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The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 139

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 (Edited)

darthrush said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

So after watching this again, I’m wondering if the ending would have been better had Fin died. Probably not a popular opinion, but it would have been a powerful event for his character, and I’m struggling to think of what kind of unique role he could play in the rest of the trilogy. His arc seems kind of complete already.

Not a crazy proposition. This thought has crossed my mind many times since I first saw it.

I thought that too, but it’s partly for another reason: I know this is very unpopular, but I think Finn’s role in the movie feels, unfortunately, expandable. If you look at what he does in TFA, the only two things which move the plot forward are saving Poe (another hit-and-miss character, especially since he wasn’t originally supposed to come back in the third part of the movie) and helping Han find the panel to lower Starkiller’s shields. That’s it. The writers even struggled to make him relevant in the final duel, making Ben use the force to make Rey unconscious (he doesn’t do it anymore later) so Finn could fight him alone.
They could’ve switched him with another character and it still wouldn’t have really affected the plot, which I think is unfortunate: being a former stormtrooper, he could’ve been the best character in the movie, especially if they fleshed out more his internal conflicts. As he is now in TFA, he could’ve died and it would’ve still been alright, bacause he feels expendable (to me, at least).

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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John Doom said:

darthrush said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

So after watching this again, I’m wondering if the ending would have been better had Fin died. Probably not a popular opinion, but it would have been a powerful event for his character, and I’m struggling to think of what kind of unique role he could play in the rest of the trilogy. His arc seems kind of complete already.

Not a crazy proposition. This thought has crossed my mind many times since I first saw it.

I thought that too, but it’s partly for another reason: I know this is very unpopular, but I think Finn’s role in the movie feels, unfortunately, expandable. If you look at what he does in TFA, the only two things which move the plot forward are saving Poe (another hit-and-miss character, especially since he wasn’t originally supposed to come back in the third part of the movie) and helping Han find the panel to lower Starkiller’s shields. That’s it. The writers even struggled to make him relevant in the final duel, making Ben use the force to make Rey unconscious (he doesn’t do it anymore later) so Finn could fight him alone.
They could’ve switched him with another character and it still wouldn’t have really affected the plot, which I think is unfortunate: being a former stormtrooper, he could’ve been the best character in the movie, especially if they fleshed out more his internal conflicts. As he is now in TFA, he could’ve died and it would’ve still been alright, bacause he feels expendable (to me, at least).

The problem with Finn is that he’s really just a former stormtrooper-ino (in name only). Really, he acts nothing like an ex-stormtrooper. He’s just some dude (just a likeable goof who bumbles his way through the film). Which is indeed unfortunate because a former stormtrooper as a character has a lot of potential for exploration and development. But Finn’s lack of depth really is just a symptom of the bigger problem. Which is the disappointing reality that The Force Awakens is actually a pretty shallow movie. Mostly, it’s just your typical mediocre Hollywood Sci-Fi action film with only the trappings from the original Star Wars trilogy to raise it’s profile. It’s not that it was horrible (they did manage to avoid the overt stupidity of the prequels), but the film played it too safe (mostly consisting of a steady procession of OT characters/vehicles/themes that would conveniently pop up between/during the many action scenes…"Oooo, look! It’s the Millennium Falcon! pause for applause…Oh, and there’s Han Solo! pause for applause…And look there! Another Death Star…but BIGGER! crickets chirping).

Now the film wasn’t WHOLLY inadequate. There were a few decent parts too. For instance, I mostly liked what they did with Kylo Ren. But then all the time they spent developing his character is wasted when he eventually comes across Rey and her whole waltzing through the movie doing her “anything you can do, I can do better” routine. I mean, really…You’re going to have the obligatory lightsaber duel in the finale feature three characters, only one of which has any training with an actual lightsaber (and he still loses because, you know, there’s this certain protagonist that happens to be naturally great at just about everything…on demand). I guess J.J. knew he wasn’t going to be around for the following films. So, he wanted to have the payoff for her character at the end of this first film (but it just seems all too easy and unearned).

Unfortunately, the Force Awakens has taken most of the wind out the sails of my anticipation for Episode VIII.

But whatever…At least Rogue One was really good.

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Finn will probably take his life back and find his family, taking down the First Order along the way. It’s not hard to predict simple adventure tales.

