This meme or whatever you call it is dumb. Obi-Wan didn’t tell Luke: “hey you’re Dad was an asshole and the Jedi deserve to die.” Yoda never told Luke: “there is no dark side or light side. the jedi were arrogant and wrong”.
This is also a good point.
That ignores the fact that Luke comes back around to the Jedi by the end of the movie. And even if he didn’t, Luke the character being wrongheaded about the Jedi =/= the movie being wrongheaded about the Jedi. When everything shakes out, it’s pretty clear that the movie thinks the Jedi continuing on through Rey is a good thing.
This meme or whatever you call it is dumb. Obi-Wan didn’t tell Luke: “hey you’re Dad was an asshole and the Jedi deserve to die.” Yoda never told Luke: “there is no dark side or light side. the jedi were arrogant and wrong”.
The people who defend these ST movies are no different than the people who defend the prequels. Mental gymnastics and totally ignoring the spirit of the original movies. But hey look it’s Darth Mual with his cool double bladed lightsaber. Er…I mean look it’s Porgs and Kylo Ren with a saber handle! It’s Star Wars duh!
If that is your attitude - then why are you here? To bait or antaognise those on here that do like these films? If so your stay here is going to be a short one.
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“That’s not what the truck looks like” is what’s wrong with how some view Star Wars. The Force can be used to influence minds. That’s the “trick.”
I don’t know what you’re saying. Luke does two things when he enters the palace, he raises his hand and chokes two guys with blatant visual and audio clues - exactly like Vader. Then he goes inside and tries to ‘trick’ Jabba with spoken words - just like Kenobi. Both are distinctive, and they are shown just as they were in the previous two movies. How are you getting the old ‘you don’t need to see his identification’ gag mixed up I don’t know, especially when he does it in the same scene. You think he did the same thing twice?
In the few times I’ve watched TFA this past year, after Rey meets Han, I skip ahead to that last scene. I thought it was done perfectly. I don’t anymore. For me, the emotional depth of that last TFA scene was ruined when it goes from serious to shoulder toss let’s go milk a sea monster in a matter of moments. WTF Rian?
Luke can certainly be dismissive of The Force. After 40 years of what he views as a misguided trust in it, that’s a totally valid and interesting story direction. I just don’t buy that he would flippantly toss aside something that was such a big part of his earlier life. He lost his only family and several friends in the first film, learned more\lost more in the second, then grew emotionally, saved millions of lives, and redeemed Vader in the third.
He could have respectfully handed it back to her and expressed why he dismissed her ideas and her quest. Rian instead went for shock value over depth and emotion. That was very disappointing for me.
I 100% agree with this. I’ve been thinking over the last few days that if Luke simply refused to accept the lightsaber and pushed past Rey, that would have conveyed the same story but with much more dignity and respect.
I don’t recall Luke choking anyone in ROTJ
I thought he was using a Jedi mind trick there.
I agree with Warb. We know what it looks like if someone is choking and that wasn’t what happened in that scene. I have always read the scene as Luke convincing the GGs to go back to their posts and sleep, their hands on their chests in a restrained or passive position.
Really? Even with the guards grabbing their throats and making choking noises? He was obviously force choking.
Pig sounds and hands on chests. Also clear they are not pushed.
Choking sounds with them clutching their throats. It’s very clear choking sounds too and not pig like sound either. Watch the scene again and you’ll see how clear it is that Luke is force choking them. And, if you need more proof, then this is direct from the novel:
Luke raised his hand and pointed at them. Before they could draw their weapons they were clutching their own throats, choking, gasping.
“That’s not what the truck looks like” is what’s wrong with how some view Star Wars. The Force can be used to influence minds. That’s the “trick.”
I don’t know what you’re saying. Luke does two things when he enters the palace, he raises his hand and chokes two guys with blatant visual and audio clues - exactly like Vader. Then he goes inside and tries to ‘trick’ Jabba with spoken words - just like Kenobi. Both are distinctive, and they are shown just as they were in the previous two movies. How are you getting the old ‘you don’t need to see his identification’ gag mixed up I don’t know, especially when he does it in the same scene. You think he did the same thing twice?
