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Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 91

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Here’s a new method to approaching these films.

I’m going tomorrow, and I’ve already spoiled myself rotten. Every twist, every story beat, every surprise cameo and reference. It’s all in my mind.

Now what my focus as a viewer is on is how well these events are executed and strung together in the composition of a film. Sure, I’m not that happy with where a few things went, but I’ll be more keen to just accepted as what it is - a movie - once I’m in the theater. I don’t know, maybe I’ll like it more.

Seeking only the most natural looking colors for Star Wars '77

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Jackpumpkinhead said:

It’s sad that because of this community I can never watch a Star Wars film without thinking of how I would edit it. I already have at least one definite edit I would make. More Green is all I will say

I haven’t seen it yet (will be in less than a day) but I know what your talking about. Someone like yourself with better special effects skills who could recolor Luke’s saber at the end to green would be awesome 😃. I also am curious if we will get any extra action of Luke in the deleted scenes. Rian Johnson said he has MANY deleted scenes that will be on the blu-ray and he said he even had to cut out entire sequences so that’s pretty cool and might serve for some good fan editing material.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

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Just saw it here in Germany. Oh man. I‘m so disappointed. Too much humor, too less Star Wars… and too much boring and unnecessary side-kick arcs…

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 (Edited)

I enjoyed it - it certainly isn’t a re-hash of what has gone before, and has taken some risks.

Surprisingly there were some CGI issues in a couple of places - though will be interesting to see if they are as noticeable on a 2nd sitting - or when eventually viewed at home.

I liked the humour in the main, the Canto Bight section didn’t quite work for me - though an intriguing end.

There were a couple of convenient plot stretches - like the CGI above - I’ll await a 2nd viewing to see if they are as noticeable.

Episode IX certainly has a lot to do - and wrap up (if it chooses to).

Very much looking forward to seeing TLJ again soon.
 

I think a few of the Fan Editors on here will be quite busy - given that the film may generate a few differing approaches and attitudes to what they would like to take from, and aim towards with, this movie…

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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So I just saw it. It was pretty much perfect, no flaws whatsoever, my favourite Star Wars film now. I swear I’m not fanboying, I’m pretty set in my opinion, unlike Rogue One. I’m sure my opinion of it will diminish in further viewings but for now I’m comfortable saying I like it the most out of the films. I did find it funny how Snap Wexley I think, a major character in the books, is killed off so nonchalantly. Good thing I never liked his character much.

Not enough people read the EU.

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LuckyGungan2001 said:

So I just saw it. It was pretty much perfect, no flaws whatsoever, my favourite Star Wars film now. I swear I’m not fanboying, I’m pretty set in my opinion, unlike Rogue One. I’m sure my opinion of it will diminish in further viewings but for now I’m comfortable saying I like it the most out of the films. I did find it funny how Snap Wexley I think, a major character in the books, is killed off so nonchalantly. Good thing I never liked his character much.

Good to hear you liked it a lot. My hype right now is seeping from every pore of my body. After first hearing that Luke never actually attacks Kylo in the final fight, I was a bit disappointed, but it sounds just perfect to me now. “A Jedi uses the force only for defense…never for attack.” It shows he grows to become a true Jedi master who uses his godlike powers to save what’s left of the resistance and his friends. Tomorrow night cannot come sooner.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

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Spoilers!!!

As a huge star wars fan, I sat there cringing and bored for the first 30 minutes of the film. Also, the one line jokes were abit much… Maybe I was expecting a more “dark” film given the title.

I felt the whole Finn and Rose scenes were pointless plots to fill in the film.

Loved the Luke scenes, and i had an emotional moment when Luke and Leia were on scene together.

Loving how we get to see kylo Ren develop into a darker character. Just wished he kept the helmet. It’s sick!!!

Yoda as always shared his wisdom to us all!

Also the red guard/royal guard were a nice add to the film.

Will have to watch again but I feel that TFA was a better overall movie. May need to add after a 2nd viewing.

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oojason said:

I think a few of the Fan Editors on here will be quite busy - given that the film may generate a few differing approaches and attitudes to what they would like to take from, and aim towards with, this movie…

Fan editors are going to have to work overtime. Most of them try to remove almost all of the humor from the films, which is going to be quite a challenge in this one! I agree 100% with your take on the movie btw.

