Sign In

Rian Johnson to Head New Star Wars Trilogy — Page 7

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Let’s try to return this thread to being about a new and fresh Star Wars Trilogy - rather than people continuing to bash on TLJ.

Take it to the Spaceballs thread good people 😉 Or keep the TLJ bashing to one of the many TLJ threads, please.

 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here?
And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Author
Time

oojason said:

Let’s try to return this thread to being about a new and fresh Star Wars Trilogy - rather than people continuing to bash on TLJ.

Take it to the Spaceballs thread good people 😉 Or keep the TLJ bashing to one of the many TLJ threads, please.

 

But TLJ is related to the Rian Johnson trilogy. It gives us an idea of what the style and presentation of this new trilogy will be. So it makes sense to refer to criticisms of TLJ when discussing expectations.

Author
Time

Hal 9000 said:

You know I’m not talking about comedy as such.

Truthfully, as I’ve never understand the complaint, I don’t really know what you’re talking about. The comedy of TLJ doesn’t feel out of character for the series to me if that’s what you mean.

Author
Time

Most of what I have in mind are not things that presented themselves as objectionable during my first viewing, although the opening ‘mother’ joke certainly did. It’s the stuff that seemed to dress Star Wars down, that framed the movie as somewhat meta, rather than playing it straight.
With all the humor throughout the OT, just to avoid 3PO swapping heads with a battle droid for now, the story played as sincere. I’m thinking about Mark Hamill’s audition tape, which he says he played as earnestly as he could. TFA, although to a less obvious extent, also seems to refrain from a totally sincere approach and preferring to stick in the safety zone of a Star Wars movie about Star Wars.
I’m not sure how else to put it right now. Perhaps they feel the moviegoers of today need the winks and nods of, “Don’t worry, even the characters in the movie know this is a bit silly.” Compared to ANH, say, it’s a subtle course change that takes things off track. And who knows? Maybe there’s no way the sincere approach would have worked. But it seems a shame to me, as much as I do like the ST so far.

Rogue One has a different tone from the ST, but it seems to play things sincerely in a similar way as I am talking about. Even Solo manages to get this dynamic right, I think, just on the other side of the drama-comedy balance.

Oh, right, what thread is this? So, uh… hopefully Rian’s trilogy in which he gets to build everything from scratch won’t need to have as much deconstruction, since it’s something he personally is building up.

Author
Time

I think there is some truth to this, like when Rose and Finn give each other “that look”, once during Maz’s hologram and later with BB-8 in the AT-ST, it sorta makes it feel meta. Like, I don’t think those moments would be as weird without those shots (at least with BB-8, it sorta makes sense with Maz, although Finn just making a grossed out face might’ve been funnier!).

I DO think the topic on humor is relevant, since it might reflect his approach to humor in his own trilogy. Who knows?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I think there’s plenty of humor in the OT that is somewhat meta and dresses down the typical conventions of genre films. Maybe not to the extent of the ST but I find the humor in the latter trilogy to be a not unnatural extension. It’s funny because I’d say the attitude of “Don’t worry, even the characters in the movie know this is a bit silly” is something that can be found in the original film and one of the things I love about it. Obviously you take that too far and you’ve undercut the world you’re building but I truly am not sure where TLJ supposedly did that.

As to the question of earnestness, I think there’s a whole lot of it on display in TLJ, I would easily say far more so than TFA, honestly.

I personally feel like Solo was very much cut from the same cloth, if anything I’d say it’s the only one that maybe took the meta winks too far. Rogue One is definitely the lightest on comedy but it also happens to be the least fun Star Wars movie to watch by a mile - correlation inconclusive.

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

I think there’s plenty of humor in the OT that is somewhat meta and dresses down the typical conventions of genre films.

One thing that comes to mind is the gang’s reaction to the Ewoks. I think they take them as seriously as we do.

