logo Sign In

I'm thinking lawsuit... — Page 3

Author
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: Obi-wonton
Here you go and by different scenes I meant 3 scenes were redubbed and the opening crawl changed, and by 3 weeks after the original release that is when Lucas decided to make this change. Lastly I do know that the "lost cut" was not intended to be widely distributed and was for screening. Again, spefically Obi Wan Spicoli, why do you want to argue so bad. I am trying to enlighten. I swear my posts are not read completely, skimmed and lambasted is more like by certain board members. I never said HOORAY Lucas! I never said this is the same as the present changes taking place. I am setting precedence that in fact, Lucas has always had a history of tinkering. And further Lucas can argue his vision originally was not realized and is evolving and that the Archival Edition will be the culmination of that. Why argue, just say good point...you can disagree with me, but 1. Read my entire post 2. Think of my point with reacting emotionally wanting to tear someone down. 3. write your opinion, again without tearing others down. This is the point of a message board... As for references to the "orginal" movie alone (not including the other 5 episodes) going through changes/revisions...


Despite what you may think, I don't want to argue or tear you down. And I am reading your posts quite thoroughly. I simply want accurate information placed out there. While I think it's great that you're immersing yourself in this very interesting aspect of Star Wars history, I believe you are confusing the facts. I am simply trying to set those facts straight. If you are truly trying to enlighten, I would think you would want those facts to be straight as well. We are on the same side, my friend.

Quote

Originally posted by: Obi-wonton
Alternate Versions for
Star Wars (1977)
When the original theatrical version was first released, it was simply titled Star Wars.The opening crawl was changed to "Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope" during the 1981 re-release. According to Sterling Hedgpeth, Lucasfilm film archivist: "I found a box with all the positive elements for the 'revised' opening crawl, and the assorted trim boxes are dated from October through December 1980. This, then, is consistent with the view that Episode IV: A New Hope was added for the first time to the opening crawl for the April 10, 1981 re-release."

This is correct. However, you said this earlier: "3 weeks after its release He added "A new hope" to it as the subtitle and in the scrawl, only after this change it was "episode IV"." This reads as though you are saying that Episode IV A New Hope was added 3 weeks after the release. Surely you can see that.

Quote

Originally posted by: Obi-wonton
There are at least two different prints of the original Star Wars in circulation. One definite difference between them is that the brief scene in the Death Star corridor where Chewbacca roars and "frightens" a little messenger droid is missing. This scene was NOT in the "opening day" version.

This has always been rumor and has never been substantiated. If there are prints in circulation then where are they? All I can say is prove it. But you can't. We can simply agree to disagree on this.

Quote

Originally posted by: Obi-wonton
The original version reportedly includes another difference besides the corridor scene. The actress who played Aunt Beru, Shelagh Fraser, does not have her voice in all prints of the Star Wars movies - except in the original print. Lucas dubbed it over in all subsequent prints.

This is not true. Mrs. Fraser's own voice was never in any theatrically released print of Star Wars. The mono sound mix used a different voice than what we have become accustomed to. Some people have erroneously referred to this voice as being undubbed. Some say this voice is a different voice over actress, but I believe it is just an alternate take.

Quote

Originally posted by: Obi-wonton
There are a few noticeable differences between the version shown on ITV on British television during the 1980s and early, pre-'remastered' video releases:
The sound quality of the voices heard over intercoms and radios during the Battle of Yavin is very different.
On TV, Luke says "Blast it, Wedge, where are you?" On the video he says, "Blast it, Biggs, where are you?"
On TV, Porkins' final dying scream is drowned out.
On TV, a stormtrooper searching for the droids on Tatooine says, "This one's secure, move onto the next one". On the video he says 'locked' instead of secure.

This is because the mono sound mix was shown. All of these elements can be found in the mono sound mix. I know, I have it on VHS.

