The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 142

kozloz said:

I enjoyed TFA. It was a rehash of Episode 4 yeah but wasn’t that kind of the point?

History does repeat itself. It’s not a smart move thematically, but it does make sense realistically. But we all knew coming into this film that it would be soft-reboot and play it safe. This is perfectly fine if they go in new directions for VIII and IX.

(I was going to post something, but it’s from TLJ teaser and I guess it might be considered a spoiler, so I edited it out…)

kozloz said:

I enjoyed TFA. It was a rehash of Episode 4 yeah but wasn’t that kind of the point?

I found it to be more a re-telling of all three OT films…

This is pretty decent in explaining why (just for consideration) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pueu2wu0M5s (and only 3 minutes long - and also saves me typing out a lot of words! 😉)

I can understand why they went for that - Disney had paid $4b for the franchise, and likely didn’t want to take financial risks with their 1st SW film - whilst also wanting their new films to be of a standard, feel and quality more akin to the Original Trilogy, than the Prequels. Get the familiar beats in there, a director who’d done well with rebooting a tricky Star Trek franchise, and a ton of PR bigging up - and paying homage and tribute to - the Original Trilogy.

And THEN evolve the films in the following stories/films - taking more chances (ie, Rogue One - where the theme, content, style and ‘modernisation’ - as well as aspects not previously shown before, ie the ‘grey’ or dark’ in the Rebellion - the unpleasant face of the Alliance) - with later films.

Here’s to a somewhat different story to what we have seen before with Star Wars in The Last Jedi… 😃

Huh.

oojason said:

also wanting their new films to be of a standard, feel and quality more akin to the Original Trilogy, than the Prequels.

But it eventually ended up being worse than PT. TFA “plot” is a complete trainwreck and any PT plot seems like a “masterpiece” in comparison. It takes a lot more than rehashing stuff from OT and randomly throwing it together in order to come close to OT quality.

imperialscum said:

oojason said:

also wanting their new films to be of a standard, feel and quality more akin to the Original Trilogy, than the Prequels.

But it eventually ended up being worse than PT. TFA “plot” is a complete trainwreck and any PT plot seems like a “masterpiece” in comparison. It takes a lot more than rehashing stuff from OT and randomly throwing it together in order to come close to OT quality.

Cool, thanks.

TFA is like force mind trick. It works only on…

imperialscum said:

TFA is like force mind trick. It works only on…

those who don’t do grammar good?

SilverWook said:

Totally didn’t know this existed.
http://disneymusic.shop.musictoday.com/product/XVCS03/star-wars-the-force-awakens-cassette?cp=81712_82104

joefavs said:

Yeah, I’ve been seeing more and more cassettes lately, starting with a Purple Rain reissue right after Prince died. I get a kick out of making the occasional mixtape, but I can’t imagine actually buying anything on that format.

cool find SilverWook, like joefavs said it seems the humble music tape is on bit of a revival - and it started me on a search once more for something a little different to store Star Wars stuff on - and ended on knocking up this cover…

http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1068419 (more info and pics in the link)

Long live the tape! (and the tape boxes they came in) 😉

I found TFA to be an almost excessively ‘meta’ denunciation of the PT era cinematic franchise beholden to far too many of the cliches and painful trappings of modern blockbusters…including elements of the Prequels. If there’s any dispute, the first line of dialogue in the film, from Lor San Tekka, was ‘this will begin to make things right. I’ve seen too much despair’.

Phasma was entirely unnecessary to the plot, serving purely as a Boba Fett surrogate-slash-merchandising tie-in. Gwendoline Christie, who portrays such a unique and strong warrior, Brienne of Tarth, in ‘Game of Thrones’, deserved far better than this silliness. BB-8, similarly, was another aesthetic ‘selling point’ to orient a younger audience. BB-8 was executed pretty well, in all fairness, but the design and its off-putting designation/name were more oriented for a Pixar release than Star Wars.

