Which one do you like more? The Prequels or the Sequels? And why? — Page 3

JadedSkywalker said:

Other than enjoying the last third of the movie and Sidious machinations and liking the scene in the opera house, you won’t find me defending Revenge of the Sith. Each of the prequels has its moments which are difficult to positively describe without knocking them down for bad dialogue in the scripts, and I mean it’s some of the worst writing I’ve ever read in a screenplay. The films seem to be chock a block full of special effects, and characters seem to take a back seat to them.

With further development of the screenplays and a good dialogue writer, perhaps the films could have been better. But they would always be compared to the OT and to be found wanting, because their style is different, they aren’t that swashbuckling fun adventure movie Star Wars 1977 is. In media res. No they are too bogged down in space politics. Like in Phantom Menace Space taxes.

There’s only like a couple scenes that talk about these things and most of them are them barely doing that in TPM. The longest where it’s the most talked about is in the Senate later on in the movie and even that’s only a few minutes I think. And I think that scene mostly works writing wise, with some criticisms.

Even the politics are barely done for the majority of the PT. There’s many scenes, yes I think, but those scenes aren’t that long I think.

The high style dialogue and wooden politicking seem to be a deliberate choice. The Jedi sitting around in their councils, Palpatine sitting in his Chancellors office. It is rather boring.

for Space Opera serial there is very little Jedi action in the trilogy beyond the 3 lightsaber duels. Way too much dialogue standing around and talking. I didn’t write it. I would have had them visit lots of different cultures and planets getting into adventures, or the films would have been about the Clone Wars and Anakin and Obi’s relationship. And there would have been some Coruscant but way less of it. Plus I don’t see the Jedi as politicians or afraid of attachments. I completely reject the prequel version of the Jedi.

In TPM Obi and Qui fight droids more than once, Qui has a quick duel with Maul before escaping. There’s two space fights, more or less.

In AOTC, there’s a chase, Obi and Jango fight, Obi and Jango space chase battle, there’s the huge arena fight with a lot of Jedi and droids and right after that the battle between the separatist droids and the clones. Anakin and Obi fight Dooku, Yoda fights Dooku.

In ROTS, there’s the whole opening, which includes space battle, Obi and Anakin fighting droids, Obi and Anakin fighting Dooku, them fighting more droids, the crash. Then there’s the wookie droid battle, Obi fights Grevious, Mace fights Palpatine, Anakin and Obi fight and Palpatine and Yoda fight.

I would have had more ground battles and space battles as well.

How many more did you want?

I would have liked to see more of Obi-Wan and Anakin’s relationship to get an insight into what Ben said in Star Wars to Luke in conversation. I don’t like how it’s just Obi-Wan is a liar. But now that is my accepted belief with A certain point of view.

I understand he built up the idea of the Jedi as guardians of the peace and great warriors to get a young man like Luke interested. He wasn’t exactly going to say your father was a butcher, who used this very lightsaber to slaughter younglings. Please come with me to Aldaraan, by the way the girl in the image projected by Artoo is your sister.

Darth Vader the right hand of the Emperor and fascist overlord is your father. Murderous psychopath and half robot because I sliced and diced him and he fell into lava.

Your father was not a good pilot, he accidentally destroyed the trade federation ship when he was 9 years old. He was always whining and never followed my lead. The older Anakin got, the more insistent he was on breaking the rules, and we Jedi built him up as the chosen one so he could do no wrong. We denied him love and companionship because it is attachment. took him from the only family and mother he ever knew. and told him not to fall in love with a woman, driving him to betray our order.

JadedSkywalker said:

I would have liked to see more of Obi-Wan and Anakin’s relationship to get an insight into what Ben said in Star Wars to Luke in conversation. I don’t like how it’s just Obi-Wan is a liar. But now that is my accepted belief with A certain point of view.

But is that about the fights? That was more my question, as you referred to an amount I think.

