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The deletion of the political threads. — Page 2

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I see that oojason has posted a reply. I hope that someone still in management here replies at some point. I am not going to address everything oojason said(so if I don’t address something he says, don’t take it as me necessarily agreeing with him), but I will address a some.

oojason said:

Warbler said:

I was keeping that inside me for along time and then came a tipping point. Jay making oojason a moderator(btw, Jay should have made that announcement, not Silverwook, announcing new mods is a job for the admin).

Does it really matter who made the announcement? Whether it was Jay, SilverWook or Anchorhead? Either way the announcement made - and it was clear & concise.

Perception. When Silverwook made the announcement, I wondered why he did and not Jay. I hadn’t seen Jay around for awhile. I thought maybe he could have gone awol(he did that once before way back, before I was a member). Was Silverwook taking upon himself to appoint someone a moderator? I didn’t know. If Jay had made the announcement, it would have let everyone know right away that he stood behind oojason. As I recall Jay had to come out later on make clear that he approved of oojason and what he was doing. If Jay had made announcement, that would not have been necessary. Additionally, Jay is lone admin and owner. Doesn’t it just make sense for him to be the one to make announcements of that magnitude?

It also appeared across the top of every section of the site - and no-one else seemingly had an issue with it, that I recall.

It happened day before our incident in the politics thread. I somehow missed it. I am human. Shoot me. Additionally at that time moderators were not marked. Consequently, I did not realize that oojason was a moderator.

It shortly became clear that oojason was very strictly enforcing the rules. The problem is, until after I got banned, no one had given any warning that the rules were now going to be more strictly enforced. Another thing was that I got temp banned before anything had been done to the likes of Darth Id, General Frevious, and Jediuze(I forget how it is spelled and I can’t see the politic thread to get the right spelling) which were clearly trolls and had behaved much worse than I did. This was a tipping off point for me. It made me think there was a double standard going on. It just further cemented my anger. But I again tried to more on from it.

I disagree with that, somewhat. As stated to you before the rules are there to help make this place a civil one. It’s not a strict application of those rules I undertook -

Whether you want to call it strict or not, you were clearly enforced more strictly than they had been. It was change that was not announced until after I got temp banned.

If you’re referring to you being asked to reduce the size of your signature… it was a little on the large size, Warb. It took up nearly half the page.

As I recall the problem was only one mobile devices. On desktops, it looked fine. Then again, people are using mobile devices a lot these days. However, as I recall, my sig had been unchanged for a while(multiple months), without anyone complaining to me and that includes moderators. Additionally, what made that situation personal, was the fact the in that sig was tribute to my father who had passed away about year before oojason complained about my sig.

If you’re referring to me asking you to stop with the ‘sigh only’ posts - that was also explained at the time in a bid to try and cut down on misunderstandings to when you had previously posed ‘sighs’ and members would get the wrong end of the stick by you meant or what you were referring to - resulting in your original point being lost, forgotten or ignored. In a bid to improve the flow and understanding of the point you were making you were asked give an explanation along with when you sighed. (Other members were asked to stop with the ‘hahahaha’ type posts too - both part of a bid to improve the quality and flow of discussion).

All I know I that I was making my sigh posts just like I had always done and then suddenly when oojason became a moderator, it became problem. In any event, I think we all have to agree I do it a lot less these days.

For banning someone who posted up an image regarding paedophilia, bestiality and religious intolerance (and IIRC was also racist?), and who also kicked off at the mods and then re-posted the offending image - I’ve no qualms about my actions there.

Just so everyone knows what oojason is referring to here. It image in question was one of a westboro baptists protester, holding up offensive signs. I was not posting it condone, or agree with what they do or condone or approve of paedophilia, bestiality, religious intolerance, racism, or homophobia. I think the westbor baptists are the scum of the earth. I absolutely hate what they do. oojason knowing me as long as he did, should known that would not approve of those things or the westboro baptists. I posted the pic to show that not all peaceful protesters are good people. I thought I had made that clear in the initial post. I thought, if the post was read in the contexts of the posts that had come before and with the accompanying text with the pic, that my reasons and intentions were clear. But turned out it was not. I made more clear my reason for posting the pic later on, but it was not done fast enough to suit oojason.

Warbler said:

  1. Inconsistent moderation. Let us face it, how Silverwook moderates compared to how oojason did is night and day. They are entirely different. That is a problem. Moderation, no matter who is doing it needs to be consistent. It is not fair that whether someone is punished for something and/or what the punishment is, depends on who is doing the moderating. Tell your moderators how you want and expect the forum to be moderated and make sure they are all moderating it the same. This would also help in making clear how you expect people to behave.

