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a Star Trek thread... — Page 2

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Khan showed the original crew at its best is all. It got to the heart of the characters so well. Kirk never wanting to grow old is an ongoing theme in the Old series. The humor between him,Bones, and Spock was top notch. It just played the characters right is all.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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Also, after the disaster of the first film, fans wanted a more 'action packed' film. Something a little closer to the series. Khan delivered that. I think at the time, if I'm remembering my Trek history, that was going to be the last one so they pulled out all the stops. They wanted to give the fans a great film to go out on.

Of course, it made so much money that they continued the franchise.
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Count me among the Khan supporters. That was a spectacular ST film. The best of the bunch. You had a very well-defined evil vs. good conflict. You had terror. Human emotion. The works.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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Originally posted by: R2
Of course, it made so much money that they continued the franchise.
I'm not sure, but I think there was a tremendous outcry about killing Spock. They had to make ST3 to bring him back to life.
Then, they had to make ST4 to resolve the huge storyline and bring the crew back to Starfleet.
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That seems logical.
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Leonard Nimoy's 2nd autobiography sheds some interesting light on the whole Spock dying situation. The death was to originally occur early in the film, but both Nick Meyer and Nimoy thought that wouldn't do the character justice. Harve Bennett was the one who designed the backdoor that enabled ST III to be made (the mind meld sequence), and it was Jeff Katzenberg who championed the idea of Nimoy directing III.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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pretty groove info guys
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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Has anyone watched the making of documentary on the 2 disc set for Kahn? The part where Shatner gets pissed about not knowing about the mind meld at the end is rather funny. I think he even talks about it in the commentary for the film. I could be wrong on that since it's been a while since I watched the movie.
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^ I havn't m8, tho that sounds funny.

It's a shame that Saavik wasn't used (instead of Valeris) in The Undiscovered Country - would've made films 2, 3 and 6 into a cool trilogy.


Another bit of info:-

The DS9 writers originally drafted the end of DS9 with the Federation LOSING the war with The Dominion (though TPTB nixed it) - I know it would be very UnTrek of them to have an ending like that - but it would have opened up interesting possibilites for a new series (instead of ENT) and even an intriguing ending for VOY...
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that reallly would have been neat haveing the ferderination losing that war, then they could create a new series, where the federation is rebuilt.
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I'm a huge Trek fan, probably moreso than Star Wars. Sacrilege, I know, especially considering I run this site

Khan is easily the best Trek film ever. I watch it repeatedly. They brought in a real director, Nick Meyer, who actually went back to the original series and found a great nemesis for Kirk. Then he followed up by actually directing the cast and not letting them coast through the movie like it was a Trek episode. Khan proves that with good direction, the original cast--Shatner included--can actually act. Shatner gets a lot of flack for his acting in the original series, but he was great in Khan.

I was disappointed by Nemesis for the same reasons I've become somewhat disappointed with Star Trek in general: too much summer blockbuster garbage and not enough substance. That and the fact they lifted the plotline from Khan (the Captain must fight his arch nemesis to the death and a major cast member sacrifices himself to save the Enterprise).

Trek needs a long, long vacation. Look how long the concept was shelved between the original series and the first movie. They could bring back the Next Gen crew in 10 years; they'll still be young enough to make a movie. Certainly no older than the original crew was in Undiscovered Country.
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Never been a trekie myself. Honestly I always found Star Trek to be boring. Star Wars has always appealed to me much more. But thats just me.
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I'm the same way, Jimbo. However, Wrath of Khan is an exception. It was a stand-out film. Lots of action, lots of drama, lots of emotion. It was spectacular. If you haven't seen, give it a shot. You might be surprised.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Exactly. Most Trek stuff is for Trek fans only. Chances are you won't like most Trek shows and movies if you don't like the Trek universe in the first place.

Khan is not just a good Trek movie; it's a good movie period. I don't see how anyone who claims to be a fan of scifi-drama can not like Khan.

And Ricardo Montalbahn is a GREAT villain.

Shit, I have to watch it after work. I'm all fired up now.
originaltrilogy.com Administrator

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I hate to say it, but I agree with those that say Star Trek needs a long vacation. I think it also needs new blood and fresh ideas.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

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There's no question that Trek needs a hiatus. They translated the success of Next Generation to mean that people can't get enough Trek so they deluged us with God only knows how many different series. And they kicked the movies into high gear. And they burned out the franchise. Make it go away for about 5-10 years. Do nothing except books for a while. When it comes back after fans have had the time to cool off, it will likely be welcomed back with open arms. Just don't overdo it again.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Here, here. Paramount is just beating an almost dead horse. I'm totally for giving Trek a long needed rest. I personally am pretty burnt out on it. 6 TV series, 10 movies. I realize that Trek isn't going to ever go away, but I think that it's high time it was given a rest.
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me three. The original cast movies had alot more substance in them than the NG series and movies. That was why I liked them the best. Give Star Trek a rest and do something else for 5 to 10 years. Get it off of the minds of the writers and such. Let them explore different things than come back after the hiatus and watch all the good ideas just flow like water off a cliff.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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I have been a Trek fan and a Wars fan for as long as I remember. I actually thought fandom of both went hand in hand. A huge fan of the originals, I eventually decided that a man can't live on 79 episodes alone, and branched out.

