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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 161

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Valheru_84 said:

Mrebo said:

Just to note, Val, the actress is Vietnamese.

Ah k, my mistake. I was under the impression she was Chinese.

Either way, an attempt to appeal to Asian audiences was definitely a factor in casting her, which I don’t have a problem with. Say what you want about the character and the subplot but Kelly Marie Tran did a very good job in her portrayal of Rose

No offense, kid, but I don’t think you know how to boil water.

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The so called Chinese Overlords were the ones who reduced Finn’s visibility in TFA marketing so they’re probably not going to be happy either way.

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I thought Rose’s introductory scene was excellent, the way the dynamics changed between her and Finn it was like a mini movie itself.

If you were going to run a little acting class and wanted a two person scene for your students to try as an exercise you could do a lot worse.

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Matt.F said:

I thought Rose’s introductory scene was excellent, the way the dynamics changed between her and Finn it was like a mini movie itself.

If you were going to run a little acting class and wanted a two person scene for your students to try as an exercise you could do a lot worse.

I agree. Rose’s introduction scene was, to me, one of the best scenes in the film. I found her to be much more interesting than Rey. Sacrilege maybe, but Rey is becoming a bit one-dimensional. Maybe that will change in the next film.

I also hope they give Rose a bigger and more substantial role in the story next time. They’ve established her as someone who steps up and gets involved when she sees something wrong, naïveté be damned. She’s a bit like 1977 Luke that way. The character has a lot to offer in a bigger & deeper role and I think Ms Tran is certainly up to the task.

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 (Edited)

I found this take on Canto Bight scenes, with Rose’s effect on Finn and his journey in the film - going from Finn to being mainly concerned for his friend Rey, all the way to committing to the Rebel cause - to be of interest - and had some insight on events which I hadn’t considered during the first couple of viewings…

https://i.redd.it/lrjogkba1c701.jpg

(that’s not to say that message could have been made a little clearer and some of the scenes didn’t play too well)

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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DrDre said:

Anchorhead said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

Well said, mate.

Not well said. As long as debates are civil, any subject should be open for discussion. I don’t tell anyone else what they should or should not write about, and I expect the same courtesy.

Neither did I. In fact, I specifically said feel free to dissect and rant. My point was to occasionally give some thought to taking a break from trying to beat the franchise and the fans who may not agree with you.

…It has been suggested by Jason, that too many negative posts allways warrent moderator action. I obviously feel this is not in the best interests of an open forum with a free flow of ideas, but also feel this is a bit disingenuous, considering the mostly negative threads on the prequels and special edition changes on this forum.

Actually, what I posted was… (and the full post can be found here - http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1156598)

oojason said:

An issue for anyone trying to read through this thread most likely - whether they agree or disagree - whatever their stance. Most topics on the site with seemingly endless repeated and circular negative content will eventually result in a mod trying address the issue therein.

Let’s not put words into the mouths of others, nor take them out of the context in which they were used. Ok.

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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 (Edited)

oojason said:

DrDre said:

Anchorhead said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

Well said, mate.

Not well said. As long as debates are civil, any subject should be open for discussion. I don’t tell anyone else what they should or should not write about, and I expect the same courtesy.

Neither did I. In fact, I specifically said feel free to dissect and rant. My point was to occasionally give some thought to taking a break from trying to beat the franchise and the fans who may not agree with you.

…It has been suggested by Jason, that too many negative posts allways warrent moderator action. I obviously feel this is not in the best interests of an open forum with a free flow of ideas, but also feel this is a bit disingenuous, considering the mostly negative threads on the prequels and special edition changes on this forum.

Actually, what I posted was… (and the full post can be found here - http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1156598)

oojason said:

An issue for anyone trying to read through this thread most likely - whether they agree or disagree - whatever their stance. Most topics on the site with seemingly endless repeated and circular negative content will eventually result in a mod trying address the issue therein.

Let’s not put words into the mouths of others, nor take them out of the context in which they were used. Ok.

The problem with this reasoning is, that:

  1. As far as I can tell only those that disagree with the criticisms have expressed their frustration with what they apparently percieve to be endless repeated and circular negative content.

  2. The endless repeated and circular negative content valuation is entirely subjective IMO.

  3. The endless repeated and circular negative content is inaccurate IMO, as these debates involve two sides of the equation, which by extension must imply there’s endless repeated and circular positive content also.

