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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 587

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Hal 9000 said:

However, showing his ghost is the natural capstone on his redemption story. Without it, it leaves the audience to say, “Oh, well. I guess he’s in Jedi hell.”

🤣🤣🤦

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I wish I could have recorded my reactions throughout my first viewing in the theater with my brother. I was like, “Oh, I guess he wasn’t good enough. He’s gotta work his way outta Purgatory.”

That and Palptine gloating about his “Forty-seven thousand star destroyers.” “You’ll never defeat that many star destroyers!”

Kijimi is destroyed. “For God’s sake!”

Finn’s adorable little whimper of “Rey” as he gives up on pursuing her during the DSII duel. Not to mention, “They got Chewie! They— they got ‘im!”

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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I’ve watched v1 of this edit several times now. It’s a massive improvement overall. However, I still feel like things just fall apart at the end. The final act is just a big, confusing mess. Is there nothing more that can be done? I feel like the first act is good, and the second act is actually really strong and engaging, but the third act still has me scratching my head. Wouldn’t it be better if Palpatine’s plan all along was to lure Kylo and Rey to Exegol so he could use the power of their force dyad to regenerate himself?

That way, Rey and Kylo think they have their own motivations, i.e., Rey wants to destroy Palpatine, and Kylo wants to team up with Rey to rule the galaxy (and also destroy Palpatine), but all Palpatine wants is to lure them both there so he can take their power.

It’s also really weak that Palpatine tells Rey he wants her to kill him (so that he can possess her) because saying such a thing would actually de-motivate her to follow through on that plan. I just think the whole “kill me, and ascend the throne” thing is really dumb and could possibly be cut out. Palpatine just isn’t this stupid and ignorant.

As an aside, I also just don’t understand Ben bringing Rey back to life. Healing is one thing, but bringing people back from the dead is a Sith power (or ambition). The Jedi way is to accept death. That’s well established. So wouldn’t it be simpler and better if Ben dies when Palpatine sends him over the cliff and Rey defeats Palpatine without being overwhelmed and dying?

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Perhaps at the scripting stage (or before), but I imagine trying to fundamentally alter things to that degree would be outside this project’s scope. However, I’d welcome anyone to use the ProRes output I’ll make available to pursue more radical edits.

I think Palpatine’s motives are made a little more intuitive than in the theatrical (especially for V2), and Palpatine has a history of saying things to hero characters that make them less likely to do what he wants. I think there’s a difference between necromancy and selflessly (?) giving your own life-energy to heal the body-still-warm recently departed. If anything, it was rude of Rey not to return the favor. Maybe she could have tried if he hadn’t vanished. Good thing she didn’t vanish, though, I guess. I think I remember hearing (or saying) it’d be funny to have Rey vanish juuust as Ben has almost finished hobbling over to her.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Vanishing into the force is a skill you need to learn, let’s say, and Rey obviously wouldn’t know how to do that. That’s another reason why we needed to have Ben show up as a ghost; he disappeared. He knows what to do next.

Save the Sebastian Shaw Ghost! Save the dream…!

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Man, I’d try to make sure that was the first thing I learned.

I guess since Qui-Gon was the first Jedi to discover the ability (and I don’t even know if that’s canon, I’m just taking ROTS at face value) it wouldn’t be in the books Rey stole.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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I really liked V3 of the Force Ghost sequence that jonh did back in May, but I guess the Phantom Four do make sense within the technical terms. Qui-Gon never managed to learn how to appear physically, we can assume Mace Windu didn’t either, Leia’s body hadn’t disappeared yet, and we still don’t know Ahsoka’s fate. Maybe in the future jonh will come back to do a version with Sebastian Shaw as Anakin, but who knows. Fingers crossed.

Can’t wait for V2 of Ascendant to come out real soon. Just re-watching Restructured, Starlight, Legendary, Rekindled and V1 again at the moment.

The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.

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Hal 9000 said:

Those may very well have been the filmmakers’ reasons for not including a ghost of Ben.