Yes, we’re different people, though as stated before by the other mods, and Jay, we are not a hive mind. I’ll freely admit I’m the ‘worst’ mod on here and made a fair few mistakes - though it’s a high bar on here (and both love and respect SilverWook, Anchorhead, Zion, Moth3r & Jay and the way they handle(d) things, their commitment and dedication to the site.

I realize you are not a hive mind. But can you see the problem if person A and person B do the same thing, and then oojason catches person A and bans him and Silverwook catches person B and does nothing? Can’t you see a problem with inconsistent enforcement of the rules. Sure no two mods will ever do everything exactly the same, but there does and should be some level of consistency.

The thing with the westboro baptist pic is a perfect example. I would bet my life savings that if you hadn’t been a moderator at the time, Silverwook would have taken no action on the pic. None. I know that because not long before that incident, I had posted another pic of the westboro baptists, again to use an example and Silverwook did nothing. That is what I mean by inconsistent moderation.

That you believe that Jay didn’t converse with us on issues is baffling to me - or that we actually often talked issues through before acting on them at times baffles me too.

I don’t know why that would baffle you. We(regular forums) have no idea what you do and do not discuss in private.

As for your earlier statement in which…

Warbler said:

But why did I react the way I did? Anger. Anger at what has gone on here for years. I have been a forum member here for 15 years. For a large percentage of that, I have felt like dirt under Jay’s feet. I realize I share part of the blame. I know some it goes back to my actions during what I have always called the great forum schism(now I guess it is the first forum schism) back in 2006 with the situation involving Dayv and fanedit.com(now fanedit.org). I do regret some of how I acted and some of what I said. I believe I have said that before. I also deeply regret the times I trolled on here. I admit it was childish and stupid and I am embarrassed about doing so. I do believe that even though I have tried to move on from both, I don’t think Jay has never been able to truly forgive me and it has caused animosity between us for years. But it is not just that.

It has do with years of Jay acting like he preferred the Trolls over legitimate forum members. It used to be trolls could get away with murder on here. I have been the victim of bullying and personal attacks from trolls, with Jay and his mods doing nothing. Finally, they started moderating the off topic section, but my anger at having to put up with the trolls for years while Jay and the mods did nothing, remained. To me at the time I thought all Jay and the mods should do is just perm ban the trolls and leave off topic otherwise un-moderated. I think I now realize it’s a little more complicated than that. I also felt and still feel that Jay has never appreciated the special place that off topic became(note, I did not say perfect). To my point of view, he has always had disdain for the off topic section and consequently, we(those post most often in off topic) have felt like Jay’s dirty ugly step children. That fed into the animosity and my anger. There were also multiple PMs to you and other mods that went unanswered. That too fed into my anger.

Just a quick one, here. I believe you are wrong on how you believe Jay sees you.

If I am, he can tell me himself.

Despite you publishing private email conversations on the site,

I believe I apologized for doing that. I will apologize again. I am sorry I published private email conversations. I admit it was a bad mistake on my part. Again, I am sorry.

harassing me after you were asked to stop contacting me

Remind me, when did I do that?

and then giving quite a one-eyed opinion of what had occurred at the time in your ‘Warbler’s Statement’ thread…

It was not intended to be one-eyed. But you clearly had the ability to correct any inaccuracies that I had made.

I’ll let you know Jay was person who asked me to reduce your ‘week off’ for doing so to just a few days, and that he generally speaks well of you in the Admin section.

That he speaks well of me would shock me. Unfortunately, I can’t read the Admin section to know for sure. I didn’t even know there was an admin section.

Jay also had no problem with you using the site to start up ‘Warbler’s Place 2 - PM Boogaloo’ type PM threads - despite you not posting on the open forum.

Any private threads I have created are just that - private. They are nothing like what “Warbler’s Place” was.

Jay has also gone to significant efforts to reform the Off Topic for the better - giving members here what they they long wished for - a place to discuss media, film, tv, music, art, politics, religion, sport, life etc in a place outside of the old Off Topic section - yet still contain that (now Cantina) section - where members are more free to goofball & mess around - and is more freely moderated than other sections of the site.

fixed.

Also, your claim that multiple PM to the mods went unanswered is not true - I’ve answered every single one of your many PMs to me (bar your last PM reply to me). You may not have liked or agreed with the content - though they were all answered, and I believe engaged with - and given the same respect, thought, care and attention that I gave to everyone else. The reason why I haven’t responded to your last PM reply is that I no longer wish to spend any more time and effort here discussing issues with you when you state that collipso’s open letter (containing ‘go drive yourself into a tree’) is ‘it was a thing of beauty’ and that ‘you loved the open letter’.

To clarify: My claim about multiple PMs to the mods going unanswered does not apply to oojason. He did answer the PMs I sent to him. What I was referring to were situations that happened before oojason was a moderator. The PMs in question were mostly ones sent to Jay or Silverwook.