The film arduously inserted mystery and myth into the narrative (likely in reaction to the overly-explained and expository nature of the Prequels). However, ‘The Force Awakens’ sense of mystery and unconnected dots led to an often vapid narrative. Rey’s untold parentage and lack of identity were as troubling as they were needless. We were subject to a trilogy of movies in which the origins of the protagonist were also shrouded in unresolved mystery and an original set of films which turned its protagonist’s sense of identity on its head three times (father as space navigator, then noble Jedi Knight who fell in combat against the antagonist, then the very villain himself). Rey’s parentage, other than that they were likely Jedi based upon her flashback, was simply confused and directionless, rendering her a no-one in the process.

Similarly, TFA’s mythology simply didn’t provide considerable interest, as it was entirely what was presented in the Original Trilogy (e.g., Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader, the Force and the Jedi Knights). But it was not without its own original mythology, as we were presented with Luke’s failed attempt at reviving the Jedi, Snoke, Ben Solo’s fall and his ancestry’s impact on his transformation into Kylo Ren, the Knights of Ren, Han and Leia’s separation in the face of their son’s descent into Dark Side extremism, the First Order’s origins from the vestiges of the Empire, the nature of The New Republic and the Resistance, Lor San Tekka and Maz Kanata’s origins and role in galactic affairs, et al.). All of this could have more fully exploited to have created a richer and more rewarding exposition and sense of mythology. Instead, it was ultimately all unfilled spaces and uncrossed 't’s.

Rey’s alleged status as an almost infallible ‘Mary Sue’ should also be mentioned. While many of her abilities were indeed relative sufficiently explained by her rough and self-sufficient way of life on Jakku (including staff combat, some modicum of piloting skills, etc.), her extraordinary and innate prowess often recalled Anakin’s prodigious excess throughout the Prequels (particularly ‘The Phantom Menace’). Her use of The Force, like Anakin’s, was innate rather than, like Luke’s in the original Star Wars, learnt and guided by instruction.

As for other modern cinematic trappings and cringe-worthy adaptations thereof, the movie was inundated with Marvel Cinematic Universe-styled witless humour. This was not Star Wars-signature humour as illustrated by Leia and Han’s duelling witty barbs or C-3PO and R2-D2’s comic relief (or even the barbs and dated racial and toilet humour of the Prequels). It all proved jarring, although I still enjoyed Boyega’s performance and Han’s ‘that’s not how The Force works’ line, as it further depicted the once Force sceptic rogue’s maturation into a dispenser of knowledge of that very ‘hokey religion’.

On that note, the narrative highlight of the film was Han’s aforementioned transformation and simultaneous regression and rediscovery of his earlier smuggling ways. The Han Solo of ‘The Force Awakens’ wasn’t the uncannily orderly, institutional and respectable figure of ‘Return of the Jedi’ or the old EU (‘Legends’) works set after it. This was a complex and nuanced character who both grew and yet didn’t change, and lost and gained. His very namesake, however, saw the most crucial character development in our old scruffy-looking Nerf Herder. Han ‘Solo’ was now a man with a family…and torn asunder by its collapse. Han indeed sacrificed himself in death, and in a way both suiting and advancing to his character, by defying the odds and any logic in boldly confronting his mass-murdering, hateful son. In Han’s most desperate, touching, and cocky, move, he died.

Kylo Ren also played on the expectations of a Star Wars villain in often masterful ways. His is a vulnerable ‘menace’ who hides behind a mask he doesn’t need to advance his newfound identity. His Force powers are unorthodox and unexpected. Otherwise, Kylo is vulnerable, weak, and conflicted. He is also a ‘meta’ figure, in that he is a parallel for the Westerner who zealously and inexplicably adopts militant Jihadism. His extreme rage is authentic and unpredictable, as opposed to Anakin’s hackneyed ‘anger’.

Leia was soundly underutilised, as were C-3PO and R2-D2. Once more, Chewbacca was not given his due from Leia, who did not greet him particularly warmly upon his return with Rey. It is hoped that they filmed scenes between the two characters for ‘The Last Jedi’, as there is now no chance for that in future after Carrie’s untimely demise.

Luke Skywalker and his family’s iconic lightsaber served as an archetype and plot device. Honestly, this was pretty novel…and, once more, ‘meta’ (embodying the reclaiming of the ‘old’ Star Wars).

