George Lucas should get more credit for "saving Anakin Skywalker" in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. — Page 3

I struggle myself with this one, because of my love for archival material. I know the community has basically done all the work just not the official approval on the theatrical releases, and the library of Congress got the one from the copyright loophole. I also understand the need for a final vision, however the vision is non-existent at this point. I’m not saying that because I hate the sequals or anything but logically George had little input in some of the projects and other projects built on those projects, so it’s very outside the realm of vision he had in the beginning. (Also I like the clone wars more than the originals (it’s just what I was grown with)). I would largely say if it meant me dying or George Lucas from dying I’d die. He is a treasured storyteller for Gods sake. Also Dave is mostly doing a good job. It’s all art so in the end George Lucas is the only person you should thank if you love star wars.

I can only speak for me personally, but what significantly redeemed Anakin for me (Hayden’s depiction precisely) was his portrayal in the Ahsoka show. That’s exactly how I’ve wanted to see Anakin ever since I could imagine him from the original trilogy. As a general and a leader, not a nagging, temper tantrum throwing little brat. I haven’t watched the clone wars cartoon in a long time because it’s very offputting to me. It feels too kiddy and the blocky character designs just make me wanna pull my hair out. Now the Star Wars republic comics aka Clone Wars collected volumes by dark horse are amazing and the only clone wars I actually care about.

no tcw is not lucas canon most of the retcons is from filoni alone even if you say the eu was never canon and it also contraticts the films but grievous fighting grievous many times is not a contratiction and neither anakin fighting dooku i mean maybe anakin fighting dooku the many times that happened is a contratiction but it would not be a contratiction if it didn´t happened many times and obi-wan and anakin fighting him at the same time is a contratiction to and when grievous said i have been trained in your jedi arts by count dooku he meant that dooku never train him in the jedi arts only taugh him how to swing a lightsaber like ventress told grievous it doesn´t mean that they never meet before

originally it was meant to be lucas canon but ended up not being lucas canon

i do like tcw but its not lucas canon it contraticts not only the eu but also the movies filoni is a prequel hater that is why he contraticted the movies but the show is still good but its overeated and the prequels are superior

tcw anakin is inconsistent with movie anakin

the micro series is superior

no lucas has nothing to do with anakin character on tcw why george would aprove making anakin inconsistent?

What I don’t get is Luke had character development in the OT and why was it so difficult for Lucas to do the same for Anakin and also connect it to the original, like the speech Obi-Wan gave about Luke’s father in Star Wars.

You had Anakin as kind and generous in Episode I. But once you see him in episode II he is already a sullen asshole. Completely unlikable, and he never obeys his masters. I suppose that is supposed to make him look like a maverick, like the fact he openly marries a woman in secret against his Jedi wows. so, Lucas can do the dumb forbidden romance thing.

I don’t like the Padme pushed Anakin to the dark side because of love. So, if he died a celibate monk like Rian’s version of Luke Skywalker he never would have been Darth Vader? Go to a monastery and meditate Anakin. Or play politics in the Jedi council, don’t love a flesh and blood woman.

I honestly hate the chosen one thing because it makes him fated to be Vader, he had no choice he started as a slave, he ended as a slave. He could have chosen to not be evil.

Giving him a leadership role in Clone Wars and making him a Jedi master without the rank does expand the character. But it does not fit the prequel, but nor does Darth Maul surviving. And Ahsoka does not even appear in the movies, as in she never existed.

I also don’t like how the Jedi get younglings separate them from their parent’s and allow no familiar bond. They allow no attachments, this is very unnatural and why Anakin is so messed up, he grew up without a mother and father. He was surrounded by a monastic order and giving mantras. And taught how to use a laser sword. But not how to master his fear, not how to relate to other human beings. His entire life is stunted he never grows. He merely has power levels like he is Goku or something. They are training him for what? Until the Sith were revealed, the Jedi didn’t have a standing army and no formal conflict with other force users. What did they need martial skills for. training him to be a deadly assassin and hoping he doesn’t turn his blade on them, or become a Ronin or a Sith.

