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your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance. — Page 7

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His life before trying to flee with was like an Oliver Twist/Artful Dodger scenario, (street smart, but not cynical yet) only without a kindly father figure like Fagin running things. He trusted his ladyfriend at that point at least.
In any case, it’s Star Wars, not the mean streets of planet Earth.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

His life before trying to flee with was like an Oliver Twist/Artful Dodger scenario, (street smart, but not cynical yet) only without a kindly father figure like Fagin running things. He trusted his ladyfriend at that point at least.
In any case, it’s Star Wars, not the mean streets of planet Earth.

Or it’s Star Wars, not the streets of mid-19th century London…wait a minute.

I still think SOLO was a fun movie, and it’s in tone with the eventual tone of Star Wars, post-ROTJ.
Just me personally, I wish SOLO’s origin story had a bit more edge to it.

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Shopping Maul said:

You know how folks say we should never have put man on the moon, because that’s the bar that everything gets judged against? Well it’s the the same with Star Wars because we had The Empire Strikes Back. If not for Empire we might find Ewoks and Midichlorians and ‘Greedo shot first’ and the conga-line of cantinas/Death Stars much easier to bear.

Probably. SW '77 on its own is essentially a live-action version of an animated Disney classic — impressive on a technical level, with likable characters, but there’s not much substance to it. All the non-TESB spinoffs are equivalent to the direct-to-video sequels — mediocre-to-poor, but easily ignorable.

Arrivederci.

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LordZerome1080 said:

I agree with you but I do like the Vader comics

I forgot about those and I agree, they’re of good quality, I was more referring to films and TV in my post.

There have been a couple good comic series’, but I really don’t like the novels put out. They remind me of the most average of the pre-2014 EU. Even then, if I’ve got to choose between DisCanon’s comics and Dark Horse, I’m gonna go with Dark Horse.

Voss Caltrez said:

I wish SOLO’s origin story had a bit more edge to it.

I didn’t mind the lack of edge too much though it would have been nice, I just wish it had more weight to it. The film is called “SOLO” but take out Han Solo himself and the story barely changes, the whole film feels very inconsequential to the character.

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I must admit Rey being super-duper strong in the Force doesn’t bother me as much as her being skilled at pretty much everything, being a mechanical engineering genius with intricate knowledge of all types of spaceships, an expert pilot, an accomplished marksman by simply grabbing a blaster and so on and so forth.

But the thing that really bothers me about the ST is the First Order being so goddamn powerful and wealthy despite being a fraction of the Empire, and it only takes about a week to regain control of the Galaxy.

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fmalover said:

I must admit Rey being super-duper strong in the Force doesn’t bother me as much as her being skilled at pretty much everything, being a mechanical engineering genius with intricate knowledge of all types of spaceships, an expert pilot, an accomplished marksman by simply grabbing a blaster and so on and so forth.

But the thing that really bothers me about the ST is the First Order being so goddamn powerful and wealthy despite being a fraction of the Empire, and it only takes about a week to regain control of the Galaxy.

As a fan of the ST, I will admit that having the 1st Order as a band of underdog terrorists would have made a much stronger narrative than the superpower we have now. JJ just couldn’t help but reset the clock.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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while I do believe a movie should stand on it’s own , there is a 30 year gap between the OT and the ST .A lot can happen in that time . The Novel Bloodline by Claudia Gray goes a long way to explain how the First Order was funded . It also deals with the reaction of the New Republic after Leia is finally outed as the daughter of Darth Vader …http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bloodline_(novel)

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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Mavimao said:

I honestly think the new makers want to re-shape the whole Force-training aspect of the original/prequel trilogy in order to move the narrative of new stories along faster.

Instead of having every new Force sensitive person having to dedicate a chunk of his or her life training (and thus taking up narrative time as well), we can do an X-Men-esque “awakening” in which characters are given raw powers but need guidance on what to do with those powers (so with great power comes great responsibility etc).

I understand fans’ frustrations with Rey’s sudden abilities, but did we really need another training montage?

