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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 111

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What is this Ewok niple clamp thing?

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DominicCobb said:

Gaffer Tape said:

TV’s Frink said:

I honestly don’t remember. It’s amazing it’s gone on this long.

If memory serves, the debate was about whether Luke was in character, yadda, yadda, yadda. Someone gave a list of dark or dark-ish behaviors Luke perpetrated in ROTJ: cutting off Vader’s hand, putting nipple clamps on an Ewok, force choking people, etc. Warb expressed confusion at the force choking thing, and here we are!

At least the Ewok nipple clamp was pretty unambiguous, no room for debate there.

With this crowd, I highly doubt that.

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

Mocata said:

DrDre said:
Either way none of the films suggested balance of the Force implies dark and light balancing each other, and dark rising to balance light or vicd versa. In any case this interpretation has been debunked by Lucas himself.

To be fair this is inconsistent in the prequels like everything else. Lucas is hardly creating a fully developed canon ahead of time for later film makers to reference. In TPM they say the Sith were extinct, and the boy could just be “the one”. Then in (I think ROTS) this changes suddenly when Obi-wan says Anakin was destined to create balance by “destroying the Sith”. Who were extinct.

I agree, and I never really liked the Chosen One/balance angle, since it was little more than a plot device, and pretty underdeveloped.

I was actually fine with Rey’s depiction in TFA, and accepted that she was able to figure some things out for herself. She initially failed in using the Jedi mind trick, and Kylo Ren was seriously injured, and I expected her to be trained by Luke in TLJ, but in the end all she got from Luke were a couple of incomplete lessons, and some books, and despite this her Force powers continued to grow to the extend, that she beat Luke in a duel, saved Kylo in their battle with Snoke’s guards, and moved a ton of rocks with ease. That’s where I checked out.

  1. She did not beat Luke in that duel

So, Luke wasn’t put on his back with Rey grabbing and pointing a lightsaber at him? I think she had the high ground, a sure win in the Star Wars universe since 2005. :p

They were in a stick duel, which Luke won because he knocked hers out of her hand. Taking out the lightsaber was cheating, of course he fell back because all he had was a stick, I don’t see how that could be construed as her winning.

Winning a battle is not about playing fair. That’s called sport. If Rey had the intention of killing Luke, he would be a Force ghost. Therefore, she won the fight. She cheated, and she, a complete novice, beat a Jedi Master.

Respectfully, that’s completely ridiculous. You can’t say “if she had the intention,” because she didn’t and Luke knew that. If she did, things would have gone differently. Even without a lightsaber Luke could have easily bested her with the force. Literally all that happened was she caught him off guard with the saber. Equating that to "she beat a Jedi master is absolutely absurd. You’re just forcing this scene to fit your argument. That’s clearly not what happened.

It’s not ridiculous. It’s about the message the scene sends to the viewer. Here we have Rey towering over Luke holding a lightsaber, forcing him to tell the truth, which he eventually does. Luke looks old, worn, and pathetic, while Rey stands over, and lectures him. If Luke could have easily bested Rey, why did he end up on his back, spilling his guts?

  1. She didn’t “save” Ren, she just helped him

She helped him, such that the guard wouldn’t kill Ren, ergo it makes sense to conclude she saved him.

She just gave him the saber, he saved himself. This just shows them working as a team - using this to suggest she is more powerful than him is pretty silly.

There’s nothing in that scene, that suggests she is less powerful than Kylo. Unlike Kylo, she’s able to not get herself into a jam while fighting the guards, suggestung she’s actually more competent. It is not Rey who needs help, which would have been appropriate, since she’s far less experienced, but it’s Kylo. Had she not helped Kylo, he would be in serious trouble.

You’re forcing, again. Think how common a trope it is where the main hero is about to die and someone shoots the guy about to shoot them last minute. Does that make that person who got the shot first more powerful? No. Obviously this is a bad comparison, but only because the better comparison would be a scene where the other person throws the hero a gun and then they get the shot.

Not to mention that she’s just repaying the favor, considering Kylo did essentially the same thing (though very differently) by killing Snoke.

And also, I never said Kylo is more powerful. In fact, the film outright says they are equals. Now I understand you think that’s bullshit because Rey wasn’t trained as much, but I don’t really think that even factors into this scene.

I might agree with this.

  1. We didn’t actually see her lift the rocks, so we don’t know how “easy” it was

They didn’t show any strain on her face, like for example with Yoda in AOTC, or Luke in TESB. Therefore it makes sense to assume it was easier for her than either of those characters. Also, Luke wasn’t able to perform such an act after being trained by Yoda, straining to keep a few rocks afloat during the training sequence.

Yoda makes it clear that Luke could lift the x-wing if he had the right mindset. This isn’t like training to lift weights or being at a high level in a video game to do a certain power. It’s a matter of tapping properly into your potential.

I have problems with this scene myself but I don’t see anything wrong with the simple fact of her having the ability to lift rocks.

Considering that she’s been able to do all this Jedi stuff with zero effort, this lifting rocks thing is just the cherry on the cake for me. It contrasts strongly with the Luke lifting the X-wing scene, with the film seemingly suggesting Rey’s just better than Luke at everything, despite not recieving any training, or studying the Force herself. She just magically has these powers. That makes her a bland character for me. It’s not enough for her to be talented like Luke, the next new hope, she needs to be Luke on steroids.