Where does Obi-Wan lie, beyond a couple things? He only really does about Anakin wanting Luke to have the lightsaber and the Vader killed your dad thing really I think that I remember.

I understand he built up the idea of the Jedi as guardians of the peace and great warriors to get a young man like Luke interested. He wasn’t exactly going to say your father was a butcher, who used this very lightsaber to slaughter younglings. Please come with me to Aldaraan, by the way the girl in the image projected by Artoo is your sister.

Darth Vader the right hand of the Emperor and fascist overlord is your father. Murderous psychopath and half robot because I sliced and diced him and he fell into lava.

Your father was not a good pilot, he accidentally destroyed the trade federation ship when he was 9 years old. He was always whining and never followed my lead. The older Anakin got, the more insistent he was on breaking the rules, and we Jedi built him up as the chosen one so he could do no wrong. We denied him love and companionship because it is attachment. took him from the only family and mother he ever knew. and told him not to fall in love with a woman, driving him to betray our order.

Nothing in the PT movies ever develops the idea that Anakin was seen as a bad pilot.

To say he was always whining and never followed his lead I think isn’t what happens in the movies. And why would never following his lead contradict what he said in OT?

No one in the PT denies Anakin love or companionship.

The Jedi as a group, Obi included, didn’t take him from his only family. Shmi wanted him to go and Anakin wanted to as well, and Qui-Gon offered and told him that it would be hard.

They never told him not to fall in love with a woman in the movies.

oojason said:

I’ll take the Sequels as they are simply less boring to watch; the PT is a great engaging story on paper - yet delivered a vapid, dull, unappealing, poor-CGId, borefest… that has so many needless inconsistencies and retcons to the OT (as well as much-changed lore to what had been established in the official released material before). Plus the many soulless unlikeable characters, mind-numbing dialogue, and inane acting performances in the PT (as well as poor writing / dumbing down of characters’ agency and decisions).

What’s more vapid about them than the ST?

I disagree about the CGI. I only think a few scenes are particularly poor.

Whose unlikable, beyond Anakin really, and that’s all I can really think of, even then that’s only in AOTC and when he’s a bad guy in ROTS I think, otherwise. Most people I’ve seen like Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon and generally Padme. Similar to Yoda or Mace. Jar-Jar may be, to me, not particularly likable, but I don’t see what’s unlikable about him particularly.

What’s different in regards to the dumbing down of characters agencies and decisions than the ST?

The ST; I can accept that TFA played it safe whilst trying to give the message that the ST (and maybe new era of SW live-action content?) would be more akin in tone, pacing, and ‘vibe’ to the OT than the PT - leaving the other 2 ST films to take up the slack in bringing something fresh and taking chances / moving forward with the stories. And I enjoyed TLJ for doing just that (for the most part). For me, the pacing, choreography, CGI, and acting here is superior to the PT - and for the most part… the dialogue is too (‘somehow, low bars have returned’). Then TROS dropped the ball and failed to appeal as a film in itself (the story is just a mess), failed as a climax to the ST, and also as the finale of the ‘Skywalker Saga’ as a whole. Yet for all the flaws of the ST… at least I wasn’t bored watching them like I am with the PT.

What’s the value of tone, pacing and vibe when there’s little to no point story or character wise overall?

How is the dialogue actually better overall?

I think TLJ is a remix of TESB with a twist of ROTJ thrown in, and it continues, to me, the regurgitation of the same empire vs rebels type dynamic, so what’s fresh or taking chances or moving forward about TLJ?

oojason said:

Right, I received a PM letting me know you’ve replied to another of my posts…

The same still applies what you were plainly told in the George Lucas’s Sequel Trilogy thread…
 

Quite why you (and the other TFn guy with the similar posting style) then still continued on and on asking questions and attempted to performatively interact with me in the George Lucas’s Sequel Trilogy thread… is lost on me. It still applies here and for any other threads, too.