  4. I’m not the only poster who has expressed frustration with this in my view one sided approach. Several very eloquent posters have indicated they too feel the same way. These opinions are apparently ignored, in favour of the complaints by those posters with positive opinions of the film.

  5. Most if not all toxic discussions are based on one side disrespecting the other with statements like “I can’t understand how anyone can like this movie”, “RJ has destroyed Star Wars”, or “First they complain about a lack of originality, and now it’s too original”. So, it’s not really about the positivity or negativity of the opinions towards the film, that are expressed, but how they are expressed, in most cases attacking the other group of fans.

  6. Your post fails to address the apparent bias towards percieved endless repeated and circular negative content as opposed to percieved endless repeated and circular positive content. Aside from the lack of support in the forum rules, why is only negative content singled out? The forum rules restrict themselves to bad behaviour, and logically don’t put any restrictions on content, unless inflammatory or profane, unless the argument is, that negative opinions are in of themselves inflammatory.

I’m sorry to keep banging on about this, but I would like to get some clarification on, whether there indeed are restrictions on content, as you seem to suggest, no matter how mild, and if so, how these restrictions are reflected in the forum rules?

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 (Edited)

DrDre said:

oojason said:

DrDre said:

Anchorhead said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

Well said, mate.

Not well said. As long as debates are civil, any subject should be open for discussion. I don’t tell anyone else what they should or should not write about, and I expect the same courtesy.

Neither did I. In fact, I specifically said feel free to dissect and rant. My point was to occasionally give some thought to taking a break from trying to beat the franchise and the fans who may not agree with you.

…It has been suggested by Jason, that too many negative posts allways warrent moderator action. I obviously feel this is not in the best interests of an open forum with a free flow of ideas, but also feel this is a bit disingenuous, considering the mostly negative threads on the prequels and special edition changes on this forum.

Actually, what I posted was… (and the full post can be found here - http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1156598)

oojason said:

An issue for anyone trying to read through this thread most likely - whether they agree or disagree - whatever their stance. Most topics on the site with seemingly endless repeated and circular negative content will eventually result in a mod trying address the issue therein.

Let’s not put words into the mouths of others, nor take them out of the context in which they were used. Ok.

The problem with this reasoning is, that:

  1. As far as I can tell only those that disagree with the criticisms have expressed their frustration with what they apparently percieve to be endless repeated and circular negative content.

  2. The endless repeated and circular negative content valuation is entirely subjective IMO.

  3. The endless repeated and circular negative content is IMO inaccurate, as these debates involve two sides of the equation, which by extension must imply there’s endless repeated and circular positive content also.

  4. I’m not the only poster who has expressed frustration with this in my view one sided approach. Several very eloquent posters have indicated they too feel the same way. These opinions are apparently ignored, in favour of the complaints by those posters with positive opinions of the film.

  5. Most if not all toxic discussions are based on one side disrespecting the other with statements like “I can’t understand how anyone can like this movie”, “RJ has destroyed Star Wars”, or “First they complain about a lack of originality, and now it’s too original”. So, it’s not really about the positivity or negativity of the opinions towards the film, that are expressed, but how they are expressed.

  6. Your post fails to address the apparent bias towards percieved endless repeated and circular negative content as opposed to percieved endless repeated and circular positive content. Aside from the lack of support in the forum rules, why is only negative content singled out? The forum rules restrict themselves to bad behaviour, and logically don’t put any restrictions on content, unless inflamatory or profane.

No, the problem is that you are sidestepping the issue and ignoring putting words into others mouths and taking them out of context.

All of these posts from your reaction to a moderator posting ‘By all means feel free to vent, deconstruct, debate, rage, etc. I do it occasionally myself. It’s what makes this forum work. However, maybe give some serious thought to focusing on what you like. The stuff we don’t like about the franchise isn’t going away.’ - wow.
 

Now, as not to derail the thread further - feel free to PM with any concerns you may have.

 

Back on topic…

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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Time

oojason said:

I found this take on Canto Bight scenes, with Rose’s effect on Finn and his journey in the film - going from Finn to being mainly concerned for his friend Rey, all the way to committing to the Rebel cause - to be of interest - and had some insight on events which I hadn’t considered during the first couple of viewings…

https://i.redd.it/lrjogkba1c701.jpg

(that’s not to say that message could have been made a little clearer and some of the scenes didn’t play too well)

I have to give it another watch. There are some things I totally missed. I don’t remember Phasma saying much of anything beyond “welcome back” (or something like that). I clearly missed Finn proudly proclaiming himself a Rebel. I think, for me at least, the film was very busy and lacked the narrative flow of the OT or RO. It became a bit of work to follow it. There seems to be more there than I caught initially.