My time spent here is limited (though it certainly may not seem like it of late! 😃) due to changes in personal circumstances mean I stepped down as moderator here (something which can take a lot out of a person).

I realize that moderating can take a lot out of a person, that is why I suggested adding additional mods and an admit, to lower the workload.

Regardless of Jay being involved in a car accident years ago - or whether collipso knew of that or not… it was out of order and a disgusting thing for him to say to anyone (basically to go kill yourself).

It may well have been. But I say again neither he nor I ever seriously wanted Jay to kill himself.

Honestly, I never thought there’d be day where I believed this site would be a better place without you - though given your continuing & selective views of me and others (as well as aggressive attitude to me in your PMs), your obvious and clear frustrations with the site & how it’s run, the anger which has manifested itself within you over that time - and also your recent comments & claims - I no longer believe that to be the case.

I’m sorry you feel that way, but you are entitled to your opinion.


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Warbler said:

oojason said:

For banning someone who posted up an image regarding paedophilia, bestiality and religious intolerance (and IIRC was also racist?), and who also kicked off at the mods and then re-posted the offending image - I’ve no qualms about my actions there.

Just so everyone knows what oojason is referring to here. It image in question was one of a westboro baptists protester, holding up offensive signs. I was not posting it condone, or agree with what they do or condone or approve of paedophilia, bestiality, religious intolerance, racism, or homophobia. I think the westbor baptists are the scum of the earth. I absolutely hate what they do. oojason knowing me as long as he did, should known that would not approve of those things or the westboro baptists. I posted the pic to show that not all peaceful protesters are good people. I thought I had made that clear in the initial post. I thought, if the post was read in the contexts of the posts that had come before and with the accompanying text with the pic, that my reasons and intentions were clear. But turned out it was not. I made more clear my reason for posting the pic later on, but it was not done fast enough to suit oojason.

Oojason’s referring to Haseo and the image which got him banned.

Starve the rich.

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 (Edited)

If that is so, my mistake, sorry. I don’t remember the incident with Haseo. For all I know, he deserved what he got.


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This thread has been a bit exhausting, but I hope what has been said here is taken to heart. This place won’t get better if the mods and the community of users are always at eachother’s throats, and I’m optimistic that it will.

“After a time, you may find that having, is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” - Spock

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Handman said:

This thread has been a bit exhausting, but I hope what has been said here is taken to heart. This place won’t get better if the mods and the community of users are always at eachother’s throats, and I’m optimistic that it will.

Very, very, true.


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DuracellEnergizer said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

For banning someone who posted up an image regarding paedophilia, bestiality and religious intolerance (and IIRC was also racist?), and who also kicked off at the mods and then re-posted the offending image - I’ve no qualms about my actions there.

Just so everyone knows what oojason is referring to here. It image in question was one of a westboro baptists protester, holding up offensive signs. I was not posting it condone, or agree with what they do or condone or approve of paedophilia, bestiality, religious intolerance, racism, or homophobia. I think the westbor baptists are the scum of the earth. I absolutely hate what they do. oojason knowing me as long as he did, should known that would not approve of those things or the westboro baptists. I posted the pic to show that not all peaceful protesters are good people. I thought I had made that clear in the initial post. I thought, if the post was read in the contexts of the posts that had come before and with the accompanying text with the pic, that my reasons and intentions were clear. But turned out it was not. I made more clear my reason for posting the pic later on, but it was not done fast enough to suit oojason.

Oojason’s referring to Haseo and the image which got him banned.

Actually I think he’s talking about jediknightsuzini.

The Person in Question

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Warbler said:

As I recall the problem was only one mobile devices. On desktops, it looked fine. Then again, people are using mobile devices a lot these days. However, as I recall, my sig had been unchanged for a while(multiple months), without anyone complaining to me and that includes moderators.

No, members here had voiced displeasure at having to scroll past many consecutive posts made by yourself (or near-on consecutive posts seemingly in the Politics thread) in which the size of your signature took up half a page (so I think it likely they were referring to viewing the site on desktops) - often containing one word or one-line replies / answers - in each post - making them apparently ‘difficult’ to find and read.

IIRC Members were also asking mods for clarification on rules in a bid to reduce the size of some other member’s signatures too (and for their own signatures) - which was also done; along with an issue re the photobucket image hosting company around that time too - of which an error on photobucket’s part resulted in some members’ signatures on here being ‘blown up’ to disproportionate sizes - or previously having large ‘photobucket wants $100’s from you to be able to 3rd party image link to’ type adverts in place of member signatures on here - a month or so earlier.