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Dirge said:

John Doom said:

darthrush said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

So after watching this again, I’m wondering if the ending would have been better had Fin died. Probably not a popular opinion, but it would have been a powerful event for his character, and I’m struggling to think of what kind of unique role he could play in the rest of the trilogy. His arc seems kind of complete already.

Not a crazy proposition. This thought has crossed my mind many times since I first saw it.

I thought that too, but it’s partly for another reason: I know this is very unpopular, but I think Finn’s role in the movie feels, unfortunately, expandable. If you look at what he does in TFA, the only two things which move the plot forward are saving Poe (another hit-and-miss character, especially since he wasn’t originally supposed to come back in the third part of the movie) and helping Han find the panel to lower Starkiller’s shields. That’s it. The writers even struggled to make him relevant in the final duel, making Ben use the force to make Rey unconscious (he doesn’t do it anymore later) so Finn could fight him alone.
They could’ve switched him with another character and it still wouldn’t have really affected the plot, which I think is unfortunate: being a former stormtrooper, he could’ve been the best character in the movie, especially if they fleshed out more his internal conflicts. As he is now in TFA, he could’ve died and it would’ve still been alright, bacause he feels expendable (to me, at least).

The problem with Finn is that he’s really just a former stormtrooper-ino (in name only). Really, he acts nothing like an ex-stormtrooper. He’s just some dude (just a likeable goof who bumbles his way through the film). Which is indeed unfortunate because a former stormtrooper as a character has a lot of potential for exploration and development. But Finn’s lack of depth really is just a symptom of the bigger problem. Which is the disappointing reality that The Force Awakens is actually a pretty shallow movie. Mostly, it’s just your typical mediocre Hollywood Sci-Fi action film with only the trappings from the original Star Wars trilogy to raise it’s profile. It’s not that it was horrible (they did manage to avoid the overt stupidity of the prequels), but the film played it too safe (mostly consisting of a steady procession of OT characters/vehicles/themes that would conveniently pop up between/during the many action scenes…"Oooo, look! It’s the Millennium Falcon! pause for applause…Oh, and there’s Han Solo! pause for applause…And look there! Another Death Star…but BIGGER! crickets chirping).

Now the film wasn’t WHOLLY inadequate. There were a few decent parts too. For instance, I mostly liked what they did with Kylo Ren. But then all the time they spent developing his character is wasted when he eventually comes across Rey and her whole waltzing through the movie doing her “anything you can do, I can do better” routine. I mean, really…You’re going to have the obligatory lightsaber duel in the finale feature three characters, only one of which has any training with an actual lightsaber (and he still loses because, you know, there’s this certain protagonist that happens to be naturally great at just about everything…on demand). I guess J.J. knew he wasn’t going to be around for the following films. So, he wanted to have the payoff for her character at the end of this first film (but it just seems all too easy and unearned).

I agree: Finn was both expandable and expendable.

Jokes aside though, I agree with everything above without exception, including the tone. Great post.

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I think Finn’s skill in combat plus the intel he has on the First Order makes him pretty valuable. At least from a Military standpoint; I think you guys are just coming at this from a plot perspective.

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 (Edited)

Dirge said:

John Doom said:

darthrush said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

So after watching this again, I’m wondering if the ending would have been better had Fin died. Probably not a popular opinion, but it would have been a powerful event for his character, and I’m struggling to think of what kind of unique role he could play in the rest of the trilogy. His arc seems kind of complete already.

Not a crazy proposition. This thought has crossed my mind many times since I first saw it.

I thought that too, but it’s partly for another reason: I know this is very unpopular, but I think Finn’s role in the movie feels, unfortunately, expandable. If you look at what he does in TFA, the only two things which move the plot forward are saving Poe (another hit-and-miss character, especially since he wasn’t originally supposed to come back in the third part of the movie) and helping Han find the panel to lower Starkiller’s shields. That’s it. The writers even struggled to make him relevant in the final duel, making Ben use the force to make Rey unconscious (he doesn’t do it anymore later) so Finn could fight him alone.
They could’ve switched him with another character and it still wouldn’t have really affected the plot, which I think is unfortunate: being a former stormtrooper, he could’ve been the best character in the movie, especially if they fleshed out more his internal conflicts. As he is now in TFA, he could’ve died and it would’ve still been alright, bacause he feels expendable (to me, at least).