I don’t think the film suggests she’s better than Luke at all. I mean yes, technically if you compare them she is, but the film doesn’t make a big deal of it, she just is and I don’t really understand what’s wrong with that (I guess it’s that old EU thing of “Luke is the most powerful force user ever”?). Yes she has these powers magically. Because the force is magic. No it doesn’t follow the exact arc of physical training that Luke received. But that doesn’t make her a bland character at all. Are superheroes bland characters because they get their powers in an instant? No, of course not (and that’s not saying that Rey becomes a superhero in an instant). The depth that her character has does not come from her physical journey. It comes from her internal, emotional journey.

Hate to say it, but this is an instance of people being mad that Rey isn’t exactly like Luke.

It’s not that she’s exactly like Luke, or that she can’t be more talented. It’s that her progression contradicts everything that’s been established about the Force and how you can learn to use it. The only emotional journey Rey get’s in this film is the discovery of her parentage. Otherwise she’s not really emotionally or physically challenged. I said this before, but just compare the scene of Rey coming to the rescue of the Resistance at the end of TLJ, lifting the rocks, with Luke hanging below Cloud City, pleading to be rescued by his friends. The difference is astounding, and is the most clear visual evidence of Luke’s emotional journey and physical ordeal versus Rey’s lack of both.

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 (Edited)

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

Rey won a lightsaber fight without any training at all. This indicates that she is special and incredibly strong in the force and it begs for an explanation.

When was this lightsabre fight?

In TFA.

You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…

Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…

Um, she did win the fight. The only reason he survived or wasn’t taken prisoner is because of the planet coming apart.

No, he’s just on his arse. There was no winner due to the planet coming apart.

Go watch the fight again. He was on ass before the planet came apart. He was on the ground helpless for 15 seconds before the planet came apart and they were separated. She won the fight.

Look this and tell me she didn’t win the fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI&feature=youtu.be&t=4m18s

How about you go watch all of the fight again? And post in on here (don’t worry - I have below).

Just because - as I stated before - he is on his arse and scarred in the final few blows of the fight - doesn’t mean she won the fight.

The planet came apart before there was any ‘winner’.

Selecting certain scenes from an overall event to highlight an opinion does not make it fact. I find it baffling that you think it does.

Try watching the whole fight, here you go - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI - and put it into context of my previous posts. Rey is on the back foot and losing the fight - on the edge of a ‘cliff’ before she let’s the force in… and even then the planet breaks apart before there any winner…

 

She may well be special and strong with the force - Snoke’s on-screen ascertain to Rey that… ‘So much strength. Darkness rises and light to meet it’ & ‘I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger that the equal in the light would rise’ (and his mistaken assumption that was Luke - not Rey) is a statement of this. That you choose to ignore this as an explanation is on you.

As I said, I buy that explanation because this thing of the equal of the light rising wasn’t shown or referred to in any of the other movies.

Things evolve and change over the course of these films - that they aren’t mentioned or shown previously does not negate them. That it is mentioned on-screen - whether you agree, dislike, or ‘buy’ it - does not negate it.

Either it is a thing that exists or it doesn’t. If it exists what are the odds something like wouldn’t be mentioned at all?
It didn’t happen the PT, It didn’t happen between Luke and Vader. It is not mentioned at all in any previous film. That is the problem when you decide to invent something new, you have to account for its absence in the prior films. I don’t the evolve and change stuff. Either this is something the force does or it doesn’t.

If you want to ignore an explanation then go ahead and ignore it - but don’t then state there wasn’t one / or that it then ‘begs for an explanation’.

Maybe I should have said “begs for a better explanation”.

It exists in this film - as stated above. You can go back and select whatever criteria you wish - it does not make it that it did not happen in this film. I don’t have to account for it not appearing for it’s absence in previous films at all - as that is not what the context of the situation is about.

Though if so, I could point out that the balance of the force - and it’s interpretation - is indeed mentioned in the PT, yes?

Nice one, thanks.

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oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

Rey won a lightsaber fight without any training at all. This indicates that she is special and incredibly strong in the force and it begs for an explanation.

When was this lightsabre fight?

In TFA.

You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…

Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…

Um, she did win the fight. The only reason he survived or wasn’t taken prisoner is because of the planet coming apart.

No, he’s just on his arse. There was no winner due to the planet coming apart.

Go watch the fight again. He was on ass before the planet came apart. He was on the ground helpless for 15 seconds before the planet came apart and they were separated. She won the fight.

Look this and tell me she didn’t win the fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI&feature=youtu.be&t=4m18s

How about you go watch all of the fight again? And post in on here (don’t worry - I have below).

Just because - as I stated before - he is on his arse and scarred in the final few blows of the fight - doesn’t mean she won the fight.

The planet came apart before there was any ‘winner’.

Selecting certain scenes from an overall event to highlight an opinion does not make it fact. I find it baffling that you think it does.

Try watching the whole fight, here you go - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI - and put it into context of my previous posts. Rey is on the back foot and losing the fight - on the edge of a ‘cliff’ before she let’s the force in… and even then the planet breaks apart before there any winner…

I don’t buy this. Did Luke not win the fight against Vader in ROTJ? Vader was wounded, disarmed, and on his arse like Kylo. Once Rey found her composure, and used the Force she got the better of Kylo pretty quickly. In fact Kylo doesn’t put up much if a fight at all, swinging wildly. Rey stabs him in his arm, destroys his laser sword, cuts his face, and puts him on his arse, much like Luke did to Vader in ROTJ. If the earthquake had not separated them, she could have sliced him in half. I would call that winning the fight.