Anakin probably should not have been trained if he lacked basic empathy, or he lacked emotional maturity. Never mind being a soldier of the Republic like Palpatine’s sword. Give a young man power, teach him to kill and fight in a war. Act surprised when he turns rogue. All the while you’ve been distrusting of him and afraid of his growing power. And you keep telling him he is the chosen one. You make sure the rules don’t apply to him, and he is too big to fail.

The star pupil of Kenobi. The hubris of Kenobi is absolutely legend. I thought I could instruct him just as well as Yoda, my pride had devastating consequences for the Galaxy. Obi-Wan in the Return of the Jedi novelization.

When Yoda tells Anakin not to mourn or miss Padme that was straight up BS. No wonder he was easy putty in Sidious hands. He should just have left the order behind and all their false platitudes. Why didn’t he leave with Padme to raise his children in peace. Let the Jedi rot. There is no need to save the Galaxy from the Sith if Anakin never shifted the balance in their favor. No need to be a chosen one. The Empire couldn’t have come into being without Vader helping it. Or the Jedi being insipid and wrong. With all their discussions and endless politics. They have a complete inability to act, and when they finally did they were maneuvered by Palpatine like pawns in a game of chess.

JadedSkywalker said:

What I don’t get is Luke had character development in the OT and why was it so difficult for Lucas to do the same for Anakin and also connect it to the original, like the speech Obi-Wan gave about Luke’s father in Star Wars.

You had Anakin as kind and generous in Episode I. But once you see him in episode II he is already a sullen asshole. Completely unlikable, and he never obeys his masters. I suppose that is supposed to make him look like a maverick, like the fact he openly marries a woman in secret against his Jedi wows. so, Lucas can do the dumb forbidden romance thing.

I don’t like the Padme pushed Anakin to the dark side because of love. So, if he died a celibate monk like Rian’s version of Luke Skywalker he never would have been Darth Vader? Go to a monastery and meditate Anakin. Or play politics in the Jedi council, don’t love a flesh and blood woman.

I honestly hate the chosen one thing because it makes him fated to be Vader, he had no choice he started as a slave, he ended as a slave. He could have chosen to not be evil.

Giving him a leadership role in Clone Wars and making him a Jedi master without the rank does expand the character. But it does not fit the prequel, but nor does Darth Maul surviving. And Ahsoka does not even appear in the movies, as in she never existed.

I also don’t like how the Jedi get younglings separate them from their parent’s and allow no familiar bond. They allow no attachments, this is very unnatural and why Anakin is so messed up, he grew up without a mother and father. He was surrounded by a monastic order and giving mantras. And taught how to use a laser sword. But not how to master his fear, not how to relate to other human beings. His entire life is stunted he never grows. He merely has power levels like he is Goku or something. They are training him for what? Until the Sith were revealed, the Jedi didn’t have a standing army and no formal conflict with other force users. What did they need martial skills for. training him to be a deadly assassin and hoping he doesn’t turn his blade on them, or become a Ronin or a Sith.

Anakin probably should not have been trained if he lacked basic empathy, or he lacked emotional maturity. Never mind being a soldier of the Republic like Palpatine’s sword. Give a young man power, teach him to kill and fight in a war. Act surprised when he turns rogue. All the while you’ve been distrusting of him and afraid of his growing power. And you keep telling him he is the chosen one. You make sure the rules don’t apply to him, and he is too big to fail.

The star pupil of Kenobi. The hubris of Kenobi is absolutely legend. I thought I could instruct him just as well as Yoda, my pride had devastating consequences for the Galaxy. Obi-Wan in the Return of the Jedi novelization.