Author
Time

Knives Out sounds like a blast. He said it’s a mystery movie and listed several movies that were inspirational in making it. Among those were Clue, Murder By Death, The Private Eyes, Deathtrap, and Something’s Afoot, so I’m sure there will be a strong comedy element. He also named Evil Under the Sun, Death on the Nile, The Last of Sheila, Gosford Park, The Mirror Crack’d, and Murder on the Orient Express. The cast is great and I can’t wait to see it.

Daniel Craig as Detective Benoit Blanc
Chris Evans
Lakeith Stanfield as Detective Troy Archer
Michael Shannon
Ana de Armas
Don Johnson as Morris Bristow
Jamie Lee Curtis
Toni Collette
Christopher Plummer

Knives Out is most likely comedic, but I wouldn’t call Looper or Brick comedies, The Last Jedi isn’t either. Hopefully we get some details soon. Can’t wait!

Author
Time
 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

I think there’s plenty of humor in the OT that is somewhat meta and dresses down the typical conventions of genre films. Maybe not to the extent of the ST but I find the humor in the latter trilogy to be a not unnatural extension. It’s funny because I’d say the attitude of “Don’t worry, even the characters in the movie know this is a bit silly” is something that can be found in the original film and one of the things I love about it. Obviously you take that too far and you’ve undercut the world you’re building but I truly am not sure where TLJ supposedly did that.

I can. General Hux, who was presented as a complete fanatic, a competitor for Kylo Ren, and one of the people in charge of the FO, became a complete joke in TLJ. The ST had three main villains Kylo Ren, Snoke, and Hux. Out of those three one villain was killed, while another was turned into a laughing stock, first with the yo momma joke, which made Hux seem incompetent, and non-threatening. Then there’s the humorous way Snoke chastised his subordinate, which at first glance would make Snoke seem very powerful, but considering Snoke ends up dead, it ultimately only serves to make Hux seem like a sniveling weakling. Then there’s the way Kylo throws Hux around like a rag doll at the end of the movie, and there are a number of other scenes, where Hux comes across as a parody of an imperial officer, rather than a true menacing villain.

The faces of two complete baffoons, one was in the right movie, the other in the wrong one imo:

There was a mutual respect between Tarkin and Vader in An New Hope, which supported the idea, that both these villains are threatening, and competent in their own way, Vader with brute force, and Tarkin with his intellect. Even in TESB, they never made Admiral Piett seem like a joke for example. While Vader killed several of his underlings, this mostly served to make Vader seem powerful and feared, but never in such a way that the imperial officers seem like incompetent fools. This approach made Admiral Piett an effective bad guy in ROTJ, where he actually seemed far more comfortable in his position than in TESB. I really can’t take General Hux seriously any more after TLJ. He’s been relegated to being the Alfred of the ST:

Author
Time

or Hux was just always an overly hateful whiny bitch whose bark was bigger than his bite from the very start and the intent was for the audience to feel a bit of catharsis watching him get his come uppance and be exposed for the punk he really is

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

Author
Time
 (Edited)

screams in the void said:

or Hux was just always an overly hateful whiny bitch whose bark was bigger than his bite from the very start and the intent was for the audience to feel a bit of catharsis watching him get his come uppance and be exposed for the punk he really is

Thus leaving only the very emo Kylo Ren as the face of evil, making the FO seem far less capable and threatening than ever before. That doesn’t seem like a smart move for setting up the final installment of the saga, although it does explain the very postive attitude of those aboard the Millenium Falcon. With the opposition only relying on superior numbers, led by an emotionally instable Supreme Leader, who Rey’s already beaten once, the good guys can’t lose.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Hux is actually very capable. The films paint him as the mastermind behind both the Starkiller and the hyperspace tracking. Butt of jokes or not, the character is a legit threat, and could make a play to win the First Order for himself.