However, showing his ghost is the natural capstone on his redemption story. Without it, it leaves the audience to say, “Oh, well. I guess he’s in Jedi hell.”

Also, I feel like the script already seems to address this (as though they originally meant to have his ghost at the end) by having Palpatine refer to Ben as “the last Skywalker,” as KumoNin points out.

I’m losing it.

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

The Rise of Skywalker Expanded Edition by Rae Carson: The Faraday Edit, The Last Jedi: Stoic Edition, Revenge of the Sith: The Faraday Nudge, ROTS Ultracut: Order 66, Godzilla Vs Megalon, The Light Rises, Faraday Junior’s Star Wars

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Hal 9000 said:
If anything, it was rude of Rey not to return the favor. Maybe she could have tried if he hadn’t vanished. Good thing she didn’t vanish, though, I guess.

I think it’s funny that Ben pretty much dies three times in the film.

I’d say it’s probably best if you don’t think about things too much with TRoS, but that’s not a luxury a faneditor has.

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We don’t know for 100% sure that Rey is dead dead when Ben heals her. She could just have fallen unconscious and been really weak and on the edge of death or whatever.

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sade1212 said:

We don’t know for 100% sure that Rey is dead dead when Ben heals her. She could just have fallen unconscious and been really weak and on the edge of death or whatever.

You know what? Looking back at the film’s somewhat vague production history, Disney must have really botched this as much as they could. And that doesn’t just regard the mysterious deleted scenes we’ve yet to see.

Someone needs to produce a feature-length documentary surrounding the production troubles, reshoots and re-edits, and the actors’ honest experiences on Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. That way, we can sleep easy knowing we’ll finally have the true story in our hands and Disney will be held accountable for the final part of the Sequel Trilogy turning out as bad as it did.

Because with all the information we have gathered on the movie so far, I think this is quite a lot to take in. And that usually exhausts me and constitutes as too much info to take in at once, but I am genuinely interested in hearing what really went wrong behind the scenes, and what we can all learn from it. 🤔

But yeah, I am still happy with what Hal is doing for us, the fans. I hope V2 truly lives up to the hype! 😁

“The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.”
-Sheev Palpatine, Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith (2005)

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GLogus said:

It’s also really weak that Palpatine tells Rey he wants her to kill him (so that he can possess her) because saying such a thing would actually de-motivate her to follow through on that plan. I just think the whole “kill me, and ascend the throne” thing is really dumb and could possibly be cut out. Palpatine just isn’t this stupid and ignorant.

As Hal said, v2 makes a couple changes to make his plan a little less jarring. We’ve made it so that Palpatine has always wanted her dead, and originally wanted to possess Kylo once he’s killed Rey, but when he turns back to the light is when Palps changes his plan to possessing Rey.

As for him explicitly saying that to her, I’d imagine it’s because there wasn’t really any other place in the film to show just what his new plan was. I think he’s kinda hinging on Rey’s naivety concerning essence transfer (ie she doesn’t know for sure if she will retain some level of autonomy). He’s trying to give her the impression that only by merging with him will she have enough power to save her friends. He says as much, “We will be one.” Of course, we know that it isn’t merging, that it’s replacement, but she doesn’t.

Tragedy of Vader - A Novelization of The Rise of Skywalker

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GLogus said:

I’ve watched v1 of this edit several times now. It’s a massive improvement overall. However, I still feel like things just fall apart at the end. The final act is just a big, confusing mess. Is there nothing more that can be done? I feel like the first act is good, and the second act is actually really strong and engaging, but the third act still has me scratching my head. Wouldn’t it be better if Palpatine’s plan all along was to lure Kylo and Rey to Exegol so he could use the power of their force dyad to regenerate himself?

That way, Rey and Kylo think they have their own motivations, i.e., Rey wants to destroy Palpatine, and Kylo wants to team up with Rey to rule the galaxy (and also destroy Palpatine), but all Palpatine wants is to lure them both there so he can take their power.