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Good people - there is now a ‘The Last Jedi : Fan Edit Ideas - SPOILERS INSIDE’ thread - that some people may wish to also post in, here:-

The Last Jedi : Fan Edit Ideas - ** SPOILERS INSIDE **

 

Thank you, Tomo

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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Full Spoilers Opinion Rant Incoming (sorry for length):

After 1 viewing (at midnight when I was tired for full disclosure) here are my thoughts and personal opinions.
Note that I am not a critique or an OT purist. I like all the fun adventure of TFA, the political intrigue and eye candy of the prequels and the classicness of the OT (sue me).
Overall I liked it, its great. But there are some weird things which I’m just not sure about.

The comedy didn’t feel forced but natural and made me laugh. I especially liked Hux and his comedic conflicts with Poe and later Ren.
But, the Porgs felt unnecessary. I didn’t find them to be cute (I’m cuteness intolerant in general) but they weren’t annoying either. Maybe made me chuckle once or twice. However, their CG design just wasn’t up to scratch and became an eyesore when they were just sitting there on a real set.

Luke and his inner conflict was great. This was also well explored with his relationships with Rey and Ren. Overall the relationships between Luke, Rey and Ren was the best subplot of the film. Really well done.
However, I was disappointed with the lack of backstory to Lukes former Jedi school. While the 3 different versions of what happened on that night was a neat idea, I can imagine it becoming tedious to rewatch what is basically the same tent scene multiple times in future viewings (unconfirmed though). Also, the only Jedi school backstory we saw was that scene in the tent thing, but no Knights of Ren or anything else which felt disappointing and underdeveloped.

The scene in Snokes throne room had good action. I really liked the fighting choreography and I was in suspense on who would turn light side or dark side.
But, Snoke himself was very poorly handled. His CGI face looked ‘off’, his lack of backstory was very disappointing and made him a hard character to connect with, consequently, I didn’t care about his death which should’ve felt more momentous. Also, whats with Snokes shiny gold suit/jacket? It just looked bad.

The Yoda scene was…interesting. I LOVE the way the scene played out: Luke about to burn Jedi history, Yoda confronts him, Yoda burns Jedi history which then makes Luke realise that he does care about the Jedi. Very smart.
But this also left me confused. From memory, it is decided between Luke and Yoda that the Jedi should end, but at the end of the film Luke declares Rey to be the last Jedi (so are the Jedi still a thing or not?). Also, I have no idea if Yoda was a puppet or CG, I mean this in a bad way. Yoda looked like CG made to look like a puppet (my opinion). Yoda just didn’t look quite right to me, but there again he is a little green alien.

Very quickly, I’m torn about Luke’s death. It felt underexplained, out of left field and consequently unfair as it seemed like he died for no reason. But at the same time I can respect the mysteries of the force that the movie earlier set up. The force hologram was cool and made for cool action and reveal, but I’m just still not sure about if I prefer the mysteries of the force or needing new force powers to be better explained and fleshed out.

The visuals, cinematography, music and acting are all masterful! I especially loved the red dust exploding during the Krayt battle, the lightspeed suicide bomber moment and opening bombers attack on the dreadnaught.
My only downside in this department is that while I remember the music sounding good, I can’t remember any new tunes which I can hum (but only after 1 viewing at midnight).

In terms of story; the bad is the entire Finn/Rose/Casino arc, the good is just about everything else.
The entire films pacing felt weird, and while I can appreciate them trying a new sort of story structure it just may take some getting used to. I could’ve sworn that the film was minutes from ending after the throne room battle and then the lightspeed suicide attack. It really did feel like the film was about to end (not remembering that the Krayt battle was still to come).
Also, the film felt really long which may be due to the unfamiliar structure and pacing. It felt like the film was a half hour too long, and it just so happens that there was a half hour arc that was completely uneventful (casino).

Casino/Finn/Rose arc Rant
The Casino arc was pointless!