 

She may well be special and strong with the force - Snoke’s on-screen ascertain to Rey that… ‘So much strength. Darkness rises and light to meet it’ & ‘I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger that the equal in the light would rise’ (and his mistaken assumption that was Luke - not Rey) is a statement of this. That you choose to ignore this as an explanation is on you.

As I said, I buy that explanation because this thing of the equal of the light rising wasn’t shown or referred to in any of the other movies.

Things evolve and change over the course of these films - that they aren’t mentioned or shown previously does not negate them. That it is mentioned on-screen - whether you agree, dislike, or ‘buy’ it - does not negate it.

Either it is a thing that exists or it doesn’t. If it exists what are the odds something like wouldn’t be mentioned at all?
It didn’t happen the PT, It didn’t happen between Luke and Vader. It is not mentioned at all in any previous film. That is the problem when you decide to invent something new, you have to account for its absence in the prior films. I don’t the evolve and change stuff. Either this is something the force does or it doesn’t.

If you want to ignore an explanation then go ahead and ignore it - but don’t then state there wasn’t one / or that it then ‘begs for an explanation’.

Maybe I should have said “begs for a better explanation”.

It exists in this film - as stated above. You can go back and select whatever criteria you wish - it does not make it that it did not happen in this film. I don’t have to account for it not appearing for it’s absence in previous films at all - as that is not what the context of the situation is about.

Though if so, I could point out that the balance of the force - and it’s interpretation - is indeed mentioned in the PT, yes?

Nice one, thanks.

Yes, and that interpretation is, that balance to the Force is equated to destroying the Sith, as stated in ROTS by Obi-Wan, and since confirmed by Lucas in interviews after ROTS was released.

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All this focus on “winning,” you guys sound like Trump.

SORRY JAY!!! 😉

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TV’s Frink said:

All this focus on “winning,” you guys sound like Trump.

SORRY JAY!!! 😉

To quote Sean Connery in The Rock:

“Your best? Losers allways talk about their best. Winners go home and f*** the prom queen!”

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DrDre said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

Rey won a lightsaber fight without any training at all. This indicates that she is special and incredibly strong in the force and it begs for an explanation.

When was this lightsabre fight?

In TFA.

You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…

Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…

Um, she did win the fight. The only reason he survived or wasn’t taken prisoner is because of the planet coming apart.

No, he’s just on his arse. There was no winner due to the planet coming apart.

Go watch the fight again. He was on ass before the planet came apart. He was on the ground helpless for 15 seconds before the planet came apart and they were separated. She won the fight.

Look this and tell me she didn’t win the fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI&feature=youtu.be&t=4m18s

How about you go watch all of the fight again? And post in on here (don’t worry - I have below).

Just because - as I stated before - he is on his arse and scarred in the final few blows of the fight - doesn’t mean she won the fight.

The planet came apart before there was any ‘winner’.

Selecting certain scenes from an overall event to highlight an opinion does not make it fact. I find it baffling that you think it does.

Try watching the whole fight, here you go - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI - and put it into context of my previous posts. Rey is on the back foot and losing the fight - on the edge of a ‘cliff’ before she let’s the force in… and even then the planet breaks apart before there any winner…

I don’t buy this. Did Luke not win the fight against Vader in ROTJ? Vader was wounded, disarmed, and on his arse like Kylo. Once Rey found her composure, and used the Force she got the better of Kylo pretty quickly. If the earthquake had not separated them, she could have sliced him in half. I would call that winning the fight.

Again, don’t take my previous comments out of context - or give conjecture to them (‘could’) - in that…

'You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…

Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…’

For all we know Kylo could have lost his cool - in doing so ignoring Snoke’s instructions to bring her to him and sliced her in half… see conjecture…
 

Again, circular arguments selectively cherrypicked to try - and fail - to prove your point does you - nor you view any favours.

 

She may well be special and strong with the force - Snoke’s on-screen ascertain to Rey that… ‘So much strength. Darkness rises and light to meet it’ & ‘I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger that the equal in the light would rise’ (and his mistaken assumption that was Luke - not Rey) is a statement of this. That you choose to ignore this as an explanation is on you.

As I said, I buy that explanation because this thing of the equal of the light rising wasn’t shown or referred to in any of the other movies.

Things evolve and change over the course of these films - that they aren’t mentioned or shown previously does not negate them. That it is mentioned on-screen - whether you agree, dislike, or ‘buy’ it - does not negate it.

Either it is a thing that exists or it doesn’t. If it exists what are the odds something like wouldn’t be mentioned at all?
It didn’t happen the PT, It didn’t happen between Luke and Vader. It is not mentioned at all in any previous film. That is the problem when you decide to invent something new, you have to account for its absence in the prior films. I don’t the evolve and change stuff. Either this is something the force does or it doesn’t.

If you want to ignore an explanation then go ahead and ignore it - but don’t then state there wasn’t one / or that it then ‘begs for an explanation’.

Maybe I should have said “begs for a better explanation”.

It exists in this film - as stated above. You can go back and select whatever criteria you wish - it does not make it that it did not happen in this film. I don’t have to account for it not appearing for it’s absence in previous films at all - as that is not what the context of the situation is about.

Though if so, I could point out that the balance of the force - and it’s interpretation - is indeed mentioned in the PT, yes?

Nice one, thanks.