Anyway, back to your signature…

which can also be viewed here:-

http://web.archive.org/web/20171021172019/http://originaltrilogy.com:80/topic/Politics-2-Electric-Boogaloo/id/53003/page/488
 

Additionally, what made that situation personal, was the fact the in that sig was tribute to my father who had passed away about year before oojason complained about my sig.

For whatever reason, you forget to mention that both SilverWook and myself made mock-up alternative signatures for you - containing the same images and text in a more acceptable sized signatures (inkeeping with the rules). You declined them both (and further offers of adjustments/changes you may have preferred) which is fair enough - yet you also stated around the time you were considering changing your signature regardless - to something not relating to your deceased father.
 

(^ the image host is seemingly making them appear a little larger than originally done)

 

All I know I that I was making my sigh posts just like I had always done and then suddenly when oojason became a moderator, it became problem. In any event, I think we all have to agree I do it a lot less these days.

A few members had issues with your repeated ‘sigh only’ posts over a reasonable amount of time (as an example - http://web.archive.org/web/20171029004630/http://originaltrilogy.com:80/topic/Politics-2-Electric-Boogaloo/id/53003/page/498 - a post by you in October '17 in which you sighed 9 times in a row as replies to other member’s posts - followed by another sigh later on on the same page.)

Maybe when you state that ‘and then oojason suddenly became a moderator, it became a problem’ you meant that I was merely the mod who dealt with members’ continuing issues on your ‘sigh only’ posts at the time - web.archive.org/web/20171206053456/http://originaltrilogy.com:80/topic/Politics-2-Electric-Boogaloo/id/53003/page/556 (December, '17).

It seems my intent behind it to try and help you make your oft-valued points to others here (that was also explained at the time in a bid to try and cut down on misunderstandings to when you had previously posed ‘sighs’ and members would get the wrong end of the stick by you meant or what you were referring to - resulting in your original point being lost, forgotten or ignored. In a bid to improve the flow and understanding of the point you were making you were asked give an explanation along with when you sighed)… is (and was) lost on you. I think it’s also worth noting you didn’t seemingly have an issue with being asked to give an explanation alongside your ‘sighs’ until some time later.
 

Just so everyone knows what oojason is referring to here. It image in question was one of a westboro baptists protester, holding up offensive signs. I was not posting it condone, or agree with what they do or condone or approve of paedophilia, bestiality, religious intolerance, racism, or homophobia. I think the westbor baptists are the scum of the earth. I absolutely hate what they do. oojason knowing me as long as he did, should known that would not approve of those things or the westboro baptists. I posted the pic to show that not all peaceful protesters are good people. I thought I had made that clear in the initial post. I thought, if the post was read in the contexts of the posts that had come before and with the accompanying text with the pic, that my reasons and intentions were clear. But turned out it was not. I made more clear my reason for posting the pic later on, but it was not done fast enough to suit oojason.

No, it wasn’t what I was referring to (DuracellEnergizer is correct with his post on the matter) - it was referencing Haseo’s image containing paedophilia, bestiality and religious intolerance (and IIRC was also racist). Haseo also described the image himself as ‘vile in nature’. I received some criticism for banning him for the incident - that’s fair enough if people disagreed. Yet I’d have still done exactly the same if such noxious images had again been posted on here.

As for the facts of the situation surrounding your 2-day cool-off period (and later 1 week temp-ban, later shortened to 3/4 days) I refer you to your own ‘A Statement from Warbler’ thread, here - link - and maybe give some time and consideration to what actually occurred at the time; and also to my two reply posts addressing your issues and queries - along with hyperbolic statements back then by yourself - just to refresh your consistently failing & selective memory of events.
 

I don’t know why that would baffle you. We(regular forums) have no idea what you do and do not discuss in private.

Admins and moderators talk with each often about many issues on site - which is likely the case on many websites & forums. It goes someway to having more consistent moderation throughout the forum - which is a positive thing - as you have previously stated here, yes? (just a rhetorical question - do not feel the need to answer).
 

It may well have been. But I say again neither he nor I ever seriously wanted Jay to kill himself.

Well, that’s obviously fine and okay to say (and love it and find it beautiful) such things if you don’t seriously mean them…

(^ I shall await Jay’s inclusion of a working sarcasm emoticon for the forum, hopefully in the near future, to insert here)
 

It was not intended to be one-eyed. But you clearly had the ability to correct any inaccuracies that I had made.

It’d be more factual to say ‘you continue to correct many of my inaccuracies, false claims and my problems with moderator duties/decisions I don’t agree with’, yes?

You’ve made some of these (and more) false accusations & statements before - also previously rebuffed, and evidenced with facts too… yet here we are again… me refuting your somewhat one-eyed revisionist claims at best. Willfully deceiving and seemingly part of some sort of agenda at worst.