  1. How does Poe know Maz Kanata and why do him and Finn think she can help.
  2. The arc had lots of real world commentary about animal cruelty and people making money off of war which personally felt out of place but that may be just me.
  3. DJ was uninteresting, had no charisma (again my opinion) and disappeared at the end anyways leaving no impact.
  4. The alien horses didn’t look the best and really felt completely unattached from the rest of the film.
  5. The entire arc accomplished nothing: they didn’t complete their mission, they didn’t interact with other main characters making them feel detached from the main story, and their actions didn’t impact the story (Phasma dying was meaningless).
  6. Finn and Rose didn’t grow at all as characters which was a big missed opportunity and time waster. Finn started off by acting like a cool guy who’s full of himself (acting like a war hero when trying to get to escape pod) and ending acting like a cool guy who’s full of himself (he might as well have said a cheese '90’s action movie line when he killed Phasma), Rose started off by adoring Finn and ended still adoring Finn (granted for 5 seconds she thought he was a traitor but this is very quickly forgotten) while Finn’s feelings toward her barely changed (a glance at her unconcious body doesn’t mean much). And while Finn does learn that greed and gambling is a by-product of War or something, this does not impact the story, his relationships or probably long-term character at all.
    I could go on but ultimately I just felt that the Casino arc was meaningless, uneventful and the least interesting part of the movie.

On the good side, the film had lots of really cool moments that I just loved. I loved all of the battles and again the lightspeed suicide attack (although this does bring up plotholes about it being an overpowered but underutilised attack method).

I could probably go on but I’m starting to forget some things. I really want to see the film again just to grasp my head around everything.
I will conclude by saying that the film is great but for each group of great stuff there is a section of it that feels not fleshed out. I.e. lots of great characters and relationships but Finn, Rose, DJ and Snoke fail in many reagrds, and the overall story is good but the Casino just doesn’t work for me.

Also the final shot is absolute bulls&*% (broom boy). It’s barely relevant to the film (and only relevant to, in my opinion, the worst part of the film), If there is a message about ‘hope’ or ‘legends never dying’ it was never fleshed out enough, I feel like it’s just trying to sell toys or is at least focused towards kids only, and I am 99% sure that they are trying to shoehorn in a tease for episodes 10/11/12 which is far too soon and uneccessary.

Thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts!

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I really envy all you with eloquent reactions.

Saw it last night (UK) and I’m still reeling…

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GlastoEls said:

I really envy all you with eloquent reactions.

Saw it last night (UK) and I’m still reeling…

The UK isn’t that bad mate - I know things have been tough the last 10 years, and the cuts to everything over the last 7 especially, plus, yes - the weather is always shite… yet UK cinemas are still decent to watch a film in… oh… hang on you’re talking about the film itself…

😉

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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oojason said:

GlastoEls said:

I really envy all you with eloquent reactions.

Saw it last night (UK) and I’m still reeling…

The UK isn’t that bad mate - I know things have been tough the last 10 years, and the cuts to everything over the last 7 especially, plus, yes - the weather is always shite… yet UK cinemas are still decent to watch a film in… oh… hang on you’re talking about the film itself…

😉

That just made me laugh!

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GlastoEls said:

I really envy all you with eloquent reactions.

Saw it last night (UK) and I’m still reeling…

I can’t tell if that’s a good thing or a bad thing.

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After three visions, this is what I can say (trying not to spoil too much, but a bit anyway):

This film is, with regard to the form as the content, a rupture with the previous films:

-With regard to the contents:
o all stories tell and show that you have to be free from the past:
 -Forgetting the Jedi and their order
 -Questioning the authority and the established order
 -Breaking what is built
O All “historical” characters are challenged
 -They are turned into derisory
 -They die
 -Their authority is challenged
 -They refuse to remain heroes and want to pass the hand, or be forgotten, or both
o The very notion of filiation is treated in this way
 -The answer to the origins of Rey (who are his parents) goes in this direction
 -Kylo explains his whole approach by the need to free himself from his father, and no longer seeks to be a new Vader

-With regard to the form
o all the visual and narrative codes of the “Star Wars visual grammar” are defeated or rejected
 - There is no longer slide transitions between the plans (except for 2 ou 3 plans)
 - There are flashbacks
 - The story resumes where it had stopped (there is no longer a temporal ellipse narrated in the introductory text)
 - The texts of the posters were in red
 - The film is much longer than usual (152 minutes)