Quote

Originally posted by: Obi-wonton
The 1981 re-issue contains three dialogue differences from the original. First is the appearance of the "close the blast doors" line that was silenced in the 1981 version. The 1977 version has Aunt Beru's line "All his friends have gone" places emphasis on "friends" rather than "gone" in the 1981 version. Finally, Luke shouts "Blast it, Wedge, where are you?" rather than "Blast it, Biggs, where are you?" Because Luke's head is turned to the side, it's impossible to tell which is the on-set name used. The redubbing makes Wedge's rescue of Luke more unexpected.

I guess you copied and pasted all of this from somewhere, but the first two lines make no sense. The '81 release contains a line that was silenced in the '81 version? Huh? At any rate, "close the blast doors" did appear in the original 1977 release. It was in the mono sound mix. "Blast it, Wedge" is also in the mono sound mix.

I guess my point is that none of these things were changed or altered. They are simply differences within the original 3 sound mixes. Depending on which version you saw, 70mm 6-track, Dolby Stereo, or mono, you would have experienced a slightly different film.

Scott
Greedo shoots first? Not in my DVD player.
Author
Time
OK Scott, thanks for clarifying yourself and I am cool with you. I just want to enjoy posting and reading here. I don't like to add stress or negativity there's enough of that in the world. Fans should be happy to talk on their shared passions. And yes, I definitely cut and pasted that list and certainly wasn't trying to pass it off as my own, just using a quick google search, I used a list to in fact illustatrate that even of our beloved original movie it is difficult to say, what title, year, crawl, sound mix, scenes that we are talking about. I will certainly yield to your finer knowledge of the details of the releases. I wouldn't try and debate you, but honestly this is far to much writing to simply say...

THE GUY CHANGES STUFF ALOT. HE STARTED CHANGING EARLY AND CONTINUES TOO CHANGE STUFF. HE LIKES CHANGING STUFF. HE HAS LOTS OF $$$ AND MAKES MORE $$$ EACH TIME HE CHANGES STUFF. NO ONE WILL RIGHTFULLY SUE HIM FOR CHANGING STUFF WHEN THAT IS HIS M.O. AND HE EXPRESSED EARLY ON A DESIRE TO CHANGE HIS STUFF. That's my point. That's it.

All of this wears me out. But, Scott thanks for posting and again your knowledge of the specifics is far greater and you are commended for that, and that in and of itself can be enlightening. I was trying to be "big picture" by making general points and then I feel I get torn down for little things and thats frustrating. Its like on some boards when a guy pours out his heart or writes a volume on something he researched and someone posts that he misspelled something. Its like damn. Why do that? Ultimately, I got your drift and here's to good feelings between us bro. Both our points were made. We're cool.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
Author
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: Obi-Wan Spicoli
Quote

Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
(For the record, I don't have a preference, because I've never seen the original cuts)

You've never seen the original trilogy?!?

You've just made George Lucas so happy.



Whoa... Wait.. did that come out wrong!?!? Of course I've seen the Original Trilogy...but only the SE.
What I meant was I have never seen the theatrical cuts. Because they came out ten, seven, and four years before I was born.

4

Author
Time
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

okay everyone...... stay calm.....
we're gonna need to do an emergency movie marathon...
no time can be wasted...

i'm gonna need a copy of the OT on dvd, a glowing toy lightsaber, a couple bags of Skittles and Darth Chaltab's home address.....
theres no time to waste...

don't worry Darth.... everythings gonna be okay....
youre gonna make it!
YOUR GONNA MAKE IT!!!!

"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
Author
Time
I sense a Disturbance in the force...someone...must...see...the...originals. My god man (somehow it went from Star wars to william shatner of Star Trek, although interestingly if the OT was before your time I am sure that was too). No horrid fear, just see if you can get a copy of the Anamorphics or TR-47 from Rikter. It was done right originally, before Han shoots first, there is no cartoon jabba, etc. Changes the tone of the movie. Not that we all don't like better picture and sound, but we love the first set.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
Author
Time
Chaltab, what you said came out right. We may have posted our replies incorrectly. We knew you never saw the original cuts, but our posts may have made it sound like we understood that to mean you'd never seen the OT in any version.