Forum Moderator
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oojason said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

DrDre said:

Anchorhead said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

Well said, mate.

Not well said. As long as debates are civil, any subject should be open for discussion. I don’t tell anyone else what they should or should not write about, and I expect the same courtesy.

Neither did I. In fact, I specifically said feel free to dissect and rant. My point was to occasionally give some thought to taking a break from trying to beat the franchise and the fans who may not agree with you.

…It has been suggested by Jason, that too many negative posts allways warrent moderator action. I obviously feel this is not in the best interests of an open forum with a free flow of ideas, but also feel this is a bit disingenuous, considering the mostly negative threads on the prequels and special edition changes on this forum.

Actually, what I posted was… (and the full post can be found here - http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1156598)

oojason said:

An issue for anyone trying to read through this thread most likely - whether they agree or disagree - whatever their stance. Most topics on the site with seemingly endless repeated and circular negative content will eventually result in a mod trying address the issue therein.

Let’s not put words into the mouths of others, nor take them out of the context in which they were used. Ok.

The problem with this reasoning is, that:

  1. As far as I can tell only those that disagree with the criticisms have expressed their frustration with what they apparently percieve to be endless repeated and circular negative content.

  2. The endless repeated and circular negative content valuation is entirely subjective IMO.

  3. The endless repeated and circular negative content is IMO inaccurate, as these debates involve two sides of the equation, which by extension must imply there’s endless repeated and circular positive content also.

  4. I’m not the only poster who has expressed frustration with this in my view one sided approach. Several very eloquent posters have indicated they too feel the same way. These opinions are apparently ignored, in favour of the complaints by those posters with positive opinions of the film.

  5. Most if not all toxic discussions are based on one side disrespecting the other with statements like “I can’t understand how anyone can like this movie”, “RJ has destroyed Star Wars”, or “First they complain about a lack of originality, and now it’s too original”. So, it’s not really about the positivity or negativity of the opinions towards the film, that are expressed, but how they are expressed.

  6. Your post fails to address the apparent bias towards percieved endless repeated and circular negative content as opposed to percieved endless repeated and circular positive content. Aside from the lack of support in the forum rules, why is only negative content singled out? The forum rules restrict themselves to bad behaviour, and logically don’t put any restrictions on content, unless inflamatory or profane.

No, the problem is that you are sidestepping the issue and ignoring putting words into others mouths and taking them out of context.

All of these posts from your reaction to a moderator posting ‘By all means feel free to vent, deconstruct, debate, rage, etc. I do it occasionally myself. It’s what makes this forum work. However, maybe give some serious thought to focusing on what you like. The stuff we don’t like about the franchise isn’t going away.’ - wow.
 

Now, as not to derail the thread further - feel free to PM with any concerns you may have.

 

Back on topic…

PM sent.

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I liked Rose up until she derailed Finn’s heroic sacrifice for a lousy line and a smooch. Talk about desperate!

Honestly, I liked her a lot up to that point, even if the sub plot was long and contrived. She was a likeable, capable and cute character.

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 (Edited)

I saw her crashing his attempt at suicide\sacrifice as more along the lines of her version Patton’s remarks before leaving for Africa in WWII ; “No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country.”
She’s just not as blunt about it.

She clearly has feelings for him but she also explains her reasoning with something along the lines of that’s how we’re going to win.

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I bet the difference of opinion that people have over Rose saving Finn largely comes down to whether they believe that there was a chance of Finn disabling the gun.

Those who viewed it as a sacrifice with a chance of disabling the weapon probably have issues with Rose. Those that viewed it as a pointless attack with no chance of disabling the weapon are probably okay with Rose, since she prevented a senseless waste of life.

I’m torn on it. I don’t think it’s well communicated that his attack would have no effect, only that it’s a suicide mission.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

I bet the difference of opinion that people have over Rose saving Finn largely comes down to whether they believe that there was a chance of Finn disabling the gun.