You may wish to question why others here are ignoring your posts - and rethink your baiting ‘posting style’ and comments. Or not, I guess…?

That’d be a pity if not - as you do make the occasional intriguing and insightful posts on TFn (in amongst the usual circle-jerking on there). Though it is up to you, of course. I won’t be holding my breath, either way.

If you feel I’ve been mistaken or harsh, then feel free to PM me if you wish - though meanwhile I (and likely others) will still simply be ignoring / scrolling past your posts on here.
 

You imply I may be a zealot for doing… defending the PT’s story and replying to criticisms that I think don’t apply to them. And I’ve also criticized some of PT writing as well. I respond to posts I disagree with. Why not do that? What have I said that’s bad or wrong?

What posts on TFn are you referring to?

Circle jerking on that forum? Come on, please.

timmaaaah said:

This is a contraversial take, but even though ROS is bad, I still think it is a more competently made film than Revenge of the Sith on a basic level.

This has got to be 100% contrarianism

oojason said:

Yeah, all valid points mate.

See? I don’t know how I’m expected to respond to comments that I think just aren’t reflecting what happens in the movies, like that one, other than pointing out how I think it doesn’t reflect the movies:

Where does Obi-Wan lie, beyond a couple things? He only really does about Anakin wanting Luke to have the lightsaber and the Vader killed your dad thing really I think that I remember.

Nothing in the PT movies ever develops the idea that Anakin was seen as a bad pilot in those movies, so I don’t see how that’s a lie. If you wanted to see more of that, I can understand that, but I don’t see it as a contradiction.

To say he was always whining I think isn’t what happens in the movies. And why would never following his lead contradict what he said in OT?

No one in the PT denies Anakin love or companionship. Obi is his friend and straight says that he loved him. The Jedi as a whole show companionship to each other and care I think.

The Jedi as a group, Obi included, didn’t take him from his only family. Shmi wanted him to go and Anakin wanted to as well, and Qui-Gon offered and told him that it would be hard. No taking involved, as far as I think how that term used here implies.

They never told him not to fall in love with a woman in the movies. Attachment was something the Jedi were told not to do, not love.

What am I supposed to do if not disagree and point that out? Not reply at all? Why?

Prequel trilogy, easily. I liked Force Awakens enough, especially when it first came out, and if Abrams made the entire ST as a continuation then I would probably like it better. I despise Attack of the Clones and The Last Jedi, and Rise of Skywalker is bad but extremely fun to watch.

Phantom Menace is bizarre and sags in places, but has some excellent setpieces like the podrace and the lightsaber duel. Insanely good sound design. Jar Jar and kid Anakin are irritating, Padme is a non-character, but Obi Wan and Qui Gon are very likeable and I appreciate all their scenes.

Revenge of the Sith is good enough to tip the balance by itself. As silly as a lot of parts are, the story still has some gravitas and artistry to it and there are some cool fight scenes. I think the politicking between Palpatine and the Jedi Council makes for some well done intrigue. It’s the easiest movie to perfect using fan edits because it’s already the strongest.

Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid are fantastic and carry everything almost by themselves. No one gives a comparable performance in any of the sequels, other than Ian himself when he’s Palpatine again. Adam Driver does well but it’s wasted on what they do with his character.

The John Williams score for the prequels is better and contains some all timer tracks that rank with the original trilogy. I don’t blame Williams for the sequel ones - they’re still good, and if anything I think he didn’t put his full effort because he knew it would be wasted on them.

Vladius said:

Prequel trilogy, easily. I liked Force Awakens enough, especially when it first came out, and if Abrams made the entire ST as a continuation then I would probably like it better. I despise Attack of the Clones and The Last Jedi, and Rise of Skywalker is bad but extremely fun to watch.

Phantom Menace is bizarre and sags in places, but has some excellent setpieces like the podrace and the lightsaber duel. Insanely good sound design. Jar Jar and kid Anakin are irritating, Padme is a non-character, but Obi Wan and Qui Gon are very likeable and I appreciate all their scenes.

