moviefreakedmind said:
Warbler said:
moviefreakedmind said:
Jeebus said:
Warbler said:
Jeebus said:
Warbler said:
Also, I don’t think I’d feel very safe around an armed guard, I’d probably feel less safe then I would without a guard. People with guns make me nervous, not because I’m afraid of guns, but because I can never know if they’re going to use them or what they’re going to use them for.
Ok, I will give this a real response.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
I don’t know why an armed cop would make you nervous. He/she has the gun in case the worst happened. As long as you behave yourself, you don’t need to worry.
I don’t trust that all cops will be totally sane/rational. If the guards were “extremely well trained and extensively background checked,” as you said, I think I’d be less averse to the idea. That said, I think “trained and background checked” is too vague to really have a discussion about, and it seems to me that it’s rooted in a ‘perfect world’ ideal without really considering how it would be done and how feasible it is.
obviously, a lot more details would need to be ironed out before going ahead with this.
I’m not saying that a cop is going to shoot a student (though I don’t doubt that it would happen), just that people with guns put me on edge.
And when you say “behave yourself,” what does that mean?
Obey direct orders from cops
Kids? Obeying direct orders? Doesn’t compute. And again, what happens if they don’t?
I’ll tell you what happens. They get detained, pepper-sprayed, arrested, or have the shit beat out of them. At worst they may get shot to death. Every year there is a far too high number of school-aged kids that get shot to death by police.
Oh brother. You’re so prejudice against the cops, there is no point talking to you about this.
Warbler said:
Don’t try to kill any students, teachers or others
Obviously the dangerous people aren’t going to follow this rule.
Well if someone tries to kill a student or teacher or someone else, don’t you think the cop should stop that? Or should the cop just stand there and let them kill the student or teacher or someone else.
Of course I don’t think that.
Don’t carry deadly weapons
Again, the dangerous people won’t follow this rule,
no kidding. But but someone carries a deadly weapon into school, don’t you want to cops to intervene?
Yes. I don’t want them standing by every second of every day waiting for it.
but that doesn’t even matter since cops treat everybody as though they’re potentially carrying dangerous weapons.
well they could be. Small guns are easy to conceal. I once saw video where that looked normal, started pulling out guns that he had concealed. Turns out he had like 6 of them or so.
Most aren’t carrying concealed weapons.
That’s why so many unarmed people get shot to death by police. The excuse is always, “He could’ve been armed.”
and of of course it has nothing to do with ignoring repeated orders and warning from cops, right?
I didn’t know that was a capital offense these days.
It has nothing to do with people acting stupidly in an encounter and making a sudden motion like they are pulling a weapon right?
You’re right, better shoot him twenty-five times.
Yeah, you’ll say they should wait and make sure it is a gun. Trouble is they do that, and if it is a gun, they can’t stop it in time and you get a dead cop.
Here’s the thing: they signed up for this job, we didn’t. I know that sounds heartless, but I thought cops were signing up for a dangerous job in order to potentially sacrifice themselves in order to protect the innocent. The best cops have that mindset. But when you have cops with guns in your face screaming at you at the top of their lungs (ironically sounding much more like a deranged criminal than most deranged criminals do) it’s hard to know exactly how to move and what to do. I don’t like that I have to be treated like an armed and dangerous person just because someone else might be armed and dangerous, and if I get shot to death because I moved wrong, it’s my fault for provoking the cop. When a cop shoots a surrendering, unarmed person, that cop should be tried for manslaughter at least. If I pull a gun and shoot someone to death because I think they’re armed even though they aren’t, I would not get the special treatment that cops get. My poor judgement would’ve killed the unarmed person, so I should be held responsible. I don’t understand why people don’t feel the same way about cops, but since they aren’t held to the same standard I don’t want to stationed around each and every school.
Obey direct orders from cops
Why?
Because they cops giving lawful orders? Because sometimes they are giving orders in order to protect you and others? Because sometimes they know what they are doing in a dire situation where you the untrained civilian does not?
I have little faith in the training of cops. “Sometimes they know what they are doing” isn’t enough for me to just assume that they’re right no matter what.
So they don’t shoot me to death? If I’m obeying the law then their direct orders can go to hell.
What about emergency situation like an active shooter?
That’s a special circumstance that doesn’t happen often enough to justify putting an armed police officer in every school.
Sometime in such situations a cop doesn’t have time to explain why he wants you do something.
In extremely intense situations, yes. In every other situation, they do. Cops are often very intimidating, so it’s too scary to ask them for explanations.
I’m a law-abiding taxpayer.
that doesn’t exempt you from having to obey lawfully given orders.
Not all orders are lawful and not all lawfully given orders are reasonable.
The cops theoretically are here to serve people like me.
How will they serve you best? by people refusing to do what they are told in an emergency? or doing what the cops tell them and thus help the cops keep everyone safe.
Who said anything about an emergency? I understand that emergencies are different, but since most schools go through entire academic years without any emergencies, I’m assuming that most interactions with the cops won’t be during emergencies.
A lot of direct orders from cops are violations of your rights.
In your opinion. btw, such can be sorted out in a court of law.
Yep, and I’d have to go tens of thousands of dollars in debt to fight them in that court of law. And the court would most likely side with the cops anyway.
You don’t have to let them search you or your car or your property (assuming they don’t have a warrant),
actually sometimes you do. like if they hear someone screaming for help from the trunk of your car. Or if they hear shooting and then realize you smell of gun power.
That’s probable cause. They don’t usually have that.
you don’t have to answer their questions if you don’t want to, etc. etc. I don’t like this idea that the cops are our overlords that we just need to obey if we don’t want to be harmed by them.
oh ffs.
I’m right.
I don’t want cops in schools. If I had kids then I would not send them to a school that was under this police-state form of martial law, even if that meant I had to home-school them. This nonsense cannot be allowed to happen.
No, what can’t allowed to happen is more shooting like the one in Florida. But please continue to let your prejudice of cops get in the way of saving kids lives.
I desperately want to save kids’ lives. I just can tell that this is horrible idea that won’t work. Schools are huge. The shooter could just go to the part of the school where the cop isn’t stationed and do plenty of damage before the cop got there.
We need to solve this country’s gun problem the right way rather than fight it with more guns.
If the right way is to ban guns, its not going to happen. Too much opposition from the right.
Then the right is the problem. They must be defeated.
Don’t let anyone use these tragedies to turn the US into a police state.
having cops in our schools does not equal a police state.
Having them stationed throughout all of our daily life locations is, and your mindset that their use of deadly force is justified even if the suspect is unarmed is dangerously close.
It is pointless to continue with this. No one will listen.