In conclusion, ‘The Force Awakens’ was a severely challenged film, but one which nonetheless offered critical character and narrative developments and, in the case of Han, conclusion. At long last, Star Wars boasts skillful acting in all areas and respectability. Its dependence on the core narrative of the original Star Wars film, setting the tone for the new, revitalized franchise, and unfortunate immersion into some of the modern industry’s worst elements, will require its sequel to truly advance the new characters and their story to something of greater originality and interest.

Colin_1977 said:

I found TFA to be an almost excessively ‘meta’ denunciation of the PT era cinematic franchise beholden to far too many of the cliches and painful trappings of modern blockbusters…including elements of the Prequels. If there’s any dispute, the first line of dialogue in the film, from Lor San Tekka, was ‘this will begin to make things right. I’ve seen too much despair’.

Phasma was entirely unnecessary to the plot, serving purely as a Boba Fett surrogate-slash-merchandising tie-in. Gwendoline Christie, who portrays such a unique and strong warrior, Brienne of Tarth, in ‘Game of Thrones’, deserved far better than this silliness. BB-8, similarly, was another aesthetic ‘selling point’ to orient a younger audience. BB-8 was executed pretty well, in all fairness, but the design and its off-putting designation/name were more oriented for a Pixar release than Star Wars.

The film arduously inserted mystery and myth into the narrative (likely in reaction to the overly-explained and expository nature of the Prequels). However, ‘The Force Awakens’ sense of mystery and unconnected dots led to an often vapid narrative. Rey’s untold parentage and lack of identity were as troubling as they were needless. We were subject to a trilogy of movies in which the origins of the protagonist were also shrouded in unresolved mystery and an original set of films which turned its protagonist’s sense of identity on its head three times (father as space navigator, then noble Jedi Knight who fell in combat against the antagonist, then the very villain himself). Rey’s parentage, other than that they were likely Jedi based upon her flashback, was simply confused and directionless, rendering her a no-one in the process.

Similarly, TFA’s mythology simply didn’t provide considerable interest, as it was entirely what was presented in the Original Trilogy (e.g., Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader, the Force and the Jedi Knights). But it was not without its own original mythology, as we were presented with Luke’s failed attempt at reviving the Jedi, Snoke, Ben Solo’s fall and his ancestry’s impact on his transformation into Kylo Ren, the Knights of Ren, Han and Leia’s separation in the face of their son’s descent into Dark Side extremism, the First Order’s origins from the vestiges of the Empire, the nature of The New Republic and the Resistance, Lor San Tekka and Maz Kanata’s origins and role in galactic affairs, et al.). All of this could have more fully exploited to have created a richer and more rewarding exposition and sense of mythology. Instead, it was ultimately all unfilled spaces and uncrossed 't’s.

Rey’s alleged status as an almost infallible ‘Mary Sue’ should also be mentioned. While many of her abilities were indeed relative sufficiently explained by her rough and self-sufficient way of life on Jakku (including staff combat, some modicum of piloting skills, etc.), her extraordinary and innate prowess often recalled Anakin’s prodigious excess throughout the Prequels (particularly ‘The Phantom Menace’). Her use of The Force, like Anakin’s, was innate rather than, like Luke’s in the original Star Wars, learnt and guided by instruction.

As for other modern cinematic trappings and cringe-worthy adaptations thereof, the movie was inundated with Marvel Cinematic Universe-styled witless humour. This was not Star Wars-signature humour as illustrated by Leia and Han’s duelling witty barbs or C-3PO and R2-D2’s comic relief (or even the barbs and dated racial and toilet humour of the Prequels). It all proved jarring, although I still enjoyed Boyega’s performance and Han’s ‘that’s not how The Force works’ line, as it further depicted the once Force sceptic rogue’s maturation into a dispenser of knowledge of that very ‘hokey religion’.

On that note, the narrative highlight of the film was Han’s aforementioned transformation and simultaneous regression and rediscovery of his earlier smuggling ways. The Han Solo of ‘The Force Awakens’ wasn’t the uncannily orderly, institutional and respectable figure of ‘Return of the Jedi’ or the old EU (‘Legends’) works set after it. This was a complex and nuanced character who both grew and yet didn’t change, and lost and gained. His very namesake, however, saw the most crucial character development in our old scruffy-looking Nerf Herder. Han ‘Solo’ was now a man with a family…and torn asunder by its collapse. Han indeed sacrificed himself in death, and in a way both suiting and advancing to his character, by defying the odds and any logic in boldly confronting his mass-murdering, hateful son. In Han’s most desperate, touching, and cocky, move, he died.