Those who viewed it as a sacrifice with a chance of disabling the weapon probably have issues with Rose. Those that viewed it as a pointless attack with no chance of disabling the weapon are probably okay with Rose, since she prevented a senseless waste of life.

I’m torn on it. I don’t think it’s well communicated that his attack would have no effect, only that it’s a suicide mission.

I believe he would’ve disabled the weapon, and that Poe only called off the attack because there was no chance to make it out alive. But that wasn’t Finn’s plan. He was willing and was fully committed to dying in order to save everyone. Only…

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NeverarGreat said:

I bet the difference of opinion that people have over Rose saving Finn largely comes down to whether they believe that there was a chance of Finn disabling the gun.

Those who viewed it as a sacrifice with a chance of disabling the weapon probably have issues with Rose. Those that viewed it as a pointless attack with no chance of disabling the weapon are probably okay with Rose, since she prevented a senseless waste of life.

I’m torn on it. I don’t think it’s well communicated that his attack would have no effect, only that it’s a suicide mission.

I definitely got the impression that this was it, their last chance, and just maybe this will work.

And if that is the case (which is how I read it) then Rose’s act was pretty selfish and shortsighted.

Anchorhead mentioned the (awesome) Patton quote but there is not a good chance of convincing me that it was intended to channel that. It works for him though.

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ExNihilo said:

NeverarGreat said:

I bet the difference of opinion that people have over Rose saving Finn largely comes down to whether they believe that there was a chance of Finn disabling the gun.

Those who viewed it as a sacrifice with a chance of disabling the weapon probably have issues with Rose. Those that viewed it as a pointless attack with no chance of disabling the weapon are probably okay with Rose, since she prevented a senseless waste of life.

I’m torn on it. I don’t think it’s well communicated that his attack would have no effect, only that it’s a suicide mission.

I definitely got the impression that this was it, their last chance, and just maybe this will work.

And if that is the case (which is how I read it) then Rose’s act was pretty selfish and shortsighted.

Anchorhead mentioned the (awesome) Patton quote but there is not a good chance of convincing me that it was intended to channel that. It works for him though.

I don’t agree with how you interpreted their chances. but going along with your thinking for now… Why aren’t you pissed at Poe then since he called off ‘their only chance of wining’ ?

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dahmage said:

ExNihilo said:

NeverarGreat said:

I bet the difference of opinion that people have over Rose saving Finn largely comes down to whether they believe that there was a chance of Finn disabling the gun.

Those who viewed it as a sacrifice with a chance of disabling the weapon probably have issues with Rose. Those that viewed it as a pointless attack with no chance of disabling the weapon are probably okay with Rose, since she prevented a senseless waste of life.

I’m torn on it. I don’t think it’s well communicated that his attack would have no effect, only that it’s a suicide mission.

I definitely got the impression that this was it, their last chance, and just maybe this will work.

And if that is the case (which is how I read it) then Rose’s act was pretty selfish and shortsighted.

Anchorhead mentioned the (awesome) Patton quote but there is not a good chance of convincing me that it was intended to channel that. It works for him though.

I don’t agree with how you interpreted their chances. but going along with your thinking for now… Why aren’t you pissed at Poe then since he called off ‘their only chance of wining’ ?

Who said I wasn’t?

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ExNihilo said:

dahmage said:

ExNihilo said:

NeverarGreat said:

I bet the difference of opinion that people have over Rose saving Finn largely comes down to whether they believe that there was a chance of Finn disabling the gun.

Those who viewed it as a sacrifice with a chance of disabling the weapon probably have issues with Rose. Those that viewed it as a pointless attack with no chance of disabling the weapon are probably okay with Rose, since she prevented a senseless waste of life.

I’m torn on it. I don’t think it’s well communicated that his attack would have no effect, only that it’s a suicide mission.

I definitely got the impression that this was it, their last chance, and just maybe this will work.

And if that is the case (which is how I read it) then Rose’s act was pretty selfish and shortsighted.

Anchorhead mentioned the (awesome) Patton quote but there is not a good chance of convincing me that it was intended to channel that. It works for him though.

I don’t agree with how you interpreted their chances. but going along with your thinking for now… Why aren’t you pissed at Poe then since he called off ‘their only chance of wining’ ?

Who said I wasn’t?

well no one seems to blame Poe, they blame Rose. Can you see why this seems odd?