I appreciate how obvious it seems to some of you. It is a common phenomenon for people to look at the exact same thing and see totally different things. There are not blatant clues or choking. I won’t be so pedantic to insist Force choking requires a grasping hand with closing fingers, though Vader habitually did that.
Sometimes it behooves a Jedi to use speech in tandem with persuasive Force powers. With lesser minded Gamorreans it’s probably even less called for.
I think this is an instructive dialogue regarding differing perceptions of TLJ and how we deal with each other when we disagree.
The blue elephant in the room.
This meme or whatever you call it is dumb. Obi-Wan didn’t tell Luke: “hey you’re Dad was an asshole and the Jedi deserve to die.” Yoda never told Luke: “there is no dark side or light side. the jedi were arrogant and wrong”.
I also agree with this sentiment. A friend of mine sent that meme to me a few days ago, and while it has what Stephen Colbert would refer to as “truthiness” that might cause others to nod their head in agreement, it really doesn’t hold up under any scrutiny. Kenobi was acting as a watchful guardian, protecting a young boy from harm. Yoda was bidding his time, awaiting a new apprentice. Both were on the run from being butchered, having already lost all of their friends.
None of these circumstances are comparable to Luke.
This is the first time in my 28 years that I’ve even seen it suggested that Luke could’ve been doing anything other than choking the guards. I had no idea there was any disagreement at all about that.
This is the first time in my 28 years that it’s even occurred to me that Luke could’ve been doing anything other than choking the guards. I had no idea there was any disagreement at all about that.
Ditto. We’re way off topic but it’s not vague at all. I hate to cite the novelisation, but just as a quick check it says they were ‘choking and gasping’. It’s not even cryptic since when talks to Bib Fortuna, Jabba calls him a weak minded fool as a direct reference to Luke and Ben arriving at Mos Eisley and using his powers of persuasion. It’s very well defined.
Sometimes it behooves a Jedi to use speech in tandem with persuasive Force powers. With lesser minded Gamorreans it’s probably even less called for.
Speaking of seeing things differently, I’d wager that the Gamorreans, as Jabba’s chosen guards, are probably quite clever, alert and very good at what they do. It wouldn’t work to have a bunch of idiots guarding the palace of one of the biggest mob bosses in the galaxy.
You do make a good point.
I disagree.
What happened to Obi-Wan and Yoda:
What happened to Luke:
I don’t recall Luke choking anyone in ROTJ
I thought he was using a Jedi mind trick there.
I agree with Warb. We know what it looks like if someone is choking and that wasn’t what happened in that scene. I have always read the scene as Luke convincing the GGs to go back to their posts and sleep, their hands on their chests in a restrained or passive position.
Really? Even with the guards grabbing their throats and making choking noises? He was obviously force choking.
Pig sounds and hands on chests. Also clear they are not pushed.
Choking sounds with them clutching their throats. It’s very clear choking sounds too and not pig like sound either. Watch the scene again and you’ll see how clear it is that Luke is force choking them. And, if you need more proof, then this is direct from the novel:
Luke raised his hand and pointed at them. Before they could draw their weapons they were clutching their own throats, choking, gasping.
It is an interesting piece of evidence, though it doesn’t accurately describe the scene in the film re the weapons. Another piece of evidence is the script which doesn’t appear to mention choking.
The blue elephant in the room.
This meme or whatever you call it is dumb. Obi-Wan didn’t tell Luke: “hey you’re Dad was an asshole and the Jedi deserve to die.” Yoda never told Luke: “there is no dark side or light side. the jedi were arrogant and wrong”.
The people who defend these ST movies are no different than the people who defend the prequels. Mental gymnastics and totally ignoring the spirit of the original movies. But hey look it’s Darth Mual with his cool double bladed lightsaber. Er…I mean look it’s Porgs and Kylo Ren with a saber handle! It’s Star Wars duh!
If that is your attitude - then why are you here? To bait or antaognise those on here that do like these films? If so your stay here is going to be a short one.
Excuse me, am I not allowed to post my thoughts on the movie? What did I do to violate the rules? Or you just disagree with me and my posts bother you so you’d rather silence them?
Warbler said:
This is also a good point.
It seems not everyone here shares your point of view (directed at oojason). Maybe you should consider that people have different points of view on these movies and all should be welcome. I didn’t tell you to stop posting because you like the movie.
