logo Sign In

Should Wedge have been tried for cowardice?

Author
Date
Author
Time
Post link

A bit of an off-shoot from the 'should Chewy/Leia get a medal' discussions...


During the Death Star trench run it is pretty clear that everything hinges on Luke, Wedge and Biggs making it to the exhaust port and delivering the torpedo that'll cause a chain reaction in the Death Star, and save the Rebellion from destruction on Yavin.

Now fair play to Biggs - he did his job and paid the price - like many other Rebel pilots.


Wedge gets hit a little later in the Trench Run - and apparently 'can't stay with you (to Luke)' - instead of hitting the air brakes and smashing into Vader's TIE - and therefore 'taking one for the team' - whilst leaving Luke a free shot at the exhaust port, he decides to bail out out of the fight completely - leaving the 3 Imperial TIEs a free shot at Luke!!!

To me I'm not sure how he could face anyone in the Rebellion again - surely he'd be known as the one who bottled out when it mattered - and didn't even fancy sacrificing himself for his beliefs in their greatest need?


Wedge is a wuss


A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
‘How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

Author
Time
Post link
Luke was the one who gave him the order to pull out of the trench. Luke was likely trying to minimize losses for the alliance in that situation.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

Author
Time
Post link
Am I right that there were 4 ships that got out at the end of the attack in ANH - the Millennium Falcon, 2 X-Wings and a Y-Wing?

Now, we know about the Falcon and the 2 X-Wings (Luke & Wedge). Who was in the Y-Wing?!

I say they've got some explaining to do!
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
Author
Time
Post link
Yeah, who the hell was in that damned Y-wing? And what were they doing?

And about the Wedge thing. I donno. If I was in his position I would leave as ordered too. But Wedge says "I'm hit, I can't stay with you." and then Luke says "Get clear Wedge, you can't do any more good back there." It seems like Wedge was trying to bail even before Luke gave him the order to leave.

And this has always bothered me because Wedge is just an awesome character. I love him, man. But he did seem to want to chicken out after he was hit and when Luke gave the order his "Sorry." didn't sound like he was all that sorry.

Far be it for me to criticize someone in a combat zone when one's life is at stake. Who knows, I might have done the same thing, but Wedge did seem pretty adimate about wanting to get out of there. I donno.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
Author
Time
Post link
The other surviving ships were probably doing their job, keeping the bulk of the TIE fighters busy. Nobody on the Death Star, (except maybe Tarkin's aide!) had a clue the Rebels were trying to hit the exhaust port.
Even if Wedge could somehow slam the brakes in front of the pursuing TIE's, they would probably blast him before he could hit and a pilot of Vader's skill would avoid a collision anyway. Wedge saved Luke's bacon once in the battle already. If he was faking a malfunction, he was taking a big chance he wasn't going to have to return to base and have a mechanic look over his X-Wing. (Or "ask" his Artoo unit what the problem was!)
Wedge was certainly no wuss on Hoth or in the second Death Star attack.
Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
Post link
Good points, SilverWook!

It makes Wedge grow through the movies, too. He's cautious in ANH, a bulldog in ESB and takes the reins by ROTJ!

My God! Character development!!!!
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
Author
Time
Post link
Didn't Wedge get shot before he left? So his fighter was damaged, he couldn't keep up with Luke anymore, so either he leaves, gets left behind and quickly blown up by Vader and company, or Luke has to slow down so Wedge can keep up, probably getting both of them destroyed and Luke doesn't blow the Death Star up before rebel base is blown up. He really can't do anything but leave.

Who the Y-Wing was is a better question.
Author
Time
Post link
Was the y-wing a SE addition? I guess it might have gotten lost, been part of a con... no, Maybe busy fighting some ties somewhere while luke was in the trench.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
Author
Time
Post link
And about the Wedge thing. I donno. If I was in his position I would leave as ordered too. But Wedge says "I'm hit, I can't stay with you." and then Luke says "Get clear Wedge, you can't do any more good back there." It seems like Wedge was trying to bail even before Luke gave him the order to leave.


He's not trying to bail. Luke had ordered his element to go in full throttle ... "That oughta keep those fighters off our backs." After sustaining a hit, Wedge was unable to maintain that speed; he couldn't stay with Luke. (Evidently, the jamming fields around the Death Star made space a resistive medium.) Luke figured -- rightly or wrongly -- that Wedge couldn't do anything useful with a broken fighter and told him to clear the trench. We're not really sure what Wedge did after that -- the TIEs were at least matching Luke's X-wing for speed, so he was unable to pursue and shoot at them. Returning to the main group to dogfight would be a dubious proposition. Dropping his ordnance on the Death Star surface would've been satisfying, but not terribly useful. A direct assault on the superlaser could be even more satisfying, but less useful. Basically, imagine what an untrenched Wedge would be doing, and that's what he did. Or go to the C-canon. Stackpole probably wrote something about Wedge noticing the emergency exhaust port was closed and opening it for Luke after landing on the Death Star and a tense firefight with several battalions of stormtroopers. (Just kidding, I like Stackpole -- even his DS2 retcon.)

