The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 79

DrDre said:

As I stated before I think TLJ is enjoyable as a stand alone film. It has some good scenes, but in my view it’s not really forging it’s own path. For all the shocks and twists it is content to rehash the Empire versus rebels dynamic, as if stuck in a time loop. Meanwhile we get alternate reality versions of the battle of Hoth, the Dagobah training sequence, and the throne room sequence. In many ways it’s a mishmash of the OT with a new coat of paint. However for me the most difficult aspect of the film is how it seems to actively attempt to diminish the characters, and themes of the Lucas era Star Wars, in order to further it’s own far more cynical agenda.

A good summation of some of my own feelings. I think set in a different franchise or simply not associated with SW I could have enjoyed the movie but as Episode 8 it is a disaster.

DominicCobb said:

Hamill on twitter

I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public.Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/945784443964309505?ref_src=twcamp^share|twsrc^m5|twgr^email|twcon^7046|twterm^3

Though of course he was forced by Disney to say this!

So he’s changed his tune and stance on the whole matter. Good for him if that helps him deal with having to play “Jake Skywalker” instead of Luke. I sympathised with and agreed very heavily on his initial comments and reaction post viewing and that’s what will stay with me because of the emotional impact it made on me after reeling from watching TLJ myself.

I don’t think he’s changed his tune at all since making the film, that’s the point. He was just being honest about his initial reservations with the script, and people on the internet (not understanding nuance, as usual) have misconstrued that into him hating the film and Rian Johnson too.

DominicCobb said:

I don’t think he’s changed his tune at all since making the film, that’s the point. He was just being honest about his initial reservations with the script, and people on the internet (not understanding nuance, as usual) have misconstrued that into him hating the film and Rian Johnson too.

I don’t think he hates the film, he was deeply conflicted and troubled with what they’d done to his character. Having had it explained to him and then seeing it, he understands how it was required for the story. This doesn’t mean though that he doesn’t still “fundamentally disagree” with what was done with his character. But the movie is made and it’s out, he has to move on and still get along with his colleagues and the studio. He accepts what has come to pass and chooses to move on rather than fight a pointless battle. Such as will I when I tire of discussing the controversy that is TLJ.

SilverWook said:

Wouldn’t it be a shocker if that was Luke’s clone on that island? I think Mark is sending us a secret message with this Jake Skywalker stuff. 😛

What? That’s a stretch and a half Wook. Watch the interview where he says this and his genuine incredulity about how is he going to portray this character that carries the name Luke Skywalker but that isn’t recognisable to him in the slightest? His only answer: pretend it’s a different character.

I feel this sort of trying to justify such events so it doesn’t conflict with your view on the issue is becoming more rife throughout this thread. The amount of times I’ve seen people trying to re-explain and retcon parts of the OT so that it fits with their argument about why something in TLJ or the ST in general makes sense is saddening to see. Much like people trying to correct things in the OT to resolve issues within the PT. Such will never work as the OT is the source of the original story, characters and canon. It is the backbone upon which the entire saga, franchise and fandom is built, undermine it and you undermine all those elements that derive from this seed that grew the Star Wars tree.

SilverWook said:

I think you’re misconstruing my attempts to inject some much needed levity into this thread.

However…
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Luuke_Skywalker

Being glib is wasted on some people

SilverWook said:

I think you’re misconstruing my attempts to inject some much needed levity into this thread.

However…
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Luuke_Skywalker

Ah k, sorry. I just didn’t realise what you were doing in what has become a serious conversation for myself. Much like tonaly different humour doesn’t fit well with the seriousness of what is happening in TLJ. I simply mistook your post to be saying something else when thinking it a serious post.

Val, if you really want to engage me in a serious discussion, I suggest you leave loaded political terms like “SJW” at the front door.

TV’s Frink said:

Val, if you really want to engage me in a serious discussion, I suggest you leave loaded political terms like “SJW” at the front door.

I’m not looking to engage you in serious discussion if you’re not. The least you can do though if replying to me is not misrepresent what I’m saying. Interesting side step on still not owning up to a simple mistake of which “SJW” had nothing to do with.

Ok.

Mocata said:

Why is that scene a sticking point at all though? A Jedi can do all kinds of wacky things, and this falls under ‘knowledge and defence’ last time I checked. Jumping out of a trap or grabbing an object is fine but woah holding your breath and reaching for the nearest airlock is craazy. The only dumb part is that she didn’t pull inside the other bridge officers and seal the hole behind them.