This is the first time in my 28 years that I’ve even seen it suggested that Luke could’ve been doing anything other than choking the guards. I had no idea there was any disagreement at all about that.
Yes Luke was choking the guard in ROTJ.
I don’t recall Luke choking anyone in ROTJ
I thought he was using a Jedi mind trick there.
I agree with Warb. We know what it looks like if someone is choking and that wasn’t what happened in that scene. I have always read the scene as Luke convincing the GGs to go back to their posts and sleep, their hands on their chests in a restrained or passive position.
Really? Even with the guards grabbing their throats and making choking noises? He was obviously force choking.
Pig sounds and hands on chests. Also clear they are not pushed.
Choking sounds with them clutching their throats. It’s very clear choking sounds too and not pig like sound either. Watch the scene again and you’ll see how clear it is that Luke is force choking them. And, if you need more proof, then this is direct from the novel:
Luke raised his hand and pointed at them. Before they could draw their weapons they were clutching their own throats, choking, gasping.
It is an interesting piece of evidence, though it doesn’t accurately describe the scene in the film re the weapons. Another piece of evidence is the script which doesn’t appear to mention choking.
Can i ask you, did you watch the scene again (which clearly shows they are choking by not only their actions but the clear choking sound effects) or are you just going by memory?
The scene at the end of TFA is from Rey’s perspective. So it’s epic and momentous - here’s me offering this legendary lightsaber to this legendary person to ask him to save the galaxy. Whatever happens after that doesn’t change the emotion of that moment.
In TLJ, we get a twist on it by seeing how Luke really feels about the “legendary” label. And Luke talks about his feelings about being a legend later in the film - the label is a burden, it caused him great pressure and great shame - it is the reason he has brought himself into exile. In that moment, he’s thinking that that lightsaber brought him terrible emotional and physical pain (remember the last time he saw it?). He doesn’t respect the saber in the way Rey does, he rejects it. Tossing the saber instantly establishes Luke’s feelings about the Jedi and his legendary status (i.e. no thanks).
But that’s okay. That’s just where Luke is at the start of the film. It’s part of his journey here, to coming back around to understanding that he needs to pick up the saber and act once again, to be the legend the galaxy needs. This, by the way, is why he uses that blue saber at the end.
The scene at the end of TFA is from Rey’s perspective. So it’s epic and momentous - here’s me offering this legendary lightsaber to this legendary person to ask him to save the galaxy. Whatever happens after that doesn’t change the emotion of that moment.
In TLJ, we get a twist on it by seeing how Luke really feels about the “legendary” label. And Luke talks about his feelings about being a legend later in the film - the label is a burden, it caused him great pressure and great shame - it is the reason he has brought himself into exile. In that moment, he’s thinking that that lightsaber brought him terrible emotional and physical pain (remember the last time he saw it?). He doesn’t respect the saber in the way Rey does, he rejects it. Tossing the saber instantly establishes Luke’s feelings about the Jedi and his legendary status (i.e. no thanks).
But that’s okay. That’s just where Luke is at the start of the film. It’s part of his journey here, to coming back around to understanding that he needs to pick up the saber and act once again, to be the legend the galaxy needs. This, by the way, is why he uses that blue saber at the end.
You do realize that if he simply tossed it to the side gently it would be much easier for people to accept it right? The problem is how he comically tossed the lightsaber over his shoulder. The execution was terrible for being the payoff of such a powerful scene in TFA. I, for example, waited 2 years to specifically watch that scene and BAM SNL material right there.
Also the face Luke makes at the end of TFA makes no sense anymore.
This meme or whatever you call it is dumb. Obi-Wan didn’t tell Luke: “hey you’re Dad was an asshole and the Jedi deserve to die.” Yoda never told Luke: “there is no dark side or light side. the jedi were arrogant and wrong”.
The people who defend these ST movies are no different than the people who defend the prequels. Mental gymnastics and totally ignoring the spirit of the original movies. But hey look it’s Darth Mual with his cool double bladed lightsaber. Er…I mean look it’s Porgs and Kylo Ren with a saber handle! It’s Star Wars duh!
If that is your attitude - then why are you here? To bait or antaognise those on here that do like these films? If so your stay here is going to be a short one.