Yes, and that interpretation is, that balance to the Force is equated to destroying the Sith, as stated in ROTS by Obi-Wan, and since confirmed by Lucas in interviews after ROTS was released.

No, It is also mentioned by Mace Windu too, amongst others. Yes? Without equating the balance in destroying the Sith? Thank you for the reminder in proving my point.

George can say what he wants in interviews after the fact - he is hardly a paragon of consistency, or fact/truth is he?

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 (Edited)

Lucas lost all credibility when he buried the OOT and made the the prequels.

I don’t find prequel arguments in any way convincing. They don’t even make sense along side the OT and there’s not even the excuse that they were made by someone else.

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Warbler said:

nope.

I don’t know I went back and looked at it and I don’t think you were.

😋

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oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

Rey won a lightsaber fight without any training at all. This indicates that she is special and incredibly strong in the force and it begs for an explanation.

When was this lightsabre fight?

In TFA.

You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…

Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…

Um, she did win the fight. The only reason he survived or wasn’t taken prisoner is because of the planet coming apart.

No, he’s just on his arse. There was no winner due to the planet coming apart.

Go watch the fight again. He was on ass before the planet came apart. He was on the ground helpless for 15 seconds before the planet came apart and they were separated. She won the fight.

Look this and tell me she didn’t win the fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI&feature=youtu.be&t=4m18s

How about you go watch all of the fight again? And post in on here (don’t worry - I have below).

I did watch all of it and posted the ending above.

Just because - as I stated before - he is on his arse and scarred in the final few blows of the fight - doesn’t mean she won the fight.

He was on the ground helpless. Him scarred, her not. She still had her Saber, he didn’t. I don’t know how you can look at that ending and tell me that she didn’t win the fight.

The planet came apart before there was any ‘winner’.

You are flat out wrong.

Selecting certain scenes from an overall event to highlight an opinion does not make it fact. I find it baffling that you think it does.

I find it baffling that you don’t think the end of a lightsaber fight determines who wins. I find it baffling that you can look at that ending and not think Rey won.

Try watching the whole fight, here you go - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI - and put it into context of my previous posts. Rey is on the back foot and losing the fight - on the edge of a ‘cliff’ before she let’s the force in… and even then the planet breaks apart before there any winner…

As I said above, I already watched it. All of it

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Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

Rey won a lightsaber fight without any training at all. This indicates that she is special and incredibly strong in the force and it begs for an explanation.

When was this lightsabre fight?

In TFA.

You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…

Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…

Um, she did win the fight. The only reason he survived or wasn’t taken prisoner is because of the planet coming apart.

No, he’s just on his arse. There was no winner due to the planet coming apart.

Go watch the fight again. He was on ass before the planet came apart. He was on the ground helpless for 15 seconds before the planet came apart and they were separated. She won the fight.

Look this and tell me she didn’t win the fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI&feature=youtu.be&t=4m18s

How about you go watch all of the fight again? And post in on here (don’t worry - I have below).

I did watch all of it and posted the ending above.

Just because - as I stated before - he is on his arse and scarred in the final few blows of the fight - doesn’t mean she won the fight.

He was on the ground helpless. Him scarred, her not. She still had her Saber, he didn’t. I don’t know how you can look at that ending and tell me that she didn’t win the fight.

Just because he is scarred - doesn’t mean she won the fight - again see my previous posts.

The planet came apart before there was any ‘winner’.

You are flat out wrong.

The planet didn’t come apart before there was any winner? Right…

Selecting certain scenes from an overall event to highlight an opinion does not make it fact. I find it baffling that you think it does.

I find it baffling that you don’t think the end of a lightsaber fight determines who wins. I find it baffling that you can look at that ending and not think Rey won.

Once again, the planet coming apart ended the fight, no?

Try watching the whole fight, here you go - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI - and put it into context of my previous posts. Rey is on the back foot and losing the fight - on the edge of a ‘cliff’ before she let’s the force in… and even then the planet breaks apart before there any winner…

As I said above, I already watched it. All of it

And in the context of my previous posts? No, I didn’t think so - no worries.

Mate, that you repeatedly ignore what is being posted in reply to you just re-affirms my thinking that you are selectively cherrypicking parts of responses that you don’t agree with or wish to engage with.

That’s cool. I’ll leave it there, by all means feel free to repeat yourself yet again.

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 (Edited)

oojason said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

Rey won a lightsaber fight without any training at all. This indicates that she is special and incredibly strong in the force and it begs for an explanation.

When was this lightsabre fight?

In TFA.

You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…

Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…

Um, she did win the fight. The only reason he survived or wasn’t taken prisoner is because of the planet coming apart.

No, he’s just on his arse. There was no winner due to the planet coming apart.

Go watch the fight again. He was on ass before the planet came apart. He was on the ground helpless for 15 seconds before the planet came apart and they were separated. She won the fight.

Look this and tell me she didn’t win the fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI&feature=youtu.be&t=4m18s

How about you go watch all of the fight again? And post in on here (don’t worry - I have below).

Just because - as I stated before - he is on his arse and scarred in the final few blows of the fight - doesn’t mean she won the fight.

The planet came apart before there was any ‘winner’.

Selecting certain scenes from an overall event to highlight an opinion does not make it fact. I find it baffling that you think it does.

Try watching the whole fight, here you go - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI - and put it into context of my previous posts. Rey is on the back foot and losing the fight - on the edge of a ‘cliff’ before she let’s the force in… and even then the planet breaks apart before there any winner…

I don’t buy this. Did Luke not win the fight against Vader in ROTJ? Vader was wounded, disarmed, and on his arse like Kylo. Once Rey found her composure, and used the Force she got the better of Kylo pretty quickly. If the earthquake had not separated them, she could have sliced him in half. I would call that winning the fight.

