even though the rest of the show is better than the first two seasons, there are still a lot of bad and skipable arcs. But guaranteed, the seventh season is a masterpiece, except 3/4 of it.”

Star Wars: The Clone Wars Does Not Hold Up (Part 1) : a 2 hour YouTube video from Sheev Talks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwWUgh9lbb8
 

The video not only talks about The Clone Wars, but also touches on Lucas and Filoni, the underwhelming Prequels, fans claiming that the animated material improves the PT, fan perceptions in general, characterisations in TCW and other animated stories vs characterisations in the films. Plus many characters not really evolving over the series’ run. It also features several arcs from the TCW series, some very popular stories with fans, and why they may not hold up, and the number of logic issues within.

There are also a number of ideas to try and improve the series, and ask questions why certain characters and events a feature in TCW so fleetingly or are not given the opportunity to shine.
 

Yep. 2 hours. I know. Although the video is balanced, it isn’t your average toxic YouTube video or hate filled FDM $$$ venture. It highlights the positives of TCW where relevant, there are many insights and overall they are well thought out and argued, even if you personally may not agree with some of them.

Sheev Talks states this video took around a year to complete. Going on the insights, research, and the depth covered in the video, with the length too, I believe him!

Star Wars: The Clone Wars Still Doesn’t Hold Up (Part 2) : 2 hour and 48 minute YouTube video from Sheev Talks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_fAJe_a3JY

He is also the guy who did this significantly shorter video below on Dave Filoni, and along with a few others recently did a highly satisfying takedown on Star Wars Theory’s claims:
 

The Problem With Dave Filoni : a 25 minute YouTube video from Sheev Talks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWouW4U10j0

“Dave Filoni is a personal hero of mine, having written some of my favorite stories of all time, but that doesn’t mean he’s without his faults. Before you immediately dismiss me and go back to worshipping the ground he walks on, I ask that you hear me out.”

Ahsoka and the Crimes of Dave Filoni : a 67 minute YouTube video from Working Jellyfish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgtjgKR95wo

“Well … this is awkward, but not unexpected. Join me on a deep dive of the Ahsoka series as we explore the crimes of Dave Filoni. Get ready for some salty criticism.”

(I don’t agree with his issues with TLJ or the so called issues with “feminist agendas”, though when the focus is on Filoni and Ahsoka it does hit the discerning and perceptive spot. To me, anyway.)

Just a handful of “deep dive” long form videos highlighting a number of the issues with some of Dave Filoni’s work.