No, we dont need another training montage but there are tons of ways around it. Have the training happen in between films, just like the OT & PT did, its been done before. You could even do it like they did in the Clone Wars TV show. Ahsoka was already trained to use her powers (assumed by Yoda - see Ep2) but when passed onto Anakin to continue her training, all she needed was “guidance on what to do with those powers” - exactly like you said. Story doesn’t have to slow down at all for the sake of training.

With all these insane new powers and instant knowledge on how to use them (including broom boy), jedi are starting to feel more like gods and Luke, under Disney cannon, is now the weakest jedi that ever lived with how much he struggled. Even Anakin “the chosen one” had it rough.

RogueLeader said:

Regardless, I think going through that process made me really think about what those movies were trying to say, and in the end it made me appreciate the prequels we already have even more. And while the movies clearly have problems (enter fan edits), I love the overall story they tell.

Maybe you won’t ever come around on the new films, and if you ever want to talk about them with me I would be happy to share my opinion, but I think for all of the people it is just going to take time for them to really get into them. I’m not saying they’re perfect, I’m over on the fan edit threads all the time trying to think of ways to improve them, but I think the overall story fits appropriately with the saga as a whole.

I personally love the prequels but yes, they do have a bunch of issues. BUT like you say, you love the story, even though the execution was off. However, I dont see much of a story in the sequel trilogy except from “We are bad and you are good. Lets fight!”. 7 isnt connected well to 6 (no, I shouldnt have to read 3 books to know whats going on) and 7 & 8 dont connect well ether. There is no narrative that links each together. When watching 2 & 5 for the first time, you somewhat knew what to expect story wise. Ep8 cuts away from 7 and yet sets nothing at all up by the end of it that literally ANYTHING could happen in 9 due to a lack of overarching story. Of course, some may like this and thats fine.

If I ever do start warming up the the sequels, it would have to be through a fan edit that massively overhauled the story and, unfortunately, that seems only possible through title crawls and/or reshuffling scenes & doing background replacement in order to create a totally different narrative. Been thinking a lot about this actually.

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All broom boy did was levitate a broom. It’s been implied Luke was subconsciously tapping into the Force which helped his piloting skills on Tatooine before he was even aware of it. Ditto for young Anakin. That’s not instant knowledge of the Force.

When the Jedi went looking for Force sensitive kids, I imagine levitating small light objects is one of the tells. Another child might display precognitive abilities. Still another might be a great pod racer. They would be pretty hard to find otherwise.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

All broom boy did was levitate a broom. It’s been implied Luke was subconsciously tapping into the Force which helped his piloting skills on Tatooine before he was even aware of it. Ditto for young Anakin. That’s not instant knowledge of the Force.

When the Jedi went looking for Force sensitive kids, I imagine levitating small light objects is one of the tells. Another child might display precognitive abilities. Still another might be a great pod racer. They would be pretty hard to find otherwise.

Yeah I get all that. The problem I find with it is that Luke clearly struggled to get his lightsaber, far older than broom boy who pulls the broom towards him without a care. Also Reys first ever lift with heavy objects (the boulders) is done with ease. That was deffinetly not something that Luke taught her. Rey did everything that Luke did throught the whole OT in just TFA. Then we are to belive that she is going to Luke for training?

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screams in the void said:

while I do believe a movie should stand on it’s own , there is a 30 year gap between the OT and the ST .A lot can happen in that time . The Novel Bloodline by Claudia Gray goes a long way to explain how the First Order was funded . It also deals with the reaction of the New Republic after Leia is finally outed as the daughter of Darth Vader …http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bloodline_(novel)

Yeah, I read all about it. I still call bullshit on the FO’s rise to power.

I posted on a different thread that the First Order should have been portrayed as employing guerilla warfare, espionage which would encompass infiltration, sleeper agents and what have you, conquering seemingly unimportant worlds, using Imperial technology derived from unused prototypes (the dreadnought at the beginning of TLJ could have been used as a sort of ghost ship that strikes from the shadows). You get the point.