We still need to intervene.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
Author
Time
we're losing him!!!!!!
lol

CLEAR!
:bump bump:
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
Author
Time
I assure you all I am fine.

In fact, I would probably find the Original Cut differences as jarring as y'all do the SE's changes.
And I know--fromthese boards mostly--most of the changes in the SE. The other's I sort of picked up... visually.





And speaking of glowing toy light sabers... Man me and my friends used to play with those all the time!
Right after the Phantom Menace came out (I was eleven) me and my friends were obsessed with Jedi and actually dueled with the plastic lightsabers. Ah.. Good Times...

I have a funny story about that, actually.



4

Author
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
And speaking of glowing toy light sabers... Man me and my friends used to play with those all the time!


Some friends and I used to stage lightsaber fights with the light up ones (that came out about 1995) in the lounge of our dorm room floor. Of course, the lights were out in the room and it was night and there were huge picture windows so everyone in other floors could see it as well. I'm sure people said we were geeks, but deep down, they probably envied us.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
Author
Time
Quote

I have a funny story about that, actually.

do tell...

Bossk everyone envies people who have the ability to use a lightsabre even if it is a toy one... after all it is an elegant weapon for a more civilized age..

i hate when people try and make the lightsaber sound but just mess it all up...
they start going woosh woosh....
im like... what the hell woosh woosh???
lol
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
Author
Time
^ Like Ewan McGregor did whilst filming his sabre scenes for TPM?

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

Author
Time
did he really??
oh man... lol

i figured he could at least get the noise right..
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
Author
Time
Now that you guys mentioned it... where's the Star Wars kid? That poor kid all those people made fun of and abused, and because of that he had to go to therapy, do you guys remember him? Do you think he might be on episode 3, eh? heheh...

Hehehehe I remember seeing the "Matrix Reloaded" version of the star wars kid movie... LOL, they had him spinning like Neo did on the movie lol
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
Author
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
Quote

I have a funny story about that, actually.


do tell...


Ok. I'll tell it.

My friend "Matt" and my cousin "Dylan" were dueling. My cousin's "lightsabers" cheap Big Lots brands. He had two, so during the "match" he threw one of them at "Matt" and it distracted him long enough for "Dylan" to score the kill. Of course "Matt" said that this was cheating.

It must have upset "Matt" pretty badly, because the next morning my dad found "Matt" asleep on the couch. My dad was wearing some Jedi-robe-colored coveralls because it was cold and he was going to feed the horses or something. "Matt" was still asleep, but his eyes opened and he looked right up at my dad and said "How does it FEEL to be a Jedi Knight?"

Anyway, my dad bothered him about it for years. "Matt" later gave the explanation that he dreamt that "Dylan" had become a Jedi instead of "Matt" and "Matt" asked how it felt in the dream.

4

Author
Time
LOL!!
thats funny stuff...
i would feel pretty dumb if someone thought i was dreaming of jedi knights...
hahaha

that would have been great to get on tape...

as for the Star Wars kid... his friends who put up the tape felt really bad for what attention it got and so they created a fund raiser for him...
im not sure how it ended up going but they had a site up and everything... the money was going to go toward a new I Pod and stuff like that in hopes of making up for his 15 min of fame...
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
Author
Time
Well...this morning I waded through all four pages of discussion on the legalities of what Lucas is doing, and I would love a lawsuit to begin. As for some comments about how physical or emotional trauma is a requirement for a successful suit, wasn't there a class-action suit a few years back accusing record labels of price-fixing? Price-fixing isn't traumatic (a pain in the ass, definitely, but not tramautic), so if a lawsuit can be filed against price-fixing music corporations, can't a lawsuit be filed against Lucas? And what does it matter if he has to pay the fans or not? All we want is for him to acknowledge the original cuts and release them on DVD, and the lawsuit (or the threat thereof) might make enough noise so that Lucas and McCallum can't stay deaf to it any longer.
Now, we need a lawyer...a lawyer that also happens to be a Star Wars fan. Anyone know anybody that knows somebody?