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dahmage said:

ExNihilo said:

dahmage said:

ExNihilo said:

NeverarGreat said:

I bet the difference of opinion that people have over Rose saving Finn largely comes down to whether they believe that there was a chance of Finn disabling the gun.

Those who viewed it as a sacrifice with a chance of disabling the weapon probably have issues with Rose. Those that viewed it as a pointless attack with no chance of disabling the weapon are probably okay with Rose, since she prevented a senseless waste of life.

I’m torn on it. I don’t think it’s well communicated that his attack would have no effect, only that it’s a suicide mission.

I definitely got the impression that this was it, their last chance, and just maybe this will work.

And if that is the case (which is how I read it) then Rose’s act was pretty selfish and shortsighted.

Anchorhead mentioned the (awesome) Patton quote but there is not a good chance of convincing me that it was intended to channel that. It works for him though.

I don’t agree with how you interpreted their chances. but going along with your thinking for now… Why aren’t you pissed at Poe then since he called off ‘their only chance of wining’ ?

Who said I wasn’t?

well no one seems to blame Poe, they blame Rose. Can you see why this seems odd?

I can see that you are trying to read into what I said with something I didn’t say.

I think Poe made the wrong call and he was a coward.

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liamnotneeson said:

Valheru_84 said:

Mrebo said:

Just to note, Val, the actress is Vietnamese.

Ah k, my mistake. I was under the impression she was Chinese.

Say what you want about the character and the subplot but Kelly Marie Tran did a very good job in her portrayal of Rose

No argument there, I don’t think anyone has a problem with her acting abilities, but it’s too bad she wasn’t given more to work with.

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In real life, people do dumb things. In mythology, people do dumb things. In fiction, people do dumb things.

Here is my take on Rose saving Finn. Finn was doing a dumb thing and Rose did a dumb thing to stop him. It doesn’t matter if Finn could have succeeded. Rose’s part in that scene is to prevent Finn from dying. It is part of the trilogy. The purpose of Rose in this film was to take Finn from a rebel ally to a full on rebel. She is a rebel and sees Finn as one of he heroes, not realizing, as we do, that he has his own agenda. She sees him leaving and doesn’t see why and thinks he is deserting. He kind of is. But the great thing about Rose is that she is a full fledged character herself. She is technician who just lost her sister. He loyalty to the cause brings Finn around to the cause. His character development was to stop running and stick around. By Crait, he becomes willing to sacrifice himself to save others and become the hero Rose thought he already was. While the Canto Bight sequence and the infiltration of the Star Destroyer ultimately fail, thanks to them hiring DJ instead of who they were sent to hire, the sequence turns Finn from an accidental hero into a true hero. Rose saving him prevents the waste of his life and preserves him as a hero for IX. It also provided an interesting side character.

In the same way, Poe’s part of the story turns him from a heroic rebel into a heroic rebel leader. In TFA and the start of TLJ, Poe is willing to take risks to gain a victory. He doesn’t understand about conserving your resources or making the tough decision to withdraw and fight another day. Leia and Holdo know this lesson well and push Poe to teach him that lesson. He learns it. Instead of trying to fight to the end on Crait, he looks for a way out and a way to fight another day. He went from a reckless hero to a leader hero. He’s probably still reckless, but he has learned a valuable lesson. It is ironic that in light of Carrier Fisher’s death, that his character is ready to take over for her as leader of the rebellion. Even the dialog moves things that direction.

Rey faced her greatest fears. She was waiting for her parents. If what Kylo said is true (and I’m pretty sure it is), then she has to face that they were never coming back. She had turned to Han as a mentor and now turns to Luke, but Luke turns her away. He cannot help her and she must help herself. She goes from waiting and relying on parental/mentor figures to standing on her own. Since Luke will not teach her, she takes the ancient texts so she can teach herself. She sees a vision through the force of Kylo and thinks she knows what it means and finds out it did not mean what she thought it did. He did not turn. By the end, she is alone and okay with that.

And Kylo. He is the Skywalker in this trilogy. Who can say what his fate is but in this film we saw him go from being even more torn inside than ever because he killed is father to firmly on a path when he decides to kill Snoke. He also saw a vision of Rey and thought he knew what it meant. But she did not join him and he is left alone as Supreme Leader. Now what is path is, I can’t say. But as a follower of Darth Vader, it is currently a dark path.