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DougieP said:

SilverWook said:

All broom boy did was levitate a broom. It’s been implied Luke was subconsciously tapping into the Force which helped his piloting skills on Tatooine before he was even aware of it. Ditto for young Anakin. That’s not instant knowledge of the Force.

When the Jedi went looking for Force sensitive kids, I imagine levitating small light objects is one of the tells. Another child might display precognitive abilities. Still another might be a great pod racer. They would be pretty hard to find otherwise.

Yeah I get all that. The problem I find with it is that Luke clearly struggled to get his lightsaber, far older than broom boy who pulls the broom towards him without a care. Also Reys first ever lift with heavy objects (the boulders) is done with ease. That was deffinetly not something that Luke taught her. Rey did everything that Luke did throught the whole OT in just TFA. Then we are to belive that she is going to Luke for training?

Luke was wounded, and probably slowly freezing to death. And you try Force pulling your saber with the blood rushing to your head! 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I also forgot to mention.

I didn’t like Snoke as leader of the First Order. Why are the descendants of the Empire being led by some random Force wielder with no previous ties to the Empire? The First Order should have been led by a council of former Imperials, be they high ranking generals and politicians. If they wanted to have Snoke at all it should have been as an advisor of sorts, representing the mystical aspects of the First Order in addition to being Kylo Ren’s Dark Side mentor.

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SilverWook said:

Luke was wounded, and probably slowly freezing to death. And you try Force pulling your saber with the blood rushing to your head! 😉

Lol yeah you are right again, and I will fully admit that. But that doesn’t change my mind that I feel like Disneys version of force users are far too powerful and learn too quickly. Like I said, Rey learns all of Lukes/Anakins skills in 1 film, unlike their 3. Rey already beat Kylo in the first film, there is no tension at all for the final film. Ether she will beat him yet again or Kylo will just say “yeah, being bad is bad” and become good. They could have made Reys powers work. For example, Snoke could have been Darth Pleagusus, he learned how to bring others back to life, now his own. He made Anakin 2.0 - Rey. So insanely powerful that she can do everything really quickly and needs no training. But this doesnt correct the issue that there is no tension at all. Thats the whole point in NOT making your jedi godlike. It ruins the tension. What I also find funny is that the other characters dont even act like this is a first. The most insanely powerful force user ever but Yoda and Luke arnt fussed.

On top of this, and I know that this is irrelevant to our convo, but they constantly crack jokes at the bad guys and, as a viewer, I cant help but feel the same. They are to be laughed at. For example, before 7 was out I thought Kylo looked daft but when I seen him in movie form, at the beginning of the film, with the voice, attitude etc I realised that I was wrong. Buuuut…then Poe mocks him and, as a viewer, my perception of the bad guy comes from how the heros feel about him. Kylo is a good bad guy for 2 mins and then he is a joke for the entire sequel trilogy. Beaten, joked and mocked about multiple times.

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fmalover said:

screams in the void said:

while I do believe a movie should stand on it’s own , there is a 30 year gap between the OT and the ST .A lot can happen in that time . The Novel Bloodline by Claudia Gray goes a long way to explain how the First Order was funded . It also deals with the reaction of the New Republic after Leia is finally outed as the daughter of Darth Vader …http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bloodline_(novel)

Yeah, I read all about it. I still call bullshit on the FO’s rise to power.

I posted on a different thread that the First Order should have been portrayed as employing guerilla warfare, espionage which would encompass infiltration, sleeper agents and what have you, conquering seemingly unimportant worlds, using Imperial technology derived from unused prototypes (the dreadnought at the beginning of TLJ could have been used as a sort of ghost ship that strikes from the shadows). You get the point.

interesting opinions on how you feel the First Order should have been portrayed .Having read Bloodline , what about it makes you call B.S. though ?

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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This thread is consistently the worst so I don’t really want to muck it up more but I have to say RogueLeader is maybe the only reasonable person to have ever posted on this site.

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DominicCobb said:

This thread is consistently the worst so I don’t really want to muck it up more but I have to say RogueLeader is maybe the only reasonable person to have ever posted on this site.