As to the stakes going into IX, I guess it’s personal preference, but I appreciate that you can stop watching after TLJ and feel satisfied. Probably one of the only things I dislike about ESB is that it doesn’t work as a standalone. It tries to make it up with a happy-ish ending, but it still feels lacking for me. With TLJ, at the end, the Resistance is at its lowest point yet. Their fleet has been wiped out, all they have is the Falcon and a group of maybe 40 people tops. That’d be a pretty rough ending for a movie, so I really like that the film lays down the track so you can see how they have “everything they need” to come out on top.

In my mind, it’s up to IX to set the stakes for itself. I find it to be the same relationship TFA had with TLJ. At the end of TFA, the FO has had a big blow, and Rey has located their savior, Skywalker. Which made it up to TLJ to establish its own stakes. Obviously opinions differ on execution, but I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with the approach itself. Again, personal preference I guess, but I personally would hate it if a Star Wars film ended like Infinity War, for instance.

DrDre said:

There was a mutual respect between Tarkin and Vader in An New Hope, which supported the idea, that both these villains are threatening, and competent in their own way, Vader with brute force, and Tarkin with his intellect.

Another way in which people complain that the ST isn’t similar enough I guess. Kylo and Hux hate each other. I find that a much more interesting dynamic than Tarkin/Vader and am very curious to see where that goes now that their leader is gone and it’s just them.

Even in TESB, they never made Admiral Piett seem like a joke for example. While Vader killed several of his underlings, this mostly served to make Vader seem powerful and feared, but never in such a way that the imperial officers seem like incompetent fools.

Vader literally says that one of his officers is “as clumsy as he is stupid.” Piett might not be the joke that Hux is, but he definitely makes me laugh in ESB with his various pants-shitting faces.

This approach made Admiral Piett an effective bad guy in ROTJ, where he actually seemed far more comfortable in his position than in TESB.

An effective bad guy in ROTJ? Really? He’s barely even in that movie. He literally does nothing. I didn’t even realize it was the same guy from ESB when I was a kid. Very little impression from him. The more prominent officer in ROTJ is Jerjerrod, and how could anyone take that guy as a serious threat? He takes Piett’s occasional pants-shitting faces and makes them his whole personality.

Author
Time

Sometimes I think I’m losing my mind when there are so many TLJ complaints, but that gif from The Hobbit: Battle for Whatever reminds me what a bad movie really is. Good god what a waste.

Yub Nub for life

Author
Time

DrDre said:

screams in the void said:

or Hux was just always an overly hateful whiny bitch whose bark was bigger than his bite from the very start and the intent was for the audience to feel a bit of catharsis watching him get his come uppance and be exposed for the punk he really is

Thus leaving only the very emo Kylo Ren as the face of evil, making the FO seem far less capable and threatening than ever before. That doesn’t seem like a smart move for setting up the final installment of the saga, although it does explain the very postive attitude of those aboard the Millenium Falcon. With the opposition only relying on superior numbers, led by an emotionally instable Supreme Leader, who Rey’s already beaten once, the good guys can’t lose.

I will just leave this here …http://colleenhenry.blogspot.com/2007/05/awesome-kevin-smith-comment-about-star.html

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

Author
Time
 (Edited)

screams in the void said:

DrDre said:

screams in the void said:

or Hux was just always an overly hateful whiny bitch whose bark was bigger than his bite from the very start and the intent was for the audience to feel a bit of catharsis watching him get his come uppance and be exposed for the punk he really is

Thus leaving only the very emo Kylo Ren as the face of evil, making the FO seem far less capable and threatening than ever before. That doesn’t seem like a smart move for setting up the final installment of the saga, although it does explain the very postive attitude of those aboard the Millenium Falcon. With the opposition only relying on superior numbers, led by an emotionally instable Supreme Leader, who Rey’s already beaten once, the good guys can’t lose.