I can’t speak for Jay & The Mods - though am not surprised if they choose not to engage with someone who throws baseless & revisionist accusations (and possible agenda) at them, as you have done in here, on the open forums, in PM threads, and elsewhere too - over time. Though maybe they’re just busy modding.
 

I won’t be engaging with you in any further discussion - even in here - which has been only to correct your distorted claims. For whatever reason it is apparent you are trying to deceive and manipulate people into trying to believe your fictitious view… along with your likely forthcoming posts in here furthering your attempts to achieve just that… I hope others in here also see your false and inaccurate claims for just what they are… I’m no longer going to be a part of these twisted re-interpretations on your part.
 

As stated before… I wish you well for the future, Warbler - though I hope it is away from here, for both the good of the site - and also yourself. Good luck.

 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

For banning someone who posted up an image regarding paedophilia, bestiality and religious intolerance (and IIRC was also racist?), and who also kicked off at the mods and then re-posted the offending image - I’ve no qualms about my actions there.

Just so everyone knows what oojason is referring to here. It image in question was one of a westboro baptists protester, holding up offensive signs. I was not posting it condone, or agree with what they do or condone or approve of paedophilia, bestiality, religious intolerance, racism, or homophobia. I think the westbor baptists are the scum of the earth. I absolutely hate what they do. oojason knowing me as long as he did, should known that would not approve of those things or the westboro baptists. I posted the pic to show that not all peaceful protesters are good people. I thought I had made that clear in the initial post. I thought, if the post was read in the contexts of the posts that had come before and with the accompanying text with the pic, that my reasons and intentions were clear. But turned out it was not. I made more clear my reason for posting the pic later on, but it was not done fast enough to suit oojason.

Oojason’s referring to Haseo and the image which got him banned.

Spot on, Duracell.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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Warbler said:

If that is so, my mistake, sorry. I don’t remember the incident with Haseo. For all I know, he deserved what he got.


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 (Edited)

oojason said:

Warbler said:

As I recall the problem was only one mobile devices. On desktops, it looked fine. Then again, people are using mobile devices a lot these days. However, as I recall, my sig had been unchanged for a while(multiple months), without anyone complaining to me and that includes moderators.

No, members here had voiced displeasure at having to scroll past many consecutive posts made by yourself (or near-on consecutive posts seemingly in the Politics thread) in which the size of your signature took up half a page (so I think it likely they were referring to viewing the site on desktops) - often containing one word or one-line replies / answers - in each post - making them apparently ‘difficult’ to find and read.

I said no one, including moderators, complained TO ME. Maybe they did complain to you and Silverwook. YOU may have received complaints, but no one told ME until in the Star Trek thread in October of 2017. The question then is, why did you guys wait so long to bring them to me? (Yes Silverwook had raised complaints about my sig in Decemember of 2016 and I thought we resolved them, after that I didn’t receive any complaints until October of 2017 in the Star Trek Thread.)

‘photobucket wants $100’s from you to be able to 3rd party image link to’ type adverts in place of member signatures on here - a month or so earlier.

If that was talked about on the forum, I have forgotten.

Anyway, back to your signature…

which can also be viewed here:-

http://web.archive.org/web/20171021172019/http://originaltrilogy.com:80/topic/Politics-2-Electric-Boogaloo/id/53003/page/488
 

Additionally, what made that situation personal, was the fact the in that sig was tribute to my father who had passed away about year before oojason complained about my sig.

For whatever reason, you forget to mention that both SilverWook and myself made mock-up alternative signatures for you - containing the same images and text in a more acceptable sized signatures (inkeeping with the rules). You declined them both (and further offers of adjustments/changes you may have preferred) which is fair enough

I did forget that. I am sorry. You are right, I should have mentioned that. That was wrong of me. But it doesn’t change my main point - which is my sig was unchanged for months without anyone, including moderators, complaining TO ME

And yeah, I turne your resized sigs down. At the time, I was upset and depressed about what was going on with the forum (and maybe personal stuff going on) and I just turned them down. Maybe if I had to do over again, I would use one of them, I don’t know. Again I should have mentioned all this, but I forgot and I didn’t. I was wrong and I am sorry about that.

  • yet you also stated around the time you were considering changing your signature regardless - to something not relating to your deceased father.
     

I believe at the time I said at some point, I would remove the tribute when I felt the time was right. That is quite different than having to remove it due to complaints. At the time of our dispute, I did not feel the time was right.

(^ the image host is seemingly making them appear a little larger than originally done)

 

All I know I that I was making my sigh posts just like I had always done and then suddenly when oojason became a moderator, it became problem. In any event, I think we all have to agree I do it a lot less these days.