Either RogueLeader is DominicCobb sock confirmed or you’re practicing self-deprecation. Either way, I approve.

Arrivederci.

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Ryan-SWI said:

Mavimao said:

I understand fans’ frustrations with Rey’s sudden abilities, but did we really need another training montage?

No, but we needed an explanation because these films are claiming to be the 7th and 8th part of a 40 year old episodic saga and they don’t seem to care about anything set up prior.

It’s really no wonder so many people see these films as corporate fan fiction.

If TFA and TLJ were just stand alone spin off movies most people would probably dismiss them like they did Solo, but the problem is they’re saying this is the “sequel trilogy” despite advancing nothing of narrative substance in the broader context and actively going out of its way to undermine everything that came before.

I maintain that in twenty years the only thing this trilogy will be recognised for is the biggest wasted opportunity in cinematic history. They had endless potential and could have done literally anything, but instead went for a quick nostalgic cashgrab that’ll age like an opened can of beer. Unbelievable.

I’m personally in a weird spot because I loved Rogue One and really liked Solo, but have hated every other piece of material we’ve been given. At this point as far as I’m concerned the saga is I - VI and the only thing I’m interested in is the spin off movies and upcoming shows. More power to you if you’re looking forward to IX, but it just ain’t for me.

I find it strangely dissonant that you dismiss TFA and TLJ as “nostalgic cashgrabs” and “corporate fan fiction”, yet you say you “loved” Rogue One.

Contrary to your opinion, I thought that TFA and TLJ while they do play on nostalgia, had a lot more heart than Rogue One, which I felt was a soulless assembly of recognizable imagery built around hollow characters.

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DominicCobb said:

This thread is consistently the worst so I don’t really want to muck it up more but I have to say RogueLeader is maybe the only reasonable person to have ever posted on this site.

❤️

But honestly I understand a lot of the opinions on here, and I even shared some of them at one point or another, like Rey’s abilities or the First Order’s strength, but overtime I just came to my own conclusions that satisfied those questions for me.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Either RogueLeader is DominicCobb sock confirmed or you’re practicing self-deprecation. Either way, I approve.

With our powers combined we could become the ultimate SJW DISNEY SHILL

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I really hate the ‘Force as X-Men powers’ thing. I personally much prefer the version heavily implied by eps 4 and 5 - that mastery of the Force requires serious discipline and study. It sucks that it was made heavily genetic in RoTJ (in order to serve the idea of Leia being a threat to the Sith by birthright alone) which of course was compounded by the Midichlorian-rich prequels. Still, even prequel Jedi had to train for it.

Seriously, if potential Jedi kids could just levitate stuff willy-nilly at the Rey/Broom Boy level, then it would logically follow that the Jedi Council would had to have taken Anakin on board out of immediate necessity - “yep, you’d better train him Qui Gon 'cos those powers are gonna grow anyway!”.

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The old Jedi Order took students from infancy in order to control their emotional attachments, which they saw as gateways to the dark side. This is why they were so reluctant to take on Anakin as a Jedi. I think it gave the wrong impression that learning how to use the Force took years, when that really isn’t the entirely the case. It has more to do with belief, and one’s ability to “let go of your conscious self”.

It also surprises me a little that people haven’t considered as much that the Force itself has changed between the trilogies. The Force isn’t a static ability, it’s dynamic and connected to life itself, making it in a way alive.

Episode 7 is literally called The Force Awakens. What does that mean? Is it not possible that this awakening is not partially responsible for the feats we’ve seen across the board in the new films, like Kylo Ren freezing blaster bolts, Rey’s fast-growing abilities, their subsequent Force-Skype sessions, Leia pulling herself back to the ship, Luke’s Force projection, even broom boy’s subtle Force pull?

You could even argue this began with Luke in the OT, the first real student of the Force since the Jedi Purge. He really only had a few weeks at most of official training with Yoda, but in Return of the Jedi, only a year later with no additional training under Yoda, he is on the verge of officially becoming a Jedi.

