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The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have! — Page 7

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Originally posted by: lordjedi
Has anybody stopped to wonder why Lucasfilm, with the resources they had access to in 1993, would bother using a laserdisc rip when they probably have access to the digital masters? If Lucas is anything like me, I'm sure he didn't just make a master laserdisc and then throw away the uncompressed digital master. He probably saved the entire thing in extremely hi-res on servers somewhere. Wouldn't it be far easier to go back to that master than it would be to capture a laserdisc rip and then remaster that? Sure, that's what we fans do for our preservation edits, but that's all we have access to. I think it's a safe assumption that LFL has access to digital masters that can be used to make a very nice looking DVD.

This would also explain the whole 1993 comment. As has been said, it's not going to look as good as the 2004 DVDs because they're not going to have Lowry do any color correction on it. I imagine they'll take the digital master from 1993 and stick it on a DVD. And even if they don't, it can't look any worse than what we already have.


That's EXACTLY what we're saying it will be - and people still have the nerve to bitch about that.

There's a saying where I come from that we would all do well to remember:

BEGGARS CAN'T BE CHOOSERS.
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Looking at your last few posts, I can't help but think: "can we please start acting civil around here again? I never in my life expected an announcement with such great potential as this one to turn people *here* into blithering idiotic assholes".

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Wow, I go away for a weekend and look what happens. A lot of bickering and such. However, I think the "whiner patrol" are the ones who have really gotten out of hand and lost all civility. They're the ones in the huff telling people to "fuck off" and "be grateful." It seems to me that the ones who are "complaining" are simply debating what the details of this set are going to be. True, there are some real complainers (after reading through 3 consecutive pages of text-heavy posting, I'm not even going to try to remember who you are or what you said). There are so many possiblities and so many points of everybody's opinion that I agree and disagree with. I'm not too demanding. The only thing I truly demand is that it truly be the original. I want no matte lines erased, no changes inserted. That's what they promised. I'd prefer all three of the original mixes. I'd settle for any one of them. And I want a good picture. I don't know what most of the technical terms mean, but I want a good DVD image that's at least somewhat better than any existing version. Jim Ward claims that they're good. They don't have to be completely pristine or crystal clear. Just something that looks nice and looks like they put any kind of effort into it. My hope is that zombie is right. But we don't know yet. You can keep your brand new 5.1 mixes or whatever the heck you're talking about.

Branching off topic, though, what I hate most about the whiner patrol is how they always tout the argument about, "Well, so what if it's screwed up? They'll fix it next time around for the (insert next anniversary here) release." Is that the dumbest logic ever? If I buy something, I want it to be good, and if it's not good, I should be monetarily compensated for it. I shouldn't get relief in the fact that I can just shell out another $70 two years down the road to get everything fixed. What motivation does Lucasfilm have to get it "right" if fans just have this shrugging, forgiving attitude and willingness to shell out for their next incomplete effort. If we want a good product the first time around, we have to demand it! We have to stop being so willing to buy every attempt!

So, to the boards, I agree with CO. This is our Empire Strikes Back era. We have to band together more strongly than ever, or else we risk falling apart. By all means, keep speculating what these releases are going to be, but don't go at each other's throats over it. I have been a member of this board for almost a year, and I certainly don't want Jay to dismantle the whole thing because he can't stand to see so much fighting. So everyone could stand to calm down... especially the people who are hypocritically bitching about whiners and complainers.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Well, I'd like to counter Neil's unnamed sources with one that's definitely come through in the past:

We all remember Darth First, correct? That's the username of the person who essentially leaked any and all details about the 2004 set in August of that year, long before anyone knew what was really going on. Darth First pretty obviously has some kind of position inside the DVD industry as he got his copies around that August.

Darth First has stated they are NOT using the D2 masters, and are sourcing from film elements to make this DVD

Take from that what you will. He does say that's what he's heard from his people, but First has proved pretty reliable at this. He COULD be misled by these "sources" however, just as Neil's sources could be RIGHT. But still, thought I'd throw that out there, if only to muddy the waters even more

But now there's a proven source of DVD news stating that these DVD's are being sourced from film elements, not Laserdisc masters.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
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Originally posted by: The Bizzle
Well, I'd like to counter Neil's unnamed sources with one that's definitely come through in the past:

We all remember Darth First, correct? That's the username of the person who essentially leaked any and all details about the 2004 set in August of that year, long before anyone knew what was really going on. Darth First pretty obviously has some kind of position inside the DVD industry as he got his copies around that August.