Incidentally, Keyan Farlander was the Y-Wing pilot.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
Author
Time
Post link
"Luke was the one who gave him the order to pull out of the trench. Luke was likely trying to minimize losses for the alliance in that situation. "

Well, yes....that's what was going through Luke's mind, but as for Wedge...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mebejedi/Wedge.gif

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
Must have been a tense time while they were waiting. All your best pilots bite it trying to get into and along the trench that just may have an exhaust port at the end of it, as long as the plans they have are the final ones and no revisions were made in final constructions...like a 2 metre x 2 metre piece of mild steel plate welded there. Then you all stand around hoping some wet-behind-the-ears kid who spends his days bombing rats while not doing minor chores on the farm, takes time out from giving orders to the Rebellion's top-gun pilots to pull out and go back home cause they cant help. The other Rebellion must have been asking one another just who the heck the kid was ..." Ohh, he went with the last Jedi onto the Deathstar. There are no more Jedi now. " " Ohh. Great. Hold me tight."
Author
Time
Post link
What I don't understand is why didn't Wedge loop back around the TIEs and at least provide supressive fire on them while Luke finishes his run? His propulsion systems seemed to be working just fine and I assume that the problem was with his rear deflector shield.
Author
Time
Post link
Good Lord, that comic was hilarious.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

Author
Time
Post link
You know what, this is going to be changed in yet-another-revision of the no-longer-original trilogy when we'll see Wedge's CGI X-Wing making a wild turn and strafing Vader's attack group. No need to include Han's character after that, so next..... oops! I'm going too far this time

Looks that at least some of you know a bit about starfighters in Star Wars - Wedge was hit in his engines when he lost rear shields, this way he was loosing speed (even assuming that R2 units temporarily overcharged their thrusters for the purpose of trench run) and could not go on with Luke.

What is funny, though, is that he *asked* Luke for permission. Luke was also leading the 3-fighter element. I don't know much about the chain of command in that pitful rebel band but I expected that "Red 2" (Wedge) would be the second in command after "Red Leader". Luke was "Red 5".

[translation for non-geeks: Lucas' movies are messed up, as usual]

LOL, guys, c'mon: Wedge is really a cool-yet-quiet character, sort of a real hero in contrast to those who always seek the glory and fame. And he's the only thing I envy Ewan McGregor
I saw the original theatrical release of the Old Trilogy on the big screen and I'm proud of it...
How did I accomplish that (considering my age) is my secret...
Author
Time
Post link
After reading a lot of this topic, I, too, was tempted to keelhaul Wedge after this, but Scruffy's post made me realize that I'd been misinterpreted Wedge's line all this time.

"I'm hit! I can't stay with you."

All my life, I'd thought that, "I can't stay with you," meant, "I have to leave." But instead, it means, "My ship can't keep up with your ship anymore," and that makes a lot more sense. It also makes Luke's line, "You can't do any more good back there," make more sense.

But RRS brings up something I've always wondered. Why the hell did Red Leader put Luke in charge? I know that Wedge and Biggs were pretty wet behind the ears as well, but they at least had to have been there a tiny bit longer than Luke (although you have to admit that Biggs had to have "jumped ship" pretty quickly to be there by the time Luke arrives) and have some kind of seniority. Scruffy, do you have any explanations for this? Did Luke somehow prove himself in combat up to that point more so than Biggs and Wedge?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
Best I can come up with ...

a) In the Radio Drama, Luke wows everyone on the simulator, so he gets put in charge of Biggs and Wedge. Which doesn't make too much sense; just because you're good at your job doesn't mean you're good at leading other people in their jobs. Luke's experience blowing up womp rats might make him a fine pilot, but it doesn't mean he'd be good at commanding other people and leading an attack. Although Luke does seem to know what he's doing when things get hot.

b) There's a cut scene (maybe uncut in the SE, who knows) in which Red Leader talks about Anakin Skywalker and what a great pilot he was. If you smash your head into a wall a few times, it makes sense that Red Leader would promote Luke because of his father.

c) Either of the above, combined with Biggs's remark that Luke was the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim. Biggs is an Academy graduate, so he has at least some say-so. Though I'm not entirely sure why he'd want to subordinate himself to Luke. Even in all the cut scenes between Luke and Biggs, it's obvious who's the alpha dog, and it's not Luke.

d) Leia pulled some strings. She was probably the moral and financial backer of the Yavin Rebel cell, and for whatever reason she decided Luke should be boss of a couple people. Chalk it up to "Force impressions" or that wonderful sibling lust they had going for them.