Again, don’t take my previous comments out of context - or give conjecture to them (‘could’) - in that…

'You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…

Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…’

For all we know Kylo could have lost his cool - in doing so ignoring Snoke’s instructions to bring her to him and sliced her in half… see conjecture…
 

Again, circular arguments selectively cherrypicked to try - and fail - to prove your point does you - nor you view any favours.

Sorry this makes no sense to me. You’re willfully ignoring what happens in the film. Kylo isn’t even able to properly defend himself, which is why he lands in his arse wounded and beaten. Vader did not want to kill Luke. He wanted to turn Luke. Conjecture: Vader loses his cool, ignores his master’s wishes, and slices Luke in half. Ergo, Vader didn’t lose the fight. Doesn’t sound very convincing, does it?

Snoke in TLJ:

“You got beaten by the girl? A novice?!!”

I will repeat that phrase: BEATEN. Kylo Ren got beaten in TFA. That’s the official ST canon.

 

She may well be special and strong with the force - Snoke’s on-screen ascertain to Rey that… ‘So much strength. Darkness rises and light to meet it’ & ‘I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger that the equal in the light would rise’ (and his mistaken assumption that was Luke - not Rey) is a statement of this. That you choose to ignore this as an explanation is on you.

As I said, I buy that explanation because this thing of the equal of the light rising wasn’t shown or referred to in any of the other movies.

Things evolve and change over the course of these films - that they aren’t mentioned or shown previously does not negate them. That it is mentioned on-screen - whether you agree, dislike, or ‘buy’ it - does not negate it.

Either it is a thing that exists or it doesn’t. If it exists what are the odds something like wouldn’t be mentioned at all?
It didn’t happen the PT, It didn’t happen between Luke and Vader. It is not mentioned at all in any previous film. That is the problem when you decide to invent something new, you have to account for its absence in the prior films. I don’t the evolve and change stuff. Either this is something the force does or it doesn’t.

If you want to ignore an explanation then go ahead and ignore it - but don’t then state there wasn’t one / or that it then ‘begs for an explanation’.

Maybe I should have said “begs for a better explanation”.

It exists in this film - as stated above. You can go back and select whatever criteria you wish - it does not make it that it did not happen in this film. I don’t have to account for it not appearing for it’s absence in previous films at all - as that is not what the context of the situation is about.

Though if so, I could point out that the balance of the force - and it’s interpretation - is indeed mentioned in the PT, yes?

Nice one, thanks.

Yes, and that interpretation is, that balance to the Force is equated to destroying the Sith, as stated in ROTS by Obi-Wan, and since confirmed by Lucas in interviews after ROTS was released.

No, It is also mentioned by Mace Windu too, amongst others. Yes? Without equating the balance in destroying the Sith? Thank you for the reminder in proving my point.

George can say what he wants in interviews after the fact - he is hardly a paragon of consistency, or fact/truth is he?

Yes, the balance is mentioned without any explanation. The only explanation given in the films is the one given by Obi-Wan, hence it is the only correct interpretation. Anything else is fan fiction, or head canon. Luke’s parentage was only confirmed by Yoda in ROTJ. Should we thus ignore this fact, because it doesn’t fit a fan’s narrative? I’m sure Lucas has mentioned Vader being Luke’s father too in interviews, but…

George can say what he wants in interviews after the fact - he is hardly a paragon of consistency, or fact/truth is he?

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DrDre said:
It’s not ridiculous. It’s about the message the scene sends to the viewer. Here we have Rey towering over Luke holding a lightsaber, forcing him to tell the truth, which he eventually does. Luke looks old, worn, and pathetic, while Rey stands over, and lectures him. If Luke could have easily bested Rey, why did he end up on his back, spilling his guts?

You know there was a time when young people learned from their elders, whether we are talking about Jedi in a movie or boxers or people learning on the job at work. The new generation comes in, they are physically healthier and in their prime, they have more stamina, and they have ambition, ready to seize their opportunity and make something of their life. What they don’t have is wisdom or skill. They train, they work hard, and when they no longer need teaching, they have everything they need to accede and take their place in the primary role.

This narrative has happened billions of times in the real world. And it has been mimicked thousands upon thousands of times over the years in films.

Whatever happened to those days?

Since when is it en vogue for an upstart to start off with skill they need? Talent is fine…but unearned skill? And to lecture their elders as if they have been there before, haha!

I suspect what really happened with the Disney movies is one, they have too many cooks in the kitchen and too many products to sell in the movies. Developing characters takes hard work and time on screen. If you’re out of time because the movie is filled with so much BS from the toy department, well I guess you just cut time by giving the hero everything they need from Day 1. Another issue is the team working on these movies is not working together under a single vision and story. They gave control on the TFA to an episodic TV writer. Then the next movie was written by an entirely new person with (obviously) and entirely different vision. It’s really hard or impossible to have meaningful character development this way.

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Disney Ruined Star Wars said:

oojason said:

Get over yourself.

Anyway…

See Rule 2 - ‘Don’t attack other members personally. When debating, argue the point, not the person’ - as ray_afraid said previously, it is a personal attack on those who do enjoy them.

I suggest you heed the rule.

 

And also, lose the attitude.