Since I’m new here, can you point out which rule I violated that deserved you to threaten me? I read through them…
I can’t see any reason you would threaten me except you don’t like my point of view. I wasn’t aware that was against the rules.
You do make a good point.
I disagree.
What happened to Obi-Wan and Yoda:
- Jedi purge aided by Obi-Wan’s former apprentice now Darth Vader
- Galactic Empire takes over the galaxy
- Yoda and Obi-Wan face off against Sidious and Vader despite terrible odds
- Yoda fights Sidious to a stalemate and is forced to flee, as troops arrive
- Obi-Wan defeats Vader, leaving him for dead
- Obi-Wan and Yoda are now hunted by the Empire, branded traitors with the approval of the Senate, and are forced into hiding
- Obi-Wan and Yoda hide Luke and Leia
- It takes twenty years for the Rebel Alliance to become a significant threat to the Empire’s powerbase
- Leia asks Obi-Wan for help in their most desparate hour, Obi-Wan answers their call
What happened to Luke:
- Luke’s Jedi Academy is destroyed by his former apprentice partly caused by Luke’s unfortunate mistake
- New Republic controls most of the galaxy
- FO is growing in power, but at this point still a fringe government
- Despite the fact that there’s still plenty of opportunity to stop the FO with the help of the Resistance and the Republic fleet, Luke doesn’t even try, and goes into exile, leaving everything behind
- In Luke’s absence the FO grows in power to the point, that it is able to destroy the Republic capital and take over the galaxy
- Luke refuses to help even after his sister Leia through Rey informs him of their situation, and his best friend has been murdered
This right here. I don’t see how people even compare the 2 situations. Obi-Wan and Yoda literally did everything they could. Luke did nothing.
I don’t recall Luke choking anyone in ROTJ
I thought he was using a Jedi mind trick there.
I agree with Warb. We know what it looks like if someone is choking and that wasn’t what happened in that scene. I have always read the scene as Luke convincing the GGs to go back to their posts and sleep, their hands on their chests in a restrained or passive position.
Really? Even with the guards grabbing their throats and making choking noises? He was obviously force choking.
Pig sounds and hands on chests. Also clear they are not pushed.
Choking sounds with them clutching their throats. It’s very clear choking sounds too and not pig like sound either. Watch the scene again and you’ll see how clear it is that Luke is force choking them. And, if you need more proof, then this is direct from the novel:
Luke raised his hand and pointed at them. Before they could draw their weapons they were clutching their own throats, choking, gasping.
It is an interesting piece of evidence, though it doesn’t accurately describe the scene in the film re the weapons. Another piece of evidence is the script which doesn’t appear to mention choking.
Can i ask you, did you watch the scene again (which clearly shows they are choking by not only their actions but the clear choking sound effects) or are you just going by memory?
First memory and then watched it. I do see how one could believe they are being choked. I think it is quite ambiguous. My perception of the scene coincidentally lines up with the description found in scripts found online. Maybe it changed in production and you are right. But I don’t think the nature of their pig grunts is quite so clear.
The blue elephant in the room.
You do make a good point.
I disagree.
What happened to Obi-Wan and Yoda:
- Jedi purge aided by Obi-Wan’s former apprentice now Darth Vader
- Galactic Empire takes over the galaxy
- Yoda and Obi-Wan face off against Sidious and Vader despite terrible odds
- Yoda fights Sidious to a stalemate and is forced to flee, as troops arrive
- Obi-Wan defeats Vader, leaving him for dead
- Obi-Wan and Yoda are now hunted by the Empire, branded traitors with the approval of the Senate, and are forced into hiding
- Obi-Wan and Yoda hide Luke and Leia
- It takes twenty years for the Rebel Alliance to become a significant threat to the Empire’s powerbase
- Leia asks Obi-Wan for help in their most desparate hour, Obi-Wan answers their call
What happened to Luke:
- Luke’s Jedi Academy is destroyed by his former apprentice partly caused by Luke’s unfortunate mistake
- New Republic controls most of the galaxy
- FO is growing in power, but at this point still a fringe government
- Despite the fact that there’s still plenty of opportunity to stop the FO with the help of the Resistance and the Republic fleet, Luke doesn’t even try, and goes into exile, leaving everything behind
- In Luke’s absence the FO grows in power to the point, that it is able to destroy the Republic capital and take over the galaxy
- Luke refuses to help even after his sister Leia through Rey informs him of their situation, and his best friend has been murdered
This right here. I don’t see how people even compare the 2 situations. Obi-Wan and Yoda literally did all they could. Luke did nothing.