It’s also really weak that Palpatine tells Rey he wants her to kill him (so that he can possess her) because saying such a thing would actually de-motivate her to follow through on that plan. I just think the whole “kill me, and ascend the throne” thing is really dumb and could possibly be cut out. Palpatine just isn’t this stupid and ignorant.

As an aside, I also just don’t understand Ben bringing Rey back to life. Healing is one thing, but bringing people back from the dead is a Sith power (or ambition). The Jedi way is to accept death. That’s well established. So wouldn’t it be simpler and better if Ben dies when Palpatine sends him over the cliff and Rey defeats Palpatine without being overwhelmed and dying?

It’s a drastic idea that’s already been rejected for this project, but if you’re interested, here’s how I might change Palpatine’s plan if I were to do a different edit.

sherlockpotter said:

https://streamable.com/35xfqw

There we go, I’ve figured out the Captain Hux conundrum.

It’s getting there, but do you think it might need to be pitched up a bit? It’s still too deep imo.

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Neerb said:

Okay, okay… I’m spitballing here, it might sound crazy… but what if we’re approaching this backwards? What if the most straightforward way to sell Palpatine’s plan is to actually take him at his word at the end, and instead remove all traces of him wanting Rey dead?

Opening on Exogol: Palpatine offers the fleet “if you do as I ask.” Kylo, after a moment considering it, silently lowers his saber in agreement. Palpatine smiles menacingly to end the scene: a deal has been struck, but we the audience don’t know what. We can still guess, however, that it could be Rey-related, because Hal’s edit transitions right into Rey meditating.

Board room meeting now has a new context to it. When an officer asks Kylo what the Emperor wants, Kylo silences him immediately. We the audience don’t know what Kylo and the Emperor’s deal was, so we don’t know that Kylo’s outburst is unreasonable; on the contrary, we’re now more intrigued that Kylo is keeping this so secretive.

When Palpatine chastises Kylo after Pasaana, remove references to killing Rey. Full remaining dialog:
“Perhaps you have betrayed me. Do not make me turn my fleet against you.”
“I know where she’s going. She will never be a Jedi.”
“Make sure of it.”
We now know for certain, though we already suspected, that Kylo’s agreement involves Rey somehow. The threat, however, is still vague.

From here out, Kylo mentions twice aboard his ship on Kijimi that Palpatine tried to kill Rey as a kid, reveals that she’s a Palpatine, and suggests that they should team up instead. We think we get it now: not only is this the big reveal that Rey is a Palpatine, but it’s the big reveal of Kylo’s mission to kill her and finish the job.

After Endor, Palpatine says that Leia has ruined his plans. We assume this is because Kylo couldn’t kill her. But we’re still assuming wrong.

Finally, on Exegol, in a genuine third act twist, we learn the truth from Palpatine himself, unedited: he never wanted her dead, he wanted her here with him. The audience can now infer that bringing Rey to Exogol was Kylo’s true mission all along, and Kylo had lied to Rey about Palpatine trying to kill her as part of his attempt to manipulate her to his own ends, planning to betray Palpatine from the beginning. Even the times it seemed Kylo was genuinely trying to kill Rey, he was spiting the Emperor rather than serving him. And since Kylo must have actually known Palpatine’s true goal all along, as Ben he is now rushing back to Exogol because he knows Rey is playing into Palpatine’s hands.

Thoughts?

Oh… my… Gosling! Hal, get on this immediately! 😄

“The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.”
-Sheev Palpatine, Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith (2005)

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CamSMurph said:

Neerb said:

Okay, okay… I’m spitballing here, it might sound crazy… but what if we’re approaching this backwards? What if the most straightforward way to sell Palpatine’s plan is to actually take him at his word at the end, and instead remove all traces of him wanting Rey dead?

Opening on Exogol: Palpatine offers the fleet “if you do as I ask.” Kylo, after a moment considering it, silently lowers his saber in agreement. Palpatine smiles menacingly to end the scene: a deal has been struck, but we the audience don’t know what. We can still guess, however, that it could be Rey-related, because Hal’s edit transitions right into Rey meditating.