I don’t have an attitude. You threatened me and (incorrectly) said I was trolling people, when it’s obvious I wasn’t. Someone else posted a disingenuous meme that I rebutted with logic. If you like the movie you like it, if you don’t like it you don’t like it, but some people can’t let any slight go unanswered, even if they have to do mental gymnastics to make dishonest points.

At the objection of another user, I did go back and qualify my statement by saying not all people who like the movie are that way. Of course that’s true, and I regret that in my haste I implied otherwise.

If you had politely pointed out my improper generalization, I would have quickly agreed with you. Don’t you think?

But rudeness without an any effort at discourse is usually a sign of contempt.
Is it the user name, or the hatred of TLJ and Disney? Just curious.

I missed this.

No, I didn’t threaten you - incorrectly or otherwise. Nor did I say you were trolling people.

I suggest you re-read my words again…

‘If that is your attitude - then why are you here? To bait or antagonise those on here that do like these films? If so your stay here is going to be a short one.’

Note the question - not a statement, not a threat - just a heads-up that IF you are here to bait or antagonise those on here that do like these films your stay on here will be a short one.
 

And you certainly do have an attitude - your posts to me alone prove so.

Rein it in.

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 (Edited)

Just a little extra information regarding the Kylo/Rey lightsaber fight in TFA.

Kylo Ren’s biography on starwars.com:

“Kylo faced his father inside the First Order’s Starkiller Base, and struck Han down with his lightsaber. But this shocking act of patricide didn’t make the former Ben Solo feel stronger – somehow he felt weaker. Rey then bested Kylo in a lightsaber duel, sparing his life. Kylo Ren had hoped to end the conflicts that caused him so such pain, but found he remained at war with himself, more lost than ever.”

http://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren

Rey bested Kylo, sparing his life.

Force Awakens screenplay:

CHEST. HE GOES DOWN, SUDDENLY A FEARFUL MAN, A LARGE BURN
SCAR SLASHED ACROSS HIS FACE! He still reaches for his saber.
And she could kill him – right now, with ONE VICIOUS STRIKE!
But she stops. Realizing she stands on a greater edge than
even the cliff – the edge of the dark side. The earth
SHAKES. The earth splits. A gully forms.

http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Force-Awakens.html

There is no doubt. Rey defeated Kylo in TFA, and she spared his life. That’s what Abrams and Kasdan intended, and that’s what’s in the film.

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I maintain my position that website biographies, novelizations, screenplays, etc. are inadmissible and all that matters is what was on the screen.

With that said, I don’t think there’s much question that Rey “won” that fight. Which I’m fine with given Kylo’s condition at the time.

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oojason said:

It exists in this film - as stated above. You can go back and select whatever criteria you wish - it does not make it that it did not happen in this film. I don’t have to account for it not appearing for it’s absence in previous films at all - as that is not what the context of the situation is about.

The point that it is not in the previous films, stretches credibility.

Though if so, I could point out that the balance of the force - and it’s interpretation - is indeed mentioned in the PT, yes?

Nice one, thanks.

What is mentioned in the PT is idea of the Chosen One bringing balance to force. Now its seems a Chosen one was not needed, the force auto balances itself.

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TV’s Frink said:

I maintain my position that website biographies, novelizations, screenplays, etc. are inadmissible and all that matters is what was on the screen.

With that said, I don’t think there’s much question that Rey “won” that fight. Which I’m fine with given Kylo’s condition at the time.

I’m fine with it too. The screenplay does speak for the intentions of the creators, and proofs that it’s not just some random interpretation of a few fans trying to push their own narrative. Once we’ve established what the creator’s intended, we can discuss if that translated well to the screen.

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DrDre said:

oojason said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

Rey won a lightsaber fight without any training at all. This indicates that she is special and incredibly strong in the force and it begs for an explanation.

When was this lightsabre fight?

In TFA.

You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…

Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…

Um, she did win the fight. The only reason he survived or wasn’t taken prisoner is because of the planet coming apart.

No, he’s just on his arse. There was no winner due to the planet coming apart.

Go watch the fight again. He was on ass before the planet came apart. He was on the ground helpless for 15 seconds before the planet came apart and they were separated. She won the fight.

Look this and tell me she didn’t win the fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI&feature=youtu.be&t=4m18s

How about you go watch all of the fight again? And post in on here (don’t worry - I have below).

Just because - as I stated before - he is on his arse and scarred in the final few blows of the fight - doesn’t mean she won the fight.

The planet came apart before there was any ‘winner’.

Selecting certain scenes from an overall event to highlight an opinion does not make it fact. I find it baffling that you think it does.

Try watching the whole fight, here you go - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI - and put it into context of my previous posts. Rey is on the back foot and losing the fight - on the edge of a ‘cliff’ before she let’s the force in… and even then the planet breaks apart before there any winner…

I don’t buy this. Did Luke not win the fight against Vader in ROTJ? Vader was wounded, disarmed, and on his arse like Kylo. Once Rey found her composure, and used the Force she got the better of Kylo pretty quickly. If the earthquake had not separated them, she could have sliced him in half. I would call that winning the fight.

Again, don’t take my previous comments out of context - or give conjecture to them (‘could’) - in that…

'You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…

Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…’

For all we know Kylo could have lost his cool - in doing so ignoring Snoke’s instructions to bring her to him and sliced her in half… see conjecture…
 

Again, circular arguments selectively cherrypicked to try - and fail - to prove your point does you - nor you view any favours.