Darth First has stated they are NOT using the D2 masters, and are sourcing from film elements to make this DVD

Take from that what you will. He does say that's what he's heard from his people, but First has proved pretty reliable at this. He COULD be misled by these "sources" however, just as Neil's sources could be RIGHT. But still, thought I'd throw that out there, if only to muddy the waters even more

But now there's a proven source of DVD news stating that these DVD's are being sourced from film elements, not Laserdisc masters.


This goes back to what I heard about the films being brought in for washing at a lab sometime last year. I've since confirmed that my friend personally saw canisters for Empire and some of Jedi while working there. Real deals and not Special Editions.
There's good in the Original Trilogy, and it's worth fighting for.
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
http://www.myspace.com/harlock415
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It's a little strange that the press release on the sw.com has changed 3 times (or is it more?) since it's first appearance on 4th May - with info disappearing/reappearing about the possible content/versions of this release.

Though, having said that, it's certainly got the fans talking... interesting publicity - or perhaps not everyone 'high up' in LFL knows what's going on?


More changes to come?




A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
‘How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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Originally posted by: TheCassidy
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Yeah, because you can really enjoy the story, characters, emotion, and fun when you can't see or hear anything well.

Hey everyone - check out the drama queen!

C'mon, you can't be serious. It's a fucking DVD, not a Zoetrope.


I love drama. That's why I love Star Wars. That's also why I used a winking smiley face in that text of mine you quoted.


Originally posted by: zombie84
Jim Ward said the video will be from 1993 and inferior to the Lowry-restored 2004 release. Duh!! How does that translate to "we are taking the Laserdisk masters and putting them on dvd"? Were that the case, would it not make sense to use the 1995 THX release??


Amen. A lot of people are being totally illogical to assume that Ward meant a Laserdisk master. Lucasfilm is rolling in money and could easilly do far better. Still, I'm more looking forward to a high definition release of the original films. These DVD releases will be fun in the meantime.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: oojason
It's a little strange that the press release on the sw.com has changed 3 times (or is it more?) since it's first appearance on 4th May - with info disappearing/reappearing about the possible content/versions of this release.

Though, having said that, it's certainly got the fans talking... interesting publicity - or perhaps not everyone 'high up' in LFL knows what's going on?


More changes to come?


Perhaps they haven't gotten everything finalized yet for this release. So things may not yet be finalized. Or they are trying to minimize the griping and complaining done by some people.
I'm happy to hear that this could be a new clean-up and not simply a laserdisc dump. That would be better. Darth First was right about the last DVD set and is credible, so I do feel better.
Now if we could only get the alternate audio tracks....
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Originally posted by: oojason
It's a little strange that the press release on the sw.com has changed 3 times (or is it more?) since its first appearance...


Just like the films themselves. More of Lucasfilms' incessant tinkering.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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I saw this posted on theforce.net this morning, which confirms many posts above:

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MF.com's DarthFirst posted recently: "They're not using the 93 master - there is restoration happening to bring the original theatrical versions up to a level of quality that is expected from Lucasfilm releases."
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If this is true, then I will be dancing in the streets on September 12th. If this set is great quality and the original edition of SW via 1977 version, I will give alittle love to Lucas. So what if he is doing it for money, so what that we have to buy the SE, I can finally watch my beloved movies in great quality on DVD, and I don't have to give a rats ass about any changes in the future.

I am now going from cautiously optimistic to optimistic. I really think we are going to get our wish guys, keep positive.
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Everyone who keeps saying "LD master from 1993" still haven't answered why the LD master from 1993 would include "the title crawl to Star Wars before it was known as Episode IV."

I have the widescreen laserdisc of Star Wars from 1993 and a laserdisc player. Why would I want to buy a DVD that is no different?
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I've seen several posts hoping for "Dolby Digital 5.1" for the 70mm 6-track sound.

