The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 76

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

YouTube likes and dislikes are an indication of a good movie or a bad movie now? Ok.

Could be an indication of public opinion though, which is what he’s talking about, not the quality of the movie.

Not general public, a specific subset.

Calculon said:

Shopping Maul said:
I don’t know how plausible Leia’s space walk is. For all I know her survival in that moment (Force aside) is entirely scientific. But it looks ridiculous. It takes me out of the film because I start questioning it - “hang on, does that even make sense?”. Yes, it’s a universe where muppets lift X-wing fighters with a gesture, but somehow this moment is a mood-killer.

It was a little weird, and the way they did the visuals made it look a little silly. Ultimately I just went with it, mostly for the reasons you mentioned. I mean, if you can pull an object to yourself, why not pull yourself toward an object? If we’re putting future stories in a creative box labeled “if it didn’t happen in the original three or six, it can’t happen”, there wouldn’t be anywhere to go. That’s generally where I stand with most of the more controversial things being discussed around here.

The plausibility of the space walk in general? Force aside, yes, it’s generally accepted that you can survive in vacuum for a short time. Maybe a minute. Because of the near-zero pressure, your tissues near the skin would get puffy, and all of the moisture on the exposed surfaces of your body would boil away (saliva, etc). Only ‘mistake’ I noticed was that they seemed to make her look ‘iced over’, which is a common thing to do to someone exposed to vacuum in TV and movies. But that wouldn’t happen very quickly. Your body temperature is well above freezing, and in vacuum there’s no convection or conduction to move heat - you only cool off via direct radiation - so you would more likely overheat than get cold. Of course you’d lose consciousness after a few seconds at best, so you’d probably never notice…

In short - surviving the spacewalk itself is fine. They also did it correctly in that she would need immediate hospitalization for decompression injuries. But in a universe that has bacta, no problem, right?

Cool response - thanks! It’s fascinating to me just how Star Wars credulity works, and how varied and nuanced it can be. And yes, Bacta heals all wounds as they say…

captainsolo said:

Again, to those who liked it good for you. That’s fine. I’m not trying to discredit anyone or their likes/dislikes. This is at least one place I feel I can be honest about SW topics.
TLJ killed me. Just gutted me.

But to me this is painfully obvious:
Disney Wars has nothing to do with Star Wars. It has no heart, no soul and no reason for being other than as a property to make money. They do not work as proper standalone features and they certainly have no regard for the property they claim to be a part of.

The more I think about what I saw is to realize how it essentially gives the middle finger to the universe of SW-to a degree that makes what TFA did look like nothing.
Not even the worst of the EU so blatantly disregarded the way the universe of the story worked. To me The Phantom Menace is Shakespearean in comparison. There. Yes, I really said it.

Did anyone else feel as badly as I did?

Signed up just to say, YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES .

I can not accept this Luke. Compassionate Luke is the only canon Luke, and I regurgitated this storyline up while watching it. The new characters are pointless, and the extension of the galactic civil war adds nothing. The camel fart in Phantom Menace is a welcome respite from watching Luke squeeze human shaped alien walrus boobs. When I listen to the soundtrack, I love John Williams, but I make up my own Star Wars stories. I don’t even think of the Disney canon as being a possible future of the OT for what utter failures and awful people it makes of Han, Luke and Leia. The ST to me is as non-canon as Jaws The Revenge is to the original Jaws. Chief Brody did not die of fear of the shark, and Luke did not go away to die after attempted murder of his only progeny. Tragedy and disgrace should not be tacked on to our heroes for the sake of extending a franchise, but should come from an organic tale, like that of Anakin.

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

YouTube likes and dislikes are an indication of a good movie or a bad movie now? Ok.

Could be an indication of public opinion though, which is what he’s talking about, not the quality of the movie.

Exactly.

TV’s Frink said:

YouTube likes and dislikes are an indication of a good movie or a bad movie now? Ok.