O Several plans are humorous (eg: close-up on a iron) or dreamlike (ex: Flying Leia, this dreamlike plan is for me the biggest failure of this film)
O Several plans contain “human” references (e.g. Arabic numerals on the gauge of Poe’s ship and on the gateways of the imperial vessel - edit: ZkinandBonez pointed that there were also arabic numerals in the OT; champagne bottles at the casino, piano music at the casino, irons)
o We multiply the plot arcs (where, previously, there were one or two stories to follow, there is now much more that intermingle)

Unfortunately, if it is good to destroy everything, then we have to propose something new. And here, in my opinion, there is a problem. The director does not innovate at all, on the contrary: it multiplies the common visual effects (eg: jumps in space of a cohort of ships that recalls Battlestar Galactica 2004, slow-accelerated in a “Matrix” way, fields-contrefields filled with Philosophical Dialogues in a “Star Trek” way, humorous shots just like “Space Balls” or punchlines similar to the “Guardians of the Galaxy”…)
But nothing new, original or proprietary in all this. We are clearly no longer in a Star Wars visual grammar, but in a good SF film fairly anonymous on the form.

There remains an interesting and well conducted story (despite a few lengths that we would gladly avoid) that shows, repeatedly during 2H32, operations that are doomed to failure. Failures whom, paradoxically, the accumulation will lead to a victory: all the acts of rebellion fail miserably one after the other (loss of the Bombers then of the entire fleet, inability to escape from the tracking, operation “find the hacker” which is sold by a fiasco, operation “hacking” in the Imperial ship that also fails, final battle on Crait which is sold by a breakaway, failing to have been able to destroy the enemy cannon …)
But the film shows that the approach of rebellion as such is more important than the result obtained. It is this approach, this mindset, that will allow to swarm with a new generation. In short: the mindset is more important than the result. We are in an anti-Sartre story: We are not the sum of our actions, but the sum of our intentions.

Finally, the interest in this film lies in the close relationship between form and substance: The director himself probably fails to propose anything new, but his approach of rupture (of rebellion) is nonetheless interesting, laudable and probably beneficial in the long term for the Star Wars franchise, just as in the story he tells us.

For the rest, I enjoyed the dialogues, the first half hour, some visually impressive shots (eg: some use of light speed at the end of the film), and the direction of actors.

In short, it is and upsetting film: neither any good, nor any bad, but disappointing to want to destroy everything without being truly able to propose something new. I sometimes felt that the director was a little too ambitious: if Denis Villeneuve managed to reinvent Blade Runner without saying that he was, Rian Johnson fails to reinvent Star Wars while, for two and a half hours, he tells us he will do it.

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ZigZig said:

Several plans contain “human” references (e.g. Arabic numerals on the gauge of Poe’s ship and on the gateways of the imperial vessel; champagne bottles at the casino, piano music at the casino, irons)

SW has always used Arabic numerals.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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Haynick888 said:

But, the Porgs felt unnecessary. I didn’t find them to be cute (I’m cuteness intolerant in general) but they weren’t annoying either. Maybe made me chuckle once or twice. However, their CG design just wasn’t up to scratch and became an eyesore when they were just sitting there on a real set.

I’m pretty sure the Porgs were puppets 98% of the time, the only exceptions being when they flew or moved their feet.

Haynick888 said:

The Yoda scene was…interesting. I LOVE the way the scene played out: Luke about to burn Jedi history, Yoda confronts him, Yoda burns Jedi history which then makes Luke realise that he does care about the Jedi. Very smart.
But this also left me confused. From memory, it is decided between Luke and Yoda that the Jedi should end, but at the end of the film Luke declares Rey to be the last Jedi (so are the Jedi still a thing or not?). Also, I have no idea if Yoda was a puppet or CG, I mean this in a bad way. Yoda looked like CG made to look like a puppet (my opinion). Yoda just didn’t look quite right to me, but there again he is a little green alien.

I never thought about Yoda being a CG-puppet. Might explain a few things, but I do think he was an actual puppet.