That’s so right. But I wonder why DrDre was disagreeing with Warbler. I was making the same point and he was agreeing with me (I thought?).
can you point out which rule I violated that deserved you to threaten me? I read through them…
2. I didn’t attack anyone.
The people who defend these ST movies are no different than the people who defend the prequels. Mental gymnastics and totally ignoring the spirit of the original movies. But hey look it’s Darth Mual with his cool double bladed lightsaber. Er…I mean look it’s Porgs and Kylo Ren with a saber handle! It’s Star Wars duh!
That’s saying that the people who like this movie are stupid or lying to themselves. That’s a personal attack on that group.
I don’t recall Luke choking anyone in ROTJ
I thought he was using a Jedi mind trick there.
I agree with Warb. We know what it looks like if someone is choking and that wasn’t what happened in that scene. I have always read the scene as Luke convincing the GGs to go back to their posts and sleep, their hands on their chests in a restrained or passive position.
Really? Even with the guards grabbing their throats and making choking noises? He was obviously force choking.
Pig sounds and hands on chests. Also clear they are not pushed.
Choking sounds with them clutching their throats. It’s very clear choking sounds too and not pig like sound either. Watch the scene again and you’ll see how clear it is that Luke is force choking them. And, if you need more proof, then this is direct from the novel:
Luke raised his hand and pointed at them. Before they could draw their weapons they were clutching their own throats, choking, gasping.
It is an interesting piece of evidence, though it doesn’t accurately describe the scene in the film re the weapons. Another piece of evidence is the script which doesn’t appear to mention choking.
Can i ask you, did you watch the scene again (which clearly shows they are choking by not only their actions but the clear choking sound effects) or are you just going by memory?
First memory and then watched it. I do see how one could believe they are being choked. I think it is quite ambiguous. My perception of the scene coincidentally lines up with the description found in scripts found online. Maybe it changed in production and you are right. But I don’t think the nature of their pig grunts is quite so clear.
Luke force choked the guard just like his father force choked people in the previous movies. The difference was his dad liked those powers, and thought they made him stronger, and continued down the dark path as he lusted for power over other people. Luke was tempted to follow the same path but he chose the light side of the force. He wanted to be a good guy and help his family and friends and fight and sacrifice for a greater cause.
But in this movie, throw all that out the window I guess. /mad
You do make a good point.
I disagree.
What happened to Obi-Wan and Yoda:
- Jedi purge aided by Obi-Wan’s former apprentice now Darth Vader
- Galactic Empire takes over the galaxy
- Yoda and Obi-Wan face off against Sidious and Vader despite terrible odds
- Yoda fights Sidious to a stalemate and is forced to flee, as troops arrive
- Obi-Wan defeats Vader, leaving him for dead
- Obi-Wan and Yoda are now hunted by the Empire, branded traitors with the approval of the Senate, and are forced into hiding
- Obi-Wan and Yoda hide Luke and Leia
- It takes twenty years for the Rebel Alliance to become a significant threat to the Empire’s powerbase
- Leia asks Obi-Wan for help in their most desparate hour, Obi-Wan answers their call
What happened to Luke:
- Luke’s Jedi Academy is destroyed by his former apprentice partly caused by Luke’s unfortunate mistake
- New Republic controls most of the galaxy
- FO is growing in power, but at this point still a fringe government
- Despite the fact that there’s still plenty of opportunity to stop the FO with the help of the Resistance and the Republic fleet, Luke doesn’t even try, and goes into exile, leaving everything behind
- In Luke’s absence the FO grows in power to the point, that it is able to destroy the Republic capital and take over the galaxy
- Luke refuses to help even after his sister Leia through Rey informs him of their situation, and his best friend has been murdered
This right here. I don’t see how people even compare the 2 situations. Obi-Wan and Yoda literally did all they could. Luke did nothing.
That’s so right. But I wonder why DrDre was disagreeing with Warbler. I was making the same point and he was agreeing with me (I thought?).
Sorry, I probably just misread the reply. I agree with you both.