The problem with Finn is that he’s really just a former stormtrooper-ino (in name only). Really, he acts nothing like an ex-stormtrooper. He’s just some dude (just a likeable goof who bumbles his way through the film). Which is indeed unfortunate because a former stormtrooper as a character has a lot of potential for exploration and development. But Finn’s lack of depth really is just a symptom of the bigger problem. Which is the disappointing reality that The Force Awakens is actually a pretty shallow movie. Mostly, it’s just your typical mediocre Hollywood Sci-Fi action film with only the trappings from the original Star Wars trilogy to raise it’s profile. It’s not that it was horrible (they did manage to avoid the overt stupidity of the prequels), but the film played it too safe (mostly consisting of a steady procession of OT characters/vehicles/themes that would conveniently pop up between/during the many action scenes…"Oooo, look! It’s the Millennium Falcon! pause for applause…Oh, and there’s Han Solo! pause for applause…And look there! Another Death Star…but BIGGER! crickets chirping).

Now the film wasn’t WHOLLY inadequate. There were a few decent parts too. For instance, I mostly liked what they did with Kylo Ren. But then all the time they spent developing his character is wasted when he eventually comes across Rey and her whole waltzing through the movie doing her “anything you can do, I can do better” routine. I mean, really…You’re going to have the obligatory lightsaber duel in the finale feature three characters, only one of which has any training with an actual lightsaber (and he still loses because, you know, there’s this certain protagonist that happens to be naturally great at just about everything…on demand). I guess J.J. knew he wasn’t going to be around for the following films. So, he wanted to have the payoff for her character at the end of this first film (but it just seems all too easy and unearned).

Unfortunately, the Force Awakens has taken most of the wind out the sails of my anticipation for Episode VIII.

So true. I know other people are ok with all of this, but I definitely think TFA could’ve used more character development. In this regard, it’s still better than, say, TPM and AOTC, but still… it could’ve been much better, it could’ve used more time and depth. It was a wasted opportunity, to me.
Regarding Rey’s payoff, I’m not sure it’s Abrams’ fault: I usually don’t like his kind of movies, but I think this was probably a mix of marketing decisions and the need to follow this trilogy’s general outline (I still wonder who wrote it).

Darth Id said:

I agree: Finn was both expandable and expendable.

😄 Sorry about that, I just noticed it. Now I wish I could go back in time and fix what I wrote!

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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Time
 (Edited)

Dirge said:

John Doom said:

darthrush said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

So after watching this again, I’m wondering if the ending would have been better had Fin died. Probably not a popular opinion, but it would have been a powerful event for his character, and I’m struggling to think of what kind of unique role he could play in the rest of the trilogy. His arc seems kind of complete already.

Not a crazy proposition. This thought has crossed my mind many times since I first saw it.

I thought that too, but it’s partly for another reason: I know this is very unpopular, but I think Finn’s role in the movie feels, unfortunately, expandable. If you look at what he does in TFA, the only two things which move the plot forward are saving Poe (another hit-and-miss character, especially since he wasn’t originally supposed to come back in the third part of the movie) and helping Han find the panel to lower Starkiller’s shields. That’s it. The writers even struggled to make him relevant in the final duel, making Ben use the force to make Rey unconscious (he doesn’t do it anymore later) so Finn could fight him alone.
They could’ve switched him with another character and it still wouldn’t have really affected the plot, which I think is unfortunate: being a former stormtrooper, he could’ve been the best character in the movie, especially if they fleshed out more his internal conflicts. As he is now in TFA, he could’ve died and it would’ve still been alright, bacause he feels expendable (to me, at least).

The problem with Finn is that he’s really just a former stormtrooper-ino (in name only). Really, he acts nothing like an ex-stormtrooper. He’s just some dude (just a likeable goof who bumbles his way through the film). Which is indeed unfortunate because a former stormtrooper as a character has a lot of potential for exploration and development. But Finn’s lack of depth really is just a symptom of the bigger problem. Which is the disappointing reality that The Force Awakens is actually a pretty shallow movie. Mostly, it’s just your typical mediocre Hollywood Sci-Fi action film with only the trappings from the original Star Wars trilogy to raise it’s profile. It’s not that it was horrible (they did manage to avoid the overt stupidity of the prequels), but the film played it too safe (mostly consisting of a steady procession of OT characters/vehicles/themes that would conveniently pop up between/during the many action scenes…"Oooo, look! It’s the Millennium Falcon! pause for applause…Oh, and there’s Han Solo! pause for applause…And look there! Another Death Star…but BIGGER! crickets chirping).