Sorry this makes no sense to me. You’re willfully ignoring what happens in the film. Kylo isn’t even able to properly defend himself, which is why he lands in his arse wounded and beaten. Vader did not want to kill Luke. He wanted to turn Luke. Conjecture: Vader loses his cool, ignores his master’s wishes, and slices Luke in half. Ergo, Vader didn’t lose the fight. Doesn’t sound very convincing, does it?

Snoke in TLJ:

“You got beaten by a girl? A novice?!!”

I will repeat that phrase: BEATEN. Kylo Ren got beaten in TFA. That’s the official canon.

According to Snoke’s point of view - in a dismissive put-down to Ren. That it not canon. A girl who Snoke now realises is the light rising to fight the darkness - not Skywalker as he mistakenly assumed earlier (and mentioned earlier - which again you seemed to have conveniently ignored, again).

And I didn’t mention Vader and Luke at all.

Plus, once again the planet breaks up before there is a winner.

 

She may well be special and strong with the force - Snoke’s on-screen ascertain to Rey that… ‘So much strength. Darkness rises and light to meet it’ & ‘I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger that the equal in the light would rise’ (and his mistaken assumption that was Luke - not Rey) is a statement of this. That you choose to ignore this as an explanation is on you.

As I said, I buy that explanation because this thing of the equal of the light rising wasn’t shown or referred to in any of the other movies.

Things evolve and change over the course of these films - that they aren’t mentioned or shown previously does not negate them. That it is mentioned on-screen - whether you agree, dislike, or ‘buy’ it - does not negate it.

Either it is a thing that exists or it doesn’t. If it exists what are the odds something like wouldn’t be mentioned at all?
It didn’t happen the PT, It didn’t happen between Luke and Vader. It is not mentioned at all in any previous film. That is the problem when you decide to invent something new, you have to account for its absence in the prior films. I don’t the evolve and change stuff. Either this is something the force does or it doesn’t.

If you want to ignore an explanation then go ahead and ignore it - but don’t then state there wasn’t one / or that it then ‘begs for an explanation’.

Maybe I should have said “begs for a better explanation”.

It exists in this film - as stated above. You can go back and select whatever criteria you wish - it does not make it that it did not happen in this film. I don’t have to account for it not appearing for it’s absence in previous films at all - as that is not what the context of the situation is about.

Though if so, I could point out that the balance of the force - and it’s interpretation - is indeed mentioned in the PT, yes?

Nice one, thanks.

Yes, and that interpretation is, that balance to the Force is equated to destroying the Sith, as stated in ROTS by Obi-Wan, and since confirmed by Lucas in interviews after ROTS was released.

No, It is also mentioned by Mace Windu too, amongst others. Yes? Without equating the balance in destroying the Sith? Thank you for the reminder in proving my point.

George can say what he wants in interviews after the fact - he is hardly a paragon of consistency, or fact/truth is he?

Yes, the balance is mentioned without any explanation. The only explanation given in the films is the one given by Obi-Wan, hence it is the only correct interpretation. Anything else is fan fiction, or head canon. Luke’s parentage was only confirmed by Yoda in ROTJ. Should we thus ignore this fact, because it doesn’t fit a fan’s narrative? I’m sure Lucas has mentioned Vader being Luke’s father too in interviews, but…

George can say what he wants in interviews after the fact - he is hardly a paragon of consistency, or fact/truth is he?

Actually, it is mentioned in the context of the prophecy of ‘the one who will bring balance to the force’ - as previously stated, an interpretation - but actually mentioned - which was the point. This is a fact - not a fan’s narrative, yes?

Again, thanks.
 

I’ve had my fill of answering selective statements whilst going around in circles - again, as stated before. I’m sure you’ll have even more selective statements out of context repeatedly made for those who disagree with your opinions on TLJ. If not, there are always Rey is the Wonder Woman of Star Wars universe type quips.
 

As for StarWars.com articles - Rey didn’t have time to spare Kylo’s life… the erm… planet broke up before there was a winner (I think I may have mentioned it before 😉) - you can even see it in the film, in case you need to go looking for more articles to ‘prove’ what actually happened in the film… didn’t happen. Or something.

G’night.

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

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Author
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 (Edited)

oojason said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

oojason said:

Warbler said:

Rey won a lightsaber fight without any training at all. This indicates that she is special and incredibly strong in the force and it begs for an explanation.

When was this lightsabre fight?

In TFA.

You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…

Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…

Um, she did win the fight. The only reason he survived or wasn’t taken prisoner is because of the planet coming apart.

No, he’s just on his arse. There was no winner due to the planet coming apart.

Go watch the fight again. He was on ass before the planet came apart. He was on the ground helpless for 15 seconds before the planet came apart and they were separated. She won the fight.

Look this and tell me she didn’t win the fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI&feature=youtu.be&t=4m18s

How about you go watch all of the fight again? And post in on here (don’t worry - I have below).

Just because - as I stated before - he is on his arse and scarred in the final few blows of the fight - doesn’t mean she won the fight.

The planet came apart before there was any ‘winner’.

Selecting certain scenes from an overall event to highlight an opinion does not make it fact. I find it baffling that you think it does.

Try watching the whole fight, here you go - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI - and put it into context of my previous posts. Rey is on the back foot and losing the fight - on the edge of a ‘cliff’ before she let’s the force in… and even then the planet breaks apart before there any winner…

I don’t buy this. Did Luke not win the fight against Vader in ROTJ? Vader was wounded, disarmed, and on his arse like Kylo. Once Rey found her composure, and used the Force she got the better of Kylo pretty quickly. If the earthquake had not separated them, she could have sliced him in half. I would call that winning the fight.

