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War does not make one great.
terror in london — Page 3
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--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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Originally posted by: Bossk
What would you use to get home if you took the Tube in? Buses? Taxis?
I got a bus, which took 2 and a half hours. But they're attacking buses too so there's still an element of risk I guess. Oh well, the tube was working again today so I'm back at work... I get the feeling that these second incidents were just a bunch of amatuer wannabes trying to get in on the act on the 2 week anniversary of the first lot, you know, trying to ride the wave. Dickheads.
You know, I think that in 100 years or whatever, the history books will look at this period of time (2001 to present) as the start of WW3. It's different to previous wars, but still a global war all the same. It's like a semi-cold war. A warm war!!
War does not make one great.
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The trains were running just long enough to get me into work and now they are out of service again because police have just shot down a terror suspect at Stockwell station...
War does not make one great.
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The Today Show had a funny quote about this second run of bombings. They speculated that these attacks were by the same group as the first set two weeks ago, but these terrorists were the "B Team" and not considered to be the higher echelon. Cracked me up.
You're the B Team, you're scum, you suck.
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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but yeah i heard they shot a guy today and made two arrests.
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The facts as I know them:
1. He was wearing a heavy padded coat (during the summer).
2. He failed to stop when the police asked him to stop.
3. British police have been given authorization to shoot to kill since shortly after 7/7.
4. He came out of a house that was under police observation.
5. I've heard nothing about his nationality.
Last, I really wish you'd get off the "Blood for Oil" thing Ric. Oil/Gas is more expensive now than its been any time in the past. The arguement does not make any sense.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm
I feel the cold and am English - I too wear thick jackets even in the summer - let alone someone who may well be used to a much hotter climate.
Some witnesses have said the man appeared to have headphones (for music) on - he may not have heard the police. As they were plain clothed 'policemen' with guns would you not run if suddenly a group of men started chasing after you with guns drawn? I imagine the investigation into this terrible incident will give us more facts.
5 bullets in the head and torso? I doubt that if the police - or whoever they were, if suspecting that he may be carrying explosives on him wwould shoot him in the torso (and risk hitting a detonator or explosive).
British police do not a shoot to kill policy - it may not have been the police that shot him, even if it were then the police have the right to stop a situation if they think by doing so it will prevent injury or death to others (or themselves). It is NOT a shoot to kill policy.
Ric, m8 - imho 'The West' is only just beginning to pay for it's meddling into affairs which it should have stayed out of, not only years ago but recently too. Ironically there are possilby more insurgents and terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan now then there were before The West invaded - and the situation seems far from a conclusion one way or the other...
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it was an unfortuneate accident and thats all it was no ones fault, and if you must put blame somewhere put it on the terrorist that have the police on such high alert.
as for the west is getting whats coming. in away they are but its not a very good arguement, doesnt help anyone or change anything. there is nothing th west can do right now what would stop the terrorist from attacking, short of giving power to the terrors in the respective countries they come from. and one more point its transnational coorperations from the US and the US economy which did damage to so many small nations, not europe or canada so dont say that england had this coming, the only reason they are being attacked is cause of afgainistian and iraq. and in away iraq had a purpose, its a place where the armies of the west can engage the terrorist. that was its main purpose i believe now. it was a place were would be terrorists coudl go fight and die there rather then come here and blow themselves up. i'm not saying its the best strat, but its a clever one in the end it might create bigger problems but that remains to be seen.
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
I just heard that the man shot by the english cops at the subway station, with five shots at the back of his head, was a brazillian who absolutely legally worked in England, who was running because he was late and did not hear the cops. I don't have much time to discuss this right now, but is this the price to pay for a pseudo oil fed "freedom"? Who are the terrorists? I say both sides.
*sigh* Is it really necessery to compare us with those the blow up subway stations and resturants and Hijack planes and fly them into building killing thousands of innocent people?
You say the man couldn't hear the cops, how do you know? I don't think anyone could ask him if heard the cops after he was shot and killed, and he is the only one that knows for certain if he heard the cops or not. Please remember London is in a state of high alert. If the cops let the man get away because they weren't sure the man could hear them shout "stop police!" and it turns out he was a terrorist, and them he blows up a another bus or subway station, what do you say the families of the people killed? Im not saying that the cops were right, I'm just saying that having to make a split second decision with that much at stake isn't easy.
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Originally posted by: oojason
imho 'The West' is only just beginning to pay for it's meddling into affairs which it should have stayed out of, not only years ago but recently too. Ironically there are possilby more insurgents and terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan now then there were before The West invaded - and the situation seems far from a conclusion one way or the other...
Yes "The West" made some mistakes, but tell me what the people who died in these terrorist attacks do? Must they for the mistakes of their governments? Did the thousands that died on 911 meddle in international affairs and invade Iraq and Afghanistan on their own? What did the children that lost parents in these terrorists attacks do to deserve their fate? And remember the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq happen after 911, not before. Right or wrong, I doubt the invasions would have happened, if there was no 911.
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Iraq and Afghanistan has turned into a nightmare for the West - terrorists are systematically spreading fear into the people of those countries by assassinating newly appointed government officials or those who ally themselves with the West - and make the Western amries look weak and inept in front of the people they are there to protect.
Warbler - "*sigh* Is it really necessery to compare us with those the blow up subway stations and resturants and Hijack planes and fly them into building killing thousands of innocent people?"
As opposed to being compared to those (us - the West) who bomb cities and kill innocent civilians with bombs from planes at great heights?
Invading Afghanistan and Iraq seemingly has had little effect in stopping or breeding terrorism or hate of the west.
Iraq had very little to do with terrorism at all before the west invaded - I still don't understand why people link the invasion of Iraq to stopping terrorism and 9/11.
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Off to bed in a minute
erm... what are YOU doing up this late
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come home wasted
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but my mind is old and needs kip - gnight m8
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Originally posted by: oojason
As opposed to being compared to those (us - the West) who bomb cities and kill innocent civilians with bombs from planes at great heights?
Most of time when we kill civilians, its because they are around a military target. Also when we do it, we have some sort of goal in mind, other than merely killing innocent people. The terrorists intentionally aim at killing civialians for no more reason than to do just that, kill civilian and scare everyone. Also its very difficult to compare a nation deciding to attack another nation(an act of war) with a group of individuals who get together a decide to kill civilians(simple criminal murder). I won't blame you if you don't any difference between war and simple criminal murder. But still the fact that the west has bombed cities and killed innocent civilians does not mean that the innocent people who died on 911 and on 7/7 deserved to die. Sometimes there may be justification for killing innocents. I'm sure we killed innocent people we were fighting Nazi Germany. But if were unwilling to kill innocent peolple when for example we bombed Berlin, we would not have be able to stop Hitler. But, does than mean that the innocent people we killed in WWII deserved die? No. Merely that there was no other way.
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Originally posted by: oojason
Iraq had very little to do with terrorism at all before the west invaded - I still don't understand why people link the invasion of Iraq to stopping terrorism and 9/11.
The point is, Bushes major justification for the invasion was the supposed link to 911. If there was no 911, Bush would not have had his "justification".