Now the film wasn’t WHOLLY inadequate. There were a few decent parts too. For instance, I mostly liked what they did with Kylo Ren. But then all the time they spent developing his character is wasted when he eventually comes across Rey and her whole waltzing through the movie doing her “anything you can do, I can do better” routine. I mean, really…You’re going to have the obligatory lightsaber duel in the finale feature three characters, only one of which has any training with an actual lightsaber (and he still loses because, you know, there’s this certain protagonist that happens to be naturally great at just about everything…on demand). I guess J.J. knew he wasn’t going to be around for the following films. So, he wanted to have the payoff for her character at the end of this first film (but it just seems all too easy and unearned).

Unfortunately, the Force Awakens has taken most of the wind out the sails of my anticipation for Episode VIII.

But whatever…At least Rogue One was really good.

+1. Except for Rogue One. I didn’t care for anyone but the droid, and the blind guy. A sad thing to admit, but it’s true. It was the only time I got emotional through the entirety of the film. I don’t even have the impression that Jyn Erso was the main character.

WHAT HAVE I DONE?
The Ancient Lore
Kenobi: A Star Wars Story
Harry Potter Revisited
Game of Thrones Film Edits
Titanic Restructured
… and more.

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Some people didn’t get the memo that Finn was a rookie who was in his first combat situation. 😉

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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“Really, he acts nothing like an ex-stormtrooper.”

But ok.

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TV’s Frink said:

“Really, he acts nothing like an ex-stormtrooper.”

But ok.

Don’t worry, I’m going to quote only what we said about Finn and his character development, so you can read and understand our discussion:

John Doom said:

Dirge said:

John Doom said:

[…] I know this is very unpopular, but I think Finn’s role in the movie feels, unfortunately, expandable. If you look at what he does in TFA, the only two things which move the plot forward are saving Poe (another hit-and-miss character, especially since he wasn’t originally supposed to come back in the third part of the movie) and helping Han find the panel to lower Starkiller’s shields. That’s it. The writers even struggled to make him relevant in the final duel, making Ben use the force to make Rey unconscious (he doesn’t do it anymore later) so Finn could fight him alone.
They could’ve switched him with another character and it still wouldn’t have really affected the plot, which I think is unfortunate: being a former stormtrooper, he could’ve been the best character in the movie, especially if they fleshed out more his internal conflicts. As he is now in TFA, he could’ve died and it would’ve still been alright, bacause he feels expendable (to me, at least).

The problem with Finn is that he’s really just a former stormtrooper-ino (in name only). Really, he acts nothing like an ex-stormtrooper. He’s just some dude (just a likeable goof who bumbles his way through the film). Which is indeed unfortunate because a former stormtrooper as a character has a lot of potential for exploration and development. But Finn’s lack of depth really is just a symptom of the bigger problem. […]

So true. I know other people are ok with all of this, but I definitely think TFA could’ve used more character development. […]

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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John Doom said:

Darth Id said:

I agree: Finn was both expandable and expendable.

😄 Sorry about that, I just noticed it. Now I wish I could go back in time and fix what I wrote!

Why man? Go with it. When the typo fits, let the ex-stormtrooper wear it!

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 (Edited)

Darth Id said:

John Doom said:

Darth Id said:

I agree: Finn was both expandable and expendable.

😄 Sorry about that, I just noticed it. Now I wish I could go back in time and fix what I wrote!

Why man? Go with it. When the typo fits, let the ex-stormtrooper wear it!

Good idea!

I think this definitely adds depth to his character 😄

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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^ Wow there’s some electronic overachievers on this chat bored…

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7 of the last 10 reviews on IMDB:

  1. “The Worst of the Very Worst, Should be Forbidden”
  2. “This Movie Is Stupid”
  3. “Leaves A Lot To Be Desired”
  4. “The Fart Awakens And Stinks up The Galaxy Far Far Away”
  5. “So bad I had to create a review account”
  6. “Imagine if someone gave you money for presenting someone else’s work/script/idea”
  7. “Not terrible, not great either”

Which one is your favorite?

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  1. “Why should I give a crap what loonies on the IMDB think? The only thing worse is youtube comments.”