A few members had issues with your repeated ‘sigh only’ posts over a reasonable amount of time (as an example - http://web.archive.org/web/20171029004630/http://originaltrilogy.com:80/topic/Politics-2-Electric-Boogaloo/id/53003/page/498 - a post by you in October '17 in which you sighed 9 times in a row as replies to other member’s posts - followed by another sigh later on on the same page.)

I sighed joke posts. I didn’t realize it would become such a bid deal. But still maintain my belief that I was not signing any more often than I used to.

Maybe when you state that ‘and then oojason suddenly became a moderator, it became a problem’ you meant that I was merely the mod who dealt with members’ continuing issues on your ‘sigh only’ posts at the time - web.archive.org/web/20171206053456/http://originaltrilogy.com:80/topic/Politics-2-Electric-Boogaloo/id/53003/page/556 (December, '17).

No other mod had complained to me about my sighing, not even Jay.

It seems my intent behind it to try and help you make your oft-valued points to others here (that was also explained at the time in a bid to try and cut down on misunderstandings to when you had previously posed ‘sighs’ and members would get the wrong end of the stick by you meant or what you were referring to - resulting in your original point being lost, forgotten or ignored. In a bid to improve the flow and understanding of the point you were making you were asked give an explanation along with when you sighed)… is (and was) lost on you. I think it’s also worth noting you didn’t seemingly have an issue with being asked to give an explanation alongside your ‘sighs’ until some time later.
 

Or maybe I just kept it to myself.

Just so everyone knows what oojason is referring to here. It image in question was one of a westboro baptists protester, holding up offensive signs. I was not posting it condone, or agree with what they do or condone or approve of paedophilia, bestiality, religious intolerance, racism, or homophobia. I think the westbor baptists are the scum of the earth. I absolutely hate what they do. oojason knowing me as long as he did, should known that would not approve of those things or the westboro baptists. I posted the pic to show that not all peaceful protesters are good people. I thought I had made that clear in the initial post. I thought, if the post was read in the contexts of the posts that had come before and with the accompanying text with the pic, that my reasons and intentions were clear. But turned out it was not. I made more clear my reason for posting the pic later on, but it was not done fast enough to suit oojason.

No, it wasn’t what I was referring to (DuracellEnergizer is correct with his post on the matter) - it was referencing Haseo’s image containing paedophilia, bestiality and religious intolerance (and IIRC was also racist). Haseo also described the image himself as ‘vile in nature’. I received some criticism for banning him for the incident - that’s fair enough if people disagreed. Yet I’d have still done exactly the same if such noxious images had again been posted on here.

Okay, my mistake. I thought you were talking about when I posted the Westboro Baptist pic. For all I know, Haseo got what he deserved.

As for the facts of the situation surrounding your 2-day cool-off period (and later 1 week temp-ban, later shortened to 3/4 days) I refer you to your own ‘A Statement from Warbler’ thread, here - link - and maybe give some time and consideration to what actually occurred at the time; and also to my two reply posts addressing your issues and queries - along with hyperbolic statements back then by yourself - just to refresh your consistently failing & selective memory of events.
 

I have re-read many times the “statement from Warbler thread” and the posts in the politics thread that led up to that thread being created. I have given it a lot of time and consideration to actually occurred.

I don’t know why that would baffle you. We(regular forums) have no idea what you do and do not discuss in private.

Admins and moderators talk with each often about many issues on site - which is likely the case on many websites & forums. It goes someway to having more consistent moderation throughout the forum - which is a positive thing - as you have previously stated here, yes? (just a rhetorical question - do not feel the need to answer).
 

I will answer anyway. Yes, it is a positive thing. Jay and the mods should be talking to each other about the many issues on the site. But like I said, If you did talk about this stuff, we(regular members would have no idea we can’t see this admin section). Given the inconsistent moderation, it seemed like you guys did not talk all that much.

It may well have been. But I say again neither he nor I ever seriously wanted Jay to kill himself.

Well, that’s obviously fine and okay to say (and love it and find it beautiful) such things if you don’t seriously mean them…

It is not fine and okay to say. But I think a lot of people are making it out to be worse than it is. It was said at a time when I was really angry Jay, right after multiple people got banned and one my favorite threads had been locked and vanished and politics was banned from the forum. I am sure you’ve never said rash things when you’ve been angry or upset .

It was not intended to be one-eyed. But you clearly had the ability to correct any inaccuracies that I had made.

It’d be more factual to say ‘you continue to correct many of my inaccuracies, false claims and my problems with moderator duties/decisions I don’t agree with’, yes?

You have corrected a few inaccuracies and brought up relevant info to the subject at hand that I had forgotten. But I give my word I never set out to intentionally deceive anyone. Your treatment of this shows what I mean when I say that you assume the worst about intentions. I admit that I have forgotten some important details which you have brought up? It is possible that it have forgotten things due to memory bias I don’t know. What I do know that I never intentionally tried to deceive or paint a false picture of what occurred. I don’t do that, despite what you might want to believe. For forgetting and failing to include important details, I apologize. Again it was not intentional.