Kylo Ren also played on the expectations of a Star Wars villain in often masterful ways. His is a vulnerable ‘menace’ who hides behind a mask he doesn’t need to advance his newfound identity. His Force powers are unorthodox and unexpected. Otherwise, Kylo is vulnerable, weak, and conflicted. He is also a ‘meta’ figure, in that he is a parallel for the Westerner who zealously and inexplicably adopts militant Jihadism. His extreme rage is authentic and unpredictable, as opposed to Anakin’s hackneyed ‘anger’.

Leia was soundly underutilised, as were C-3PO and R2-D2. Once more, Chewbacca was not given his due from Leia, who did not greet him particularly warmly upon his return with Rey. It is hoped that they filmed scenes between the two characters for ‘The Last Jedi’, as there is now no chance for that in future after Carrie’s untimely demise.

Luke Skywalker and his family’s iconic lightsaber served as an archetype and plot device. Honestly, this was pretty novel…and, once more, ‘meta’ (embodying the reclaiming of the ‘old’ Star Wars).

In conclusion, ‘The Force Awakens’ was a severely challenged film, but one which nonetheless offered critical character and narrative developments and, in the case of Han, conclusion. At long last, Star Wars boasts skillful acting in all areas and respectability. Its dependence on the core narrative of the original Star Wars film, setting the tone for the new, revitalized franchise, and unfortunate immersion into some of the modern industry’s worst elements, will require its sequel to truly advance the new characters and their story to something of greater originality and interest.

I agree with much of this.

As for Phasma’s character, wouldn’t it have been great if she were the one to fight Finn at Maz’s castle instead of TR-8R? She was on the set and everything!

NeverarGreat said:

Colin_1977 said:

I found TFA to be an almost excessively ‘meta’ denunciation of the PT era cinematic franchise beholden to far too many of the cliches and painful trappings of modern blockbusters…including elements of the Prequels. If there’s any dispute, the first line of dialogue in the film, from Lor San Tekka, was ‘this will begin to make things right. I’ve seen too much despair’.

Phasma was entirely unnecessary to the plot, serving purely as a Boba Fett surrogate-slash-merchandising tie-in. Gwendoline Christie, who portrays such a unique and strong warrior, Brienne of Tarth, in ‘Game of Thrones’, deserved far better than this silliness. BB-8, similarly, was another aesthetic ‘selling point’ to orient a younger audience. BB-8 was executed pretty well, in all fairness, but the design and its off-putting designation/name were more oriented for a Pixar release than Star Wars.

The film arduously inserted mystery and myth into the narrative (likely in reaction to the overly-explained and expository nature of the Prequels). However, ‘The Force Awakens’ sense of mystery and unconnected dots led to an often vapid narrative. Rey’s untold parentage and lack of identity were as troubling as they were needless. We were subject to a trilogy of movies in which the origins of the protagonist were also shrouded in unresolved mystery and an original set of films which turned its protagonist’s sense of identity on its head three times (father as space navigator, then noble Jedi Knight who fell in combat against the antagonist, then the very villain himself). Rey’s parentage, other than that they were likely Jedi based upon her flashback, was simply confused and directionless, rendering her a no-one in the process.

Similarly, TFA’s mythology simply didn’t provide considerable interest, as it was entirely what was presented in the Original Trilogy (e.g., Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader, the Force and the Jedi Knights). But it was not without its own original mythology, as we were presented with Luke’s failed attempt at reviving the Jedi, Snoke, Ben Solo’s fall and his ancestry’s impact on his transformation into Kylo Ren, the Knights of Ren, Han and Leia’s separation in the face of their son’s descent into Dark Side extremism, the First Order’s origins from the vestiges of the Empire, the nature of The New Republic and the Resistance, Lor San Tekka and Maz Kanata’s origins and role in galactic affairs, et al.). All of this could have more fully exploited to have created a richer and more rewarding exposition and sense of mythology. Instead, it was ultimately all unfilled spaces and uncrossed 't’s.