I also really liked Otoh Gunga the underwater City being like the old Flash Gordon comic. And I liked Mos Espa.

I like the design of the City of Theed looking like Athens. Or Naboo is vaguely Tibetan and roman. You get the sense from the deleted scenes that Padme’s people are a cultured and learned people. But we don’t learn anything about them. We don’t know why Sidious hates the Naboo. Or why there is space taxes and tariffs.

I like the design of the Naboo N1-Starfighter. And I really do like The scene where the door opens and music of Duel of the Fates begins. And Maul makes his appearance. As to the sound design the AC3 laserdisc is the best the film has ever sounded. It does indeed lag. My opinion is the theatrical edit without any of the extended scenes is the best version. Is it perfect no, but Ben Burtt edit is better than Lucas later DVD version, which was followed by the blu-ray version with cgi Yoda. Which is the same version on the 4K UHD.

The scenes with Anakin learning about Padme and meeting her family should have stayed in but they slow down the pace of Attack of the Clones. The scenes where Padme begins the rebellion in Revenge of the Sith should have been reworked or reshot to be better and stayed in the movie. I wanted a bigger Wookie ground battle in Revenge of the Sith. More for Chewie to do if he had to be in the prequels at all. Though maybe not having a Han Solo Tarzan like character in him being orphaned and raised with Chewie is probably the best. Good for Lucas cutting that.

On one hand the idea of Palpatine being revealed to be Anakin’s father I like that idea, and on the other hand it is better to be implied like Lucas did. I think the Opera scenes works even if the mention of midichlorians I find repulsive.
On one hand I love the visual of Vader being born on a table and Padme dying at the same time, except for the fact she was supposed to live until Leia was very young. It creates a problem with ROTJ.

The way Anakin is imprisoned in that suit is very poetic. On one hand the suit keeps him alive and on the other hand it deprives him of his humanity. He is Frankenstein’s monster. He chose to go to the dark side and he is living in hell and torment. He was willing to do all of that if Padme had lived, his choices cost her the one life she had.

All he has left is his rage and hatred. Of Obi-Wan, The Jedi and even the Emperor who holds his leash. In the end Lukes gives him purpose again and for one moment he becomes a Jedi. Lukes’s compassion and mercy should have ended in his death. Throwing away his weapon at the moment. on the second death star. And it instead turns the tide. Luke reaches Anakin within a dying Darth Vader. Who takes the Emperor and throws him into the depths.

JadedSkywalker said:

I also really liked Otoh Gunga the underwater City being like the old Flash Gordon comic. And I liked Mos Espa.

I like the design of the City of Theed looking like Athens. Or Naboo is vaguely Tibetan and roman. You get the sense from the deleted scenes that Padme’s people are a cultured and learned people. But we don’t learn anything about them. We don’t know why Sidious hates the Naboo. Or why there is space taxes and tariffs.

Huh? I’ve never heard that as an issue before. What gives you the impression Palpatine hates Naboo? What does anything he does to it have to do with personal hatred? It’s his home planet seemingly (I base this off of him being senator I think for it) and what he orcheastrates to have done to it I think is useful in getting himself elected. He shows no other use or issue with it beyond that, that I remember

Why wouldn’t there be taxes?

I think the Opera scenes works even if the mention of midichlorians I find repulsive.

Why?

On one hand I love the visual of Vader being born on a table and Padme dying at the same time, except for the fact she was supposed to live until Leia was very young. It creates a problem with ROTJ.

Leia is very young when Padme dies. lol.

The design work in the PT is top notch. Lucas in charge made for awful scripts and direction, but he hired the best of the best for the other departments. Phantom Menace mostly looks fantastic still, all these years later. Just imagine if it also had a compelling story and characters, and a sense of charm and pace.