I will just leave this here …http://colleenhenry.blogspot.com/2007/05/awesome-kevin-smith-comment-about-star.html

Well, even if mostly “weird emo” kids turn evil, something I don’t necessarily agree with, since greed and lust for power are pretty generic vices in the human experience, it takes many years for a disturbed kid like Anakin, or Ben to develop into a methodical, and cunning villain like Darth Vader, or a demonic puppet master like Palpatine, and Snoke. So, I maintain that while Kylo Ren works as the conflicted villain at the side of a powerful evil entity, he’s far less effective as the main villain, mostly because of the way his character developed over the course of the ST:

In TFA Kylo Ren was deliberately set up as a seemingly methodical super bad, a Darth Vader subsitute, but was ultimately revealed to be something of a poser, an emotionally volatile, and conflicted wannabe, in serious need of more training, and who was ultimately fairly easily bested by the newbie Rey, even if he was wounded at the time. However, that training never happened, and through circumstances, and Snoke’s stupidity, he was able to dispatch his far more powerful and imposing master. The only other villain of the ST was Hux (since Phasma was never a serious threat to begin with), an extremist, who at his young age, served as a Tarkin surrogate, but sadly TLJ turned him into a complete joke, who despite having achieved much on paper, in TLJ comes across as a caricature of an imperial officer, mostly played for laughs. So, the only serious villain left is Kylo Ren, who by the end of TLJ is as petty, and unstable as ever, almost foaming at the mouth when he tells Luke he will kill everyone, like some petulant child in need of a good spanking. So, while TLJ had several interesting plot developments, the FO presents only a fraction of the threat the Empire respresented imo, since the only competent, and imposing face of evil was cut in half by his far less accomplished apprentice. Thus, in my view the FO needs a more grounded and methodical villain to balance Kylo Ren’s volatile nature. Let’s hope Abrams can provide one, and add some much needed menace to the FO, since RJ has disqualified Hux, as far as I’m concerned.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

What should his training have involved, in your opinion?

Also, thumbs up for the Dr. Evil meme.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

RogueLeader said:

What should his training have involved, in your opinion?

Also, thumbs up for the Dr. Evil meme.

I think the idea of Kylo killing Snoke is a good one, and I mostly like the execution, but their relationship should have been developed more, which might have involved some training, and unlocking previously hidden powers. It might have been revealed, that Snoke in reality fears Ben Solo’s power, and put measures in place to limit that power. I also think Ben should have grown up, and not still be the emo kid he was in the previous film. His screaming towards Luke felt like regression to me after he seemed quite composed following the death of Snoke.

Author
Time

I wouldn’t write Hux off just yet. Some people can only be throttled or thrown into a wall so many times before they start plotting assassination attempts.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

Hard to beat Vader in the intimidatingly evil department. I like that they went in a different direction with Kylo. It’s not that they didn’t know how to make him more menacing. They just didn’t want to write a Vader clone. Kylo is Kylo. He’s got his own issues. Not being as big of a deal as Vader just makes his idolization of him more torturous. He wants to be but just isn’t. I still wouldn’t piss him off though.

Author
Time

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

How did that one end? Lol

They tried to blow Vader out an airlock, but he Force walked his way back in. Something that would have been awesome to see in the movies. I think all those Imperials died when the station they were on blew up, so Vader didn’t get to throttle any of them.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

Haha, I love the way they’re holding hands in a circle.

I do think the Imperial officers would have tried to usurp Vader if Vader had took Palpatine’s place. The Imperial beauracracy respected and feared the Emperor, and he knew how to manipulate them, but Vader only has fear.

And Dre, I see what you’re saying about Kylo. I always saw his training that he needed to complete was more of a test of his spirit rather than of actual skills. Killing Han didn’t have the effect that Kylo thought it would, and Snoke sensed that, so the whole thing with Rey was another test. I don’t think Kylo’s loss to Rey had nothing to do with skill, but with mindset.

This carries forward with his instability in front of Luke. With the prospect of Rey joining him after Snoke’s death, that was when he was the most confident. But Rey refusing to join him, plus Luke’s sudden appearance, shows that Kylo really hasn’t let the past die, as much as he wants to. If he had, he would have saw through Luke’s illusion and destroyed the Resistance, but his anger and resentment blinded him. He couldn’t let go of the past. So yes, it was a regression. The ending of the film I think demonstrates just how miserable the dark side makes you.

