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Religion — Page 125

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Why is it taking so long for Ben Stiller to release his version of the bible?

“Ryan Gosling staring off into the distance”

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moviefreakedmind said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/john-allen-chau-man-killed-by-tribe-north-sentinel-island-declare-jesus

American christian potentially spreads pathogens capable of killing an entire tribe of pre-contact indigenous people, all in the name of Jesus.

I’ve read a few articles on this - and am still struggling to understand why someone would risk the lives of the tribe (as you say) - who have repeatedly demonstrated for a long time they wish to be left alone - (as well as risking their own lives) to spread the word of Christianity - or any religion for that matter.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/21/american-killed-isolated-indian-tribe-north-sentinel-island
 


Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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Because eternal salvation is a lot more important than 80-or-so years on earth. And now that we’ve minimized the spread of so many diseases, the risk of spreading disease is a lot less than it once was.

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RicOlie_2 said:

Because eternal salvation is a lot more important than 80-or-so years on earth. And now that we’ve minimized the spread of so many diseases, the risk of spreading disease is a lot less than it once was.

I see no reason to respond to the first nasty, rotten, disgusting sentence of your nasty, rotten, disgusting post because I think it’s obvious bullshit to any rational person and I think that everyone, including the Christians on this site would say that it’s disgusting to disregard the lives of these people just so that you can potentially spread your ideology to them. As for your second nasty, rotten, disgusting sentence, these people don’t have immunity to the diseases that we all have immunity to. A simple case of the flu could potentially kill every man, woman, and child on that island. Of course, as you said, who gives a shit about that though when we’re dealing with eternal salvation?! Fuck your eternal salvation. Cool people rot in hell.

The Person in Question

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RicOlie_2 said:

Because eternal salvation is a lot more important than 80-or-so years on earth.

This mindset is why traditional Christianity is distasteful to me. It places evangelism over compassion for your fellow man, and it paints God as an asshole; the former is dehumanizing, the latter frankly blasphemous.

And now that we’ve minimized the spread of so many diseases, the risk of spreading disease is a lot less than it once was.

Still too great for these people, it would appear, or it wouldn’t be illegal to make contact with them.

Arrivederci.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

RicOlie_2 said:

Because eternal salvation is a lot more important than 80-or-so years on earth.

This mindset is why traditional Christianity is distasteful to me. It places evangelism over compassion for your fellow man, and it paints God as an asshole; the former is dehumanizing, the latter frankly blasphemous.

I understand where you’re coming from, but why is life more important than knowing truth? Not that all possible precautions shouldn’t be taken to prevent the loss of life before spreading the truth. Christianity rejects the modern premise that truth is either unknowable or unimportant, and because Christians believe truth to be inextricably tied to eternal life, knowing and living (or dying) according to the truth is the greatest good. And consequently, a short life with knowledge of the truth is better than a long life in ignorance of it.

It is quite possible, however, that because these people have never known about God, they could never reject him, and wouldn’t condemn themselves to hell because of it, but that’s a risk that many Christians wouldn’t want to take. Not to mention that one’s capacity for happiness in heaven is dependent on the way one increases that capacity by growing in one’s relationship with God on earth.

But I certainly understand the dilemma, and haven’t entirely resolved it in my mind either.

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moviefreakedmind said:

RicOlie_2 said:

Because eternal salvation is a lot more important than 80-or-so years on earth. And now that we’ve minimized the spread of so many diseases, the risk of spreading disease is a lot less than it once was.

I see no reason to respond to the first nasty, rotten, disgusting sentence of your nasty, rotten, disgusting post

Clearly you did, because you did. 😛

because I think it’s obvious bullshit to any rational person

That eternal life is of greater importance than our finite lives on earth? I’m not sure I follow…

and I think that everyone, including the Christians on this site would say that it’s disgusting to disregard the lives of these people just so that you can potentially spread your ideology to them.

Ah, here is where we diverge in our opinion. I, and any missionary, see the Christian faith as joyful good news that we badly want everyone to know about. The modern conception of Christianity, having come out of a Christian society that was filled with less than exemplary behaviour, has been perverted so that most people in our society don’t really know what Christianity is all about, or why we Christians believe what we do.

It isn’t a matter of wanting people to accept our “ideology” in the way we might want people to share our political views. Not at all. We want people to know and love a person whom we know and love, and whom we believe loves everyone. And this happens to be the person we believe we will spend eternity with, whether it causes torment because you hate that person and God and close yourself off from him, or eternal happiness, because you love him.