The original release of "Star Wars" in 1977 used 6 magnetic tracks on the 70mm prints. Those six tracks were left, center, right, surround, and two low frequency effect channels (below 200hz). Since our home theater systems are designed for only one low frequecy effects channel, Dolby Digital 4.1 is the best solution. The two low frequency channels would need to be combined to the .1, and the LCRS channels would remain original. Going to 5.1 would either involve duplicating the mono surround to both left and right surround channels, which is simply redundant data (which might require additional compression, lowering the quality on the DVD), or having a sound engineer create a new mix for the surround channels, which would not be the way it was presented originally.

Dolby 70mm 6-track with stereo surrounds was first used on "Apocalypse Now," released in 1979. I'm not sure if either "The Empire Strikes Back" or "Return of the Jedi" used the stereo surround setup. If they did, then a Dolby Digital 5.1 track would be appropriate for them.

"Tora, Tora, Tora" was released on DVD in Dolby Digital 4.1.
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And is one of many Fox titles with a 4.1 track, including the 2-disc Big Trouble in Little China, which boasts a 4.1 dts track. If an "accurate" 6-track reproduction were to be released, it would have to be 4.1.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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The 4.1 mix out of the 6 channel matrix arguments makes sense. I guess I didn't know exactly what channels the 6 channel matrixed mix were. Its not that I was wanting a 5.1 mix just to have 5.1, but something that has the 70mm track sound mix. Especially for ESB, where there are some major audio differences. I think the 70mm/35mm mix for SW was the same, and I don't remember what they did for ROTJ.
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Personally, I want the 35mm for Empire. Thats the one I know, and thats the one I love best.
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DarthFirst just posted at MF.com again!

http://www.millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=6705

my source doesn't know much either, only what I've already said. I would assume that they'd be using the same masters for the Disc 1 of each of these re-releases, meaning they can either get rid of existing overstocks of the current discs (which may have been a motivating factor behind this release), or replicate cheaply off masters that are already sitting there.

It's still early in the game. What a great summer to look forward too
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Originally posted by: 20th Century Mark
Personally, I want the 35mm for Empire. Thats the one I know, and thats the one I love best.


Yes, that is the one I remember too, and would be very upset not to have it. Its just that there were several audio differences in the 70mm 6 channel matrixed mix, and I'd love to have those available on this release as an alternate audio track.
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I think the trilogy will be fine. I know I posted before in here, but my complaint was that they'll be extras discs. Actually it's kinda funny. It would be interesting to see how the 2004s compare with the OUT in a set together...but almost certainly this set is for those who want the OUT. People who would want the others have had ample opportunity to already. These "extras" will have to be the most anticipated extras on DVDs ever, lol. Can't wait to watch them, even tho I already have the ones OCP did such a good job on this past year. Just watched Jedi earlier tonight.

Yay Star Wars! Yay September!
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Personally, I want the 35mm for Empire. Thats the one I know, and thats the one I love best.

I know, but I really wish we had 70mm too, because the music isn't so chopped up.
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I've thought of another worry. This isn't bitching or whining, so don't even start with me. It came to me when I thought about how much more noticeable the garbage mattes around the TIE fighters were on DVD then they'd ever been before. What if the whole reason they're releasing them side by side is to "restore" the picture on the originals so much that the matte lines and garbage mattes stick out like sore thumbs, hundreds of times more than they ever were originally. I stand by wanting them there, as opposed to them being digitally cleared up, but they were hardly ever noticeable to me. But what if they purposely make them stand out so much with DVD technology that you can't help but think, "Wow. Look at the inferior technology." I mean, that's exactly what they want us to think. This is just a little conspiracy theory on my part, but you never know. Just something to throw out there.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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WOW,

As I have been away for awhile I see that somethings have changed and others.....well, errrrrrr............moving right along. It is nice to see all of you regulars and welcome to all of those who are new. This really is a great place for Star Wars discussion as is proven in this thread alone. And that is my lead in to what I wanted to say.........

Over the time that I have been here I have seen so many posts of different caliber and substance. All of them with a unique outlook and opininon, some shared and some not, but always people willing to take what they've seen, heard, or read and bring it into the whole. That is what makes this site so diverse and fantastic. The one thing that sometimes seems to slip away from us IS those differences. With the news of this DVD set coming from the Lucasfilms camp it would seem that what little they do say again causes fever in all camps Star Wars with here being NO exception.