As for Wedge replacing Han in the trench attack, I'm all for it. It's always bothered me how Solo, unprovoked, fires on Vader. It makes him seem like a murdering pirate instead of the patient, tolerant, friendly hero that he is.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
Author
Time
Post link
I was thinking about Red Leader's comments about Luke's daddy, but I decided not to list them. They were (albeit very awkwardly) cut out of the scene. Plus, like you said, I logically didn't think it would be too relevant, and I'm not up to banging my head against the wall to test the theory.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Scruffy
a) In the Radio Drama, Luke wows everyone on the simulator, so he gets put in charge of Biggs and Wedge. Which doesn't make too much sense; just because you're good at your job doesn't mean you're good at leading other people in their jobs. Luke's experience blowing up womp rats might make him a fine pilot, but it doesn't mean he'd be good at commanding other people and leading an attack. Although Luke does seem to know what he's doing when things get hot.


Well, a good performance would have given Luke priority in attacking the Death Star, but you're right about the command issue. Perhaps Wedge should have lead the group but with Luke in the lead. Unless, of course, all of Luke's group were brand new recruits and so you had newbies commanding newbies.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

Author
Time
Post link
Except we know ... at least we think ... that Biggs is an Academy graduate. Academies usually churn out trained leaders. So it's not like they're all newbies and Luke won the rock-paper-scissors tournament.

Best I can come up with is that Luke proved in the simulator that he was among the best they had at precision bombing and, like you said, that gave him priority in the third echelon to attack the exhaust port. Wedge and Biggs were assigned not as underlings, but as bodyguards. Luke didn't have de jure command authority over them, but his status as the designated shooter gave him de facto authority. We can see Biggs and Wedge questioning his orders ("Are you sure we can pull out in time?" "Are you sure the computer can hit it?" "What about that tower?"), which is consistent with my theory. They're trying to keep the whiz kid alive long enough to hit the exhaust port, and it's painfully clear to them that maybe the kid can hit the target, but he knows almost nothing about staying alive in a starfighter.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
Author
Time
Post link
"All my life, I'd thought that, "I can't stay with you," meant, "I have to leave." But instead, it means, "My ship can't keep up with your ship anymore," and that makes a lot more sense. It also makes Luke's line, "You can't do any more good back there," make more sense."

He still could have fallen back, and taken out a Tie from behind. It's not like they followed him out of the trench. Hell, Vader probably thought it was done on purpose to draw fighters away (which, I might add, worked later in ROTJ.)

"As for Wedge replacing Han in the trench attack, I'm all for it. It's always bothered me how Solo, unprovoked, fires on Vader. It makes him seem like a murdering pirate instead of the patient, tolerant, friendly hero that he is."

LOL...shooting from behind, I might add. Hell, he even enjoyed shooting down the Tie. Such a brigand!

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
Don't worry, for the '07 SE, there will be a cut to a wide shot, where we will clearly see the TIE's rear-mounted laser cannon firing on the Falcon and missing (as the Falcon dodges awkwardly) BEFORE Han fires on it.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
All my life, I'd thought that, "I can't stay with you," meant, "I have to leave." But instead, it means, "My ship can't keep up with your ship anymore," and that makes a lot more sense. It also makes Luke's line, "You can't do any more good back there," make more sense.
That does make more sense, but I think something along the lines of "I'm loosing speed!" or "I'm hit! I can't keep up!" would have alleviated any doubt in Wedge's honor.


although you have to admit that Biggs had to have "jumped ship" pretty quickly to be there by the time Luke arrives

Yeah, considering that Luke shows up 5 days later since he last saw his best friend. I bet Biggs was thinking "Damn, that kid works fast. Wait, why are you here?... Oh, dude. I'm so sorry."

Originally posted by: Ozkeeper
Then you all stand around hoping some wet-behind-the-ears kid who spends his days bombing rats...

Let's not forget how huge those rats are! I mean, 2 meters?! Good god, I'm 2 meters tall!! Talk about bullseying rats! Luke was bullseying kanga-fucking-roos!!

Glad I don't live on Tatooine.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Scruffy
Wedge and Biggs were assigned not as underlings, but as bodyguards. Luke didn't have de jure command authority over them, but his status as the designated shooter gave him de facto authority. We can see Biggs and Wedge questioning his orders ("Are you sure we can pull out in time?" "Are you sure the computer can hit it?" "What about that tower?"), which is consistent with my theory. They're trying to keep the whiz kid alive long enough to hit the exhaust port, and it's painfully clear to them that maybe the kid can hit the target, but he knows almost nothing about staying alive in a starfighter.


Good points.

Before the simulator, there are also the TIEs that Luke had shot down from the Falcon. Before he seats himself in his X-wing, his helmet has already got the markings to show it off. I assume those TIEs had put him in high esteem among the other pilots.
Author
Time
Post link
But then again, I'm sure it's a lot easier to shoot down TIEs when you don't have to worry about flying a ship as well.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.