1. TOS
2. TNG
2. DS9
3. VOY



Thanks to DS9, I also became a B5 fan(came on right after it). I don't have many favorite as I tend to like everything. I do love "The City on the Edge of Forever"(Gene Coon's masterpiece inspired by Ellison's original), "Space Seed", "A Balance of Terror", and "The Trouble with Tribbles" of TOS. My favorite DS9 episode has to be "In the Pale Moonlight", Avery Brooks' performence was outstanding in that one. I've read some novels, but it hurts that they aren't canon. I used to watch the animated series all the time when I was a kid. My favorite films are II/IV followed by VI.

I saw some episodes of Enterprise, but I hate how the Vulcans are depicted, how Scott Bakula gets another high profile sci-fi role(he's Sam Beckett, dammit), I all around didn't care for it. Then I catch some new episodes. They try the B5 route, with story arcs and such. It all focused on "the weapon", that and that stupid twist at the end sealed it. I hate Enterprise. I hate the fact that they use a song written for something else as the theme. I hate the continuety errors it causes by not having the NX-01 displayed proudly in the NCC-1701's rec room. I hate the 7 of 9 ripoff T'pol especially, she's a Romulan, not a Vulcan. I despise the fact that they alienated the fans by removing the Star Trek name from the title(then they wentr and added it). That was like saying, "we don't need you anymore, this is our saga". I don't know what's worse, Lucas ruining his own vision(which at least has a usually excellent EU to preserve it) or Paramount, Berman and crew destroying Roddenberry's.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Klingon, for me after Voyager (which I really, really liked) and Nemisis, I have been pretty much burned out on Trek. Funny, since I'm speding so much money on Trek DVD sets of these series. I'll just be glad when I have Voyager and the original series on DVD. If I buy Enterprise it will only be to have a complete library of Trek.

I am going to buy the animated series. I used to love that as a kid. My Trek DVD collection is getting WAY too big.
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I liked Nemesis. The overall theme of striving to better yourself beyond your own experience was well done, IMO. Much more of a thinking man's Trek than Enterprise. It's not without it's flaws however, but it gives hope. I blame Paramount for V. Read(or listen in my case) to Williams Shatner's Star Trek Movie Memories. The stories in it are priceless. Try the audiobooks as well, I usually don't care for audio books, but Shatner and Nimoy really bring their stories to life. Shatner's ST fiction is among the best, and I count it as kanon for the most part. YThe books try not to contradict one another. I say, cancel Enterprise(or greatly rework it). Let ST drop for awhile with new kanon novels. Then bring it back. The EU revitalizes and kept me active in SW up to and including my expansion of intrest in animation to include anime. It would probably help ST.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Enterprise and the novel contradictions are the only thing that bothers me in Trek. The novels are good, but after I read "Federation" and thaen First Contact threw most of it away, it makes following them a bit hard.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Let ST drop for awhile


Klingon, that seems to be the consensus. Trek is pretty much dead. I think Paramount should either give it a rest or just let it die. It's been overkill.

I liked Nemisis, but it just didn't do it for me. There is a good movie there somewhere. I think that they edited the film down too much. In retrospeck, since audiences sat through 3 hour movies like LOTR and 2 1/2 hours for Harry Potter, I think that Paramount underestimated what the audience would accept in terms of length.

Hell, if people could sit through that long boring first Trek film and this didn't kill the franchise, then a 3 hour Nemisis sure wasn't going to kill it.
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'In The Pale Moonlight' - quite possibly THE best Trek episode of the modern Trek era.

I hear from a lot of fans that one of the reasons why they couldn't get into DS9 was Avery Brook's performances as Captain. This episode, and many others, IMHO prove otherwise.

If only Trek took more risque chances in it's episodes, instead of playing it safe, it wouldn't be in the dire predicament it is today.


Just some of the other great DS9 episodes (even if you're not a fan of DS9):-

The Visitor (S4)

In Purgatory's Shadow (S5)

In The Cards (S5)

The Seige Of AR-558 (S7)

Duet (S1)

The Wire (S3)

Starship Down (S4)
originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here?
And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?