I am a long time fan and have waited for this day to come. I signed the petition like we all have done, because I believe in the "magic" of the Original Trilogy. It IS what made this whole thing possible. I am fortunate enough to own some of the finest "labour of love" LD transfers in this galaxy and I also own retail material to augment my fascination with Star Wars. I appreciate ALL of it. If George Lucas wants to do what he wants to do, that is his perogative, but if it comes at the expense of his own creative origins then he needs a huge time-out with himself. He may have gotten lost but US fans NEVER should. We are supposed to be on the SAME side even though our opinioins are guided by our individual and unique natures.

This new DVD set is a blessing regardless of how it is packaged. It is a STEP in the right direction. I may not agree with the way it seems to be presented to us as fans but I will not snub my nose at progress. Without it, all we have is what you see and read in these posts......conjecture, speculation, emotion, and NO actual DVD release. I am sure that most all of you will agree that at least it's something till something more comes along. Beggars should never be choosers, and WE, should NEVER be beggars, just fans coming together for a common cause that we ALL believe in......the MAGIC of the Original Trilogy!!!!!!

This is just my humble opinion and in NO way reflects the views of management, their staff, the Jawas and/ or Stormtroopers they contract out for all their "dirty" work.....

Have a nice day all of you!!!!

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
But what if they purposely make them stand out so much with DVD technology that you can't help but think, "Wow. Look at the inferior technology." I mean, that's exactly what they want us to think. This is just a little conspiracy theory on my part, but you never know. Just something to throw out there.

I'm sorry to say, It's crossed my mind also. I hope that's not the case.

Now that someone else is worrying about it, that means I wasn't crazy for worrying about it after all - crap, now I really have to worry about it.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I've thought of another worry. This isn't bitching or whining, so don't even start with me. It came to me when I thought about how much more noticeable the garbage mattes around the TIE fighters were on DVD then they'd ever been before. What if the whole reason they're releasing them side by side is to "restore" the picture on the originals so much that the matte lines and garbage mattes stick out like sore thumbs, hundreds of times more than they ever were originally. I stand by wanting them there, as opposed to them being digitally cleared up, but they were hardly ever noticeable to me. But what if they purposely make them stand out so much with DVD technology that you can't help but think, "Wow. Look at the inferior technology." I mean, that's exactly what they want us to think. This is just a little conspiracy theory on my part, but you never know. Just something to throw out there.


Well I don't know if we need to worry about that. If I recall correctly you can see some of the mattes on the 2001: A Space Odyssey DVD and they're not disctracting or overwhelming and that disc looks great, especially for a movie from 1968. So take a deep breath everyone, my guess is that everything will be alright. After all if GL makes this a spite release just to make a point and pisses all the fans off, even he must realise that the world would surely end. And then he wouldn't be able to re-release the discs again next year

Cheers!
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"After all if GL makes this a spite release just to make a point and pisses all the fans off, even he must realise that the world would surely end. And then he wouldn't be able to re-release the discs again next year."

That just may be some of the method behind the madness.......just food for thought anyways...heehee
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The problem is you guys percieve an adversarial relationship where there isn't one. If there was a fight or a spiteful battle between the two sides (Lucas vs The Fans) then I could see him trying to "prove" something to people with this release. But there isn't. I know you guys often SEE it that way because you've spent a long time trying to get what you want and you kept hearing "No." but I don't really think this is a case of trying to slyly "prove a point" to the fans who have been clamoring for this set. this is to APPEASE the fans clamoring for the set. Any adversarial bent is being applied by the fans in this case, not necessarily the company. I know I'm going to get crap for that, but I seriously doubt Lucasfilm is spending the time and money to try and clean up those original film elements for transfer to DVD just to pull a "nyah nyah" on the small contingency of fans who would be "proved wrong" by this release. That number is small, and with a company like Lucasfilm, I'm pretty sure that getbacks aren't even anywhere on the menu.

It's just a case of being stuck in this one-way battle too long that you just assume the other side really is fighting back against you directly. These are the leftover vestiges of that.

I wouldn't sweat it.
The Best Show You've Never Heard