I personally would’ve toned down some of the humor with Hux a little, but I think how all that will be seen going forward partially relies on what Hux will be like in IX. I also think they could’ve tried to touch briefly on the dynamic between the old Imperial guard and the First Order generation, and the tension between them. It could’ve added to Hux’s story a little. I do think Hux seems to have learned from his overconfidence a little by the end of TLJ, like when he tries to tell Kylo not to lose track of their goal by facing Luke one-on-one. And that last look Hux seems to be giving Kylo. It definitely gives a sinister vibe, like they could be setting up something, but I guess we’ll see if JJ carries that forward in IX.

The way RJ handle’s character does make me think his new trilogy will be really character driven, but then again, I think the middle chapter of trilogies can be inherently like that. I would bet his trilogy will be smaller-scale and character driven, but then again he might want to go in a totally different direction than the story he told in TLJ.

I do really hope people will give it a chance since it will be brand new characters. But even if people aren’t fond of it, will also have B&W’s trilogy and all the TV shows, so I think there’ll be something for everybody.

Author
Time

RogueLeader said:

Haha, I love the way they’re holding hands in a circle.

I do think the Imperial officers would have tried to usurp Vader if Vader had took Palpatine’s place. The Imperial beauracracy respected and feared the Emperor, and he knew how to manipulate them, but Vader only has fear.

And Dre, I see what you’re saying about Kylo. I always saw his training that he needed to complete was more of a test of his spirit rather than of actual skills. Killing Han didn’t have the effect that Kylo thought it would, and Snoke sensed that, so the whole thing with Rey was another test. I don’t think Kylo’s loss to Rey had nothing to do with skill, but with mindset.

This carries forward with his instability in front of Luke. With the prospect of Rey joining him after Snoke’s death, that was when he was the most confident. But Rey refusing to join him, plus Luke’s sudden appearance, shows that Kylo really hasn’t let the past die, as much as he wants to. If he had, he would have saw through Luke’s illusion and destroyed the Resistance, but his anger and resentment blinded him. He couldn’t let go of the past. So yes, it was a regression. The ending of the film I think demonstrates just how miserable the dark side makes you.

I personally would’ve toned down some of the humor with Hux a little, but I think how all that will be seen going forward partially relies on what Hux will be like in IX. I also think they could’ve tried to touch briefly on the dynamic between the old Imperial guard and the First Order generation, and the tension between them. It could’ve added to Hux’s story a little. I do think Hux seems to have learned from his overconfidence a little by the end of TLJ, like when he tries to tell Kylo not to lose track of their goal by facing Luke one-on-one. And that last look Hux seems to be giving Kylo. It definitely gives a sinister vibe, like they could be setting up something, but I guess we’ll see if JJ carries that forward in IX.

The way RJ handle’s character does make me think his new trilogy will be really character driven, but then again, I think the middle chapter of trilogies can be inherently like that. I would bet his trilogy will be smaller-scale and character driven, but then again he might want to go in a totally different direction than the story he told in TLJ.

I do really hope people will give it a chance since it will be brand new characters. But even if people aren’t fond of it, will also have B&W’s trilogy and all the TV shows, so I think there’ll be something for everybody.

Great post! I too am curious where JJ will take the characters, including Hux. Hux betraying Kylo would be an interesting direction. I also am curious where RJ will take his trilogy. I do hope it will be character driven like you.

Author
Time

I think one coolest things about the next few years I’m looking forward to is that we will be getting two trilogies simultaneously with (hopefully) two very different stories and vibes. Not only that, but they’re both (presumably) brand new tales. I know people have been craving new stories, and now with the Sequel Trilogy coming to a close, we’re finally getting that. Not only that, but we can’t forhet the TV shows as well, which seem to be pushing technology forward, which was really important for Lucas. I think there’s gonna be something for every Star Wars fan in the next few years, and hopefully the best is yet to come.