Board room meeting now has a new context to it. When an officer asks Kylo what the Emperor wants, Kylo silences him immediately. We the audience don’t know what Kylo and the Emperor’s deal was, so we don’t know that Kylo’s outburst is unreasonable; on the contrary, we’re now more intrigued that Kylo is keeping this so secretive.

When Palpatine chastises Kylo after Pasaana, remove references to killing Rey. Full remaining dialog:
“Perhaps you have betrayed me. Do not make me turn my fleet against you.”
“I know where she’s going. She will never be a Jedi.”
“Make sure of it.”
We now know for certain, though we already suspected, that Kylo’s agreement involves Rey somehow. The threat, however, is still vague.

From here out, Kylo mentions twice aboard his ship on Kijimi that Palpatine tried to kill Rey as a kid, reveals that she’s a Palpatine, and suggests that they should team up instead. We think we get it now: not only is this the big reveal that Rey is a Palpatine, but it’s the big reveal of Kylo’s mission to kill her and finish the job.

After Endor, Palpatine says that Leia has ruined his plans. We assume this is because Kylo couldn’t kill her. But we’re still assuming wrong.

Finally, on Exegol, in a genuine third act twist, we learn the truth from Palpatine himself, unedited: he never wanted her dead, he wanted her here with him. The audience can now infer that bringing Rey to Exogol was Kylo’s true mission all along, and Kylo had lied to Rey about Palpatine trying to kill her as part of his attempt to manipulate her to his own ends, planning to betray Palpatine from the beginning. Even the times it seemed Kylo was genuinely trying to kill Rey, he was spiting the Emperor rather than serving him. And since Kylo must have actually known Palpatine’s true goal all along, as Ben he is now rushing back to Exogol because he knows Rey is playing into Palpatine’s hands.

Thoughts?

Oh… my… Gosling! Hal, get on this immediately! 😄

Ha, I’m glad you like it, but if you scroll down on that post you’ll see we already decided against it, mostly for easier continuity with the previous movies (and EU material) where Snoke (Palpatine’s puppet) wants Rey dead and was training Kylo as Palps’ heir. I just brought it up again for GLogus since they mentioned not liking Palp’s plan, in case they end up doing something of their own.

I think the work that’s been done so far for v2 might be about as good as we’re going to get for Palpatine’s plan. At the end of the day it’s just not very well thought out or explained in the script, and TROS doesn’t offer a lot of editing wiggle room during the final battle exposition to turn it into something else.

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GLogus said:

Hal 9000 said:
If anything, it was rude of Rey not to return the favor. Maybe she could have tried if he hadn’t vanished. Good thing she didn’t vanish, though, I guess.

I think it’s funny that Ben pretty much dies three times in the film.

I’d say it’s probably best if you don’t think about things too much with TRoS, but that’s not a luxury a faneditor has.

Due to multiple deaths & re-boots his Force OS is corrupted and he can’t install or run FORCEGHOST.EXE.
Fanedit issue solved.
NEXT!

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I think the problem with Palpatine in TRoS, fundamentally, (aside from the fact that they never should have brought him back) is that he comes across as fickle and ignorant. In the prequels—where we really get to know him best—we learn that he’s very willing to play the long game and wait things out. We also learn that he is a master manipulator, making people do exactly what he wants without them knowing it.

I’m okay with Palpatine ordering Kylo to kill Rey IF he thinks that it will only manipulate Kylo to do the opposite and try to team up with Rey to defeat him. That is, I think it works really well if we understand it as Palpatine intentionally manipulating Kylo to betray him. It works if he is also using Kylo to indirectly manipulate Rey to seek out Palpatine to destroy him, i.e., for killing her parents. Also learning that she is a Palpatine causes her to doubt herself and think she is fated to join the dark side, etc.

But all these clever manipulations only work IF Palpatine’s overarching goal, from start to finish, is to lure Kylo and Rey to him so he can exploit their Force Dyad to regenerate himself. But instead, Palpatine outs himself as a complete moron by A) Seeming quite ignorant of their Force Dyad, B) trying to coerce Rey into killing him, WHICH SHE’S ALREADY THERE TO DO, making her LESS LIKELY to want to do it (it’s like he’s using reverse psychology, but in a way that disadvantages himself), and C) flip-flopping on what he actually wants to do. This is not the Palpatine we know and love to hate!