I thought you were a bit more perceptive than this Frink, I’m not saying the likes vs dislikes is an indication of whether the movie is good or bad. I think it is a bad movie regardless, I was simply pointing to evidence that there is a significant number of people who are agreeing with such videos versus the people disliking it and therefore it’s not out of the question that the low Rotten Tomatoes audience score is legitimate.

ray_afraid said:

TV’s Frink said:

YouTube likes and dislikes are an indication of a good movie or a bad movie now? Ok.

Yeah, sheesh. What a weird thing to judge anything by.
And anybody who bothers clicking “dislike” on a YouTube video is either trolling or has psychological issues. I’m always laughing at “12 people actually took the time to say ‘nya!’ at an informative video that is exactly what it says it is.”

I thought better of you than this Ray. I click dislike on many videos that I don’t like or don’t agree with on some level that I feel warrants a dislike. So according to you I have psychological issues or I’m just out for a good trolling? Nice generalisation there mate.

.Val

NeverarGreat said:

This guy’s comment/review is a fair summary of my own thoughts. Here’s his whole review:

Henry Gorman said:

This is a frustrating movie.

It has an impressive and noble ambition: to expose the fundamental hollowness of the Star Wars franchise’s heroes and their conflicts, and then, to give them some kind of substance. The Luke Skywalker who appears here is shockingly caustic and cynical, but the selfishness he displays has long been part of his character. He’s always been pulled into heroism by his hungers for recognition, fame, and family. Even though he’s a hero of the Rebellion, he has no organic connection to it, and never shows much interest in its overarching goals (which have almost always been irrelevant to the movie). If he had gone to the Academy a few years ago, as he had wanted to, he likely would have become a TIE fighter pilot. The younger heroes of The Force Awakens are not so different. Rey, a total social outcast, is fueled by a hunger for any sort of connection and purpose; Finn, the cowardly former stormtrooper whose behavior and background never quite gel, is much the same; Poe Dameron is valorous but, in this film, also a vainglorious death seeker whose choices undermine the cause. The Last Jedi confronts its protagonists with the limits of this selfish type of heroism and forces them to transcend it. It also tries to contextualize their struggle within the broader social and metaphysical realities. For the first time in the main saga, the Force is presented as something other than a vague abstraction, and the Resistance/Rebellion has a clear cause to fight for.

However, until the last 45 minutes or so of the film’s two and a half hours, Rian Johnson really struggles to dramatize all of this. He lacks JJ Abrams’s easy knack for creating character relationships out of thin air, which is a major problem in a film which separates its protagonists from their established friends for most of its runtime. He’s similarly clumsy with tone; the film’s opening sequence begins with Spaceballs-like farce, but pivots to Battlestar Galactica-like grim desperation without much consideration for how its comedy and tragedy interact. He also draws on a variety of stylistic influences (the aforementioned Spaceballs and Battlestar Galactica, Kurosawa’s oeuvre, Baz Luhrman’s Great Gatsby, Avatar: The Last Airbender) without constructively synthesizing them into a coherent whole, as Tarantino, Edgar Wright, or even George Lucas would have. The movie’s finale, which brings its main characters together and unifies its aesthetics, is far more effective and engaging (and beautiful! it includes both the most visually striking spaceship destruction and the most visually magnificent land battle in the whole franchise), but it’s undermined by what came before it. It also teases, then chickens out of making a few especially exciting choices.

So, The Last Jedi is more interesting than it is effective. It’s more thematically rich than The Force Awakens, but far less functional from moment to moment. I think it will produce some great fanfiction. I’d love to hear a rebuttal from one of the people who think that it’s the best Star Wars since The Empire Strikes Back.

A couple of things this guy says rings true for me but inherent selfishness in Luke’s character? Wtf is he on about?

Also I’ll take the battle of Hoth any day over its “look, salt” shadow of remake.

.Val

compassionateluke said:
I can not accept this Luke.

And I can not accept Prequel and Rogue One Vader. So what? It happened. We can’t change it. All we can do is never watch the respective movies again.

Valheru_84 said:

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

YouTube likes and dislikes are an indication of a good movie or a bad movie now? Ok.

Could be an indication of public opinion though, which is what he’s talking about, not the quality of the movie.

Exactly.

TV’s Frink said:

YouTube likes and dislikes are an indication of a good movie or a bad movie now? Ok.

I thought you were a bit more perceptive than this Frink, I’m not saying the likes vs dislikes is an indication of whether the movie is good or bad. I think it is a bad movie regardless, I was simply pointing to evidence that there is a significant number of people who are agreeing with such videos versus the people disliking it and therefore it’s not out of the question that the low Rotten Tomatoes audience score is legitimate.

ray_afraid said:

TV’s Frink said:

YouTube likes and dislikes are an indication of a good movie or a bad movie now? Ok.

Yeah, sheesh. What a weird thing to judge anything by.
And anybody who bothers clicking “dislike” on a YouTube video is either trolling or has psychological issues. I’m always laughing at “12 people actually took the time to say ‘nya!’ at an informative video that is exactly what it says it is.”

I thought better of you than this Ray. I click dislike on many videos that I don’t like or don’t agree with on some level that I feel warrants a dislike. So according to you I have psychological issues or I’m just out for a good trolling? Nice generalisation there mate.

.Val

I think you are forgetting that a lot of people would simply not watch the video. So of course you cannot take the ratio of likes and dislikes to mean anything other than that a small number of people who actually decided to watch the video didn’t like it.

You could also have tried to make the point that a lot of people watched the video, and therefore a lot of people didn’t like the movie, but that’s not the point you’re making.

I’m also still confused about the whole “Disney ruined it” thing. I mean sure there are jokes that push things a little too far into Avengers territory, but otherwise how exactly is this is a safe corporate product? I’m pretty sure if they had their hooks deeply into Johnson it would be the film certain people really wanted with Luke cutting down 20 AT-ATs and an entire “Rey I am your father” scene so that all the basic fanboys are satisfied. I don’t really see any tight leashes on the writing here. Plus the “Mark Hamill said some things so that validates my entire perspective” line of thinking is also just weird.

Valheru_84 said:

I thought you were a bit more perceptive than this Frink, I’m not saying the likes vs dislikes is an indication of whether the movie is good or bad. I think it is a bad movie regardless, I was simply pointing to evidence that there is a significant number of people who are agreeing with such videos versus the people disliking it and therefore it’s not out of the question that the low Rotten Tomatoes audience score is legitimate.

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

YouTube likes and dislikes are an indication of a good movie or a bad movie now? Ok.

Could be an indication of public opinion though, which is what he’s talking about, not the quality of the movie.

Not general public, a specific subset.

Watched it again. Enjoyed it better, still somethings in the meta-message of the movie are far off SW.

Space Leia counterdicts the idea that the Force is for everyone. Leia has never received any training in the movies yet she uses the force just because of her powerful bloodline.

There’s no good and bad anymore. (Kylo/Rey, Benicio del Toro’s skepticism)

It’s better to be obedient and submissive than to rebel against orders that make no sense to you, because if you don’t follow orders things can go worse. Trust the system.

There’s no point in sacrificing for others, like Finn tried. Or like Rey tried, because if you hold on to the spark of hope in someone who seems beyond redemption it’s just a bait for evil to torture you. So let go of solidarity as well.

There’s no redemption for those who don’t want to save themselves (did Vader want to save himself?), that’s Rey leting go of Kylo in the end of the film that is Leia renouncing to a mother’s inconditional love, which essentially speaks of a far worse Leia than Luke in TLJ. She’s a strong woman, granted, but she’s not quite a great and functional human being in her role of mother (only that motherhood doesn’t say anything about you anymore) At this point, it was Han and not Leia who truly loved Ben. And Leia was just a jerk that sent Han to death only to renounce his son after that (and not because of that).