I didn’t like the Leia surviving in space and then floating back to the ship. It’s ridiculous like if a force user could fly. I liked how Luke had to really struggled just to use the force in the OT. I think it’s best if the force is limited in what you can do with it as otherwise it takes the “magic” away. But I do think there should be beginner, intermediate, and master levels of force users.

In Empire, I never did like the fast high force jump that Luke does when Vader to trying to trap him in that pit they used to freeze Han Solo. And then Luke jumps up really super high. I never did like that Luke could do that. But luckily Vader has a really good line of “Impressive, most impressive” and so makes that scene not look so hokey.

flametitan said:

I started thinking about Rogue One again, and I started to realize more about my problem with the Resistance in TLJ. Aside from it being the organization the protagonists work for, why do we care about them? Especially when the film tries to set up a very grey world, blurring the lines between good and evil. Yes, they’re fighting the fascist regime, but the film doesn’t really make an effort to set up the First Order as an oppressive force on the Galaxy they conquered, either.

We can argue the quality of the characters and the structure, but Rogue One showed off just what was at stake in the film. The Empire was shown as a nearly omnipresent and oppressive force, willing to level a city (and pretty much the surrounding continent) to deal with some insurgents giving them trouble and test out a new toy. We’re shown the importance of the Macguffin and why it matters that the characters obtain it.

In TLJ, we’re more told about how bad the First Order ruling the galaxy is; the only times we’re given a real reason as to believe how terrible it is is when they destroy the Hosnian System and brainwash children into being stormtroopers in TFA. Otherwise, we’re got really given a reason as to why we should give a damn who’s in charge.

What exactly is it that the First Order is doing? Like, what’s their purpose? Maybe they talked about it. But from watching the movies, I never really understood what their purpose was or why they took over the roll of the defeated Empire.

DominicCobb said:

Hamill on twitter

I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public.Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/945784443964309505?ref_src=twcamp^share|twsrc^m5|twgr^email|twcon^7046|twterm^3

Though of course he was forced by Disney to say this!

Disney probably did force Hamill to say this. I was really surprised that Hamill had been going around saying he didn’t like Johnson’s version of “Luke”. And I pretty much agree with what Hamill said. If I was in his position, I’d be giving Johnson hell too about what he was doing with Luke. I’m sure Hamill has thought about what Luke has been doing past 30 years.

Though I don’t like what Hamill had in his mind of his Luke. In that Luke had a kid who accidentally killed himself with his lightsaber. Because Hamill is really anti-gun, and so wanted to use the lightsaber to make a liberal commentary on guns.

DominicCobb said:

Hamill on twitter

I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public.Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/945784443964309505?ref_src=twcamp^share|twsrc^m5|twgr^email|twcon^7046|twterm^3

Though of course he was forced by Disney to say this!

Hamill never really took back what he said about not liking what was written for his character. He said he regretted saying those things. He has always said that the movie is fantastic, he never said otherwise. What people are highlighting in videos, etc. is how he didn’t like the character of Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi, and I don’t think that’s something hard to believe. In fact that’s in several ways what I think. And he didn’t take that back here, he simply stated that he regrets voicing it in public.

NeverarGreat said:

It sounds to me that Hamill was being truthful when he said that he initially had doubts with Rian’s version of Luke, and he’s being truthful here when he says that the movie is nevertheless great.

He doesn’t strike me as the sort of person to lie; he probably just regrets giving cover to angry fanboys.

Yeah, exactly. Hamill clearly doesn’t care about toeing the company line or whatever (neither did Carrie or Harrison), so I don’t know why he’d make this statement if not for clarification.

The other thing is people are acting like he only said this after he saw the film. I’ve read/heard interviews with him saying similar stuff months ago, about having reservations initially then coming around to and appreciating Rian’s vision.

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Hamill on twitter

I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public.Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/945784443964309505?ref_src=twcamp^share|twsrc^m5|twgr^email|twcon^7046|twterm^3

Though of course he was forced by Disney to say this!

Hamill never really took back what he said about not liking what was written for his character. He said he regretted saying those things. He has always said that the movie is fantastic, he never said otherwise. What people are highlighting in videos, etc. is how he didn’t like the character of Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi, and I don’t think that’s something hard to believe. In fact that’s in several ways what I think. And he didn’t take that back here, he simply stated that he regrets voicing it in public.

That’s not really what he’s saying though. He’s not saying he dislikes Luke’s character in TLJ, just that he had a different idea of what the character’s story should be. He’s only saying he regrets saying it because people have misunderstood his message.

I think you’re more right than I am. After all, he said he disagreed with Rian, not that he didn’t like his directions or script. I guess it’s a better way to view it than the way I was viewing it.

I’m still not the biggest fan of several aspects of Luke’s character in this movie though.