As for your second nasty, rotten, disgusting sentence, these people don’t have immunity to the diseases that we all have immunity to. A simple case of the flu could potentially kill every man, woman, and child on that island. Of course, as you said, who gives a shit about that though when we’re dealing with eternal salvation?! Fuck your eternal salvation. Cool people rot in hell.

By the way, I’m not necessarily condoning that individual man’s actions. I’m simply explaining the principle. I have mixed feelings about what he did, and I think it’s seriously wrong to take another life. If you know that what you are doing could cause innocent people to die, it had better be pretty serious. The ends don’t justify the means.

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screams in the void said:

unless of course you are a Bhuddist , or myriad other religions or belief systems who have a different point of view

In which case you don’t believe in eternal salvation, so it’s a moot point. I happen to believe in it, and so by definition, I reject the alternative point of view as false.

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The Westboro Baptist Church thinks they’re doing the Lord’s work, so did Al Qaeda, so did Jim Jones, etc. etc. And no, I’m not saying you’re like them, but I’m pointing out that it doesn’t matter just how fucking much you believe you’re right. You’re still wrong.

The Person in Question

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RicOlie_2 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

RicOlie_2 said:

Because eternal salvation is a lot more important than 80-or-so years on earth.

This mindset is why traditional Christianity is distasteful to me. It places evangelism over compassion for your fellow man, and it paints God as an asshole; the former is dehumanizing, the latter frankly blasphemous.

I understand where you’re coming from, but why is life more important than knowing truth? Not that all possible precautions shouldn’t be taken to prevent the loss of life before spreading the truth. Christianity rejects the modern premise that truth is either unknowable or unimportant, and because Christians believe truth to be inextricably tied to eternal life, knowing and living (or dying) according to the truth is the greatest good. And consequently, a short life with knowledge of the truth is better than a long life in ignorance of it.

I also reject the premise that truth is unknowable/unimportant. Difference between our perspectives, though, is that I believe spiritual truth can be discerned intuitively, and one doesn’t need to belong to any particular religion to discern it.

It is quite possible, however, that because these people have never known about God, they could never reject him, and wouldn’t condemn themselves to hell because of it, but that’s a risk that many Christians wouldn’t want to take. Not to mention that one’s capacity for happiness in heaven is dependent on the way one increases that capacity by growing in one’s relationship with God on earth.

I believe in universal reconciliation, so this perspective just comes off as deficient to me.

Arrivederci.

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RicOlie_2 said:

screams in the void said:

unless of course you are a Bhuddist , or myriad other religions or belief systems who have a different point of view

In which case you don’t believe in eternal salvation, so it’s a moot point. I happen to believe in it, and so by definition, I reject the alternative point of view as false.

Basically, you think it is ok to endanger people because your religion is better than their’s. YOU are the vessel of ultimate truth.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Of course he thinks that. I want to make clear that these religious fundamentalists have changed very little over the millennia. They often can get away with a lot less atrocity than they could get away with in the past, but their motives and values are as backwards as they’ve ever been. Of course the lives of people who hold different religions are worth less to them than spreading the master faith is. There’s nothing new in this line of thinking.

The Person in Question

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Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

RicOlie_2 said:

screams in the void said:

unless of course you are a Bhuddist , or myriad other religions or belief systems who have a different point of view

In which case you don’t believe in eternal salvation, so it’s a moot point. I happen to believe in it, and so by definition, I reject the alternative point of view as false.

Basically, you think it is ok to endanger people because your religion is better than their’s. YOU are the vessel of ultimate truth.

No I don’t. As I posted above:

RicOlie_2 said:

By the way, I’m not necessarily condoning that individual man’s actions. I’m simply explaining the principle. I have mixed feelings about what he did, and I think it’s seriously wrong to take another life. If you know that what you are doing could cause innocent people to die, it had better be pretty serious. The ends don’t justify the means.

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moviefreakedmind said:

Of course he thinks that.

I literally told you, in a post replying to you, that I don’t. Please do me the courtesy of reading everything I say in my replies to you before you put words in my mouth.

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Ok, thanks for pointing out the clarification, and sorry for directing my comment specifically to you. I’ll change my “YOU” to point towards a larger swath of zealous missionaries, you specifically not necessarily included. (although some of your other posts do seem to fit the 2nd sentence - that is, being the lucky bearer of ultimate truth).

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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 (Edited)

RicOlie_2 said:

moviefreakedmind said:
and I think that everyone, including the Christians on this site would say that it’s disgusting to disregard the lives of these people just so that you can potentially spread your ideology to them.

Ah, here is where we diverge in our opinion. I, and any missionary, see the Christian faith as joyful good news that we badly want everyone to know about. The modern conception of Christianity, having come out of a Christian society that was filled with less than exemplary behaviour, has been perverted so that most people in our society don’t really know what Christianity is all about, or why we Christians believe what we do.