Rey’s alleged status as an almost infallible ‘Mary Sue’ should also be mentioned. While many of her abilities were indeed relative sufficiently explained by her rough and self-sufficient way of life on Jakku (including staff combat, some modicum of piloting skills, etc.), her extraordinary and innate prowess often recalled Anakin’s prodigious excess throughout the Prequels (particularly ‘The Phantom Menace’). Her use of The Force, like Anakin’s, was innate rather than, like Luke’s in the original Star Wars, learnt and guided by instruction.

As for other modern cinematic trappings and cringe-worthy adaptations thereof, the movie was inundated with Marvel Cinematic Universe-styled witless humour. This was not Star Wars-signature humour as illustrated by Leia and Han’s duelling witty barbs or C-3PO and R2-D2’s comic relief (or even the barbs and dated racial and toilet humour of the Prequels). It all proved jarring, although I still enjoyed Boyega’s performance and Han’s ‘that’s not how The Force works’ line, as it further depicted the once Force sceptic rogue’s maturation into a dispenser of knowledge of that very ‘hokey religion’.

On that note, the narrative highlight of the film was Han’s aforementioned transformation and simultaneous regression and rediscovery of his earlier smuggling ways. The Han Solo of ‘The Force Awakens’ wasn’t the uncannily orderly, institutional and respectable figure of ‘Return of the Jedi’ or the old EU (‘Legends’) works set after it. This was a complex and nuanced character who both grew and yet didn’t change, and lost and gained. His very namesake, however, saw the most crucial character development in our old scruffy-looking Nerf Herder. Han ‘Solo’ was now a man with a family…and torn asunder by its collapse. Han indeed sacrificed himself in death, and in a way both suiting and advancing to his character, by defying the odds and any logic in boldly confronting his mass-murdering, hateful son. In Han’s most desperate, touching, and cocky, move, he died.

Kylo Ren also played on the expectations of a Star Wars villain in often masterful ways. His is a vulnerable ‘menace’ who hides behind a mask he doesn’t need to advance his newfound identity. His Force powers are unorthodox and unexpected. Otherwise, Kylo is vulnerable, weak, and conflicted. He is also a ‘meta’ figure, in that he is a parallel for the Westerner who zealously and inexplicably adopts militant Jihadism. His extreme rage is authentic and unpredictable, as opposed to Anakin’s hackneyed ‘anger’.

Leia was soundly underutilised, as were C-3PO and R2-D2. Once more, Chewbacca was not given his due from Leia, who did not greet him particularly warmly upon his return with Rey. It is hoped that they filmed scenes between the two characters for ‘The Last Jedi’, as there is now no chance for that in future after Carrie’s untimely demise.

Luke Skywalker and his family’s iconic lightsaber served as an archetype and plot device. Honestly, this was pretty novel…and, once more, ‘meta’ (embodying the reclaiming of the ‘old’ Star Wars).

In conclusion, ‘The Force Awakens’ was a severely challenged film, but one which nonetheless offered critical character and narrative developments and, in the case of Han, conclusion. At long last, Star Wars boasts skillful acting in all areas and respectability. Its dependence on the core narrative of the original Star Wars film, setting the tone for the new, revitalized franchise, and unfortunate immersion into some of the modern industry’s worst elements, will require its sequel to truly advance the new characters and their story to something of greater originality and interest.

I agree with much of this.

As for Phasma’s character, wouldn’t it have been great if she were the one to fight Finn at Maz’s castle instead of TR-8R? She was on the set and everything!

I fully agree that Phasma should hsve supplanted TR-8R jn the Maz’s castle scene (or TR-8R should hsve been the primary antagonist throughout the film instead of Phasms). The complete randomness of that scene was just comical.

In their rush to make a film to generate revenue to ‘get out of the red’ for the $4 billion they spent on LFL and its properties, they created an abundance of missed opportunities and plot holes.

The future integrity of the saga depends on ‘The Last Jedi’. If they can’t inject more creativity and genuine progression of the narrative in that, then they need to just wrap up the episodic ‘saga’ after IX and solely produce anthology stand-alones from then on.

TV’s Frink said:

It sure would be nice if we could discuss Rey’s character without pulling out the tired misogynistic term “Mary Sue.”

You were not discussing anything here. Perhaps you should let others discuss things the way they want to.

More like a messy random mix of rehashed elements and new crap.