Again, don’t take my previous comments out of context - or give conjecture to them (‘could’) - in that…

'You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…

Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…’

For all we know Kylo could have lost his cool - in doing so ignoring Snoke’s instructions to bring her to him and sliced her in half… see conjecture…
 

Again, circular arguments selectively cherrypicked to try - and fail - to prove your point does you - nor you view any favours.

Sorry this makes no sense to me. You’re willfully ignoring what happens in the film. Kylo isn’t even able to properly defend himself, which is why he lands in his arse wounded and beaten. Vader did not want to kill Luke. He wanted to turn Luke. Conjecture: Vader loses his cool, ignores his master’s wishes, and slices Luke in half. Ergo, Vader didn’t lose the fight. Doesn’t sound very convincing, does it?

Snoke in TLJ:

“You got beaten by a girl? A novice?!!”

I will repeat that phrase: BEATEN. Kylo Ren got beaten in TFA. That’s the official canon.

According to Snoke’s point of view - in a dismissive put-down to Ren. That it not canon. A girl who Snoke now realises is the light rising to fight the darkness - not Skywalker as he mistakenly assumed earlier (and mentioned earlier - which again you seemed to have conveniently ignored, again).

And I didn’t mention Vader and Luke at all.

Plus, once again the planet breaks up before there is a winner.

 

She may well be special and strong with the force - Snoke’s on-screen ascertain to Rey that… ‘So much strength. Darkness rises and light to meet it’ & ‘I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger that the equal in the light would rise’ (and his mistaken assumption that was Luke - not Rey) is a statement of this. That you choose to ignore this as an explanation is on you.

As I said, I buy that explanation because this thing of the equal of the light rising wasn’t shown or referred to in any of the other movies.

Things evolve and change over the course of these films - that they aren’t mentioned or shown previously does not negate them. That it is mentioned on-screen - whether you agree, dislike, or ‘buy’ it - does not negate it.

Either it is a thing that exists or it doesn’t. If it exists what are the odds something like wouldn’t be mentioned at all?
It didn’t happen the PT, It didn’t happen between Luke and Vader. It is not mentioned at all in any previous film. That is the problem when you decide to invent something new, you have to account for its absence in the prior films. I don’t the evolve and change stuff. Either this is something the force does or it doesn’t.

If you want to ignore an explanation then go ahead and ignore it - but don’t then state there wasn’t one / or that it then ‘begs for an explanation’.

Maybe I should have said “begs for a better explanation”.

It exists in this film - as stated above. You can go back and select whatever criteria you wish - it does not make it that it did not happen in this film. I don’t have to account for it not appearing for it’s absence in previous films at all - as that is not what the context of the situation is about.

Though if so, I could point out that the balance of the force - and it’s interpretation - is indeed mentioned in the PT, yes?

Nice one, thanks.

Yes, and that interpretation is, that balance to the Force is equated to destroying the Sith, as stated in ROTS by Obi-Wan, and since confirmed by Lucas in interviews after ROTS was released.

No, It is also mentioned by Mace Windu too, amongst others. Yes? Without equating the balance in destroying the Sith? Thank you for the reminder in proving my point.

George can say what he wants in interviews after the fact - he is hardly a paragon of consistency, or fact/truth is he?

Yes, the balance is mentioned without any explanation. The only explanation given in the films is the one given by Obi-Wan, hence it is the only correct interpretation. Anything else is fan fiction, or head canon. Luke’s parentage was only confirmed by Yoda in ROTJ. Should we thus ignore this fact, because it doesn’t fit a fan’s narrative? I’m sure Lucas has mentioned Vader being Luke’s father too in interviews, but…

George can say what he wants in interviews after the fact - he is hardly a paragon of consistency, or fact/truth is he?

Actually, it is mentioned in the context of the prophecy of ‘the one who will bring balance to the force’ - as previously stated, an interpretation - but actually mentioned - which was the point. This is a fact - not a fan’s narrative, yes?

Again, thanks.
 

I’ve had my fill of answering selective statements whilst going around in circles - again, as stated before. I’m sure you’ll have even more selective statements out of context repeatedly made for those who disagree with your opinions on TLJ. If not, there are always Rey is the Wonder Woman of Star Wars universe type quips.
 

As for StarWars.com articles - Rey didn’t have time to spare Kylo’s life… the erm… planet broke up before there was a winner (I think I may have mentioned it before 😉) - you can even see it in the film, in case you need to go looking for more articles to prove what actually happened in the film… didn’t happen. Or something.

G’night.

No I provided undeniable proof via the TFA screenplay. That’s what the creators intended. There’s nothing selective about that. You can keep denying the facts, if you want.

I reinterate:

Force Awakens screenplay:

CHEST. HE GOES DOWN, SUDDENLY A FEARFUL MAN, A LARGE BURN
SCAR SLASHED ACROSS HIS FACE! He still reaches for his saber.
And she could kill him – right now, with ONE VICIOUS STRIKE!
But she stops. Realizing she stands on a greater edge than
even the cliff – the edge of the dark side. The earth
SHAKES. The earth splits. A gully forms.

http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Force-Awakens.html

That’s, what’s in the screenplay. That’s what’s in the film. That’s, what we’ve been arguing.

G’night.