You’ve made some of these (and more) false accusations & statements before - also previously rebuffed, and evidenced with facts too… yet here we are again… me refuting your somewhat one-eyed revisionist claims at best. Willfully deceiving and seemingly part of some sort of agenda at worst.

There has been no willful attempt to deceive from me.

I won’t be engaging with you in any further discussion - even in here -

That is your choice and it may be for the best. I think we past being able to straighten this out. I think we are just talking past each other at this point.

which has been only to correct your distorted claims. For whatever reason it is apparent you are trying to deceive and manipulate people into trying to believe your fictitious view… along with your likely forthcoming posts in here furthering your attempts to achieve just that… I hope others in here also see your false and inaccurate claims for just what they are… I’m no longer going to be a part of these twisted re-interpretations on your part.

There has been no twisted re-interpretations on my part at all. Honest mistakes? Yes. Willful deceit? no.

With you assuming I am this terrible person and believing that I am trying to deceive everyone and making false claims and what not, I guess there is not much more to discuss.

It is very sad that this has occurred, oojason. Very sad. I wish I knew how to fix this, but I don’t. You are going to believe what you want about me no matter what I say and do. It is clear to me that our biases against each other are affecting our views and memories of what happen. If you weren’t so intent on believing that I am sort sort of terrible lying deceiving scumbag, maybe we could fix this. But we can’t. Very sad.

 

As stated before… I wish you well for the future, Warbler - though I hope it is away from here, for both the good of the site - and also yourself. Good luck.

 

I am sorry I stole that loaf of bread.


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 (Edited)

Warbler, i didn’t read most of that, but i do see some of your comments at the end, and i agree and echo them.

Warbler said:

There has been no twisted re-interpretations on my part at all. Honest mistakes? Yes. Willful deceit? no.

With you assuming I am this terrible person and believing that I am trying to deceive everyone and making false claims and what not, I guess there is not much more to discuss.

It is very sad that this has occurred, oojason. Very sad. I wish I knew how to fix this, but I don’t. You are going to believe what you want about me no matter what I say and do. It is clear to me that our biases against each other are affecting our views and memories of what happen. If you weren’t so intent on believing that I am sort sort of terrible lying deceiving scumbag, maybe we could fix this. But we can’t. Very sad.

There has been a lot of broad stroke painting of various user’s intentions going on as part of the sh!t-fest lately, and it saddens me as well.

users are doing it against Jay / oojason, and oojason and Jay are doing it against users. It is a sad state.

time to remember that everyone on this site (well, other than the bots) are humans, and for the most part we want to be here and want to be part of the community.

All of this painting people as terrible and saying we are better off without them is not good.

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I agree with dahmage above. I had thought we had just about moved on and learned from our mistakes, but my posts here have been left unaddressed as the situation here remains the same. It’s really unfortunate and makes me sad.

“After a time, you may find that having, is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” - Spock

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dahmage said:

Warbler, i didn’t read most of that, but i do see some of your comments at the end, and i agree and echo them.

Warbler said:

There has been no twisted re-interpretations on my part at all. Honest mistakes? Yes. Willful deceit? no.

With you assuming I am this terrible person and believing that I am trying to deceive everyone and making false claims and what not, I guess there is not much more to discuss.

It is very sad that this has occurred, oojason. Very sad. I wish I knew how to fix this, but I don’t. You are going to believe what you want about me no matter what I say and do. It is clear to me that our biases against each other are affecting our views and memories of what happen. If you weren’t so intent on believing that I am sort sort of terrible lying deceiving scumbag, maybe we could fix this. But we can’t. Very sad.

There has been a lot of broad stroke painting of various user’s intentions going on as part of the sh!t-fest lately, and it saddens me as well.

users are doing it against Jay / oojason, and oojason and Jay are doing it against users. It is a sad state.

time to remember that everyone on this site (well, other than the bots) are humans, and for the most part we want to be here and want to be part of the community.

All of this painting people as terrible and saying we are better off without them is not good.

Unfortunately when you are basically being lied about whilst being misled, then are asked for help from the same person and give them that help - only to be criticised and further misled… it eventually has an effect. There are many lengthy from PMs to me from Warbler starting off along the lines of ‘I am only asking for info’ before descending into an attack or dig because he didn’t like or agree with the info provided - or just wasn’t being upfront and truthful about his intentions? As well as snarky / snide posts afterwards.