It raises some questions about the nature of the Force. Does the overall use of the Force have an affect on its potential in existing Force-users? Does the Force have a will of its own to choose who it acts through? Did training Jedi from infancy have a side-effect of limiting their relationship with the Force in ways that didn’t exist for those who discovered it at adulthood? Is the Force just like an ocean, where the tide can rise and fall?

I personally think these questions about the Force should really never be answered fully, and should remain mysterious, simple-yet-complicated, and sometimes contradictory, much like the Tao that inspired it, and also as a concept of a universal religion-symbol that George meant it to be, since religions are also endlessly debated upon.

I think the important theme we are meant to take from the Force is the ideas of faith and belief, the crux of all religions, and the internal power we can get from faith in our own lives, religious or not. Luke struggles with the Force in the OT because of his doubt in the Force and his own personal self-doubt.

Rey on the other hand grew up with the legend of Luke Skywalker and the Jedi, and not long after learning about the reality of the them, she slowly learns that she’s also connected to this Force and begins her own journey of self-discovery and self-actualization.

With broom boy, moments before his Force use, he is being told the story of Luke Skywalker’s grand stand against the evil First Order, with wonder in his eyes. He believes in the Jedi, in the Force, and that subtle moment, something he might not have even realized he did, is a representation of what the power of faith and hope can have in the world and in ourselves.

Anyway, just my two cents. Not trying to argue, just sharing my perspective.

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pleasehello said:

I find it strangely dissonant that you dismiss TFA and TLJ as “nostalgic cashgrabs” and “corporate fan fiction”, yet you say you “loved” Rogue One.

Contrary to your opinion, I thought that TFA and TLJ while they do play on nostalgia, had a lot more heart than Rogue One, which I felt was a soulless assembly of recognizable imagery built around hollow characters.

TFA and TLJ add nothing of value to the saga of I - VI, Rogue One does.

The characters in Rogue One may be very underdeveloped, but at least they’re actual characters with flaws and personalities, and not Cliche Two Dimensional Character #1, #2 and #3.

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RogueLeader said:

The old Jedi Order took students from infancy in order to control their emotional attachments, which they saw as gateways to the dark side. This is why they were so reluctant to take on Anakin as a Jedi. I think it gave the wrong impression that learning how to use the Force took years, when that really isn’t the entirely the case. It has more to do with belief, and one’s ability to “let go of your conscious self”.

It also surprises me a little that people haven’t considered as much that the Force itself has changed between the trilogies. The Force isn’t a static ability, it’s dynamic and connected to life itself, making it in a way alive.

Episode 7 is literally called The Force Awakens. What does that mean? Is it not possible that this awakening is not partially responsible for the feats we’ve seen across the board in the new films, like Kylo Ren freezing blaster bolts, Rey’s fast-growing abilities, their subsequent Force-Skype sessions, Leia pulling herself back to the ship, Luke’s Force projection, even broom boy’s subtle Force pull?

You could even argue this began with Luke in the OT, the first real student of the Force since the Jedi Purge. He really only had a few weeks at most of official training with Yoda, but in Return of the Jedi, only a year later with no additional training under Yoda, he is on the verge of officially becoming a Jedi.

It raises some questions about the nature of the Force. Does the overall use of the Force have an affect on its potential in existing Force-users? Does the Force have a will of its own to choose who it acts through? Did training Jedi from infancy have a side-effect of limiting their relationship with the Force in ways that didn’t exist for those who discovered it at adulthood? Is the Force just like an ocean, where the tide can rise and fall?

I personally think these questions about the Force should really never be answered fully, and should remain mysterious, simple-yet-complicated, and sometimes contradictory, much like the Tao that inspired it, and also as a concept of a universal religion-symbol that George meant it to be, since religions are also endlessly debated upon.

I think the important theme we are meant to take from the Force is the ideas of faith and belief, the crux of all religions, and the internal power we can get from faith in our own lives, religious or not. Luke struggles with the Force in the OT because of his doubt in the Force and his own personal self-doubt.