Also, I think, as someone mentioned, that a number of us should pepper the Jedi Council on the official site with the same question until they answer us. Which of the council members would be best to ask?
My Blog
Currently Reading: Shatterpoint, by Matthew Stover
Unrepentent Nader Voter
Author
Time
The thing is, price-fixing is blatantly illegal. What Lucas has done is in a much grayer area. The films are in fact the Star Wars trilogy, there's no getting around that. The issue here is that he has neglected to qualify that title with something like "The Special Editions" or some other such subtitle to inform people these are not the films they remember. The difficulty comes from the fact that these films are George Lucas's intellectual property, which basically means he can release them in whatever form he likes. While you might be able to successfully argue that he is misrepresenting his product, it's going to be a very hard sell, and even after the fact, unless you can show damages from such, the chances of winning are slim. With price-fixing there are damages, and those damages can be measured monetarily, not so in this case. Another thing to keep in mind is that Lucas has successfully released both TPM and AOTC in altered formats without having to retitle them for DVD release. It could very well be that the legal issues surrounding fraudulent misrepresentation do not extend to the realm of intellectual property. In which case, there's not a blasted thing we can do. Regardless though, it seems to me a lawsuit would hurt the cause a lot more than it would help. The lawsuit can't get the OT released on DVD, but it sure as hell can piss Lucas off enough to never release it. He already says he'll never release it, but we've seen George change his mind before, let's not give him any reason to set that decission in carbonite.

Visit my Webcomic! Nonstop Pop

Author
Time
So I picked-up the 'new & improved' Star Wars Insider Magazine (still sucks) today, and saw an article about the up coming DVD release. In the same page, 2 colums over, they have an article about the release date of Episode III and at the end they decide to put the release dates of all the other films. Ep. IV - '77, V-'80 etc. OK, so my point is this - I think it's kinda funny that the 'classic trilogy DVD set' is being shown along side of the original release dates. Not to mention everything I have seen about the packaging, posters, etc, all use the original classic artwork. Nothing near the special editions. Some of it is even concept art before the original release! A little psychological marketing tactic here? What do you think. I will upload a picture of the magazine page when I figure out how to.
Author
Time
What is your overall opinion of the magazine?
Author
Time
Eh, it's pretty nice.

But the Hyperspace crap is making me wanna cancel it. I think they are implying that they are even going to merge Insider subscribers into Hpyerspace the way they've been doing the vice versa.

Either way, it won't be very interesting after EpIII comes out.

I'm kinda tired of paying that much for it. So I'm gonna let my subscription run out.

I'll have issues 50-77. 27 issues.

My stance on revising fan edits.

Author
Time
It's just way too expensive here in Canada. ($8.99 an issue). It was good a few years ago before they changed the format and Wizards of the Coast took over. It has been changed again, so I checked it out. Still don't like it.
Author
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: Mr.Coffee
It's just way too expensive here in Canada. ($8.99 an issue). It was good a few years ago before they changed the format and Wizards of the Coast took over. It has been changed again, so I checked it out. Still don't like it.


Is it just me or has Wizards of the Coast crippled any piece of Star Wars licensing they've gotten their hands on? I mean, look at the TCG, and now the Insider. It makes me sick, and it also bothers me like Lucas is trying to make it seem like the old original trilogy is the one being released. Damn, I wish we could pressure him into releasing the originals; it just pisses me off feeling so powerless.

My Blog
Currently Reading: Shatterpoint, by Matthew Stover
Unrepentent Nader Voter
Author
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: Hal 9000
I would give anything to have five minutes alone with George Lucas.

Just five minutes.


No offense, I know what you mean, but it sounds so wrong.