There’s no point in having remorse for one’s mistakes, like Luke did. Because “failure is the best teacher” (which is to say that failing is something good. Wouldn’t it be betterr not to fail at all, and learn watching someone else’s mistakes?)

There’s no point in knowing the past (let the past die, burn the books, kill your father and your teacher, burn the tree) or caring for the future (we are what they grow beyond, no need to learn or reveal a military plan), and from here on:

There’s no point in knowing one’s identity (Rey), because in the end we are all sons of nobodies (the only way to positively determine an identity at a social scale is patriarchy, otherwise check the hebrew POV on the subject, and reflect on the agenda of the movie.)

This is not a “safe” corporate product in terms of inmediate market selling. Half of the people don’t like this movie, so that POV doesn’t stand as solid for me. This is instead a very deep, well thought manifesto on social architecture in the hands of a corporation: TLJ proposes that we are all individuals and that we have no need of the Other. We’re no ones. We have to obbey, to be passive, to accept imperfections, to renounce the past and the future, to refuse the concept of bravery, to embrace our lowest and not to ever rebel against ourselves or the others beyond the point we’re allowed to by the permissions granted.

Luke wasn’t being selfish, I disagree with Hammil on this one. He was acting out of solidarity. And up to some point, it is not out of character. I mean, he responds like Luke Skywalker would. Luke is a good person, that is why he is full of remorse out of what he did. And that is Luke Skywalker from the Original Trilogy: we saw him slip to the darkside in Jedi, and then tossing his sabre. He did again with Kylo and had the same reaction.

I don’t know if I wanted the ST trilogy to be designed to include Luke only in one episode, and have that episode be about a broken Luke. But having a Luke capable of evil again after ROTJ, his conflict and reaction seems totally in character to me. And it totally makes thense that the only and most respectful thing you can do with a Hero in a movie about accepting what happens is to have him recluse on an island.

I don’t blame Rey for being tossed in a probable redemption arc situation in the middle chapter of a trilogy, but as far as this movie goes, not as great human being as the son of Anakin.

The irony of it all? That in the end Luke died looking at the horizon and sacrificing for others, for “the Other”. And he saved the Others, and saved the franchise not by saving the good guys on screen but by counterdicting the shitty message this movie has. It’s not a redemption for him, but more of reaching a peace within himself with his own thoughts from the past, a big fuck you to the bullshit they made Yoda say this time. For him, for a true hero it’s not here, now and within, but somewhere else, tomorrow, someone.

And it is a true hero, a true Jedi Knight, a true warrior of the Light Side who ends up saving this bunch of idiots that are the Iphone version of the rebel alliance.

The cause, consequence and true image of this movie is Anakin’s lightsabre (Call Dr Freud) being split between a “good” good girl and a “bad” vilain boy. Share the phalus, share the power, a little for each.

SilverWook said:

Is there proof Luke never taught Leia anything at all?

On screen.

Anjohan said:

The Last Jedi has become bad because people can’t comprehend new directions for a 40-year old franchise. Get over it.

Episode IX WILL probably be predictable as fuck and all SW fans will rejoice.

I’m lucky in that I can ignore TLJ and TFA in my own mental canon. Others are struggling with what they see as the destruction of what they know to be Star Wars.

But to claim that people are simply unable to adjust to change is disingenuous. This isnt change. This is degradation.

luckydube56 said:

Anjohan said:

The Last Jedi has become bad because people can’t comprehend new directions for a 40-year old franchise. Get over it.

Episode IX WILL probably be predictable as fuck and all SW fans will rejoice.

I’m lucky in that I can ignore TLJ and TFA in my own mental canon. Others are struggling with what they see as the destruction of what they know to be Star Wars.

But to claim that people are simply unable to adjust to change is disingenuous. This isnt change. This is degradation.

TFA was degradation to the point it was a rethread of structure and themes.
This is change, and a diametrically opposite change of everything in the SW lore.

And yet it is an enjoyable movie, and a very well crafted film.