Rey on the other hand grew up with the legend of Luke Skywalker and the Jedi, and not long after learning about the reality of the them, she slowly learns that she’s also connected to this Force and begins her own journey of self-discovery and self-actualization.

With broom boy, moments before his Force use, he is being told the story of Luke Skywalker’s grand stand against the evil First Order, with wonder in his eyes. He believes in the Jedi, in the Force, and that subtle moment, something he might not have even realized he did, is a representation of what the power of faith and hope can have in the world and in ourselves.

Anyway, just my two cents. Not trying to argue, just sharing my perspective.

^ very well said ! I came to the same conclusion a few pages back about the title literally being The Force Awakens on the first of the ST movies , but you expanded upon it here better than I did . Also brings to mind the tagline in the trailer for TFA , " There has been an awakening , have you felt it "?

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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screams in the void said:

RogueLeader said:

The old Jedi Order took students from infancy in order to control their emotional attachments, which they saw as gateways to the dark side. This is why they were so reluctant to take on Anakin as a Jedi. I think it gave the wrong impression that learning how to use the Force took years, when that really isn’t the entirely the case. It has more to do with belief, and one’s ability to “let go of your conscious self”.

It also surprises me a little that people haven’t considered as much that the Force itself has changed between the trilogies. The Force isn’t a static ability, it’s dynamic and connected to life itself, making it in a way alive.

Episode 7 is literally called The Force Awakens. What does that mean? Is it not possible that this awakening is not partially responsible for the feats we’ve seen across the board in the new films, like Kylo Ren freezing blaster bolts, Rey’s fast-growing abilities, their subsequent Force-Skype sessions, Leia pulling herself back to the ship, Luke’s Force projection, even broom boy’s subtle Force pull?

You could even argue this began with Luke in the OT, the first real student of the Force since the Jedi Purge. He really only had a few weeks at most of official training with Yoda, but in Return of the Jedi, only a year later with no additional training under Yoda, he is on the verge of officially becoming a Jedi.

It raises some questions about the nature of the Force. Does the overall use of the Force have an affect on its potential in existing Force-users? Does the Force have a will of its own to choose who it acts through? Did training Jedi from infancy have a side-effect of limiting their relationship with the Force in ways that didn’t exist for those who discovered it at adulthood? Is the Force just like an ocean, where the tide can rise and fall?

I personally think these questions about the Force should really never be answered fully, and should remain mysterious, simple-yet-complicated, and sometimes contradictory, much like the Tao that inspired it, and also as a concept of a universal religion-symbol that George meant it to be, since religions are also endlessly debated upon.

I think the important theme we are meant to take from the Force is the ideas of faith and belief, the crux of all religions, and the internal power we can get from faith in our own lives, religious or not. Luke struggles with the Force in the OT because of his doubt in the Force and his own personal self-doubt.

Rey on the other hand grew up with the legend of Luke Skywalker and the Jedi, and not long after learning about the reality of the them, she slowly learns that she’s also connected to this Force and begins her own journey of self-discovery and self-actualization.

With broom boy, moments before his Force use, he is being told the story of Luke Skywalker’s grand stand against the evil First Order, with wonder in his eyes. He believes in the Jedi, in the Force, and that subtle moment, something he might not have even realized he did, is a representation of what the power of faith and hope can have in the world and in ourselves.

Anyway, just my two cents. Not trying to argue, just sharing my perspective.

^ very well said ! I came to the same conclusion a few pages back about the title literally being The Force Awakens on the first of the ST movies , but you expanded upon it here better than I did . Also brings to mind the tagline in the trailer for TFA , " There has been an awakening , have you felt it "?

And for me also explains why Snoke mistakenly thinks it may be Luke returning from self-imposed exile / cutting himself from the Force (and therefore in a rush to locate and destroy Luke) - not Rey - who is the actual awakening in the Force.

Snoke - ‘Come closer, child. So much strength. Darkness rises and light to meet it. I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise. Skywalker… I assumed, wrongly. Closer I said.’
 


Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?