Perhaps this is outside the scope of Ascendent, and I respect that. But as it stands, the third act is still really convoluted and Palpatine is acting radically out of step with what we know of him from prior films. And I feel like it’s fixable by having his underlying motive be to exploit the power of their Force Dyad all along. Perhaps another project will take a shot at it, as I think there is a definite opportunity for improvement in the third act.

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GLogus said:

And I feel like it’s fixable by having his underlying motive be to exploit the power of their Force Dyad all along.

What somehow makes more sense and is also even more of a head scratcher is the fact that that kinda was the idea during the writing (editing?) stage…

JEDIT:
Also, I understand that it is settled and binned 😄, but just in case I was not clear in my force ghost post, this was my ultimate suggestion:

what are people’s thoughts on having JUST BEN as a force ghost for that shot, replacing Mark and Carrie entirely

Also, can I just say how much I appreciate Hal providing the community with just about the maximum possible amount of the ‘fanedit resources’ he used for his edit, all in an accessible place for other editors to utilize? Just helps highlight the collaboration of it.

reylo?

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Okay so let me make sure I understand the practical things that would need to be changed in order to realize this idea.

Opening scene on Exegol, cut Palpatine’s specific request. Maybe just go from “It will be yours if you do as I ask.” To “End the Jedi, and become what your grandfather could not… but beware, she is not who you think she is (meaning the Jedi).” I think the opening scene would need to mention Rey in specific or else have a good way to end on a compelling note that doesn’t feel abrupt. (Not sure “…if you do as I ask… you will be the new emperor” and then Kylo lowering his saber would cut it.)

I do like this idea and feel it’d have been much preferable to the theatrical, but I think to realistically get at it we’d have to essentially let the theatrical alone. In other words I don’t think it’d work to imply Kylo has mysterious orders from Palpatine.

If the key ingredient of the idea is Palpatine knowingly trying to drain the dyad, I don’t think the footage is there to establish what’s happening, as he holds his hands up in surprise to exposit what’s happening.

Again, I do like this idea and wish it could be fully realized without seams. But by this point my TFA edit is a diet version of Nev’s Starlight, and my TLJ edit is a diet version of poppasketti’s Rekindled, so I wonder what this edit will end up a diet version of??

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Instead of “KILL THR GIRL!” at the beginning, can it just somehow be changed to “Bring me the girl!”

Rey still thinks Palpatine wants to kill her throughout the film.

Kylo thinks Palpatine just wants Rey, however he wants to go there together to defeat Palpatine. Palpatine wants them both for their dyad. Kylo is afraid Palps will kill her which is why he only wants her going with him; which is what Palp’s goal is.

Line Changes:


Kylo Ren: What could you give me?

Emperor Palpatine: Everything. A new empire. The might of the Final Order will soon be ready. It will be yours if you do as I ask. Bring me the girl, end the Jedi and become what your grandfather Vader could not. You will rule all the galaxy as the new emperor. But beware. She is not who you think she is.


Emperor Palpatine: The Jedi apprentice still lives. Perhaps you have betrayed me. Do not make me turn my fleet against you.

Kylo Ren: I know where she’s going.

Emperor Palpatine: Make sure of it. Kill her.


Emperor Palpatine: The Princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plan, but her foolish act will be in vain. Come to me on Exegol, General Pryde.

General Pryde: As I served you in the old wars, I serve you now.

Emperor Palpatine: The Final Order begins. She will come; her friends will follow.

General Pryde: Yes, my Lord.


Emperor Palpatine: Your coming together is your undoing. The lifeforce of your bond… a power like life itself. Unseen for generations. And now… the power of two restores the one, true Emperor.

The Skywalker Saga:
I / II / III / IV / V / VI / VII / VIII / IX
This is the way.