However I do think the two biggest oddities was his colour and his size/shape. He seemed to be a much darker green than he was in ESB and ROTJ, though that might be a result of the Force-ghost effect. Secondly he seemed, for the lack of a better word, “chubbier” than he used to be. I don’t think they got the dimensions of the original puppet quite right. He also seemed to have been made of a much more plastic-looking material than the original puppet (which was foam-latex I think). Though Johnson seems to have committed to making Yoda a puppet I don’t think he fully committed to it. Directors used to be much better at working with practical effects, but nowadays they’re so used to fixing things digitally that they just kind of expect everything to work out flawlessly and fail to adapt to the technology while they’re shooting.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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ZkinandBonez said:

ZigZig said:

Several plans contain “human” references (e.g. Arabic numerals on the gauge of Poe’s ship and on the gateways of the imperial vessel; champagne bottles at the casino, piano music at the casino, irons)

SW has always used Arabic numerals.

OK! Maybe this time it was too much for me…
PS: was it replaced by Aurebesh alphabet in the SE ?

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Saw it last night at a midnight showing and after really enjoying The Force Awakens and Rogue One, I had high hopes for this. Massive hopes because I was looking forward to a film with a similar tone to TFA but I came out of the cinema with ‘Phantom Menace’ level of bewilderment.

Some things in this film even reminded me of Superman 4. :gag:

Really disappointing for me. I’ve heard many reviews say ‘the most un-star wars film’ but when I watch Star Wars, I kinda wanna see Star Wars. Massive shame.
The Porgs were a definete exercise by Disney to enter that Toy Market. May as well as called them Hatchimals and be done with it.

The beginning…took me right out the film with the conversation with Po and General Hux, turning Hux from a fearsome Adolf Hitler type figure into a parody within the first 2 minutes.
Luke just chucking away the Saber - metaphorically it seems this film was metaphorically dicing and throwing away all the goodwill from The Force Awakens. Getting rid of Snoke, throwing away the Sabers, acknowledging that anyone can use the force rather than just the Jedi or the Sith.

The ending with the kids looking up to the Sky and having a ring with the Rebel insignia reminded me of the many adverts you see on Disney Channel “be a rebel today with new whizz bang light saber from Mattell” or whatever.

It’s literally Episode 5 and Episode 6 in one film

Ade Edmondson…I’m a massive fan of Bottom which was years ago of course, but I’m used to British Officers being chocked off in the first scene and if they do last the whole film. At least have someone who isnt going to remind you of being hit over the head with a frying pan by his mate Richie.

About the kids at the end…despite this being a complete re-invention of the Star Wars and being the most un-star wars film there is. Even the prequels had a better tone (but awful execution) - but despite all that, it’s the first star wars film with actual swearing!

Princess Leia, sure, she’s a force user but it’s never been established she’s had training. But even so, could anyone survive being in Space? I actually quite liked the fact they didnt kill her off as everyone expected it. But crikey, a massively cringeworhy moment.
A strange, weird film.
Yoda…like I said, TPM level of bewilderment. The Puppet was better when it had flames around him as if the film-makers realised it just wasnt working.
BB8 piloting an AT-ST - jesus christ.

I have to see it again to confirm I wasnt being delusional by the 12:01AM start.

A fan edit though would save it though…just remove the endless comedy. Leia proving anyone can breath in space and the Luke slapstick.

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 (Edited)

ZigZig said:

ZkinandBonez said:

ZigZig said:

Several plans contain “human” references (e.g. Arabic numerals on the gauge of Poe’s ship and on the gateways of the imperial vessel; champagne bottles at the casino, piano music at the casino, irons)

SW has always used Arabic numerals.

OK! Maybe this time it was too much for me…
PS: was it replaced by Aurebesh alphabet in the SE ?

The English letters, yes, but the Arabic numerals were kept the same.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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One can actually survive being in space for a very short period of time. It’s not the bloody explosion that’s been glorified in other sci fi films.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Just got back from seeing this, WOW was it bad! I had hoped they would of fixed some of the problems everyone had with The Force Awakens & Rogue One but they’ve totally ignored everyones criticism. This saga has now firmly shifted it’s vision & tone in a new direction that just isn’t for me. I’m no longer interested in these characters or where the story goes from now so I wont be going to the cinema to see the next chapter. RIP Star Wars
2/5

cringeworthy comedy
General Hux pantomime villain
Luke milking an aliens udder
Super Leia
Ugly puppet yoda
Snoke throw away villain #1
Phasma throw away villain #2
Luke throw away Hero #1
bad, bad, bad… plus many more moments that left me shaking my head.

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Sadly, I completely agree. I feel like Star Wars has died somewhat!