Yet, after all this I was still answering Warb’s queries - even after my time a mod here finished… though after this latest incident, along with those comments about collipso’s open letter, I’m done with him; yet am quite sure Warb will carry on painting me in a negative light, along with him being misunderstood or forgetful, which he has done for quite some time until challenged and the fuller picture is presented. I don’t think Warb is a terrible or bad person - though do think he deceives people and has an agenda to not be found at fault when people call him out on incidents.

Meh. Life’s too short for continually indulging people like that (referring to my 1st paragraph here) - even online on a quality Star Wars website such as this. It’s better to challenge those one-eyed revisionist points made about you to give people a wider more accurate picture - wish your ‘accuser’ (for want of a better word) well, and then ignore him.

 

Handman said:

I agree with dahmage above. I had thought we had just about moved on and learned from our mistakes, but my posts here have been left unaddressed as the situation here remains the same. It’s really unfortunate and makes me sad.

Sorry mate, this is the ‘Warbler takes yet another pop at Jay, oojason and mods thread’. It didn’t start off like that - yet somehow descended into having digs at the above after a few posts. Huh - a bit of deja vu there. I’m sorry if your posts have got lost in amongst that - maybe a new thread for what you have to say would be better suited?

Though to be honest… I’d rather just move on and forwards - yet feel free to send me a PM if you have any queries or would like to discuss any issues.

 


 

Edit 14/12…
 

Firstly, thanks to Warbler for removing the name-calling content and also editing his initial post content to a more cordial tone - I hadn’t noticed his edits as they were made after his last post in here below.
 

Warbler said:

You have corrected a few inaccuracies and brought up relevant info to the subject at hand that I had forgotten. But I give my word I never set out to intentionally deceive anyone. Your treatment of this shows what I mean when I say that you assume the worst about intentions. I admit that I have forgotten some important details which you have brought up? It is possible that it have forgotten things due to memory bias I don’t know. What I do know that I never intentionally tried to deceive or paint a false picture of what occurred. I don’t do that, despite what you might want to believe. For forgetting and failing to include important details, I apologize. Again it was not intentional.

Warbler said:

With you assuming I am this terrible person and believing that I am trying to deceive everyone and making false claims and what not, I guess there is not much more to discuss.

It is very sad that this has occurred, oojason. Very sad. I wish I knew how to fix this, but I don’t. You are going to believe what you want about me no matter what I say and do. It is clear to me that our biases against each other are affecting our views and memories of what happen. If you weren’t so intent on believing that I am sort sort of terrible lying deceiving scumbag, maybe we could fix this. But we can’t. Very sad.

 

There is no fixing required as such - and no bias on my part. I’ve merely highlighted the ‘fuller picture’ (Warb himself admitting he’d somehow ‘forgotten’ and ‘failed to include important details’ to those parts which would have gave balance, accuracy and truth to many of his previous one-eyed statements and misleading re-interpretations). It probably just required Warb stop making these (and more) persistently revisionist claims - as well as the continued snide and snarky comments about me (or mod’s decisions) openly on the forums. Followed by repeated PMs asking for info or assistance - before making pops and digs when I didn’t agree with what he wanted to happen, or with what he was saying / requesting etc… followed by more barbs, and seemingly PMs too. Then rinse and repeat.

Re the quote from Warbler above - Warb makes reference in both lines that he believes I think him some sort of ‘terrible person’ and ‘If you weren’t so intent on believing that I am sort sort of terrible lying deceiving scumbag’… As stated before, even before his later edits to his post, I already posted I don’t believe that - let alone the intent to think such a thing - yet for some reason my saying so is ignored. Again, it seems a narrative is being built that doesn’t exist (other than seemingly in Warb’s own mind).

In the absense of any other info or reasons offered other than he had ‘forgotten’ - and also admitted ‘failing to include important details’ in many of his repeated reinterpretations - which near-on all appear to attempt to portray himself as unfairly treated - or me (and the mods) in a negative light… I came to the conclusion Warb was seemingly attempting to deceive people by doing this. Given Warb’s persistent issues and attitudes to / about me stated above… there seems to be no other logical determination to reach.

Now that I’ve ‘corrected’ and ‘brought up relevant info’ to some of Warb’s continued one-eyed revisionist statements… my work here is done - and there seems little point in going around and around with someone who doesn’t know how to fix a problem of his own creation (maybe it’s the ‘memory bias’?) - not that there was ever much fixing required.
 

Warb is 100% right when he says this is all ‘very sad’.

As stated previously - I wish him well for the future.

 

Ps - As someone else has questioned in a PM (and I have no answer for it either)… it seems there was no issue when Zion announced that Moth3r had been made a mod - yet for whatever reason it is a problem when Silverwook did so for me last year. Again, I don’t think it’s really been an issue - other than for anyone who wants to try and continue to make it one.

 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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oojason said:

I’m done with him;

If you are done with me, be done with me and stop talking about me.


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