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This is a good Twitter thread that basically reflects my opinions on Luke in TLJ that I’ve tried to express in this thread. Here’s some selected snippets:

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950394363384807424

Rewatch The Empire Strikes Back and I think it’s apparent that there was no other choice for Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi, given the events of The Force Awakens.

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950395526553333760

Luke is the central mystery of The Force Awakens. The opening sentence of the crawl is “Luke Skywalker has vanished.” The closing shot is Rey having found him. The film is begging us to ask these questions about Luke.

Why are we getting sidetracked by Snoke and Rey’s parents?

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950398185192566784

Here we have the single most powerful Force user in the galaxy forced to cut himself off of every instinct he has for fear he’ll do the galaxy more harm than good. From Luke’s perspective, this abstinence of the Force is heroic. Another Jedi purge becomes impossible.

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950403141811322880

Luke goes to check on Ben and the darkness growing inside him. This wellness check is already filled with self-doubt. Luke, like every creative or heroic person I’ve ever known, suffers from impostor syndrome. Just like Obi-Wan’s.

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950403445701226496

And here he sees a darkness greater than anything he could have ever imagined. And a future where all of his loved ones are killed and the Jedi order he cared about burned to the ground. What happened the last time he was confronted with an image of this?

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950404685118160896

The last time this happened, he was in the Death Star Throne Room and Vader taunted him with this vision of the future and he lost control. He ignited his saber out of instinct and fought. With rage and anger.

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950404686149910528

But he pulled himself back from doing the thing he swore he wouldn’t do: kill his own father. Then he tosses his lightsaber and says, essentially, “kill me if you have to, but I’ll die like a Jedi.”

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950404688322555904

Now, he goes to Ben’s hut and sees that future all over again. And, as before, his saber ignites. And this is startling to him. He’s instantly ashamed of himself and must deal with the consequence of that split-second consideration. We know he’d NEVER kill his nephew. Ben doesn’t

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950406663130857472

And that’s why I love the end of the movie. Luke finally learned from his mistakes. He could stick to his non-violence, but still set an example that would ignite the galaxy. Which is why his saber never touches Ben’s during the fight. It’s 100% evasion.

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950408470846521344

From my perspective, given Luke’s inaction in TFA, this is the ONLY thing that could have been done with him. And why I’ve embraced the arc so much. I love it.

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See, lots of those points are valid points. But lots of them aren’t. And if I have to do mental gymnastics in order to like the movie, then there’s something wrong. I’m sorry, I don’t believe Luke Skywalker would even on instinct ignite his lightsaber to a child that has been corrupted. Hell, in the movie he says no one’s ever truly gone. And he called Kylo Ben, so I think he believes there’s good inside Ben. And there clearly is, TFA made it pretty clear, and I don’t think TLJ took all of it from him, which is another reason why I find it hard to believe that he would be more corrupt than Vader.

About Rey facing her greatest fears… eh I guess that on paper it would be an interesting conflict within her but we have a cave scene for the sake of having a dark side cave, ending up in a somewhat shallow scene. Then we have the reveal scene and puff, no one even mentions that struggle and she seems fine with it. So I don’t believe from what I’ve seen and what was said in the movie that Rey is a character that faced any struggles that would make you really relate to her.

I like the ideas behind Kylo, but at the same time that I think TLJ made him much more interesting, it made him much more boring. I don’t know how to explain really. Maybe I should rewatch the movie, after all it has been almost a month and there’s a lot to process.

I like Rose, except for when she saves Finn, and I really liked Finn and Poe with Holdo and Leia in the movie.

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When Finn gets into kamikaze mode, we see the ram start to tear his skimmer apart. It’s clear he won’t even make it, let alone blow the whole thing up.

Even if he did, there’s no doubt that the FO would find another way in. The goal was just to buy some time to make contact with their allies. They were fucked either way before Luke arrived.

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DominicCobb said:

When Finn gets into kamikaze mode, we see the ram start to tear his skimmer apart. It’s clear he won’t even make it, let alone blow the whole thing up.

Even if he did, there’s no doubt that the FO would find another way in. The goal was just to buy some time to make contact with their allies. They were fucked either way before Luke arrived.

You say these things as if they are certainties, yet they are anything but certain. Rose intercepts Finn’s speeder right before it enters the machine, and they’re crashed almost right beside it. It isn’t clear to me that he wouldn’t make it.

Similarly, it’s a plot point that there’s no other way into the base, at least until Rey uses space magic.

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Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)