It isn’t a matter of wanting people to accept our “ideology” in the way we might want people to share our political views. Not at all. We want people to know and love a person whom we know and love, and whom we believe loves everyone. And this happens to be the person we believe we will spend eternity with, whether it causes torment because you hate that person and God and close yourself off from him, or eternal happiness, because you love him.

Sorry, mfm, I see the source of your confusion regarding my views. I was specifically replying to the “just so that you can potentially spread your ideology” part of your sentence, and I wasn’t clear about that.

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Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Ok, thanks for pointing out the clarification, and sorry for directing my comment specifically to you. I’ll change my “YOU” to point towards a larger swath of zealous missionaries, you specifically not necessarily included. (although some of your other posts do seem to fit the 2nd sentence - that is, being the lucky bearer of ultimate truth).

Thanks, and apologies, as I realize some of my posts were unclear. And I do in fact believe I am the (very) fortunate bearer of ultimate truth…I wouldn’t be Christian if I didn’t.

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moviefreakedmind said:

The Westboro Baptist Church thinks they’re doing the Lord’s work, so did Al Qaeda, so did Jim Jones, etc. etc. And no, I’m not saying you’re like them, but I’m pointing out that it doesn’t matter just how fucking much you believe you’re right. You’re still wrong.

Do you believe you’re right? If so, why?

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DuracellEnergizer said:

RicOlie_2 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

RicOlie_2 said:

Because eternal salvation is a lot more important than 80-or-so years on earth.

This mindset is why traditional Christianity is distasteful to me. It places evangelism over compassion for your fellow man, and it paints God as an asshole; the former is dehumanizing, the latter frankly blasphemous.

I understand where you’re coming from, but why is life more important than knowing truth? Not that all possible precautions shouldn’t be taken to prevent the loss of life before spreading the truth. Christianity rejects the modern premise that truth is either unknowable or unimportant, and because Christians believe truth to be inextricably tied to eternal life, knowing and living (or dying) according to the truth is the greatest good. And consequently, a short life with knowledge of the truth is better than a long life in ignorance of it.

I also reject the premise that truth is unknowable/unimportant. Difference between our perspectives, though, is that I believe spiritual truth can be discerned intuitively, and one doesn’t need to belong to any particular religion to discern it.

I believe that to some extent (natural law, and all that), but I don’t know if I would call it “spiritual truth.” What exactly do you mean by that, if I may ask?

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RicOlie_2 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

RicOlie_2 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

RicOlie_2 said:

Because eternal salvation is a lot more important than 80-or-so years on earth.

This mindset is why traditional Christianity is distasteful to me. It places evangelism over compassion for your fellow man, and it paints God as an asshole; the former is dehumanizing, the latter frankly blasphemous.

I understand where you’re coming from, but why is life more important than knowing truth? Not that all possible precautions shouldn’t be taken to prevent the loss of life before spreading the truth. Christianity rejects the modern premise that truth is either unknowable or unimportant, and because Christians believe truth to be inextricably tied to eternal life, knowing and living (or dying) according to the truth is the greatest good. And consequently, a short life with knowledge of the truth is better than a long life in ignorance of it.

I also reject the premise that truth is unknowable/unimportant. Difference between our perspectives, though, is that I believe spiritual truth can be discerned intuitively, and one doesn’t need to belong to any particular religion to discern it.

I believe that to some extent (natural law, and all that), but I don’t know if I would call it “spiritual truth.” What exactly do you mean by that, if I may ask?

It’s an umbrella term I use to encompass attributes of the divine, existence’s relationship with the divine, existence’s relationship with itself, moral values, etc.

Arrivederci.

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Ah, OK. In that case, I absolutely agree with you. It’s the other details that I believe God had to, and did, tell us in order for us to know them.

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RicOlie_2 said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Ok, thanks for pointing out the clarification, and sorry for directing my comment specifically to you. I’ll change my “YOU” to point towards a larger swath of zealous missionaries, you specifically not necessarily included. (although some of your other posts do seem to fit the 2nd sentence - that is, being the lucky bearer of ultimate truth).

Thanks, and apologies, as I realize some of my posts were unclear. And I do in fact believe I am the (very) fortunate bearer of ultimate truth…I wouldn’t be Christian if I didn’t.

BTW, this is exactly why science is not a religion. Scientists do not claim to know the truth; they only argue what they believe to be the current best explanations for things, given the limitations of available measurement technology. Being proven wrong is how science advances. By contrast, religion claims absolutely to know the truth (sometimes in spite of measurements and scientific reasoning), and those truths are immutable - like axioms in a mathematical system.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars