The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 3

I’m not sure how willing I am to call Luke’s “death” a “death”. It felt to me more like he leveled up.

Anyway, I mentioned this in the other thread, but I love, love, looooooooove that it turned out Yoda was so cavalier about blowing up the tree because he knew Rey had already stolen the texts. “There was nothing in that library that the girl Rey did not already possess” indeed.

I believe she actually said he was “gone”. To which Leia 200% should have responded with Luke’s “No one’s ever really gone” line. Anyway, of course he’s dead in the same way that Yoda and Obi-Wan are dead, but that doesn’t feel to me like the same thing as the way Han is dead. Dissolving into the Force strikes me as a positive achievement.

I don’t know if we’ll get a time jump but I’m really hoping for one. I’m not wild about the fact that we’re two deep in the ST and we’ve only moved through about a week of story time. I get that Ahch-To has some kind of weird Force time dilation going on like Dagobah and Mortis from TCW, but the entire Resistance plot seems to take place the day after TFA.

As there is now a thread for reviews and opinions, I post here my previous message from “Episode VIII Discussion SPOILER THREAD” - sorry for this double post.

After three visions, this is what I can say :

This film is, with regard to the form as the content, a rupture with the previous films:

-With regard to the contents:

o all stories tell and show that you have to be free from the past:
 -Forgetting the Jedi and their order
 -Questioning the authority and the established order
 -Breaking what is built
O All “historical” characters are challenged
 -They are turned into derisory
 -They die
 -Their authority is challenged
 -They refuse to remain heroes and want to pass the hand, or be forgotten, or both
o The very notion of filiation is treated in this way
 -The answer to the origins of Rey (who are his parents) goes in this direction
 -Kylo explains his whole approach by the need to free himself from his father, and no longer seeks to be a new Vader

-With regard to the form

o all the visual and narrative codes of the “Star Wars visual grammar” are defeated or rejected
 - There is no longer slide transitions between the plans (except for 2 ou 3 plans)
 - There are flashbacks
 - The story resumes where it had stopped (there is no longer a temporal ellipse narrated in the introductory text)
 - The texts of the posters were in red
 - The film is much longer than usual (152 minutes)
O Several plans are humorous (eg: close-up on a iron) or dreamlike (ex: Flying Leia, this dreamlike plan is for me the biggest failure of this film)
O Several plans contain “human” references (e.g. champagne bottles at the casino, piano music at the casino, irons)
o We multiply the plot arcs (where, previously, there were one or two stories to follow, there is now much more that intermingle)

Unfortunately, if it is good to destroy everything, then we have to propose something new. And here, in my opinion, there is a problem. The director does not innovate at all, on the contrary: he multiplies the common visual effects (eg: jumps in space of a cohort of ships that recalls Battlestar Galactica 2004, slow-accelerated in a “Matrix” way, fields-contrefields filled with Philosophical Dialogues in a “Star Trek” way, humorous shots just like “Space Balls” or punchlines similar to the “Guardians of the Galaxy”…)

But nothing new, original or proprietary in all this. We are clearly no longer in a Star Wars visual grammar, but in a good SF film fairly anonymous on the form.

There remains an interesting and well conducted story (despite a few lengths that we would gladly avoid) that shows, repeatedly during 2H32, operations that are doomed to failure. Failures whom, paradoxically, the accumulation will lead to a victory: all the acts of rebellion fail miserably one after the other (loss of the Bombers then of the entire fleet, inability to escape from the tracking, operation “find the hacker” which is sold by a fiasco, operation “hacking” in the Imperial ship that also fails, final battle on Crait which is sold by a breakaway, failing to have been able to destroy the enemy cannon …)

But the film shows that the approach of rebellion as such is more important than the result obtained. It is this approach, this mindset, that will allow to swarm with a new generation. In short: the mindset is more important than the result. We are in an anti-Sartre story: We are not the sum of our actions, but the sum of our intentions.

Finally, the interest in this film lies in the close relationship between form and substance: The director himself probably fails to propose anything new, but his approach of rupture (of rebellion) is nonetheless interesting, laudable and probably beneficial in the long term for the Star Wars franchise, just as in the story he tells us.

For the rest, I enjoyed the dialogues, the first half hour, some visually impressive shots (eg: some use of light speed at the end of the film), and the direction of actors.

In short, it is and upsetting film: neither any good, nor any bad, but disappointing in its way to destroy everything without being truly able to propose something new. I sometimes felt that the director was a little too ambitious: if Denis Villeneuve managed to reinvent Blade Runner without saying that he was, Rian Johnson fails to reinvent Star Wars while, for two and a half hours, he tells us he will do it.

I thought the film was fantastic. I was lucky enough to see it in a small town cinema on wednesday at 5PM, so there were only about six people in the cinema. And four of them were me, my girlfriend, my sister and my father. Because of this the cinema was absolutely silent during most of the film (especially the important bits). This film did really hit hard emotionally, and I was honestly shocked at some of the decisions made (especially killing Snoke, killing Luke, destroying the Jedi texts (but not really), having Rey be nobody special and having Kylo Ren become the main villain). But I didn’t mind them because I thought they were very well done. When the film was over we all had tears in our eyes. I thought the death of Luke was sad, but extremely beautiful, and the first words my girlfriend and I said to each other (after the credits, when we could speak again) were “we are seeing this again.” I see online most people being angry about 1: Luke’s death, 2: Rey’s unimportant parents, 3: Snoke’s death, 4: Luke being in part responsible for the rise of Kylo Ren. But here’s how I see it. 1: The scene was beautiful, and I could think of no better death for this character than using the force with great power to save the people he cares about. 2: I think it’s even better that Rey has no special parents. When Star Wars first came out, Luke Skywalker was just a nobody. People didn’t know about his relation to Darth Vader. He was an everyman, and so is Rey. 3: I didn’t see this coming either, but I like it. Kylo Ren as a character has always been far more interesting than Snoke. I do think it’s sad we didn’t get to see his backstory, but honestly to me it doesn’t matter that much. 4: I think Luke has been greatly romanticized since 1983. So much fan fiction has turned him into an infallible angel. A super-being incapable of error. But in the original trilogy Luke made mistake after mistake. His entire duel with Vader at the end of Empire Strikes Back was a mistake (for the character, not the film, I mean that Luke made a mistake and should have stayed on Dagobah to finish his training), and it was one of the best scenes in all of Star Wars. Luke was never infallible, and I like the fact that in this film he is still human. Capable of error. This is where tragedy and drama come from. I think this may be one of the best films in the franchise.

Wow, i really, really, i mean, REALLY enjoyed the whole runtime of that film. There was a crapload of stuff in there, so i am not going to pick any nits just yet, but overall:

Every Character that i was on the fence about in TFA, was stellar in TLJ. this includes Finn,Hux,Poe,Snoke. Ok wait, i lied, i still don’t really like the Phasma character (she lacks reason for being IMO), and was glad to see her go.

I was so happy with how they treated Luke in this film.

I was so happy with jolly old Yoda. yeah he looked a bit different than what seemed right to me (chubby face and darker green as has been mentioned), but hell, he had the spirit of old yoda from ESB, and i loved that. i think i almost teared up when he burned the tree and had a good chuckle.

I really like how they turned Poe into someone who might be a convincing leader in the next film. he learned some lessons in this film from general leia, and gained some believability that he was sorely lacking in TFA.

I realy liked general leia as well. i even sorta liked her space moment, but was frustrated that it didn’t go anywhere. it seemed like everyone dropped it. i mean, did she do this often? was this a surpise to the rest of them? But it was awesome to see that she had also grown into her force abilities, but it was frustrating to have that be it.

JEDIT: how could i forget Rey and Kylo: they were amazing in this, and i really liked the way they developed them together in this.

I promised i won’t nit pick, but just to give a taste, things i have to give a second thought to are:
Convenient pauses in battles, benicio del toro’s stutter (i hate when stutters are added to characters for no discernable reason)

Well, I saw it, and against the trend and to my own surprise didn’t like it at all. As a stand alone movie I think, it’s pretty good, but as a Star Wars film it has so many issues, it’s hard to ignore.

There are many twists and turns, which were refreshing, but what are we really left with at the end? The New Republic is completely erased from existence at the start of the film, and we end up with a few dozen rebels as they are now once again called in a single ship having to defeat the FO, who now controls the entire galaxy. Talk about bad odds. Snoke became a plot device, only to be replaced by his incapable luitenant. Let’s not forget Kylo got his *** handed to him, and since this film directly follows TFA, and his training has not been completed, our main antagonist for episode IX remains just a boy in a mask (only his helmet is now too big), as Snoke called him, a pretender to the throne.

However, things are much worse on the side of the good. Whereas Luke took three films and the trials of Job to finally become a Jedi, Rey is now on her way to Jedi Knighthood after just three lessons. Three lessons reluctantly given by Luke are apparently enough for him to pass on the batton, and then just die. We got some Jedi history, which is nice, but apparently Yoda feels Rey and her three lessons worth of Jedi training are already more important than the collected wisdom of the Jedi masters of old. This attitude perfectly encapsulates this film.

I really liked TFA despite it’s derivative nature, mostly because of the new characters. However, what does TLJ really do with these characters?

Rey:

Rey who’s set up as a character with a mysterious background, who inexplicably has these great powers, but with a strong moral fibre, ends up in exactly the same place she was, only without the mystery. She’s still a as good natured as ever, only now she really just randomly has these amazing powers, that she hasn’t earned. She turns out to be a nobody, who’s now on the fast track to becoming a Jedi with only three basic lessons from the great Luke Skywalker. There’s no explanation why the Force awoke in her, it just did. The vision she had in TFA just turns out to have been a red herring.

Kylo:

Kylo has been set up to be an immature boy hiding behind a mask. He’s presented in TFA as the inheritor of Darth Vader’s legacy, but is ultimately exposed by Rey to be somewhat of a fraud. He get’s to go back to his master to lick his wounds, and hopefully reinvent himself. Sadly, this doesn’t pan out. He’s more or less cast aside by Snoke, and while this in of itself might have been an interesting starting point for his further development, he’s finally put in charge of the FO, not by his cunning or abilities, but because Rey hands herself to him, and Snoke is the dumbest fool in the galaxy.

Finn:

Finn get’s sent on a useless mission only made possible by Holdo’s poor communication skills. He fails his mission, but I guess wrecking a casino, and killing the severly underdeveloped Phasma is enough for him.

Poe:

Get’s a reasonable arc in this film, even if he seems like an unsuitable candidate for the leadership of the Resitance turned rebels.

Luke:

While Mark Hamill gives a great performance, this incarnation of the famed Jedi has him contemplating his nephew’s murder, because he has a bad vision. Remember this is the same character who couldn’t kill his father who was space Hitler. In the end it takes an appearance of Yoda, who inexplicably chooses this moment to reappear, and burns down the GFFA equivalent of the Old Testament as a joke to get Luke to see the light. His purpose is now to distract his mad nephew, such that his extremely inexperienced student can take his place to defeat Kylo (again), something the far more experienced Luke could have done in his sleep. Luke just dies, because he’s tired, I guess, and they need to give Kylo a fighting chance.

Leia:

Leia didn’t get much development in the previous film, and while being a dignified presence in this one, ultimately get’s to give up on her son, going against the main theme of hope and redemption that underlied the saga thusfar.

Snoke:

A villain seemingly older than time, a mysterious dark side user turns out to be nothing more than a plot device. This evil dark side master, who displays an awesome control of the Force, after showing his cunning, foresight, and inteligence, suddenly feels he’s invincible, and get’s cut down like a chump by his immature apprentice. Who he is, and where he came from is irrelevant now, I guess. The fact that this fool was somehow able to seduce Han and Leia’s son, and Luke’s student is completely glossed over. I suppose Kylo was just a bad egg.

I just don’t understand the praise for this film to be honest. It would be an entertaining blockbuster on it’s own, but as part of the now eight part saga it’s a massive letdown in my view, that not only undermines the six part Lucas saga, but TFA as well. I wish, I could love this movie like so many here, but ultimately this film doesn’t really respect what preceeded it in my view.

@DrDre : I fully share your opinion, thank you for putting very accurate words on how I feel about TLJ.

oops, not the right topic.
Deleted.

That Yoda puppet seemed a little off to me. My biggest hope for this movie was to see force ghost Ob-Wan and Anakin. I am glad we got to see Yoda, but showing a scene with Luke and his father would have been superb.

teharri said:

That Yoda puppet seemed a little off to me. My biggest hope for this movie was to see force ghost Ob-Wan and Anakin. I am glad we got to see Yoda, but showing a scene with Luke and his father would have been superb.

I agree, but I knew they wouldn’t bring Hayden Christensen or Ewan McGregor to reprise their roles. About the Yoda puppet, I felt like it looked pretty bad at first, but after some 3-5 seconds I had no problem with it at all.

adywan said:

The casino planet actually added quite a bit to the story and for what is to come. Little threads in the film that lead up to the ending and also showed that not everything is black and white (the resistance is dealing with the same people who deal with the first order). The resistance has now become the rebellion and is all but gone at the end of the film. Something that was said earlier on (and again later). “We are the spark that will light the fire that will burn the first order down”.

Canto Bight is a planet where the rich and elite congregate in luxurious overindulgence while the rest of the inhabitants live in extreme poverty and slavery, including the children. Finn and Roses interactions with those inhabitants is a major factor here. they show the willingness to fight for freedom. At the end we see the children telling their story and then a single child use the force to grab the broom, he has the rebellion ring. The seeds of rebellion are planted. So Finn and Rose are that spark that will light the fire that will burn the first order down.

There are so many little details that are easily missed on a single viewing. I’ll write a proper review once i have seen it again. So far i liked it.