I guess the message boards being closed down didn’t impede things over there very much.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Alderaan said:

7 of the last 10 reviews on IMDB:

  1. “The Worst of the Very Worst, Should be Forbidden”
  2. “This Movie Is Stupid”
  3. “Leaves A Lot To Be Desired”
  4. “The Fart Awakens And Stinks up The Galaxy Far Far Away”
  5. “So bad I had to create a review account”
  6. “Imagine if someone gave you money for presenting someone else’s work/script/idea”
  7. “Not terrible, not great either”

Which one is your favorite?

Ahhh, lovely to see the brutal honesty from fans! My favorite would have to be nr. 6. It’s just too harshly true to be avoided.

WHAT HAVE I DONE?
The Ancient Lore
Kenobi: A Star Wars Story
Harry Potter Revisited
Game of Thrones Film Edits
Titanic Restructured
… and more.

Author
Time

Alderaan said:

7 of the last 10 reviews on IMDB:

  1. “The Worst of the Very Worst, Should be Forbidden”
  2. “This Movie Is Stupid”
  3. “Leaves A Lot To Be Desired”
  4. “The Fart Awakens And Stinks up The Galaxy Far Far Away”
  5. “So bad I had to create a review account”
  6. “Imagine if someone gave you money for presenting someone else’s work/script/idea”
  7. “Not terrible, not great either”

Which one is your favorite?

For what it’s worth, and in the interest of balance… IMDB.com: Star Wars - The Force Awakens, rating of 8.1/10 - from 651,474 users.

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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 (Edited)

Darth Id said:

^ Wow there’s some electronic overachievers on this chat bored…

:\ I was just trying to be funny. I had this idea after reading your reply and I just couldn’t resist the urge to share it as a gif 😄

NeverarGreat said:

It’s cool right now to hate on Finn, but without him, the movie would be rather…rudderless. * ducks *

I don’t hate on Finn :\

Alderaan said:

7 of the last 10 reviews on IMDB:

  1. “The Worst of the Very Worst, Should be Forbidden”
  2. “This Movie Is Stupid”
  3. “Leaves A Lot To Be Desired”
  4. “The Fart Awakens And Stinks up The Galaxy Far Far Away”
  5. “So bad I had to create a review account”
  6. “Imagine if someone gave you money for presenting someone else’s work/script/idea”
  7. “Not terrible, not great either”

Which one is your favorite?

Number 3? (Do I win something? 😄 )
P.S.: number 4’s title is hilarious 😄

EDIT: speaking of Finn’s character depth, by making him into a gif, unfortunately I altered his depth to only 256 colors… :\

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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oojason said:

Alderaan said:

7 of the last 10 reviews on IMDB:

  1. “The Worst of the Very Worst, Should be Forbidden”
  2. “This Movie Is Stupid”
  3. “Leaves A Lot To Be Desired”
  4. “The Fart Awakens And Stinks up The Galaxy Far Far Away”
  5. “So bad I had to create a review account”
  6. “Imagine if someone gave you money for presenting someone else’s work/script/idea”
  7. “Not terrible, not great either”

Which one is your favorite?

For what it’s worth, and in the interest of balance… IMDB.com: Star Wars - The Force Awakens, rating of 8.1/10 - from 651,474 users.

Still? You would think a genuinely terrible film would have a worse score since “the awakening” happened.

And in general I’m not even sure why this is even being discussed as other people’s opinions shouldn’t hold any weight even if there is a shift. If so a lot of us are about to feel differently about Return of The Jedi.

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SilverWook said:

  1. “Why should I give a crap what loonies on the IMDB think? The only thing worse is youtube comments.”

I guess the message boards being closed down didn’t impede things over there very much.

Well they are correct. Whether that warrants caring or not, is up to each person of course.

真実

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John Doom said:

P.S.: number 4’s title is hilarious 😄

Ah yes, “The Fart Awakens And Stinks up The Galaxy Far Far Away” is quite the comedic gem.

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TV’s Frink said:

John Doom said:

P.S.: number 4’s title is hilarious 😄

Ah yes, “The Fart Awakens And Stinks up The Galaxy Far Far Away” is quite the comedic gem.

…Says the guy who made “The Ridiculous Menace”, “Attack Of The Ridiculousness” and “Revenge of the Ridiculousness” 😃

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201