When Yoda tells Anakin not to mourn or miss Padme that was straight up BS. No wonder he was easy putty in Sidious hands. He should just have left the order behind and all their false platitudes. Why didn’t he leave with Padme to raise his children in peace. Let the Jedi rot. There is no need to save the Galaxy from the Sith if Anakin never shifted the balance in their favor. No need to be a chosen one. The Empire couldn’t have come into being without Vader helping it. Or the Jedi being insipid and wrong. With all their discussions and endless politics. They have a complete inability to act, and when they finally did they were maneuvered by Palpatine like pawns in a game of chess.

I’m not a prequel lover by any means but a lot of this isn’t quite accurate. In addition to a dumb forbidden love thing, the Padme issue is supposed to be about the dangers of fear and jealousy. It’s not really bad that Anakin fell in love or got married, it’s that he let his passion cloud his judgment, so he got carried away and manipulated. Like you said he really could have left at any time, but he was also ambitious and power hungry. His desire to save people from death overlapped with “I’m going to be the most powerful Jedi ever” and getting offended that he wasn’t a trusted master. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

The Jedi do train people to master their fear, that’s part of the point. They can relate to others and generally don’t turn out messed up. Obi Wan has friends and likes to drink. Anakin was just written/directed as a weirdo.

The Jedi obviously have martial training because they’re constantly going on dangerous missions. That’s the point of the lightsaber, you can use it to block blaster bolts. In a world of guns it’s a defensive weapon. Fighting other people with lightsabers is secondary if they aren’t around.

Going by what is actually portrayed on screen, the Jedi were pretty much right about everything and it was Anakin’s own fault for not following the rules. Their main flaw is that they were written as really stupid and missed obvious information in the Attack of the Clones conspiracy plot.

NFBisms said:

I don’t think I ever articulated it better than I did in this conversation with Channel72 (including the next few replies)

It doesn’t excuse any of the bad stuff but I do think people tend to project a lack of agency onto his arc. So many of us have been working backwards from the grandfathered critiques of the prequels’ stupid plot, and not really engaging with where it is at least trying to interplay with the themes of the OT. (I also think this understanding is entirely consistent to The Clone Wars Anakin!)

A lot of this stuff “works” better in conversation with the OT, exactly as movies made decades after. Of course they fail to complete the fabled saga where Star Wars (1977) is a fourth installment, but as idiosyncratic Lucas joints commenting on them, they are fascinating to dissect. Don’t let anyone try to squash that curiosity!

I agree with most of this, but I still think Palpatine did some manipulation. He led Anakin to believe that he was going to be a super special council member with the Jedi, knowing that would cause more friction. He used a lot of flattery to get Anakin on his side and gas him up. It’s possible that he had something to do with Anakin’s nightmares, but either way he exploited them by dropping the Plagueis story and telling Anakin he could save Padme, knowing that it was a bait and switch and that he didn’t actually know how to do what Plagueis did. Whoops, I know you just helped me kill Mace Windu, but no refunds.

NFBisms said:

Sure, but we should also note that Palpatine never outright says he knows how to do what Plagueis did. Even when the mask initially drops, the verbiage is about “having a complete view of the Force” and “using his knowledge,” which is consistent to how he continues to discuss the topic post-Mace Murder, where he emphasizes discovery. It’s an academic seduction almost; forbidden research that Anakin won’t get from Jedi teachings.

The Force is still a great mystery, but maybe a practitioner as “powerful” as Anakin could unlock it if only he had access to all of that knowledge~. That is the function of his being gassed up, playing off of the allure of knowing more about the Force than the Jedi would tell you. It’s not meant to be a direct transaction, tit for tat heel turn.

I think Anakin still has more agency in that than just being duped.

While he’s getting reverse electrocuted by Mace he does actually say “I have the power to save the one you love.”

You’re right that Anakin does have more agency than people give him credit for.

“What have I done?!” says Anakin, after realising he was tricked.

He’s saying that because he didn’t think he was capable of killing Mace Windu and is shocked at his actions, not because he believes he’s been tricked.