It is nice that they added this moral grey area for the fipm, but wasn’t that the whole point of Rogue One, showing how imperfect both sides are? It makes sense (and honestly I think they did this whole idea a bit better than R1), it just was the weakest link in terms of the overall story and pacing.

Speaking of which, thought this movie was great, guess I’m going with the public opinion as this is my new favorite Star Wars movie. I just really liked the fact it took so many risks. Even the scene with Leia, while pretty cheesy, still made me cry and felt completely unpredictable for me. The writing and structure of this film is something to be disired, but it is made up for, in my eyes, with the many risks in trying to stay unpredictable and add lore to the saga. This film is probably the best directed in my opinion, clearly everyone was 100% when they were trying to bring their A game to this.

The one thing I’m on and off about is the cinematography. Unlike The Force Awakens which had some really great framing, so moments felt a bit off in terms of lighting. It is really good lighting, it just felt way too exagerated. Also anyone else who saw this in IMAX 3D, where the hell was the expanding aspect ratio. Saw this in a li-MAX theater, but they still opened it up in Force Awakens. I thought for sure the Crait battle was going to be it or Snoke’s death scene. Idk, if someone could get back to me on that, that would be fantastic.

Anywho, really loved it. Had a bunch of problems (most have already been addressed), but it didn’t detract from the movie for me at all. Definetly needs a second viewing and can’t wait to discuss further with the peeps here.

Chris Stuckmann was totally right about fans are going to mixed. Exhibit A…

Jedit: I forgot to ask, anyone else worried they might be setting up some weird love square between Rey, Finn, Poe, and Rose? The way they ended those specific characters moments felt like they where setting up something…

After reading the Phasma novel, I expected her to maintain her bad-assness she exhibited in the book.
After all she killed Hux’s dad. I thought she’d continue to kill up her rank and be Kylo’s true right hand woman.
But alas she got defeated by a once storm trooper garbage man turned rebel, after 2 minutes of screen time.

Is she really dead though?

People are going to warm up to this one. It’ll take some time, because it’s so different. But it will happen.

Deloreanhunter12 said:

adywan said:

The casino planet actually added quite a bit to the story and for what is to come. Little threads in the film that lead up to the ending and also showed that not everything is black and white (the resistance is dealing with the same people who deal with the first order). The resistance has now become the rebellion and is all but gone at the end of the film. Something that was said earlier on (and again later). “We are the spark that will light the fire that will burn the first order down”.

Canto Bight is a planet where the rich and elite congregate in luxurious overindulgence while the rest of the inhabitants live in extreme poverty and slavery, including the children. Finn and Roses interactions with those inhabitants is a major factor here. they show the willingness to fight for freedom. At the end we see the children telling their story and then a single child use the force to grab the broom, he has the rebellion ring. The seeds of rebellion are planted. So Finn and Rose are that spark that will light the fire that will burn the first order down.

There are so many little details that are easily missed on a single viewing. I’ll write a proper review once i have seen it again. So far i liked it.

It is nice that they added this moral grey area for the fipm, but wasn’t that the whole point of Rogue One, showing how imperfect both sides are? It makes sense (and honestly I think they did this whole idea a bit better than R1), it just was the weakest link in terms of the overall story and pacing.

Speaking of which, thought this movie was great, guess I’m going with the public opinion as this is my new favorite Star Wars movie. I just really liked the fact it took so many risks. Even the scene with Leia, while pretty cheesy, still made me cry and felt completely unpredictable for me. The writing and structure of this film is something to be disired, but it is made up for, in my eyes, with the many risks in trying to stay unpredictable and add lore to the saga. This film is probably the best directed in my opinion, clearly everyone was 100% when they were trying to bring their A game to this.

The one thing I’m on and off about is the cinematography. Unlike The Force Awakens which had some really great framing, so moments felt a bit off in terms of lighting. It is really good lighting, it just felt way too exagerated. Also anyone else who saw this in IMAX 3D, where the hell was the expanding aspect ratio. Saw this in a li-MAX theater, but they still opened it up in Force Awakens. I thought for sure the Crait battle was going to be it or Snoke’s death scene. Idk, if someone could get back to me on that, that would be fantastic.

Anywho, really loved it. Had a bunch of problems (most have already been addressed), but it didn’t detract from the movie for me at all. Definetly needs a second viewing and can’t wait to discuss further with the peeps here.

Chris Stuckmann was totally right about fans are going to mixed. Exhibit A…

Jedit: I forgot to ask, anyone else worried they might be setting up some weird love square between Rey, Finn, Poe, and Rose? The way they ended those specific characters moments felt like they where setting up something…

Re: IMAX, the aspect ratio didn’t open up. I was a little upset about this, but maybe it was Johnson’s creative choice? Any idea if he likes shifting AR’s?